Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams

[_L_]

Because again, there can be another Zelda game that fits the Beginning of aLttP.

Really? Because it's very clear that the only remembered history in LttP is that of the Imprisoning War.

Because you said yourself, Ganon hasn't been released from the Dark World since the Imprisoning war. But what about The Wind Waker and also TP?

Like I said, it's an alternative timeline. It's the only way it makes sense.

Also, your split storyline doesn't make sense. You said it is split like this Adult Link and Child Link right.

No, I don't say that Young Link only exists in the LttP line or that Adult Link only exists in the WW line. I just say that the LttP line and the WW line are identical up to the point that Ganondorf gets the Triforce.

In the OoT line, Ganondorf only gets the Triforce of Power, and then he returns from the Sacred Realm and rules Hyrule for 7 years.

In the LttP line, Ganondorf gets the full Triforce, but "Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World..." (Maiden in Swamp Palace, LttP) so the LttP Imprisoning War happens.

I can't explain how or why within the context of the events themselves, but that's where the split must be made.

...

To recap: there are two reasons why I say that the timeline must be split and that we can't just say that OoT's events overrule LttP's (which is probably what the OoT authors originally intended):
* LttP can only follow from OoT, and Ganon has the full Triforce in LttP. This is a plot hole that can't be argued out of.
* WW exists, and WW's backstory is incompatable with LttP's.

[Shoelace]

Really? Because it's very clear that the only remembered history in LttP is that of the Imprisoning War.

Well since In the Wind Waker no one remembered the time of Ocarina of Time, it can happen again. What I was saying was, there can be another war called The Imprisoning War called the events of the Wind Waker. A new Hyrule will be found and maybe Ganon will come back and have the whole war and capture the whole Triforce.

Okay, maybe the Imprisoning War was Ocarina of Time's story as I was doing a little bit of research. It seems that when they made Ocarina of Time, they were trying to tell the story of that war, of aLttP's backstory, I think that is what you were trying to say. Anyways, I still think that Nintendo just screwed it up. We all know that Nintendo was doing gameplay play first, storyline last. When they made aLttP, maybe they changed the backstory to make the gameplay better and story unique. They said, lets give Ganon the Triforce of Power, and then went oops we were supposed to give him the whole Triforce as aLttP says that. Wind Waker was the first game that they tried to connect them. I know Nintendo will be making more games that go between the games, so we don't know for sure that this is going to pan out.

To recap: there are two reasons why I say that the timeline must be split and that we can't just say that OoT's events overrule LttP's (which is probably what the OoT authors originally intended):
* LttP can only follow from OoT, and Ganon has the full Triforce in LttP. This is a plot hole that can't be argued out of.
* WW exists, and WW's backstory is incompatable with LttP's.

I still don't like the split storyline because it yet doesn't make sense. aLttP can follow WW in my opinion. I just think that Imprisoning War can still happen, after WW. It can. I haven't seen any reason to say why not. If you can believe the split storyline, saying there was another Imprisoning War for Ganon to get the whole Triforce, then why can't you think that it could happen after tWW? Or maybe, Nintendo just ignored the fact that the Ganon never got out of the Dark World between the games. What if Nintendo just screwed up and rewrote the storyline again?

Either way, this doesn't have anything to do with my game. Since you can't prove the split storyline, it isn't a fact that my game is wrong. In fact, even if there was a split storyline, my story can still make sense since they are parallel worlds. And we all know that you can travel between parallel worlds; i.e. Majora's Mask, aLttP.

So I answered must of the questions about HoD and the problems you saw with it, and it looks like I made sense of everything, so it doesn't look like I have a problem, except for just that split timeline debate. So was there anything else you needed to know about my storyline in my game? Hope you are enjoying it thus far.

Also, in my upcoming games, I know who I would talk to if I had a question on the Zelda Series. And I do have a big question that I am going to research soon, that wasn't covered here.

