Religion, or the lack thereof

[phattonez]

I'm not asking anyone to believe in me or anything else. I'm saying they shouldn't believe in anything for which there is no evidence.

As magic believers, you are the ones who think you know the answers to these questions. I am pointing out that these answers are not known.

I am sorry you are all so intellectually small that you must believe in magical invisible friends to feel good about yourselves, but don't accuse me of the intellectual sins you yourselves are commiting.

I am completely correct on this issue because I am arguing that you cannot prove your position scientifically. Unless you can prove your assertion of a god scientifically, you must accept that you are wrong and that I am absolutely correct.

Also, you should all read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. The books that support my position are written by renowned physicists. The books that support your position are written by ancient tribal nomads who believed the sun was controlled by magic, the earth was flat, and that the universe was a dome.

Bel is correct because everyone else is incorrect. That makes sense logically, right?

[Aegix Drakan]

Unless you can prove your assertion of a god scientifically, you must accept that you are wrong and that I am absolutely correct.

uhh... ?_? And how does that make any logical sense?

Science can't DISPROVE God's existence any more than it CAN. Therefore, you are not absolutely correct.

Honestly Beldaran, you're beginning to sound like the very same closed-minded zealots you so despise...

[ctrl-alt-delete]

Beldaran, unless you can prove your assertion of no god religiously, you must accept that you are wrong and that I am absolutely correct.

:)

Gotta love twisted logic.

[Pineconn]

Don't doubt Beldaran, for He is never wrong. As a matter of fact, I'm going to start worshiping him... but he has to do something for me, like part the Red Sea for me (or was that Moses? :p).

***

Y'know, when I was in a hotel in Orlando a few weekends ago for Disney, we had Bibles in our rooms. I checked it out, and I was seriously thinking, "Why couldn't some guy have just written this a thousand years ago as a work of fiction?"

For all we know, if we would have found some Dr. Seuss book before the Bible, we could be worshiping Ziggalydots and Diggalyzots.

[Dechipher]

I'm not asking anyone to believe in me or anything else. I'm saying they shouldn't believe in anything for which there is no evidence.

As magic believers, you are the ones who think you know the answers to these questions. I am pointing out that these answers are not known.

I am sorry you are all so intellectually small that you must believe in magical invisible friends to feel good about yourselves, but don't accuse me of the intellectual sins you yourselves are commiting.

I am completely correct on this issue because I am arguing that you cannot prove your position scientifically. Unless you can prove your assertion of a god scientifically, you must accept that you are wrong and that I am absolutely correct.

Also, you should all read "The Demon Haunted World" by Carl Sagan. The books that support my position are written by renowned physicists. The books that support your position are written by ancient tribal nomads who believed the sun was controlled by magic, the earth was flat, and that the universe was a dome.

Unfortunately any points that you may have on this issue are undermined by your haughty demeanor and negative dialect.

Foo.

[The_Amaster]

I don't really believe in this (but I don't not believe) but it kinda ties into Pineconn's post, my ever so favorite TV sitcom "Red Dwarf" featured a short gag whereupon "experts have found what could be a new and radical page to the bible, allegedly to be inserted before the first page. It says, translated 'All peoples and events contained in the following work are entirely fictitious. Any resemblance to other peoples or works, real or imagined is completely coincidental' Naturaly the church has denounced the page as an utter hoax and disgrace"

[Jigglysaint]

This is a bit off topic(and colour maybe), but it's the best place to post this.

What do you get if you cross a drug addict with a Christian?

A Crystal Methodist!

Sorry, that was horrible. You may now resume your intellectual conversation.

[AlexMax]

So what, instead of God I'm supposed to believe in Beldaran? Great! I'm probably gonna become an atheist now. You've killed religion for me. I hope you're proud, you heathenistic bastard.

You don't need Belderan to come to those conclusions. I went through a very similar questioning of my faith when I was about 15. Unfortuniatly, I made the mistake of raising my objections with my Youth Pastor, who then went ouf his way to distort my worldview and line of thinking, and for a time period after that I considered myself a religious person. Once I got to college, however, I was out of my church's youth program and began to see how I had been taken advantage of, and now I carry a bitter resentment of all things religious. Your divorce from religion doesn't have to be on such bad terms, but it's not as uncommon a decision as you might think.

