The First Dungeon: Theme.

[Nimono]

Yeah, sorry. I kinda got carried away there about the treasure chest dungeon. I don't really know what a gimmick is, so.... Maybe that could be the second dungeon? Maybe the first could be one of the dungeons in ALttP, only without all the special feature it would have, like poundable moles, switches, rising/falling blocks, and treasure chests that appear magically.

[rocksfan13]

An ice Dungeon would be fine. Maybe have the dungeon all ice up until some point where you need to find a key element in the dungeon to remove the ice and turn it to water to continue on and finish. Or even maybe the other way around. Water to ice.

Might make good use of the 256 color spectrum for the combos.

But I definately agree with trying to keep the rooms themselves from being square. Maybe put a little graphical change in the appearance in the begining and advance it further on in next levels.

Having an intro screen could easily give an example of how to input this sort of thing into a quest and might solve the questions about "How do I do an intro?"

[ZTC]

How about a desert dungeon? A number of rooms could have sand on the ground where you could use lots of sand-type enemies like Leevers and Lanmolas. Its a nice, simple theme that lets you do pretty much whatever you want with it.

sounds interesting, but how about that theme with fire (heat of day) ice (dead of night), or the combination thereof? It might provide some interesting puzzles to solve... (sorry if it's a bit vague, but with being tired as heck, I can't think straight atm)

[firefly]

An ice Dungeon would be fine. Maybe have the dungeon all ice up until some point where you need to find a key element in the dungeon to remove the ice and turn it to water to continue on and finish. Or even maybe the other way around. Water to ice.

Sorry, but isn't that a Gimmick?

[rocksfan13]

Changing from one to the other might be, but the dungeon as ice or water, or fire, or whatever wouldn't be. Maybe save it until later on in the game.

[Rakki]

I didn't realize gimmicks included unique dungeon themes (like Treasure Chest). Non-gimmicks would probably be the basics, like standard dungeon walls, forest, desert, ice OR water (not both), fire, wind, dark, light, etc. Out of these ordinary themes, I think I like forest the best for the first dungeon. Perhaps the second could use water and ice, since we keep talking about the gimmick dungeon possibly using things like changing water levels (which I could CERTAINLY help with making, as I have a bunch of cool ideas floating around in my head).

Oh, and BH4, you remember how I said I thought I had some ideas for uses for the Room State Carryover? The reason I couldn't get them to work before was because I didn't know it ONLY activates on secrets being triggered. I think I can get at least some of my ideas to work now that I know HOW to use RSCs. If I can get at least one of them to work, I'll help out with the gimmicks in the quest. Provided that you like what I come up with, that is. :p

[ShadowTiger]

I didn't realize gimmicks included unique dungeon themes (like Treasure Chest).

"Gimmick" is a fairly loose term. It encompasses a lot of things, but it also doesn't encompass many things that you'd think would be included. It's the overall effect and feel of the dungeon that ultimately determines what sort of dungeon we're exploring. Since the goal of the first dungeon here is a key-romp, wall-bombing, individual-puzzle-room-solving dungeon, we don't get a gimmick here. Nothing involving the whole dungeon in the puzzle.

Non-gimmicks would probably be the basics, like standard dungeon walls, forest, desert, ice OR water (not both),

I don't see why you can't have both water and ice in there. :p [quote] fire, wind, dark, light, etc. Out of these ordinary themes, I think I like forest the best for the first dungeon.[quote]Agreed. :p XD Then again, I'm somewhat of a nature boy, so I'm inclined to say such a thing.

Perhaps the second could use water and ice, since we keep talking about the gimmick dungeon possibly using things like changing water levels (which I could CERTAINLY help with making, as I have a bunch of cool ideas floating around in my head).

Heh. A little mundane, but certainly possible. Adding to idea list. :p

Oh, and BH4, you remember how I said I thought I had some ideas for uses for the Room State Carryover? The reason I couldn't get them to work before was because I didn't know it ONLY activates on secrets being triggered. I think I can get at least some of my ideas to work now that I know HOW to use RSCs. If I can get at least one of them to work, I'll help out with the gimmicks in the quest. Provided that you like what I come up with, that is. :p

Any idea of any scale is good to have. :) Thank you very much. ^-^ Please, the more the merrier, Rakki!

[Rakki]

"Gimmick" is a fairly loose term. It encompasses a lot of things, but it also doesn't encompass many things that you'd think would be included. It's the overall effect and feel of the dungeon that ultimately determines what sort of dungeon we're exploring. Since the goal of the first dungeon here is a key-romp, wall-bombing, individual-puzzle-room-solving dungeon, we don't get a gimmick here. Nothing involving the whole dungeon in the puzzle. I don't see why you can't have both water and ice in there. :p

I think we're missing what each other is getting at here. ^_^; The only thing I was suggesting, as far as the treasure chest dungeon goes, is that the walls/floor of the dungeon make it LOOK like you're inside a bunch of treasure chests. The puzzles wouldn't have anything to do with treasure chests (unless there was an item IN a chest, in which case, that'd be all it was, lol). And yes, a water and ice dungeon could work, but I figured a dungeon with ice melting to water or freezing to help you out in whatever way would be gimmicky. :p

Edit: And apparently I DON'T know how to use RSCs... Isn't there a thread on how to get them to work somewhere?

[ShadowTiger]

The only thing I was suggesting, as far as the treasure chest dungeon goes, is that the walls/floor of the dungeon make it LOOK like you're inside a bunch of treasure chests. The puzzles wouldn't have anything to do with treasure chests

Well, alright, but then my question is, why? :p

And melting a little bit of ice here and there isn't a gimmick if you do it on a screen-by-screen basis. That would be much more of a puzzle. Most "Gimmicks" would be done in a floor by floor basis, rather than an individual screen by screen basis. The whole dungeon could and would be affected at an entire time.

RSC's, if we're both thinking the same thing regarding what they are, ... are relatively simple to use, I suppose. On one screen, refer to (In the screen flags area.) a map and screen which would be affected in the same way you're affecting the present screen. If you trigger secrets on this screen, the secrets will be triggered on the screen you're referring to. If you want a "loop" of secrets triggered, i.e. that if you trigger secrets on one screen they're Triggered on ALL of the screens, then you'd make a loop of referrals, having one screen refer to the next, and back again so no screen refers to a screen that's not in the loop. (A Circle or Chain, if you will.) All you need to do there is have only one (Or the desired amount.) of screens with the ability to trigger secrets.

[Rakki]

Okay, now correct me if I'm wrong... but RSCs only work on screens with permanent secrets, don't they? I was trying to do something with push blocks and block triggers, but it wouldn't work, but just a little while ago, I used a RSC on an overworld screen to carry the state of bombable tiles over to another screen and it did seem to work... So I guess, if I want to use these with block puzzles, I have to set the room flag "Treat As Cave?"