[erm2003]

OK, now here's a little monkey wrench to think about...

If WW takes place before LttP, explain how Hyrule is not flooded. WW is definitely after OoT, there is no disputing that. Somewhere I remember seeing WW takes place 100 years (or hundreds, can't remember which) after OoT. So it honestly doesn't make sense with LttP, especially with the Triforce ending. There could be a screw up somewhere. But let's say we were to "ignore" the fact that Link gets the entire Triforce at the end of LttP. Could WW logically follow it then?

I don't know if they really screwed up the story line or just decided to take it in a different direction after LttP.

[_L_]

What I was saying was, there can be another war called The Imprisoning War called the events of the Wind Waker.

Ahh, a very good question: why can't there be multiple Imprisoning Wars?

Well, the LttP manual says that in the history of LttP's people, the Imprisoning War was precipitated by Ganondorf breaking into the Sacred Realm to get the Triforce. One event directly leads to the other - there's no chance that the people of Hyrule forgot about a previous imprisoning (OoT) and releasing (WW) that may have occurred between the Sacred Realm invasion and the LttP Imprisoning War. And considering that the people in Hero of Dreams remember the Hero of Time and the events that made him a hero, it's certain that Two Imprisoning Wars is incompatable with One Sacred Realm Invasion.

So, in order for a Second Imprisoning War to be plausible, you have to assume that in future canon storylines: 1) the Triforce will be returned to the Sacred Realm, 2) that the Sacred Realm's entrance will again be lost, 3) that Ganondorf will again fortuitously discover it, and 4) that he will again be sealed inside the Sacred Realm by Seven Sages.

But here's another point: LttP's also states that the Hylians were the ones who fought in the Imprisoning War, and in LttP's time the Hylians have all been replaced with more mundane Humans. Hylians are also in short supply in WW's world - the Helmaroc King was sent by Ganondorf to search for "girls with pointed ears", and, if memory serves, it only found four such girls. So unless there is an unexpected and unexplained resurgence in pointy-eared folk in WW's sequels, I'll have to declare the Two Imprisoning Wars theory very unlikely.

When they made aLttP, maybe they changed the backstory to make the gameplay better and story unique. They said, lets give Ganon the Triforce of Power, and then went oops we were supposed to give him the whole Triforce as aLttP says that.

I don't quite think they made an "oops", per se. Presumably they didn't notice at all. It's an easy point to miss, especially considering the multiple meaning of the word "Triforce".

In fact, even if there was a split storyline, my story can still make sense since they are parallel worlds. And we all know that you can travel between parallel worlds; i.e. Majora's Mask, aLttP.

What of it? Hero of Dreams can only take place in one line or the other. Either the Hero of Winds was native to HoD's timeline, or the Hero of Light was. It seems a bit too much of a stretch to assert that a parallel timeline's Hero would somehow become imbued in another timeline's Legend. That the people would raise a statue of a Hero when the events that made him a hero simply never happened. Especially since no canon events provide a precedent for this.

If WW takes place before LttP, explain how Hyrule is not flooded.

Solution 1: WW does not take place before LttP.
Solution 2: LttP takes place in the "new world" that was mentioned at WW's end. But see above for arguments against this.

[Shoelace]

Ahh, a very good question: why can't there be multiple Imprisoning Wars?

Well, the LttP manual says that in the history of LttP's people, the Imprisoning War was precipitated by Ganondorf breaking into the Sacred Realm to get the Triforce. One event directly leads to the other - there's no chance that the people of Hyrule forgot about a previous imprisoning (OoT) and releasing (WW) that may have occurred between the Sacred Realm invasion and the LttP Imprisoning War. And considering that the people in Hero of Dreams remember the Hero of Time and the events that made him a hero, it's certain that Two Imprisoning Wars is incompatable with One Sacred Realm Invasion.