Unfortunately any points that you may have on this issue are undermined by your haughty demeanor and negative dialect.

Foo.

Bel is the only person who is allowed to know anything. He is correct in everything, we are worthless scum.

He may be abrasive in what he says, and I personally don't really like how he states himself as absolutely correct, but he also makes many good points. As the saying goes, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Where I think Bel makes his mistake is trying to absolutely assert his correctness. It's an easily attackable opening, as we've seen in this thread. I sidestep that problem by bringing forth Russell's teapot. I'd write on it, but I'll just paste the two quotes from the wiki article, as I think they speak for themselves. It's a nice way of demonstratining argument from ignorance without going so far as to claim being absolutely correct.

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

Richard Dawkins, in his book The God Delusion, writes further

The reason organized religion merits outright hostility is that, unlike belief in Russell's teapot, religion is powerful, influential, tax-exempt and systematically passed on to children too young to defend themselves. Children are not compelled to spend their formative years memorizing loony books about teapots. Government-subsidized schools don't exclude children whose parents prefer the wrong shape of teapot. Teapot-believers don't stone teapot-unbelievers, teapot-apostates, teapot-heretics and teapot-blasphemers to death. Mothers don't warn their sons off marrying teapot-shiksas whose parents believe in three teapots rather than one. People who put the milk in first don't kneecap those who put the tea in first.

[Darth Marsden]

Y'know what? I'm gonna tell you a little story I heard somewhere. And just to make it even more interesting, I'm gonna use people from here to illustrate certain characters. Are we all sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.

Oncer upon a time, there was an entire race of people who fervently believed that God was standing right behind them, guiding them through life. No-one else could see this God except the person he was standing behind, but there was a snag. At the very heart of their religion, people believed that if they turned around and looked at this God, they would be denied entry into heaven and the eternal paradise that would come with it.

And so the people went for all of their days, believing that God was watching over their shoulder but being totally afraid to check. Until one day, when Beldaran, in one of his many arguments against the race's religion, could stand it no longer, and looked over his shoulder.

And found no-one.

Convinced that this proved his point, he began spreading the word - there was no God over your shoulder, there was no eternal afterlife. And, slowly but surely, people started to see if it was true. They started looking over their shoulders, and found that God wasn't there. Until eventually there was only one man left who believed that God truly was there. And, unable to face the sheer pressure of those who believed otherwise, he took his own life.

When he woke up, he found that he was in Heaven.

Now boys and girls, what have we learned?

[AtmaWeapon]

Now boys and girls, what have we learned?

Suicide is divinely rewarded?

*edit*AlexMax I just saw your post, and it made me think of something I can maybe illustrate my point with.

There are some athiests, like you, that though I stand in disagreement with on the point of God's existence I can recognize your arguments are based on solid philosophical ground. You seem to have chosen atheism as the result of your life experiences, and though my religion tells me you are wrong my heart and mind tell me you've made the choice that seemed most rational to you at the time. You only really poke your head into religion threads when it seems like things are getting kind of crazy and it's always something intelligent you have to add.

There are others, like Beldaran, who seem to have chosen atheism because it gives them a chance to feel superior to others. So far the only supporting points he has provided rely on either "common knowledge" (that sometimes turns out to be wrong!), "books I read one time", or "you just aren't intelligent enough to understand". Some religions provide a sense of superiority, but I believe no other but atheism can allow and even support one's sense of self-worth so far that one feels like people should be honored that one even deigned to stroke one's e-cock in front of them.

What's fairly interesting to me is that religions display these characteristics too, and so far I believe no one has responded in negation to my belief that athiesm can display all of the negative characteristics of an organized religion and when it does it is every bit as evil as historical atrocities committed in the name of a religion. So far by the time I've attempted to support this point, Beldaran has advanced past his first post and only replies with "I'm right, you're wrong. Deal with it."

What's sad is I think the first kind of atheist can be the source of really stimulating philosophical discussion, while the second is too busy patting himself on the back to ponder life's mysteries.