"NeoFirst.qst" Planning.

[ShadowTiger]

Essentially, jman (And others. :p ) have expressed their wishes that a new DemoQuest be created which would display all, if not most of the newest features in ZC. The quest will be called "NeoFirst.qst" and it will be similar to Demo quest in design. (Though not in layout.) It will use as many features as possible, have three dungeons, (For the "Triforce." ;-p ) And will be between moderate to hard on the difficulty scale.

Therefore, what we need to do will take place in the following steps, in pretty much this order.

1. Discuss what this quest will need to accomplish and exhibit.
2. Figure out if we're doing a: 1) NewFirst replacement. 2) DemoQuest Sequel. 3) Whole new quest.
3. Find a useful tileset as well as tiles which will facilitate that need.
   
   • 2x2 Link.
   • ALTTP Style Movement complete with frames for the 2x2 Link.
   • Tiles for a Custom boss which will be discussed later.
4. Once we have the tileset, we'll need to plan it out. An overworld, complete with at least three themes (Winter area, Spring Area, Swamp, etc. Can be anything, really. Anything at all.) will be necessary. (8x8 minimum, 32x16 maximum, though something closer to the minimum would be nice. :p )
5. Three dungeons will be made. One will be a dungeon of moderate difficulty. Something along the lines of any given level 6 (Out of 8.) from any random quest. It will be your average key-quest dungeon, maybe one or two gimmicks, but nothing major. It will exhibit the abilities of the Treasure Chests, and the Lockblock Combos, and Tiered Combos. (Which were technically already in, but it's still nice to use them.) They'll be using the Reset combo, of course.
6. A second dungeon will be somewhat more difficult. The Gimmick will be its primary focus here. It can be any of the stereotypical:
   
   • Forest Temple - Plant vines to ascend, burn trees to continue, play music to make things happen.
   • Water Temple - Raise and lower water levels to go around the temple.
   • Shadow Temple - A Temple filled with illusionary walls, items, sprites, and things to make your skin crawl. Undead optional.
   • Fire Temple - Watch where you step. Possibly an Elevation-based dungeon.
   • YOUR IDEA HERE
7. A Final Dungeon which will feature Ganondorf (Or just Ganon, who knows.) as the final boss. It will be a penultimate dungeon, which will require all of your mental processes to maneuver around, as it will make exceptional use of just about every new feature which can be used toward the dungeon. It'll definitely either be something non-conventional, such as a corrupted Bastion of Angels, ... or the extreme stereotype of the "Final Dungeon Of ur head asplode x 1,000,000." Something like that. Demo Quest was pretty difficult, but not unbeatable, ... and it impressed hundreds, if not thousands over the years. NeoFirst should do the same, only moreso.
8. We'll need to assemble a team of developers to help create the many aspects of this quest. We'll need:
   
   1. Builders - People to actually construct the quest within ZQuest.
   2. Planners - Creative people to map out the overworlds and the dungeons so they won't be randomly drawn when the time comes to create them. DFW would be wonderful for this, I think, but that's only one of many whos name pops up.
   3. Graphics Artists - (*b*, C-Dawg, Radien, Petoe, Myself, etc.) Tile/Pixel artists who are willing to design the custom graphics for the quest. From what I believe, Gashin (*b*) has been nice enough to lend us his own tileset for NeoFirst. Now we just need the Custom Boss. We'll also need tiles for whatever we plan out for the future, but that comes later.
   4. Midis - We'll need midis for the quest. The thing is, this comes much later for when we have just about 100% of the quest's themes done. A good mood makes or break a quest, and the music makes or breaks the mood.
9. Quest Testers - This will come much, much later, obviously. We'll need a few people to test for bugs, and to make sure that it's at least playable. We'll need two types of testers:
   
   • Bug Testers - Very diligent people who look in every crack and crevice looking for the occasional blank undercombo, or continue bug, etc.
   • Difficulty Testers - A few brave souls who will go through the quest without any assistance or cheat codes whatsoever, who will see if the quest is playable by the intermediate players out there, and at least able to be admired from a relative distance by the TLOZ Newbies out there.
10. When the quest is done, we'll need a little bit of space to upload the files to. We'll also need a few tantalizing screenshots. Maybe even someone to write up a brief FAQ for the quest could help a little with that.

So, what are everyones' thoughts? Remember, this quest is meant to be two things:

• A Demo Quest for the new generation of ZC.
• An exhibition as to most, if not all, of ZC's new features.

If you think you're hot stuff, please consider applying. ;-D A visual record of your work is also greatly appreciated.

[Anthus]

hi im nu can i help!!!!!?!??!!?!?