So, in order for a Second Imprisoning War to be plausible, you have to assume that in future canon storylines: 1) the Triforce will be returned to the Sacred Realm, 2) that the Sacred Realm's entrance will again be lost, 3) that Ganondorf will again fortuitously discover it, and 4) that he will again be sealed inside the Sacred Realm by Seven Sages.

But here's another point: LttP's also states that the Hylians were the ones who fought in the Imprisoning War, and in LttP's time the Hylians have all been replaced with more mundane Humans. Hylians are also in short supply in WW's world - the Helmaroc King was sent by Ganondorf to search for "girls with pointed ears", and, if memory serves, it only found four such girls. So unless there is an unexpected and unexplained resurgence in pointy-eared folk in WW's sequels, I'll have to declare the Two Imprisoning Wars theory very unlikely.

Well the thing is, seeing that Link didn't find the new world in WW yet, we have no idea how many people are actually living there. A whole bunch of people that could become Hylians (after the kingdom is started). I can still see the Imprisoning Wars happening again. Am I wrong, most likely, but I am telling you a contradiction to your split theory.

Also who in the Hero of Dreams knows about the Hero of Time? I thought I made sure that I did not allow this to happen. The thing is no one knows about them or their legends, except for the legend of Hero of Courage as that will just years ago. The only thing that they know about anything is the statues with the descriptions. I was going to make it so you will be able to read the descriptions, but without multiple warps (2.10 didn't have them), you couldn't play the ocarina to go inside it. So I took out the descriptions. (Also, I never said how the statues got put there; never said the people themselves made them). But other then the statues, no one knows about any of the heroes in my game.

However, the archaeologists are finding clues about "The Legend of Zelda". And the main Researcher/Archaologist is Donmore. And he knows a lot about the Hero's storyline. Since you haven't been through my game, I am not going to continue what I was saying as I don't want to spoil things.

[Pineconn]

What! Zelda 2 is a direct continuation of Zelda 1! Wind Waker was custom-measured to fit after OoT! And OoT was designed to be a pseudo-prequel to LttP! And you say that none of them do?

For more information, see Zelda Legends continuity theories. What I outlined in the top post is a variant on NOA Order with the Wind Waker storyline being parallel to LttP.

I meant none of the custom quests really fit into the timeline, not the official games.

You know, you can use this box since this thread is filled with so many spoilers:

Spoiler: show

Somebody brought up an interesting theory explaining how Wind Waker is before LttP. You remember that the Koroks planted the seeds throughout the Great Sea in TWW? Well, the theory states that these trees, with the Forest Water sprinkled on them (you remember that side-quest, I'm sure), grew to be several Deku Trees and connected their roots to form a new land mass, connecting the various islands of the Great Sea.

This person's timeline theory read like this:

Creation of Hyrule

Book of Mudora is written

Link I:
OoT - first half
MM
OoT - second half (ALttP's backstory)
TAoL's backstory

Link II:
TP (TWW's backstory)

Flood - Book of Mudora is lost

Link III:
TWW
PH

Book of Mudora is rediscovered

Link IV:
TLoZ (TMC's backstory)
TAoL

Link V:
OoS
OoA
LA

Link VI:
TMC

Link VII:
FS
FSA

Link VIII:
ALttP

I could post the ENTIRE text file of the Zelda timeline if anyone would like. This is just a very simplified version.

[zyoss2000]

Man, this is one heated debate

Here is what I think the story line is

Hero of time (OOT, MM OOS&OOA)

Twilight princess hero

Hero of Winds (WW&PH)

Some unknown hero we dont know about yet (Pre Minishcap?)

Minish cap

Hero of Light (LTTP, LA, FS, FSA)

Hero of Courage (Zelda 1 & 2, and mabey those stupid CDi Zelda games...)



Remember, there are going to be more zelda games, so they might put in a new hero in between the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light.

