[5th Quest Entry] Chris Miller

My idea from the beginning was to produce a quest that, if somehow burned onto a Zelda 1 cartridge, just might pass as the work of Miyamoto and his team. I'm by no means as good as those guys, but I put my best effort forward. :D

This is an old-school NES experience, with not a single line of script. I made a couple of new enemies, and added in boss keys, neither of which would be out of place. Someone told me that boss keys were required, so I added them in. Then the rule was rescinded, but I left them in anyway. No big deal. Ah, and watch out for the poison hearts. Enemies don't drop many of them, and they're different-looking, but it's something to keep an eye on.

Several of the clues refer to locations in the 1st or 2nd quests.

The overworld resembles a mix of 1st and 2nd quest design, though the shop, secret, door repair, etc. locations have been changed significantly. The dungeons have their own themes, and use only room styles found in the original game. Again, harkening to the original there. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :)

None of the dungeons have locations that correspond to screens in the 1st or 2nd quests. I haven't played the 3rd and 4th extensively, but I doubt they match up with those either. In terms of difficulty, I'd say it's perhaps 20% harder than the 2nd quest.

Here are the dungeons' names:
Level 1: Eagle II
Level 2: Torch
Level 3: Smoke
Level 4: Crone
Level 5: Sun
Level 6: Ring
Level 7: Rupee
Level 8: Skull
Level 9: Devil

And without further ado, here is the quest!

Through Level 2:

Notes:
Still haven't found a cheap Shield Shop
238 Rupees, Power Bracelet, 2 HC's, Blue Candle, Bow and Arrow, Letter (no potion shop), through Level 2.
Lv. 1 might be too hidden: Novice players won't like the 60 Rupee grind to get in. You might want to put it out in the open or at least under an Armos.
SHAME ON ME FOR LOOKING TOO HARD FOR LV. 2!
Found 1, 2, 3, and 5.

Overall, through Lv. 2, a 90 in all 3 categories of Difficulty, NES authenticity, and Fun Factor (those Pols Voice and breaking enemy groups early might be upsetting the apple cart a little too soon), and my comments on Lv. 1 earlier.

BUGS:
Moldorm Room in 3 and Magic Boomerang room: Are those statue rooms REALLY there just for decoration?
Nobody appears at the old Lv. 6 entrance.

-James

There are a two cheap shield shops, one in the desert(whistle), the other in the western mountains. For the potion shop, look where the 100-rupee upgrade was over by Level 2 in the first quest, where you burn the bush. There are three others, but that's probably the fastest. The old one by the original Level 6 is still there too. As for the Pols Voices in Level 2, remember, they were in the 2nd quest as well, along with Gibdos and Darknuts, so it's not a huge leap.

You can also pick up a quick 30 rupees in the same area from the Armos statues and old Level 2 entrance, and the old secret money screen three screens west of the very bottom right is still there, which makes an easy 60. But, I think I will go ahead and put Level 1 out in the open, and toss in another shield shop.

For the statues, I just missed them, lol. I went over everything else, but forgot to double-check all the statues. *sweat* Fixing them now. Thanks. :D

It seems I always miss one or two niggling details in the first release. I'm going to go over it again real quick and see what else I can find. Shouldn't be much if anything, though.

EDIT: Okay, fixed the statues, opened Level 1, and added in a new shield shop where Level 8 was in the first quest. I also fixed the old Level 6 thing. Same link if you want to re-download, but the changes wouldn't affect you at this point.

OK, I think someone forgot to include a boss key on Lv. 6 or forgot to put a push block flag to find it......

Also, under combo bug on the 3 Red Darknut room above the push a block one direction to go another room (22 I think?)

-James

Fixed. Thanks. :3

I apologize off hand if I seem callout-ish here Chris, but c'mon man. I'm in Level 7 and I've faced 3 out of the last 4 levels with Goriyas, Stalfos 2, and easy enemies. I have only seen one new enemy so far and the difficulty is seriously lacking, almost as easy as the 1st Quest. 2 was your hardest so far.

The audience of this is going to be hardcore NES gamers, like AlphaDawg, TSA, me, Gleeok, possibly Thor and Jeff Hansen, and TG. Do you really think THAT group is going to be impressed fighting like 2 Zols in Level 7, when in the 2nd Quest we had to fight a room of 6 Wizzrobes in Level 5? Also, out of the group I've played so far, 1 quest is New Quest difficulty level, the others are about James Quest difficulty level. The 3rd and 4th range between New Quest and James Quest difficulty level.

