[5th Quest Entry] HeroOfFire

I'm back with a new 5th quest after the 4th quest went so well. I placed a little more focus on custom enemies this time, but most of them have high damage but roughly standard health, so the stronger enemies hurt, but are not tedious to kill. The custom bosses do not follow this logic, and will have more health to last longer.

This quest contains a single script design to "expand" on dungeon design, similar to how walk-through walls changed up the 2nd quest. The second room in level 2 is a demonstration of what the script does. It is not overused, it just adds another level of exploration to dungeon design.

Only one new item: the level 2 ladder, just like my proposed 4th quest.

One "new" feature, hidden in the overworld in a few locations.

Overall, about 2nd quest-level difficulty, if an early level seems hard, look for the White Sword and Blue Tunic. You can have the Magic Sword by Level 5 if you are really good at exploring everything.

Try it here:

5th Quest

Big Hint: Have you ever played or looked up BS Zelda? I use a certain secret several times, and even call it out at one point.
Other Hint: The raft is optional, but allows access to something useful much earlier.
Gameplay: Whistle Warps are the same, but you access locations based on the palette of levels completed, not the level number.

Since this quest doesn't seem to be getting enough love, its going to be the next one I focus on after I beat the two I'm working on right now. Ive already played a little bit, and the new dungeon feature you mentioned is neat. I encourage those who haven't tried it to give it a shot.

Played through Level1. Didn't find a map or the dungeon item, and didn't feel like going back to just randomly bomb every wall. I wasn't too much a fan of the linearity of it.

I thought the number of pay for door repair rooms tipped off by the lake hint were douchey. sure there's a good secret there too, but 1/4 ?

The download doesn't work for me. Anyone else having similar issues?

Went back and did the rest of level 1. Link doesn't lift the boomerang over his head.

I found level 1, and I also missed the map and dungeon item. It was a rather tough level, I died a few times, but as you said, the white sword would help. Next time I play, I'll try looking around for the white sword or blue tunic, that should make it not so tough.

level2 was a lot more enjoyable than level1. way better level design. less linear, and less unlogical bomb walls. the difficulty was WAY easier though - i do already have the blue ring and white sword though...

in level3 now, we'll see how this plays out.

edit: well, level3 was pretty easy too. what was the point of the extra rooms at the top, and bottom right of the map? just full of easy ropes? did i miss something? i wasted a lot of bombs, even with the map, trying to figure out the unmarked bombable walls.
level 4 seems to be easy too.

level5, there is a room with a blue bubble, red bubble, a couple like-likes, and a couple wizzrobes. killing the enemies gives you a key. the red bubble in the room takes away your items, but the blue bubble doesn't restore items. from the entrance screen its 3 right, and 4 up (inclusive).

this causes you to get stuck if you go left out of the room. as it leads to a one-way walkthru wall in a trap room. maybe the walls of the trap room are bombable, but i can't use my items so F6 for me.

edit: even better, there aren't any item restoring blue bubbles that i can find in the level. and it seems all the other red bubbles only do sword. also, fairies don't restore jinxes. reverting to my save...

edit2: there's another room with a red item bubble and no corresponding blue item bubble. same enemy group. its the room directly above the first one i mentioned. and if you leave there to the left, and go the only way that you're able to go, you enter a room with a gohma and the door closes behind you.

level 6 really really easy
level 7 wasn't hard either, found both items, the random heart container and the triforce really easily without even getting one key. found the compass after killing the boss. now i'm mostly walking around in circles trying to figure out where i haven't been yet in the level, i can see the map, know how i'm supposed to get there, but can't find the missing key for the door.

seems like the map is the hardest thing to get in every level.

Voting is now open for this quest. Vote for as many categories as you please, but be sure to vote before tax day!

Also, please post in this thread stating which categories you selected and explaining why you picked those categories.

Two bugs to report:

(1) In level 5, one east & one north from the start (conatins vires, and two columns of blocks) - one of the later warps places you on the east side of those columns, so you can only proceed to the right. In that room, after pushing the center block, neither the north nor south walls are bombable or walk-through. So you basically have to F6 out of there.

(2) In level 8, one east & one south of the boss (contains blue darknuts, red gibdos, and lava in the center surrounded by blocks) - after defeating the enemies, the "you found a secret sound" plays. Unless there's some secret I'm missing (I pushed all the blocks), this is a minor bug.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HeroOfFire

One "new" feature, hidden in the overworld in a few locations.

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I'm almost finished the quest (I really like it so far) but still have no idea what this "new feature" is. I haven't played BS Zelda, so if that's related to the secret, I'm still in the dark.

EDIT:

Spoiler: show

It occurrs to me you're probably referring to the "pick the bait or shield". If so, that was indeed a nice touch! It's actually a close decision, unlike choosing between the heart or potion.

