ATT CHG : Combo Type vs. Flag

[C-Dawg]

FFC changers used to be combo types... now they are flags. I understand the logic of making them flags, but I preferred them as combo types.

The advantage of making ATT CHG a combo type instead of an FFC flag is that you can set your chosen combo, once, to be an ATT CHG FFC. Then, when you set it up in a quest, you don't have to go to the flag tab and click anything; you just set the location of the FFC, and the new movement for FFCs that pass over it.

As it stands, setting up complicated trap or boss paths now requires an extra three clicks per ATT CHG FFC (click tab, click radio box, click tab). This sounds like not so much, but it adds up over time, and we've already shown its unnecessary.

And, of course, those of us that were tinkering with ATT CHG FFCs before the change was made now have FFCs that don't work AT ALL. Instead, I have ATT CHG FFCs floating around the screen.

[Freedom]

Jman told me in a PM that the combos would be put back in.
I've left all of mine just set in my quest, waiting for the next beta, it would take days and days to try and fix them all.

[C-Dawg]

Yep. Nice to see that such a prolific quest maker is taking advantage of the new features, by the way.

[Freedom]

well....
I'm trying, but more often then not I just find myself dazed and confused when I open ZQuest now.
Makes me want to drag out the old Zeppelin CD's and just veg out.

[_L_]

Counterargument!

Making Att.Chg a Combo Type is a case of incorrect scope: combo types should always have an effect on the mobility of the sprites. Att.Chg serves no purpose when placed as a combo. Its only effect is when it's assigned to an FFC. In effect, it's functionally identical to applying a flag for that FFC.

Something I value highly is making ZQuest as intuitive as possible. For example, I've just implemented something that replaces all of those "level 0" special cases for DMaps (such as guys, caves, whistle whirlwinds etc.) with DMap flags which allow you to set each of those in turn. (Backwards compatable, by the way.) And a combo type doing the work of a flag is just not sensible.

And, to convince those people who are now twice shy about the Changer flag, I vow to do the following in either the next beta or the next:
* Make Changer flag backwards compatable with FFCs made in betas <16.
* Fix that one bug with Changers.

In closing: Vote L.

[Freedom]

That's all fine and good.... BUT
From my side I've seen my freeform combos trashed twice now in these betas is my Robinhood quest that I've been working on for over a year, and I'm to the point I'm ready to rip them all out and be done with it, not to mention the fact they got trashed in Castle Haunt III too, which I went back and finished up and released in the b10b just to be done with it.

That's why I've been calling for a STABLE release, so builders wouldn't have to keep redoing things, and players wouldn't be forced to download obscure versions of ZC every time they want to play a quest.

[Nicholas Steel]

and if you backed up your quest freedom prior to using the beta's you would fined that nothing would have permanent effect on you... (excluding loss of work done in a beta)

[Freedom]

and if you backed up your quest freedom prior to using the beta's you would fined that nothing would have permanent effect on you... (excluding loss of work done in a beta)

Of course I back my quests up Franpa, but who wants to go back and redo months of work that was done after the change up to a newer beta, they are ALL betas.
I went through this exact thing with Link to Tortuga, it was built up to 95% completion in 192b184, and then 2.10 came out and it was finished in that which introduced new bugs into it.
My tileset was built in 2.10, otherwise at this point I'd go back to 184, since it's the most stable, even as buggy as it is.

Truth is, Jman and "L" just aren't reading from the same book, Jman assures a stable release, and "L" keeps adding more and more making that impossible.
Jman assures the FFC combo's will be put back in, and "L" says no they won't.

I'll just wait for a stable release, and the in fighting between developers to stop before I do any more with ZC.

[C-Dawg]

I'll vote for _L_. Preserving the tinkering of a few quest makers isn't worth the hassle of stifling the development of ZQuest. That said, I hope this backwards compatability thing works. And I still sorta liked the combo implementation, cuz it saved clicks.... ah well.

[Freedom]

I have to disagree with the "few quest makers" part of your comment.
ALL the best quest makers have stopped production waiting for a solid release.
DFW, Petoe, Shoelace, and more.
I might be the only one openly calling for a stable release before more more more is added, but I can assure you I'm not the only one that feels that way.

If there was a version available right now to actually build and release quests in, how much more is added to betas wouldn't be an issue, but there is nothing from the 192b184 up that can be used since the 2.10 has the quest crippling shop bug and every beta since has even worse problems.

Nobody wants to stifle development of Zelda Classic, but at the same time, who wants to be a "professional" beta tester for a program that can't even be used at this point to build and release a quest with.