While I appreciate the honest-to-God NES approach (even better than mine), it's seriously lacking in the ingenuity, difficulty, and fun factor so far. If you're using Goriyas for the 4th time, why don't you do some new enemies things, like for example have another level of Stalfos that takes a few more hits and does 4 Hearts of Damage with its sword, or increase the Poison Heart drop rate on Blue Goriyas and Blue Darknuts so you can't use them as Heart Machines? Or maybe a few Goriya 3's, SOMETHING to spice it up. Right now I've 1-gamed your quest through 7 because of tripping over a Poison Heart and that's it.

Another suggestion might be making Level 5 Green/Blue and using the Vires as break-rules, and make Level 7 gold/blue and doing some Wizzrobe stuff in it.

7 needs a makeover in enemies, badly. I know you can do better, Titan's Quest: Director's Cut had bite to it.

BUGS:
Room 13 in 7 (4 Red Bubbles, 1 block), door does not open Block->Shutters (no flag on the block).
Your Blue Aquamentus doesn't seem to appear, seems glitched, and doesn't appear normally (boss room). You need to check that.

Also, for the record:
Lv. 4 is where a level in the 3rd Quest is, and my Level 3 is (but there's not much else you can do with the raft, so..... oh well)
Level 7 is where Level 3 is in the 4th Quest.
Nice job on Lv. 3's placement, about time someone took care of that damn tree not being Money Making!, lol.
-James

Done. If some enemies in 7, 8 and 9 should look familiar, don't let that fool you.
That's as far as I'll go. I'm not making a killfest here.

MUCH BETTER, it's not a killfest either, though the creepy crawlies are still there.

Bugs:
Still the 2 I reported before:
Room 13 in 7 (4 Red Bubbles, 1 block), door does not open Block->Shutters (no flag on the block).
Your Blue Aquamentus doesn't seem to appear, seems glitched, and doesn't appear normally (boss room). You need to check that.

New bug:
Vires don't split properly. They split into nothing. Check the death attribute value.

Also, slight suggestion: Any way you can add bats over Keese in the later levels, if you're up to it? Just be sure to adjust the damage for them.

I still love 'ya Chris, don't think I'm mad at you or anything. I just had to be honest with 'ya, but it's a little depressing when I romp through a dungeon with 200+ Rupees and don't take a hit the entire way through and it's late-game. I apologize again if I hurt you before, it was not my intention.

-James

Room 13's left door is a one-way shutter. The room you want is a couple rooms down from there.
Aquamentus is now fixed. Somehow or another, I'd set it to Dodongo type. (EDIT: Yup, it's fixed)
Vires are fixed. Didn't add in the death attribute.
I don't see much need for editing all the Keese. There are enough hard enemies already.

7 is now an A instead of a C.

Just might want to change the color of the Red Wizzrobes guarding the Wand to something else because they're a new enemy, otherwise, much better.

BTW, don't know if this is a bug (it's certainly not game-breaking), but the entrance to Level 7 is a cave instead of a stair. Is this intentional?

-James

Yeah, I saw that cave thing. Already fixed.
I deliberately didn't change their color. Better to let the player be surprised.

You might want to change the level colors now with the change. I think yellow/blue would be more appropriate for Lv. 7, while Green/Blue for 5.

Let me know what'cha think.

Edit: LOL. We think alike. Lv. 8: There are secrets where fairies DO live. I put Lv. 5 there in my quest.

Edit 2: Magic Manhanda nice mini-boss.

BUG: Lake doesn't dry for Lv. 8

-James

For some reason, I can't get the lake to dry. I set the palette change and dry lake flags, and nothing.

Use brown water. It's green water right now, that's why.

-James

OK, I'm done.

First of all, creepy crawly: NE corner room, are those statues really just for decoration?

Second of all: Congratulations on Level 9. It hit the spot on difficulty, and kept me using Potions.

Suggestions:
1. Have the Darknuts throw swords, not magic. It just seems weird right now, once again, your call.
2. Maybe, just maybe, Ganon should take 8 hits instead of 4? Up to you on that.
3. Nice take on the Patra. I think that's going to be one of the most modified enemies throughout the entries. I personally like my shooter one the best, but that's just personal bias.
4. Lv. 5: Green/Blue. Lv. 7: Gold/Blue

OK, now for the score, if I was grading you:

Difficulty: 80/100.
Lv. 9 is right where it should be, but the quest is kinda easy otherwise. This may or may not be a good thing considering a lot of the quests coming in are James Quest level at the moment. I personally like the revamp to 7.