Beat levels 1-2

Found levels 3,6,8

still can't find the white sword

I just finished this. I will say it seemed fairly well balanced throughout. There were a couple bugs I found, so I'll start with those.

1) The level 8 boss stays dead if you blow the whistle and die before killing all the parts and return, thus giving you the HC and allows access to the triforce piece.

2) In 9, if you take the left path at the start, there is a red bubble that takes away your items with no corresponding blue bubble to get items back in the room after exiting the stairs.

I did the levels out of order. Which is awesome because that's something I like about the original game. I did them in this order; 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 7, 8, 6, 9. I also didn't get the blue ring until I was about to enter level 6 because I couldn't find it, which I feel stupid for not looking where it is. I'm fairly certain I would have quit if I would have tried to do level 1 first. It seemed like it would be a bit too difficult for a level 1 with the wooden sword, green tunic, and 3 hearts. I'll admit I just did the levels in the order I found them.

I didn't fully explore levels 6, 7, or 9. I couldn't figure out how to get to the bottom left section of level 6 (I had the magic key so I didn't need all the keys at this point). Level 7 would have left me horribly confused with all the stair paths I kept finding and I didn't want to deal with drawing a map on paper (though I found the book at least). Level 9 I just didn't want to hunt for the red ring since I didn't need it. I also didn't find the Red Candle, which I assume is in level 6 or 7.

I don't know if it was necessary, but I ended up buying 2 keys to get the Magic Key because I couldn't find anymore keys in the dungeon with it. I don't know if I just missed the keys or if that was intentional.

In terms of difficulty, I would say that it's generally more difficult than the second quest. There are a plenty of rooms where you're required to kill things to continue, either to get a key or to open a shutter door (though not too many). The original second quest could be done with only getting a handful of keys and mostly just running past a lot of rooms. Being forced to fight increases difficulty, especially when there are shooters in enough of those rooms. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it's just an observation. I'll admit I was getting annoyed by the shooters in the later boss rooms mostly because they're shooting at you from everywhere. I never actually felt the need to use a potion either, though I did die 14 times throughout as a result of that.

The overworld secrets were a little lack luster. Most of them seemed to be in the same place as either the 1st or 2nd quest. Maybe it was my imagination, but it seemed there were more door repair charges than rupee gain secrets (I wish I had counted). The choice between bait and shield was a good touch, as was the placement of the magic sword. I didn't understand what the 2 guys that said "secrets were far" were trying to say.

The new enemies didn't change things a whole lot. I think the only one that caught me off guard was the shooting darknut. Otherwise they were mostly just slightly more difficult versions of what they were pretending to be. You may want to change their drops too since they all seemed to drop a lot of hearts, even the upgraded Keese and Like-Likes (which I feel shouldn't drop anything).

I can't rate it in comparison to other entries since this is the first I've played. But, it was an enjoyable experience. It feels that it could actually work on an original NES.

And zcfan, if you want the white sword, you'll need to unleash your inner pyromaniac.

edit: I did level 1 with 3 hearts and the wooden sword. It's a lot easier than it initially seemed when I went through it totally overpowered. Granted, I knew where stuff was, but not knowing probably wouldn't have made much difference.

Had finished level 3, haven't fully explored, having trouble getting to the rooms above the triforce and 2 to the east of start.

still can't find the white sword, but have found all the heart containers,

I finished this quest a few days ago but haven't yet had time to properly review it. Below is my post-game review of this quest.

This quest does some things exceptionally well. I found the pacing of the beginning of the beginning of the game to be excellent. The difficulty of level 1 seems just right (I think it's appropriate to be 2nd-quest difficult), but if a player is struggling, it's possible to have the white sword before the level 1 boss (if you have the bracelet and the not-too-difficult-to-find message to "use the candle near the lakes"). That sort of optionality is great, and the pacing is great for a variety of player skill levels.

Level 2 is excellent. While there are blue darknuts, you're not required to kill all enemies in the most difficult rooms (the room with four shooting statues and four blue darknuts comes to mind). The script mentioned in the first post is a nice touch.

The "pick the bait or shield" merchant was a great idea. As I said previously, it's nice that it's actually a close decision, unlike choosing between the heart or potion.

The enemy editor is used very well. As the author previously described, most of the new enemies hit harder instead of having much higher defense.

During the end-game/late-game, I was very impressed with level 7. I would humbly propose that something akin to level 7 be included in whatever the winning quest entry is. Unless you dungeon-skip to acquire the magic key, you will most likely want to make a pen-and-paper map, which I think would be great for one of the fifth quest's dungeons. (At the same time, I can understand if making a paper map turns people off.) The dungeon item,

Spoiler: show

the two-way ladder

, makes it possible to exist as a standalone dungeon, though of course it would need to be checked that it's impossible to sequence-break any subsequent levels.

