-
The Story of the Woman With No Authority
So Baylor requires all students to spend 2 semesters in what they call "Chapel". It is a one hour long, twice a week, very stupid church service. I find it offensive and ridiculous that I am required to experience the propaganda of the local mystics, so I protest by blatantly playing my gameboy during the whole "service".
So today this fat idiotic lady comes up to me during church and says, "Would you please put that away?" I smile and inform her, "No." And I go back to playing Final Fantasy IV Advance. She then says, "Excuse me..." to which I do not respond because I find her irritating. She tries to get my attention several more times, before I find that she is making my game less enjoyable, so I turn around and say, "Is this against the rules? Will I be forced to not only be here, but to pay attention as well?"
Her: "On the first day of chapel, they explained that you must pay attention."
Me: "Oh, well I had my ear plugs in on the first day, and I was taking a nap so I didn't hear that." [I go back to playing Final Fantasy. She is starting to get angry.]
Her: "What's your name?"
Me: "I am not required to tell you my name."
Her: [getting more angry] "Do you want me to call campus police?"
Me: "Do you want to call campus police and tell them that someone is playing gameboy in church? I might go with you because that would be funny."
Her: "We can take that away from you, you know."
Me: "I suppose if a couple of your staff held me down and stole it you could, but legally you cannot. You are not a police officer, and I am not breaking a law. This is not a class and you are not a teacher. It is a religious event that I am forced to be at."
Her: "Tell me your name."
I say nothing. I go back to playing gameboy. She storms off. I can see that she is waiting by the entrance to get me after the service so I can't scan my student ID and be marked present, so I wait until it is really crowded and chaotic and I leave through another door.
She figured I would be one of those 18 year old freshman, all scared and intimidated by either her weight or her authority (or both), but really I am a 25 year old computer programmer who is too old and too experienced to be intimidated by someone with more bark than bite. I can smell a lack of authority from a mile away, so she can kiss my heathen, godless butt.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
That's ridiculous. From you saying that you were using earplugs I don't see how you are disturbing anyone else, so why does she give a fuck? You don't want to be there, it's shit that you have to be, but you made the best of it by simply ignoring everything instead of causes an disturbance during the service.
I can tell that this lady would cry foul and cause all sorts of problems in class if she were forced to attend an atheist event. I hate Christians people that think it's okay to force their views on others because it's Christianity.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Heck Bel... ya shoulda called the campus police for her <lol>. Just because you're forced to attend something doesn't mean you have to pay attention.
And the ONLY reason I could see that she'd have a valid reason to complain would be IF you had the gameboy sounds played way up loud (or even audible at all). You can play it with headphones on right?
Edit: ok you did say you were wearing headphones... sorry :) She had no business bothering you!
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
the sounds were completely off, and the gameboy itself was held inside of my backpack so the light wouldn't disturb anyone. She just wanted to force me to observe her primitive ritual and I refused because I'm paying to be there and I know she has no power because she's getting paid $6 an hour to walk around and pretend to be useful.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Oh man, a gameboy would have made my years of church going bearable. As of right now, when I'm forced to go I just look around for hot catholic girls.
Anyway, you're forced to go to church by your college? Wow, that would really piss me off. Any hot girls?
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Yeah, I endured my years of church by imagining I had superpowers.
Seriously, though, you have my respect. I'd never have the nerve to stand up like that.(But then I'm a total coward, so...)
Funny story though.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Wasn't she causing more of a disturbance than you playing Game Boy? Doesn't she realize that she's in a college and that petty stuff doesn't matter? Some people . . .
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
The fact that an institute of learning is forcing people to attend religious services is damn near the most retarded thing I've ever heard of.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
? You are required by your college to attend a religious service? I'v enever heard of that before...
:shrug: Well, If you don't want to be there (especially if it's not your system of beliefs), but you're forced to attend, then I guess as long as you don't disturb anyone, you can do other stuff to pass the time. Which brings me to my next point:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beldaran
the sounds were completely off, and the gameboy itself was held inside of my backpack so the light wouldn't disturb anyone. She just wanted to force me to observe her primitive ritual and I refused
0_o Then how the heck did she manage to catch you?
Well, I can't fault you for what you were doing, but...>_> maybe you could have really been more discreet, and said something along the lines of "It's not my faith, I'm only here because the college requires me to be here." More polite + it would possibly get her off your back easier and more effectively.
>_> and am I the only person in this topic who actually enjoys attending church? (whenever I'm not busy at all, which is like, once every four months)
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkDragoonX
The fact that an institute of learning is forcing people to attend religious services is damn near the most retarded thing I've ever heard of.
Yeah I don't get that either but the fat lady was funny.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Oh the tyranny of attending a private Christian college as an atheist!
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Fat ladies are always funny!
