Rather upset.....

[Nightmare]

I do agree with some things. I do like some of the newer features such as Room carry overs. (We needed that for AGES I tell you!) Layering was good but takes time to do. But I don't happen to like some of the people who judge directly off the screenshot and say "This quest is good, but the graphics are bad so it get a 2." Look at your quest. It's one of better classic ones around. (Demo ex. Although it was really a DX verison Demo quest Phantom Menace did, it takes alot to get remakes done correctly.)

Although I was a bit of a snot when I first joined and tried to beat it when I first started ZC. But I wouldn't want to see Dungeons with blank empty rooms with barely any puzzles. Add some detail but not completely blank.

Demo EX is a testament to how much time PM and I spent together. We tend to play the same way I think.

I'm working on another beta quest, I'll be around.

-James

[DarkDragon]

I actually agree with Nightmare about a lot of this. I wasn't around in the days of Phantom Menace, but was under the impression (and again, perhaps it was mistaken) that ZC was intended, first and foremost, to be a *perfect* remake of Zelda 1. Nowadays I've seen bug threads (sorry, I haven't taken the time to actually find an example, but I know they're out there) where someone mentions, "this behavior isn't the same as in the original Zelda," and everyone else will jump in and say, "who cares? The current behavior is reasonable, why go to the trouble to make a tiny change that noone will likely notice?" This kind of thinking disheartens me: yes, of course I want ZC to keep evolving, to keep accumulating new features, but first and foremost I want it to fulfill its original purpose, to be a perfect copy (or remake, or whatever you want to call it) of the classic NES game.

For those familiar with the modern DooMing scene, my complaints about ZC are identical to those I have about jDoom: what the Doomsday people are doing is cool and very flashy, but in my opinion they have become so tied up in abstracting away game elements and adding cute graphics that they have lost sight of The Point of what a port is suppose to be in the first place.
[/rant]

[*b*]

ZC stopped being a port when it included ZQuest, DarkDragon...

as for what Nightmare is saying, I partially agree. Zelda Classic is supposed to be Zelda 1 for the computer, hence the 'Classic'. however, if you're so upset about this, why did you not speak up sooner? why start complaining when a Z3 style subscreen and Link animation is implimented, instead of when animated tiles were implimented? now, I'm not saying that I dislike the improvements ZC has gotten over Z1. I love that aspect, but I do agree that a port of Z1 should be simply a port of Z1

in Nightmare's first post in this thread, he said there should be a program seperate from ZC, to handle the new stuff that's been added on top of Z1 (if that's not what you meant, Nightmare, please correct me). I think that is a fantastic idea. I'd love to see a program, with all the features of Z3 and on, that is not based off of Z1's engine (if Z1's engine still exists within ZC anymore, that is)

I think, if the developers are willing, that idea could be taken to extaordinary heights, allowing the diehard Z1 fans to make their own quests with the basic setup of Z1, and everyone else to make their own Zelda games based on the collective features of the more recent Zelda games

[Nicholas Steel]

just make two areas to download quests from. one for standard zelda 1 quests and the other for quests which use new features.

i am also aware that you can sort the quests by zc version but there is no way to tell whether the quest is a zelda 1 clone without first clicking the quest to see its description thus making it hard to find zelda 1 quest clones.

rectify the issue and then maybe nightmare and others will stop complaining.

(ps. im trying hard not to make it sound as tho your being annoying to the zc community in this thread but at the moment its a bit hard)

[DarkDragon]

ZC stopped being a port when it included ZQuest, DarkDragon...

As far as I'm concerned ZQuest is completely distinct from ZC... the former just happens to facilitate injecting user-created content into the latter. Nobody would claim Photoshop is part of the game because it can be used to draw tiles later used in custom quests; analogously ZQuest, though developed concurrently with ZC, has nothing to do with the actual game logic and how closely it parallels that of the Zelda 1 cartridge.

[Nightmare]

I guess the big problem is, there isn't enough "enhanced" Z1 support, while everything from Z3 is pretty much there.

-James

[Sir_Johnamus]

I like you James, your debates actually have points!
Here's an idea:
What if, when you started a new quest, it asked you what engine to use? For example, if you selected z1, it gave you only the stuff used in z1. Except for tiles.
If you selected z3, it would give all the stuff for z3. Except for tiles. And if you selected mixed, it gave you everything.
That's a great idea.

[ShadowTiger]

I guess the big problem is, there isn't enough "enhanced" Z1 support, while everything from Z3 is pretty much there.

-James

... *blinks* ...

I'm sorry, but if you ask me, it's exactly the opposite. At least from my standpoint. The Z1 aspect of ZC is already 100% complete, as far as I know. The Z3 portion isn't even halfway finished.


Can you elaborate a lot, please?

[jman2050]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to enhance the Z1 portion sans enemies. Until that happens, I'm not exactly sure how we can address that part.

[Nightmare]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how to enhance the Z1 portion sans enemies. Until that happens, I'm not exactly sure how we can address that part.

Well, the Z1 people haven't had an upgrade on their part in 4 years. Quite honestly, that's kinda rough.

We should get new enemies and a few new options here and there. Some do overlap (True Arrows work either way, it was actually pleasing to see that, but don't just limit it to the Z3 sub please)

I guess the best way to think of things is "How would this fit into the Z1 engine with minor improvements or enhancements without totally changing the game?" That's how to please the Z1 crowd. Example: True Arrows eliminate the Rupee requirement used because that was a cartridge limitation.

Z3 had a lot of different stuff to it and it's why object to it so much.

Anyway, I'll get to the enemies tomorrow.

-James