There are some aspects of this quest that may prevent it from winning.

I found the location of overworld secrets, especially the dungeon entrances, to be disappointingly easy to find. For late-game secrets, the entrances to levels 7, 8, and 9 were way too easy to find. I admit that my expectations may have been too high, given that the author's overworld was used for the 4th quest, deservedly so. For instance, I really liked where level 7 is hidden in the fourth quest; similarly, it would have been great to place a dungeon entrance (instead of a moblin) in the cave one screen east of where this quest's blue ring is located.

Getting the wand in level 6 is one of the explorative highlights of this quest (I was especially tickled by the nice re-use of "You are going the wrong way"). However, prior to fighting that dungeon's boss, it's possible to burn several keys on unnecessary locks (such as is possible in level 2 of the first quest). I suppose that since it's possible to map out much of the dungeon without using all of your keys, this could be seen as only a minor drawback. However, given how well level 7 works where there are just enough keys for its locks, I think the preceding dungeon needs to be just as tight with its keys and locks.

The last two dungeons unfortunately need some improvement. In level 8, it was very easy to reach the boss, and that put a bad taste in my mouth (of course, getting the triforce wasn't the end of that dungeon). The difficulty of enemies felt too easy, like a rehash of level 6 (perhaps use more of the black darknuts). Level 9 went too fast for me; while the difficulty is ok, I think it needs to be bigger (on the 8x8 grid, there are basically two whole columns that are unused). Having to backtrack after getting the silver arrow felt to be a chore rather than lengthening the exploration.

Overall, I think this quest is a solid contender. There are some features of this quest that are truly exceptional. Due to the easy overworld secrets and some gripes with late-game dungeons, I don't know if I see this quest winning it all. But I've played about 8-10 entries so far, and I could realistically see this quest finishing in the top 4 or top 5 if it doesn't win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zcfan27330

Had finished level 3, haven't fully explored, having trouble getting to the rooms above the triforce and 2 to the east of start.

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I can't get to those rooms either, and I was certain I knew how to do it:

Spoiler: show

I took the clue about "the ones next door" to heart and, after getting the whistle, allowed myself to be taken by the hands. It didn't work; I simply ended up back at start.

Not sure how important it is to get to them. Working on Level 4 now. Have the white sword, and will seek out the two remaining overworld heart containers after completing the current level.

The was the 4th quest I completed (after the quests by dcsyxx, Chris Miller, and zcfan27330). It is easily the most 'polished' quest I've finished so far: the only errors I found were a misspelled "ENTERANCE" comment, and some extra 'secret' chimes in Levels 2, 8, and 9. (I never did figure out the meaning of the "ENTERANCE" statements were.)

After I won the game (without 2 maps, a bomb upgrade, the magic boomerang, and the magic book), I looked at the quest through the editor ... and was extremely disappointed in myself for not figuring out the meaning of the clue in Level 3! In retrospect, that clue makes perfect sense; it just never occurred to me to do what I needed to do, though at least I was on the right track. Fortunately for me, there was nothing of necessity in those areas I missed, although I could have save myself a lot on Keys. Very nicely done!

Also, I love the 'new' item, and its usage in Levels 7 and 9. These dungeons were well-crafted. A bit on the easy side down the stretch, perhaps, but also very authentic. (The 'new' Like-Likes are, perhaps, too easy; if anything, it's the 'original' versions that should drop stuff instead.)

I still got many left to peruse, but this one is my early pick for 'official' status. Kudos!

definitely my least favourite quest i've played of these entries. it was too easy - easier than 4th, probably around 2nd quest difficulty (i don't think i died after the first dungeon, which if the map or dungeon item was more obvious wouldn't have been an issue). the dungeon design was not logical - with the impossible to find maps being the main culprit. the keese dropping items was unusual.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by justin1

level5, there is a room with a blue bubble, red bubble, a couple like-likes, and a couple wizzrobes. killing the enemies gives you a key. the red bubble in the room takes away your items, but the blue bubble doesn't restore items. from the entrance screen its 3 right, and 4 up (inclusive).

this causes you to get stuck if you go left out of the room. as it leads to a one-way walkthru wall in a trap room. maybe the walls of the trap room are bombable, but i can't use my items so F6 for me.

edit: even better, there aren't any item restoring blue bubbles that i can find in the level. and it seems all the other red bubbles only do sword. also, fairies don't restore jinxes. reverting to my save...

edit2: there's another room with a red item bubble and no corresponding blue item bubble. same enemy group. its the room directly above the first one i mentioned. and if you leave there to the left, and go the only way that you're able to go, you enter a room with a gohma and the door closes behind you.