Forcing you to attend church as part of your education is a stupid idea and I support you all the way in your Final Fantasy-ing. Seriously, it's like trying to force your beliefs onto someone else, and you wouldn't do that individually, so what makes Baylor think that doing it in great big groups makes it alright?
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Baylor is run by tribal mystics. My reasons for going here for school are logical, it's completely out of my hands that the administration is intellectually bankrupt.
It's probably the most obnoxious place I could have chosen for school, but it was convenient at the time and I'm getting a rather good education, so whatever.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Eh I could troll but why bother.
Seriously requiring chapel is pretty dumb but didn't you say Baylor was a big theological college? I'm not really sure but I swear you said that one time.
It better not be one of those hippy non-denominational services either. If it is, you seriously ought to prepare some kind of argument that there are allegorical themes in video games because I am almost certain you could convince someone to let you give a sermon.
Then you could do whatever but I suggest demonstrating what happens when you mix cesium with the holy water.
*edit* also the lady is dumb unless there's some serious campus policy that you must pay attention in the service she needs to lighten up some. I believe if Jesus were in there he'd probably give you a stern look but thank you afterwards for at least keeping the volume down. Then you guys could form a rock band! Normally band names that are too long fail but I'm thinking "Beldaran and his Mystical Pal who May Not Even Exist" would do.
Seriously though have fun fighting the system; best-case scenario she gets frustrated and gives up, worst-case scenario she manages to identify you and suddenly there are problems with all your campus paperwork. It's not really a religion thing either, I complained to housing about a lot of stuff wrong with my room for my first semesters and kept getting successively crappier rooms; the last few semesters I just dealt with it and only called them to ask when to send money and my last dorm room was in the best dorm short of the slightly-less-than-condo new dorms they built for rich kids.
I mean I guess what I'm trying to say it's not their fault you made a choice for which I am unable to choose a suitable analogy. I'm thinking just one day it'd be cool to see that the statement p -> q where p is "Person is an atheist" and q is "Person is a jerk with superiority complex" doesn't hold, but so far it seems to me that an air of superiority is a defining characteristic of atheism. Which is odd because "holier-than-thou" is an analogous characteristic of Christians that drives people to atheism.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
I mean I guess what I'm trying to say it's not their fault you made a choice for which I am unable to choose a suitable analogy. I'm thinking just one day it'd be cool to see that the statement p -> q where p is "Person is an atheist" and q is "Person is a jerk with superiority complex" doesn't hold, but so far it seems to me that an air of superiority is a defining characteristic of atheism. Which is odd because "holier-than-thou" is an analogous characteristic of Christians that drives people to atheism.
I don't think I'm better than religious people. I just think religious people are diseased with a corrupt and evil doctrine of anti-intellectualism and the world would be better off if none of them existed. It's not "holier-than-thou", it's "lucky to not be stupid enough to consider myself holy".
You know what's arrogant? Thinking the creator of the universe has a personal interest in you and has communicated to you personally all the secrets to moral living and that anyone with a different opinion is wrong. That's fucking arrogant. So you can blow it out your mystical ass that I am the arrogant one.
Don't mistake my contempt for religion for arrogance. It's just plain old contempt.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Bel, this thread was fine without out your opinion on religion, did you really have to force it to go down this road?
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phattonez
Bel, this thread was fine without out your opinion on religion, did you really have to force it to go down this road?
Beldaran is my hero because he wields the amazing power to literally force topics to go down the road of his choosing. I'm not sure I've ever come across anyone else with that ability.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
I'm pretty sure Atma started it with his highly scientific notion that "all atheists are jerks".:googly:
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
I'm pretty sure that you didn't incite him when you called it a "primitive ritual."
You could make a case for not starting it; I didn't respond even though I didn't like it, but you're not completely blameless.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Worshiping god is a primitive ritual. It was invented by primitive people, tens of thousands of years ago when they thought the sun was a magic being that walked across the ceiling of a giant magical dome everyone lived in. Religion was born of total ignorance, and it continues to give ignorance a place to call home.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
I wish I had a gameboy when I was a kid. :( I had to ammuse myself by drawing stick figures on those 3x5 cards with those crappy unsharpened pencils they had....
Quote:
"all atheists are jerks".
This is just not true. I believe religion has advanced a bit in a decade or two, so maybe if you payed attention you'd learn how to cast lv1 magic spells....
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Eh it's not worth a wall of words to discuss this; you put forth a laughable effort at debate and frankly I've seen more logical arguments from people that think the reptilians are in control so I don't see why I should lay a bed of logic down.
I never asserted that my observation was a scientific fact. I stated that I have observed this relationship, and I would like to find a contradiction.
Some people attend engineering colleges for engineering degrees. You attend the largest Baptist university in the world, but obviously there are compelling reasons because any time someone questions your choice you are quick to state you had a good reason.
You hate religion. You attend the largest Baptist university in the world. Obviously there's some reason for this because any time someone points this out you get incensed and point out you had very good reasons for joining an institution that is fundamentally against your worldview.