This person's timeline theory read like this:

Creation of Hyrule

Book of Mudora is written

Link I:
OoT - first half
MM
OoT - second half (ALttP's backstory)
TAoL's backstory

Link II:
TP (TWW's backstory)

Flood - Book of Mudora is lost

Link III:
TWW
PH

Book of Mudora is rediscovered

Link IV:
TLoZ (TMC's backstory)
TAoL

Link V:
OoS
OoA
LA

Link VI:
TMC

Link VII:
FS
FSA

Link VIII:
ALttP

I find this timeline quite unreliable.

First off, you state that the book of Mudora was some sort of history book or something. It never says that in LTTP. It says it can read anciant Hylian Language.

Secondly, you state that the first zelda game was the prequle to Minish cap. Since when did Zelda 1 have the Picori blade? Never. So, Minish Cap and Zelda 1 are unrelated in that way.

And lastly, there is no way some stupid trees can somehow make land appear. There are already planty of trees around on the Great Sea in the Wind Waker, and they didn't dry up Hyrule. Whoever suggested that might want to go back to school and actually stay awake in science class.

[_L_]

Man, this is one heated debate

Here is what I think the story line is

Hero of time (OOT, MM OOS&OOA)

Twilight princess hero

Hero of Winds (WW&PH)

Some unknown hero we dont know about yet (Pre Minishcap?)

Minish cap

Hero of Light (LTTP, LA, FS, FSA)

Hero of Courage (Zelda 1 & 2, and mabey those stupid CDi Zelda games...)

Some complaints:
* Oracles cannot follow from OoT because at the start of Oracles, Ganon is completely dead. Twinrova's appearance proves nothing since they died in OoT.
* Also, at the start of Oracles, the complete Triforce is in Hyrule Castle. Thus, the best place to insert it is after LttP. (But with a different hero, of course. "The Hero of Nature and Time"?)
* The best place to insert Link's Awakening is directly after Oracles. (In the second quest ending of Oracles, Link departs on a boat. Not a coincidence!)

Remember, there are going to be more zelda games, so they might put in a new hero in between the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light.

See my argument against Multiple Imprisoning Wars for why I consider this quite unlikely.

First off, you state that the book of Mudora was some sort of history book or something. It never says that in LTTP. It says it can read anciant Hylian Language.

Wait... consider this quote:

I am Aginah. I sense something is happening in the Golden Land the seven wise men sealed...

This must be an omen of the Great Cataclysm foretold by the people of Hylian blood...

... ... ...
The prophecy says, "The Hero will stand in the desert holding the Book Of Mudora."

Thus, if the Book of Mudora is mentioned in a prophecy made by the Hylians, then it must be as old as the Hylians.

Secondly, you state that the first zelda game was the prequle to Minish cap. Since when did Zelda 1 have the Picori blade? Never. So, Minish Cap and Zelda 1 are unrelated in that way.

My own opinion of the Four Sword games is that they either take place in a completely disconnected timeline altogether, or they take place a good century or three after Zeldas 1/2. (An important hole in my knowledge is what role Ganon had in Four Swords Adventures, which I have yet to play.)

[zyoss2000]

My own opinion of the Four Sword games is that they either take place in a completely disconnected timeline altogether, or they take place a good century or three after Zeldas 1/2. (An important hole in my knowledge is what role Ganon had in Four Swords Adventures, which I have yet to play.)

You havn't beaten FSA?!?

Well, all I can say is that Ganondorf is indeed in the game, but thats all I'm saying.

[_L_]

You havn't beaten FSA?!?

Yeah, I know. From what I've heard it's supposed to have an extremely over-the-top storyline, beginning with Zelda and six maidens being kidnapped and the Four Sword being awakened, and culminating in the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny where all four Links take on Dark Link, Ganon, Vaati, Onox, Veran, Twinrova, Phantom Ganon, Agahnim and the Shadow Nightmares all at once. And Ganon is wearing Majora's Mask.

(But then, I was also assured that the entire game was multiplayer only!)