NEX authenticity: 90/100
I think you need an old man or something warning about the deviation of enemy groups. If you don't you might offend the strictly NES crowd. Otherwise, very stongly put to the NES, no real chances taken.

Fun Factor: 70/100
I think you need to make some other enemies who are not bosses and strong suits. This is supposed to be an enemy editor exercise. While things like CJC's Lizalfos are crazy, I think there could be a little better done and some earlier weaker enemies created. Also, very surprised you didn't use Bats anywhere, that kinda let me down.

Overall: 80/100. Good job. I liked it overall.

BTW, overall play style:
1 death on 1 with a Poison Heart. :(
2 deaths on Level 9.
Heavy segmentation due to bombs and running out of potions in 9
Overall count: 3 deaths

-James

Downloaded. Going to give it a try tonight.

You're going to need to make room to display the boss key in the dungeon subscreen. A lot of players will be frustrated if you don't, trying to remember if they got the key.

Done. Thanks. :3

Just started on this one. Explored a bit, went into level 1. Only one small issue to report so far: Level 1, dark room floor still shows up. Need to change the floor tiles to CSet 3 so it'll be dark.

Ah, thank you. Fixed. :3

Voting is now open for this quest. Vote for as many categories as you please, but be sure to vote before tax day!

Also, please post in this thread stating which categories you selected and explaining why you picked those categories.

Okay, this will be my first completed 5th quest entry.

Difficulty: 85/100 The difficulty was pretty spot on throughout the quest. Level 9 held me for a bit, but other than that, nice work.

NES Authenticity: 95/100 I didn't take much offense to the deviation from the enemy groups. Where it was done, it was done tastefully. The 5 marks down are for the Patra in Level 9, which by no means was a bad thing.

Fun Factor: 90/100 I had a pretty good time playing this quest. It was challenging enough for me, and didn't drag on.

Overall: 90/100 Great job. I don't have much to reference by, as this is my first beaten 5th entry, but this will likely get my vote. It is fun without deviating too much from the NES Formula, and challenging enough.

This is the 2nd '5th quest' I'm working on. Rather easy for me: the only things I'm missing right now are the whereabouts of the Magic Sword (stolen?) and one of the Heart Containers.

Curiously enough, I never found the wooden boomerang. Got the magic one in Dungeon 3.

Working through Dungeon 5 now, and I think I know where Dungeon 6 is. Already found 9. Need to find 7 and 8.


UPDATE: Found the Magic Sword and 5th HC. When I found what I thought would be Dungeon 6, I actually found Dungeon 7. 7 led me to 8, and 8 would have led me to 9 had I not already found it. But the location of Dungeon 6 has me completely stymied.


2ND UPDATE: I cannot believe that I would make the same mistake TWICE!!!

The first '5th quest' I completed, I discovered Dungeon 8 before I should have, then completely forgot that I had found it when I needed to go back, aimlessly looking for a new opening.

Well, I did it again! I found Dungeon 6 a while ago, and completely forgot about it! (Ironically enough, the clue to find 6 DOES work for 7!)

Yeesh!

Just completed this quest. My thoughts.

I found the first eight dungeons rather easy, but Number 9? She's a dandy, that Number 9! Very challenging, with few areas to pick up hearts. I particularly like the puzzling way to find the Red Ring and path to Ganon. And doni't think I didn't notice the jacked-up stats of the Wizzrobes.

Not sure I would have found Dungeon 7, had I not stumbed upon it while 'looking' for 6. (I actually think a clue like "From Arrow to 6, from 6 to 7" would work better.)

Touching message at the end. (29 is too young an age.)

One big problem: TOO MANY KEYS!

(Both the quests I've completed used one same dungeon spot. I guess there's only so many places to place them.)

Nicely done.

I finished this quest a while ago but haven't yet had time to give it a proper review. (Actually, I've found everything except the silver arrow, but too much time has passed for me that I'm not really inclined to go back and find it...sorry). Below are my thoughts.

I really liked your Titan's quest and had high expectations for your entry. For the most part, those expectations were met. The quest was very fun to play. The first half of the game was pretty easy (perhaps disappointingly so), though this is adequately compensated by the difficulty of the last three dungeons.