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There's a few more instances for it, I know in like Lv. 3 or 4 you didn't get your sword back either. The Triforce should cure jinxes, end of story.

Time for your review HeroOfFire:

Difficulty: 50/100

Harder than the 2nd Quest, but still, kinda god-modding in 8 and 9. That kinda sucks.

NES Authenticity: 95/100

Don't really like the exploding Gels much, but pretty accurate otherwise. Plays interestingly.

Fun Factor: 80/100

I think you could've used a few more interesting enemies, but it works. It was fun.

Overall score: 73/100. Not spectacular, but considering some of the entries broke the rules too much and its high authenticity combined with balanced difficulty, deserves to be considered among the final quests considered for the top cut.

One more left to look at.

-James

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

There's a few more instances for it, I know in like Lv. 3 or 4 you didn't get your sword back either. The Triforce should cure jinxes, end of story.

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I just came to this bug in L5, and the triforce does NOT cure this jinx, so my B item is permanently disabled. I haven't saved recently, since this has been pretty easy, so I am forced to to back up at least 3 dungeon levels, several heart containers from the surface, an so on. Right now the game is paused, but if I do have to go that far back, I probably won't bother finishing the map. This bug alone would cause me to give the map a rating of 0 anyway (if anyone ever read any of my map reviews for Heroes of Might and Magic, they'll know that any bug that prevents completion is an automatic 0 for me.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zweldron

I just came to this bug in L5, and the triforce does NOT cure this jinx, so my B item is permanently disabled. I haven't saved recently, since this has been pretty easy, so I am forced to to back up at least 3 dungeon levels, several heart containers from the surface, an so on. Right now the game is paused, but if I do have to go that far back, I probably won't bother finishing the map. This bug alone would cause me to give the map a rating of 0 anyway (if anyone ever read any of my map reviews for Heroes of Might and Magic, they'll know that any bug that prevents completion is an automatic 0 for me.)

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Did you try a fairy fountain? It's odd that the Triforce doesn't remove the jinx but you should be able to remove it with a fairy fountain, or an f6 continue if the fairy fountain doesn't work (just saying to fix your problem in the moment, it's still something that would need to be fixed if HeroOfFire goes on to the finals).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CJC

Did you try a fairy fountain? It's odd that the Triforce doesn't remove the jinx but you should be able to remove it with a fairy fountain, or an f6 continue if the fairy fountain doesn't work (just saying to fix your problem in the moment, it's still something that would need to be fixed if HeroOfFire goes on to the finals).

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I tried everything. NOTHING removed the jinx- triaforce, fairy, f6-continue, nothing. The only thing I didn't try was a potion (for obvious reasons!)
Fortunately, I make detailed maps, so I decided to retry (back to just after I completed dungeon 2), but it only took me an hour to redo all the stuff I lost (as you can tell from time of this post; oh, and I did use the digdogger trick to speed up getting through those rooms). Well, actually, a lot of secrets on the overworld are no longer uncovered, but I got the heart containers and magic sword again (again, thanks to my detailed notes).
Anyway, I'm going to save my progress more often (since the other posts in this thread indicate there may be more of these bugs lurking), but since I didn't waste too much time, I will continue to finish the quest. The bug is going to hurt my rating, but it won't be a 0 (as I stated before). If I want to be honest, my 0 rating for maps that couldn't be finished was actually only one category in HoMM (I had three ratings for design, description, and entertainment; this problem only causes an automatic 0 in the design category), so here it will not clobber everything.

Edit: Well, I finished it. total time by ZQ is just under 8 hours, which means that it took me about 10, considering my previous problems, and that I got hit with the uncurable item lock again in dungeon 9, after exploring all but 4 rooms of it.
Critical bugs aside, this quest was fairly easy. I used a total of 2 potions the entire time, and my only deaths were pre-dungeon 1, during my overworld exploration. This quest would have been great for a 3rd quest, but it really doesn't have the oomph that is expected of a 5th quest candidate.
I did like the ladder upgrade, and it made certain rooms interesting to navigate.
I would have liked to see better cluing of the dungeon locations, but I located all but the ones requiring the whistle before doing dungeon 1, so that wasn't an impediment to me. The clue for the location of the magic key was nice, but I think it would have been better to see that clue in dungeon 6 instead, as that was the first place the clud would have been applicable. If I hadn't gotten that clue for the key, I still would have expected it, since the trick was already done once. General note to map designers: if you are going to do a trick that you think needs cluing, then give the clue before the first time you do it.
Anyway, my overall impression was that this was a solid map, which really should have been more carefully inspected before release. reading through this thread, the critical problems have been there for several months- if the map has been updated, no note about that is present, so I have to assume the problem still exists. My final rating, which is reduced due to the bubble problem, is 2.28 / 5