Unthinkable - Hamas uses boys school for defense while bombing Israel soldiers.

[Manwich]

there is a reason we the US of A support isreal. we are acting as God's hand to keep at bay those who would dare to hurt his chosen people. i'm just afraid the government is about to jump over to the towelhead's side now that barack oSama is elected (i still don't want to call him the President).

[ShadowTiger]

I used to think that too, because the people he was intending on hiring as staff were based on a very anti-Israel opinion base. However, they'll always need Israel there as a friendly landing strip, as Israel seems to keep the most sanity and sense around themselves, at least diplomatically. You're safer in Israel than in all of the neighboring regions, even in the worst of times.

[firebug]

I'm still having a lot of trouble seeing the non-Israeli Middle Eastern people as being capable of peace. At least concerning the events surrounding the people who are the extremists, anyway. I know there are civilians involved, yes, and they're "innocent," but really, how innocent can people be if they're taught from an early age to hate other nations? How is that so easily forgettable?

Young Jews in Israel are taught the same hatred values. Check out some of the videos on YouTube of Arab families living within Israel. It's quite frightening.

Even after everything else said here, I still can't believe someone said Israel's creation was a mistake. Okay, you know I'm a generally nice person, and would stop at nothing to make people smile, but wow, you just punched me in the Matzo-balls, yo.

No offense to you, (you're one of the nicest people on these boards, and I totally respect you) but I agree that the creation of Israel as a Jewish state was a mistake. The repercussions of that act have been horrendous.

The people who lived there had no choice about the matter. All of a sudden, there was a large UN-sanctioned immigration of Jewish people from Europe into their home and they couldn't do anything about it. In fact, the only reason that it was legal was because Britain owned the area (Palestine), as a part of their dying empire. So instead of giving the land back to the people who lived there when they stole it, they sent a bunch of Europeans to colonize it completely. Muslims really had no choice but to leave. First off, there simply wasn't enough land for them all. The Arabs who lived there were farmers. If you've ever been to a farm, you'll see how much land you need for just one farm. Israel was not to be a 'farming' nation. Right from the start they were given access to resources that the Arabs in that area never were. The choice given to them to become Israeli citizens is a joke. If you are not Jewish in Israel, your citizenship means nothing. In fact, it is illegal to even speak about your religion openly if you are not Jewish (something about trying to convert Jews).

BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY

It makes sense and it's not slanted. Jew and non-Jew -- it doesn't matter.

In fact, it is very slanted.

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 BCE, Two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

This is simply not true. Many Jews, led by Moses, entered the land after their exodus from Egypt, and proclaimed the land as their own, irregardless of who was already living there.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades AFTER the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

I'm not sure where this guy got his information, but anyone who knows their history is aware that before Israel was a state of it's own, that land was a part of the British Mandate of Palestine (a British Protectorate).

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 CE lasted no more than 22 years.

There's some more false history. The Ottoman Empire owned the area from 1299–1923, right before WW1.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

What? Is this guy for real? The entire Koran is riddled with Old-Testament Books. Shit, even the Torah is in there, which are Moses' books. Is there really nothing about Jerusalem in any of Moses' books?

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

Again with the gross misrepresentations. Muslims pray facing Mecca. The direction they pray has absolutely nothing to do with Jerusalem (turning their backs to it or otherwise), and depending on where you are in the world, you may also be praying towards Jerusalem.

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

I don't know about this, but if people came to me and said: 'We're about to kill a bunch of your neighbors, and you have the chance to get the fuck out right now,' I'd probably leave too (although I'd pass the info on to my neighbors so they too could get the fuck out before they were killed).

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

So what? Israel was created because of the European persecution of Jews during WW2. So for every Arab that left Israel, there was a Jew from Arab lands to take his place. Well what about the boatloads of European Jewish immigrants into Israel?

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

If this is true, it is extremely unfortunate and gives those people even more reason to be angry. the bit about Jewish refugees being absorbed into Israel is ridiculous. Israel wasn't even a nation until those refugees showed up, and it was to be a Jewish nation anyways.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.

Yes, their charter calls for the destruction of Israel. They're some pretty pissed off douche bags.
The West Bank wasn't even a part of Israel until they took it from Jordan. Jordan annexed it from The British Mandate of Palestine.
Britain stole it from the Ottoman Empire. So yes, they gave it back to the people who rightfully owned it (the Arabs who lived there). But their supplies don't come from Israel alone. They come from Egypt, Jordan, and Israel. Except Israel has them basically land-locked and allows them supplies only when they're being 'good' (so to punish the individual terrorists, they deny a whole nation of people food, fuel and other necessary supplies).

16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

I'm not sure how this helps his point, basic math tells us 97+97=194, which is more than 175. So... Israel was wrong more than half of the time according to the UN?

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

Well, since the General Assembly is a part of the UN, These numbers once again do not help his point.

18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

Ahhhh, I see now. This guy wants us to think the UN is a part of some anti-Israeli Conspiracy. I don't know about that. I think the UN judges Israel on their Human Rights Violations as much as they would any First-World nation. Not that Human Rights Violations aren't just as bad in Third-World countries.
And about Jordan, They weren't even a part of the UN until 2007. I don't think the UN is allowed to really do anything in countries that aren't a part of the organization.

A few of this guy's points were valid, but the vast majority of them are either outright lies or extremely slanted Anti-Arab sentiments. This is not surprising coming from an Israeli. There is a large amount of Arab-based racism on the part of Israelis these days. You can't really blame them, but you'd think the Jews in particular would understand the dangers of racism, and passing it on to your children.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro-ANYONE in this involvement, but I really think that people really need to look at both sides of the situation without bias. I mean, what is really going on in this war?

If you look at it from a completely outside position, What you'll see is a Third-World country (The Palestinian Authority) with individual crazies within, attacking a First-World country (Israel) and doing little actual harm in the process. The First-World country then firebombs, uses chemical warfare, and refuses supplies to the entire Third-World country. In turn, the crazies within that country get even angrier, and continue to attack the First-World country with little effect, but even more damage to themselves.

This is fucked up. No matter what arguments you use on either side. My personal belief is that HAMAS should be exterminated because of the racism they stand for. But I do not condone any of Israel's actions. I refer to my original analogy:

Israel is acting like a big brother kicking the shit out of his annoying little brother who just wont stop fucking with him.