The beginning dungeons are easy not only due to the enemies, but also since it's possible to finish the first 3 dungeons with an extra key in each. This loosens the exploration of subsequent dungeons.

The poison hearts were a nice feature (if somewhat frustrating) that kept me from mindlessly plowing through enemy groups.

One minor gripe is the spreading out of secrets. I know there's only so many places to hide things, but there was a lot of concentration in the southwest woods. One screen west of Quest1-Level3 contains a sword, and one screen west of that contains a dungeon, which is one screen south of the first dungeon. Then two screens further north (Quest1-Level7) contains the blue ring. All are uncovered by the time you have the whistle. Not a huge dealbreaker though.

Love the location of level 9 (imo, that screen is the best spot for placing the final dungeon).

You also get high marks for NES-authenticity and the use of the enemy editor. The new mini-bosses in level 8 are implemented well (ahhh can't use bombs on the orange manhandla!), and the more powerful darknuts and wizzrobes work well in their respective enemy groups.

Overall, this quest is a pretty solid entry, and I expect to enjoy replaying it (and finding the silver arrow) assuming that it's one of the final contenders.

level 5 - from entrance, one left, one down. there is a blue bubble that doesn't cure the red bubble sword jinx. item bubble by mistake?

edit: level 7 - return passageway from boss area puts you in a block. going from blue wizzrobe room to green vire room.

just completed this quest. 6 deaths and a few resets during level 9 (~15 deaths total). as many have said the quest is pretty easy, except for level 9, who's difficulty feels unbalanced with the rest of the quest - although once you know where to go and which battles can be avoided isn't that bad. its a bit harder than the 2nd quest. i really enjoyed the level design - some of my favourites of the contest. and it feels really NES authentic. the poison heart gimmick is really cool, though I agree with Nightmare that increasing the drop rates for certain enemies might be a good addition. i disliked the stronger wizzrobes being the same colour as their regular strength counterparts, and the shooting darknuts would make more sense throwing swords.

other than tossing some more or harder enemies in the earlier levels, i think the main issue is that it is easy to upgrade your equipment early. if you could limit when the player grabs the blue ring, letter, and upgraded swords to later in the game the earlier dungeons would be a lot more difficult, and would balance the game a bit more.

all your old man clues were really cryptic, i don't think i understood the meaning of any of them - but had no issue finding anything. i thought the stalfos clue was to do with a maze path (ESES), but never found a corresponding maze.

i would have liked to see some more upgraded bosses, and was disappointed with a few levels where the dungeon boss was the same as the dungeon mini-boss - at least bump the power of the main boss if they are going to be the same enemy type.

overall i had a good time playing, and if the difficulty was turned up a notch i'd see this being a strong contender.

I'd probably second that the Wizzrobes need to be a different color, though I thought he repowered all of them in every level, SO........

-James

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

I'd probably second that the Wizzrobes need to be a different color, though I thought he repowered all of them in every level, SO........

-James

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just rechecked.
level 7 yellow wizzrobes 1 hit and blue 3 hits with magic sword.
level 9 yellow wizzrobes 2 hits and blue 4 hits with magic sword.

this is with the latest version of the quest.

Finished this one yesterday. my comments by category:
Riddler: many of the clues I still haven't figured out the meaning of. Several I only figured out in retrospect. Reading the intro bits in this thread, I now realize some referred to earlier quests, but since I don't have those memorized, those wouldn't have helped me. "the most powerful sword has been stolen" made me think something special would be needed for the magic sword (or that there would be a level 4 sword). A little disappointing there. I actually found the magic sword before the white sword.

Difficulty: fairly easy for me until level 9, which jumped in difficulty greatly. I think the ramping could have been done better. A little disappointed in Ganon being normal, after everything else was pumped up.

creatures: Not much new until the end. As mentioned above, swords instead of magic would have made more sense for the grey darknuts.

dungeons: Too many "search for the bombable wall" moments. Even with 20 bomb capacity, I still had to leave several dungeons to get more. I didn't see any "secret where fairies do live" hints- was there one in the map that I missed? I literally searched every burnable/bombable spot on the overworld before found dungeon 8. I had used the whistle everywhere I didn't find anything the other ways, but I didn't bother whistling on a fairy lake that had one. I won't make that mistake in future quests.

NES feel: pretty good. Nothing special though.

Overall: 2.65/5

I thought about changing the Wizzrobe colors, but felt it would be better to have the surprise factor.

Thanks for your honesty, and I'm glad you all enjoyed playing! :D