GRIKARUGUN *Insert coin(s) to continue*

[Gleeok]

I know it's just another minor step, but somehow taking the game engine's automatic Link functions out of the equation seems like the final lynchpin between using ZeldaClassic and basically just programming your own game. Not much is left of the ZeldaClassic API after that except drawing functions on the screen and easy graphics processing, ya know?

And with what you've learned here, you could probably go out and make a C++ version of your game from scratch. Just need to learn a little bit about Windows programming and you're set.

Well I've actually thought of that, but become adept at bending ZC and Zscript how you want and programming a game from scratch are two completely different things. I just simply don't know enough about programming to conceivably finish this as such a thing. Granted, having the ability to use and recycle objects rather than ffcs would be much less constraining, but look at all the awesome projects people have started on the web only to see an 'abandoned' or 'cancelled' tag next to it. Tons of them. I couldn't really hope to learn a new language and make a game out of it by myself with my spare time like I could with zc.

I've also decided against that, and am just making Link translucent. That way I can get the ship to 'roll' and whatnot.


You know, I could ask you the same thing. You're putting together an entire side-scroller and shmuper with a zelda clone, yes?

[bigjoe]

I,for one, think that using ZC to create projects outside of it's top-down adventure intent is awesome.

For one, you can draw from a community of Zelda Players, and for two, you can show people outside of the community what you're with doing your project, and attract them to the project, if not Zelda Classic in general.

As for the quest, it's really cool and shows off just how far we've come from the days when you couldn't even have animated combos.

[Petoe]

The challange for you devs is going to be keeping ZClassic accessible.

And bugfree? What happened to bugfree and stable? ZC is accessible and simple enough, but why the fuck no one cares about stability and bugfreenes anymore? No matter how many cool new features there are, ZC is pure shit as long as there isn't a full and stable release. Why the hell I'm the only ZC user (or ex user in this case) who cares about stability? Sigh.

Forgive me if I crossed a line with my comments.

EDIT - Now I'm not saying that eg scripting is bad, you could potentially make really great games with the good old overhead adventure stuff and have some space fights or cool sidescrolling parts in the game too, but it is just so infuriating that there's no stable ZC in sight and no one else seems to be worried about it. People are like this "woah, new cool feature! Who cares about bugs, this feature is a must have!!!"

[_L_]

Hey, I care about stability too!

[C-Dawg]

What are you talking about, Petoe? We're not talking about new features. We're talking about scripting. We make our own new features nowadays. The devs can focus entirely on stability. We quest-makers will take care of the feature creep.

[bigjoe]

And bugfree? What happened to bugfree and stable? ZC is accessible and simple enough, but why the fuck no one cares about stability and bugfreenes anymore? No matter how many cool new features there are, ZC is pure shit as long as there isn't a full and stable release. Why the hell I'm the only ZC user (or ex user in this case) who cares about stability? Sigh.

Forgive me if I crossed a line with my comments.

Go to shardstorm.com and check out the feature listings. You will notice a significant rise in bug fixes and a significant decline in feature additions. Now, there was at one point an agreement to make a feature freeze. There were a couple additions since then, but only ones that were considered necessary enough to be added in before the next public release. That way, once that release is made, they'll be in already, and we won't have to wait the usual 3-4 years pulling our hair out. While I was in support of the feature freeze, I'd say the decisions on which things got past it were wise. As well, very few (if any) bugs seemed to be produced as a DIRECT RESULT of those additions.

A lot of those additions do not affect the gameplay whatsoever.

Cases in point:

Integrity Checks/Quest Reports - They do nothing to the game whatsoever, and are used to pinpoint design flaws in quests.

Renaming of Stuff - Used to better convey the effect of rules/combos/etc. Again, no effect to gameplay whatsoever.

General Tidyfying - Not necessarily bug fixes, but effect the game in a positive way and do not produce bugs.
Example :

* Surprise! Link's sprite decorations are now drawn on Link when he scrolls between screens.

This means that if Link is on shallow water and walks to another screen, the water covers him for the duration of the scroll. If you were a quest developer for 2.5 and this issue wasn't addressed, wouldn't it kind of gnaw at you?

If anything, judging by the trends, it seems more and more like they are preparing for a release. So uh, have a bit more optimism.

What are you talking about, Petoe? We're not talking about new features. We're talking about scripting. We make our own new features nowadays. The devs can focus entirely on stability. We quest-makers will take care of the feature creep.

QFT.

It used to be Developers -> End User. The developers had to do all the work in creating productivity for the quest makers.

Now its more like Developers -> Scripters -> End User.

Developers add the core features and fix engine bugs. Scripters script the fancy wangimazzangs. The end user sits back and makes his quests from the many available resources.

Any script-related feature that makes it past the feature freeze is fine by me. That way the developers will have no more part in the designing of new items/enemies/etc, and therefore can turn their guns directly towards engine bugs and obliterate them.