:p :p

I saw your topic over at Pure, and this really interests me :) Graphically, I can't offer you more than what I already have in the database at Pure since you can sprite a lot better than me anyway, but I could help with actual design.

I have a few questions and comments myself though:

• Will there be other, smaller dungeons for certain items?
• Will the entire overworld be explorable from the start (Like the original Zelda) Or will parts be blocked off by certain items needed to proceed?
• Instead of an 8x8, or 16x32, why don't you just use a normal 16x8 :p

I want to help out with this because I want to get familiar with the new features as soon as I can so I can begin to incorporate them into the future of my own quest(s).

On the subject of the overworld once more, you were talking about regions? How's about the "normal" mountain which could be used as fire/ lava or snow/ ice or both :). A forest/ swamp, but the last one should be something different and creative that will really stand out and showcase some stuff. What about some vast underworld dimension, or perhaps a flying crystal fortress? And where would the player start? Perhaps a neutral, central field area? Perhaps you could make each dungeon hold a major item absolutely required to enter the next area of the overworld, or better yet, make the dungeon item get you into a secret. mini dungeon which holds the item needed to go on...

But... ...these are only ideas ... ... ...

[ShadowTiger]

This really interests me :) Graphically, I can't offer you more than what I already have in the database at here since you can sprite a lot better than me anyway, but I could help with actual design.

That would be wonderful. :) When I design quests, I usually end up winging a lot of the actual physical areas and such. It'd be really nice to know what we'd be doing before we do it. I don't want to slap down a really nice area, then not have it "connect" with other areas.


Replies in Bold to the following:

I have a few questions and comments myself though:

• Will there be other, smaller dungeons for certain items? I hadn't thought of this, really. I have no idea whatsoever what we'd be doing in terms of the items, but I -think- they'd have to do with the dungeons. I probably want the second dungeon (Actually, the third.) to be fairly non-linear. The items and their placement will definitely have something to do with that. I have a sample of the third dungeon style on my computer that I should upload eventually.
• Will the entire overworld be explorable from the start (Like the original Zelda) Or will parts be blocked off by certain items needed to proceed? I sort of doubt that. If it IS available, then the first few screens within the next dungeon Will NOT be accessible if you haven't completed the previous dungeon. I think that's how I'll set it up. However, you will probably be able to get into at least a few screens of the next dungeon if you haven't completed the previous. ... So yes, I suppose the overworld will be totally accessible to you. However, a few areas won't be, but they'll only be single screens. Of course, it'll be up to you to realize that you'll be walking into a red-ring or higher area without any ring at all, and be aware of the risks regarding such an endeavor.
• Instead of an 8x8, or 16x32, why don't you just use a normal 16x8 This has to do with the design of the quest. I do kinda want to get the world themes all fleshed out and theorized before we start designing the actual screens. It's nice to get a sense of size, depth, and perspective of each area before you begin so you'll know how big you need to make everything else.

I want to help out with this because I want to get familiar with the new features as soon as I can so I can begin to incorporate them into the future of my own quest(s).

Ah, this is most wise. The creative soul will learn much on his journey towards knowledge, ironically enough. ... ... No, actually, that's just how you get there. ^-^' *lol* Silly me.

On the subject of the overworld once more, you were talking about regions? How's about the "normal" mountain which could be used as fire/ lava or snow/ ice or both :).

IMHO, a "Normal" mountain wouldn't have any of them. The most it'd have are falling rocks, and a pocketload of Lynels and Tektites. Those areas are far too uninteresting, In my opinion. At most, I'd have like, ... four or five screens of such an area. Possibly as a brief connector area to other, more themed mountainous areas which would also connect to other places.

A forest/ swamp, but the last one should be something different and creative that will really stand out and showcase some stuff.

Always. At least one of those two -will- be in the quest, without a doubt.

What about some vast underworld dimension, or perhaps a flying crystal fortress? And where would the player start? Perhaps a neutral, central field area?

Relate the area I underlined to everything else underlined there, and you'll have a sense of what goes on in my head. You might even start there, leave, then go back there to finish the game. Thoughts? A central area though, ... well, there'll obviously be one. It might not be that big though, as once more, ... they're fairly boring.

Perhaps you could make each dungeon hold a major item absolutely required to enter the next area of the overworld, or better yet, make the dungeon item get you into a secret. mini dungeon which holds the item needed to go on...

The former, I mentioned already. The latter, though, ... that, I like. It'd be a little bit more complex, but I do like the theory of not hiding a crucial item within the dungeon itself. Doing that would be like putting the key to your prison cell on the wall of the cell juuuuust out of your reach. Obviously, that's not realistic. Granted, none of this is realistic, but that doesn't mean we have to trash realism as a whole.