With all of this out of the way and taken care of, 2.5 will be the magnum opus of all the developers work, rather than a shoddy "almost" like previous releases. And we definitely won't be bored waiting for 2.6, because we'll have an infinitude of things to do with 2.5.

Egh, forgive me for hijacking the thread, but I had to give Petoe some perspective on the issue.

[Petoe]

Sorry that I kind of took this thread off topic, but bigjoe, no matter what you say it doesn't make me feel any better. We've been waiting for "ZC 2.5" about 2 years and a stable ZC version for abour 4 years and there's still no sign of one. It is true that the developers do not own anything to the community and it has never been easy to be one because some people want features and others want stability. But still, so many mistakes have been made it's not even funny, why doesn't anyone take a look at the quote in my sig and think about how much sense it makes? I guess it makes too much sense. *shrugs*
Here:

GET a stable version, THEN add more with the builds, DON'T just keep adding bloat to something that doesn't work already.

Sorry that I'm such a whiny little bitch, but it just feels like I've wasted the last 6 years of my life on ZC. I've worked so hard for my quests and dreaming that they and ZC too will do well and be succesful some day, but instead people are losing interest and ZC is slowly dying. Oh well, maybe I'm just the only one who holds ZC dear and who wants to see ZC succeed. It really feels that way.

Even though I have lost all hope of there ever being a stable ZC ever again, I find it too hard to just give up on the program and walk away. I'd love to help some way, but scripting is out of my league and ZC testing is arranged so poorly that if I were to start testing again, I would have no idea where to start and what to look for. The devs just keep adding and changing things and they never clearly tell about these changes and they rarely care to explain this new stuff which makes it hard and frustrating to test ZC.

Now I promise I'll stop ruining this thread, the game looks awesome, Gleeok.

[C-Dawg]

I've worked so hard for my quests and dreaming that they and ZC too will do well and be succesful some day, but instead people are losing interest and ZC is slowly dying. Oh well, maybe I'm just the only one who holds ZC dear and who wants to see ZC succeed. It really feels that way.

Seriously, what? You've been hanging around PureZC too much. ZC isn't "dying" or anything of the sort. Development on both the designer and programmer side is more brisk than I can remember.

[jman2050]

The current betas are pretty stable based on my usage and the bug reports given. Stable enough for release honestly, once some of those nagging loose ends are taken cared of (some of them a bit more difficult than you think to fix). Unfortunately, there may be a bugs and issues that simply COULD NOT be fixed without rewriting the whole thing, mostly because it's becoming clear that using Allegro and 8-bit color for this was a bad idea. Oh, and keep in mind that even if ZC itself is ready for release, we still need to get it prepared, updating all the documentation and crap. The only real major addition I still want is migrating the ZQ GUI to use large mode exclusively, but there might be too many problems with that. We'll see.

Anyway, too much drama, not enough discussion about this awesome quest.

[Gleeok]

I made a star wars crawl about it. ..Unfortunately they don't tell you that it has to be under 650 characters, so I had to delete about two-thousand of them and now it's nowhere near as funny. ..Bastards.


Anyway, Petoe; There is exactly one zc bug in this quest currently. The rest are my fault. XD And no one else is even seeing it. (Random crashing on screen start..after the enemies are loaded though...might be Screen->Wavy..I dunno) Check out the next demo though Petoe, seriously c'mon. Back when in 2.10 time I'd mess around with zc, I'd always try and make whacked out bosses. Massively buggy and not really fun to even fight boss battles. It was like watching the screen have a seizure with poorly drawn combos making babies in there somewhere. Not only that but I'd make levels (rooms with floor and some blocks and water, thats pretty much it) as big as overworlds, with more enemies than anything you have ever seen...Nobody could even beat level 1... XD Well anyway, I remember playing MMDWR and thinking 'wow, those are much better. Ahahaaa... I may be late to the party, but nobody loves intense boss battles more than I do. Well now it's come full circle. Now maybe you can play this and get inspired in the same way, and maybe think to yourself "How the hell do you do that?!" in the same way other people have, myself included. ..Actually wait a couple of days though, I'm almost done with it.

And that reminds me! ...Two new bosses. A new crystal bonus boss, (accessible directly after the final boss of lv1...Yes _L_, I know, that wouldn't make it the "final" boss then, would it. ) And a miniboss right before the boss....Did I mention I like bosses? Most advanced ones yet. Screenshots don't really work with this game too well though. <_< Best described through the words; "Pulsating, and Hypnotic"


Also, yeah I do agree that it is getting much more stable, I'm not really sure it's good enough for an immediate release though...


EDIT: Well, the ship's graphics are now displayed via ffc, (...I still might go Drawtiles here...we'll see..) and as such I'm going to add in the ability to select from one of multiple ships, each with a unique weapons system. So does anyone have any suggestions for ship design, laser pattern, attacks, movement??