Replied at Pure. :p

[Anthus]

I suppose I can officially apply for some stuff then :)

Just a little note before I start listing things, maybe we should get a few more people before anything is actually finalized...

• Sketching (Literally, sketching, as in draw and scan) some "beta" maps of what ever you want, but I'm assuming more people will jump on this since its only been a couple hours since you posted this :p).
  
• Of course, I can also draw screens in ZC (Though I prefer overworld to dungeon screens) and I will say I am pretty good at that
  
• Much later down the road, I would love to beta test (preferably the difficulty portion).

[Dart Zaidyer]

If this is supposed to be a showcase of ZC's various features, then we should use other music formats instead of just midi. To not do so would be like endorsing the idea that they don't matter, which has been a curiously prevalent notion ever since their introduction in response to everyone asking for them.

[ShadowTiger]

I suppose I can officially apply for some stuff then :)

Just a little note before I start listing things, maybe we should get a few more people before anything is actually finalized...

• Sketching (Literally, sketching, as in draw and scan) some "beta" maps of what ever you want, but I'm assuming more people will jump on this since its only been a couple hours since you posted this :p).
• Of course, I can also draw screens in ZC (Though I prefer overworld to dungeon screens) and I will say I am pretty good at that
• Much later down the road, I would love to beta test (preferably the difficulty portion).

Heh, not a problem. :p I think that the people who would be best suited for building the quest, are people with a LOT of time on their hands. I'm in my Upper Sophomore year of College, and I don't even have a major yet, ... and although my Friday nights into Saturdays are totally free, for the most part, every other time during the week isn't ideal for me to be in ZC nor ZQuest. Sketching some plans for dungeons would be great, but remember, they need to be top quality. They need to surpass even Revenge 2 Dungeons. They need to even surpass Mr. Z's dungeons, and frankly, that's not an easy feat. Not by a longshot.

If this is supposed to be a showcase of ZC's various features, then we should use other music formats instead of just midi. To not do so would be like endorsing the idea that they don't matter, which has been a curiously prevalent notion ever since their introduction in response to everyone asking for them.

MP3s are out though. Too big. (Actually, it'd depend on the MP3, as well as its use. An MP3 for the final boss music should be done, I'd say.) As for the rest, SPCs would make good themes, don't you think? We'll plan that out in the later stages with mood.

[firefly]

I'd like to help, i'm not a n00b, I started playing since 1.00 (or the version with the bug that allowed a player getting free items when buying bombs), and I've made 2 quests that I didn't released, I'd like to Beta Test the quest, I'll leave the quest to the experts...
Anyway, I have an idea:

• When you get the 'Boss Key', 'Compass' OR the 'Map' use a Boss Flag to turn the dungeon different, Example: When you get the Map, the traps will start moving.

• A second dungeon will be somewhat more difficult. The Gimmick will be its primary focus here. It can be any of the stereotypical:
  • Forest Temple - Plant vines to ascend, burn trees to continue, play music to make things happen.
  • Water Temple - Raise and lower water levels to go around the temple.
  • Shadow Temple - A Temple filled with illusionary walls, items, sprites, and things to make your skin crawl. Undead optional.
  • Fire Temple - Watch where you step. Possibly an Elevation-based dungeon.
  • YOUR IDEA HERE

I have 2 ideas:

Wind Temple - Wind, Peahats, conveyors and Armos are par of the Dungeon, Idea from Wind Waker.

Stone Temple - Gibdos, Keese, Pits and "Bombchus" are in this temple, Idea from Majora's Mask.

I know these aren't the best ideas...
You should post a poll for selecting the Dungeon after you get enough suggestions.

[Jigglysaint]

If you lower the bitate, MP3's shouldn't take too much space, but yeah, only like 1 or 2, and nothing copyrighted just in case.

[*b*]

as was mentioned, my tileset can be used for this, and should be easy to use, since it's based of the original Zelda, which used no layers (this uses layers, but very few). I could also make the Link sprite, since I now know how to do it easily (after twelve attempts, you'd think I would). and I could make a palette that would utilize the new enhanced colors feature, for demonstration

[Nick]

I think the Shadow Temple would be the most exploitable for features, myself. The Lens of Truth gets very little attention because people don't really know how to make it truly required. The stuff that PrinceMSC did in Revenge 2 was a step in the right direction, but it can get far more evil now that we have layers and stuff (invisible push blocks, for instance).

Regarding a major gimmick, moving the ferry of the dead around a "moat" that runs throughout the level might be fun? Granted that would use a load of secret combos unless you know what you are doing, I think that would be an interesting idea, still.

Traps would also be fun (not the spike things... I mean actual traps). Yeah... be happy I've not made it to a difficult dungeon in my quest designs thus far.

Eh... these are just ideas I'm throwing out, though.