You constructed a straw man argument and attacked fanatical Christians who believe their "rebirth" makes them special. That's great, I agree they are worthy of contempt. For this attack to hold, you must show that I have asserted I am superior to you because of my religion, and you will not find this. Instead I assert I am superior to you because I can admit when I am wrong and avoid using fallacies to make a point*.
The lady was being a jerk and I think you had the right to assert your right to play game boy during the service, particularly since you had the volume muted. However, you handled the situation with a lack of tact then rushed home to brag to all your nerd friends about having a backbone in a situation where you were really at no risk. You made a crucial error in your nerd fantasy though:
Once your anonymity was threatened, all trace of a backbone disappeared. If she caught hold of your ID, suddenly she might be able to do something about you. There have been plenty of people in similar situations in the past, but Rosa Parks didn't duck out a side door and Linda McCorvey didn't give in to the notion that anyone had the right to force her to bear her unborn child. Instead of facing a situation that might escalate into a case that questions how much a private institution can force its students to be immersed in religious activity, brave Sir Robin bravely ran away.
Then you rushed to the internet forums to gain the admiration of your peers for being strong when you are safe and weak when you are threatened.
Anonymous, you showed your true colors today. What's your plan for when she's looking for you the next time you attend chapel? I suggest a mask or perhaps you should pretend to be a Muslim and wear a large turban.
*I have, quite frequently, resorted to ad hominem and several other fallacies (in fact I end on that note in this post). I do my best to make it clear when I am attempting to logically prove a point and when I am informally attacking you or your beliefs. Additionally, if you would ever call me out on a specific fallacy I would admit it was a fallacy and point out that I stated as such. You, on the other hand, appear to believe you are above using valid and sound logic to debate. A curious characteristic in a scientist indeed.
*edit* Also while we are discussing primitive rituals, what do you think man believed before he came up with the concept of deities? That's right, I am proposing that atheism predates religion. It was invented before man had language to express concepts such as "sun" and "spirit". Many cultures that have been largely unaffected by modern civilization still have very basic spiritual beliefs that refuse to acknowledge any form of deity. This suggests that before formal religion, there was no religion. Since you seem to support the notion that anything primitive is inferior, where does that put you and your beliefs?
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gleeok
This is just not true. I believe religion has advanced a bit in a decade or two, so maybe if you payed attention you'd learn how to cast lv1 magic spells....
If I could go to Church and learn a Lvl1 magic skill, you wouldn't have to ask me to know where I'd be on Sunday morning.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
If I could go to Church and learn a Lvl1 magic skill, you wouldn't have to ask me to know where I'd be on Sunday morning.
Wherever you go to learn Lvl2 spells? Seriously all you need is Magic Missile it shouldn't take too many Sundays, and it gets better as you level!
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
Once your anonymity was threatened, all trace of a backbone disappeared. If she caught hold of your ID, suddenly she might be able to do something about you. There have been plenty of people in similar situations in the past, but Rosa Parks didn't duck out a side door and Linda McCorvey didn't give in to the notion that anyone had the right to force her to bear her unborn child. Instead of facing a situation that might escalate into a case that questions how much a private institution can force its students to be immersed in religious activity, brave Sir Robin bravely ran away.
Are you seriously trying to put him down for doing the smart thing in this particular situation? He specificly did not want to make a ringamarole out of the situation, but at the same time knew his rights and called her bluff. He was also smart enough to outwit the possible wrath of said vindictive woman. And he also knows that he's probably not going to get any sympathy from the administration, and probably doesn't have the financial resources to escelate it any higher. Ever heard of picking your battles? And do you honestly expect every athiest who chronicles his epxeriences to be the next Rosa Parks? I say that he played his cards right.
Like you mention later, there is a very real possability that Mistress Morbidly Obese will be back next time with backup. He'll cross that bridge when he comes to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
*edit* Also while we are discussing primitive rituals, what do you think man believed before he came up with the concept of deities? That's right, I am proposing that atheism predates religion. It was invented before man had language to express concepts such as "sun" and "spirit". Many cultures that have been largely unaffected by modern civilization still have very basic spiritual beliefs that refuse to acknowledge any form of deity. This suggests that before formal religion, there was no religion. Since you seem to support the notion that anything primitive is inferior, where does that put you and your beliefs?
Come on Atma, you can do better than this. I highly doubt that Bel's reasons for disliking christianity stem from how old it is.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
Wherever you go to learn Lvl2 spells? Seriously all you need is Magic Missile it shouldn't take too many Sundays, and it gets better as you level!
I have a level 45 Mr.T clone who can wield a Quantum Umbrella. Needless to say, it'll come back around when the dimensional moderators find out.
On subject, I think that this debate is giving me a raging clue. The clue is that power is ascertained through study. :D
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
you either like snow or you like Christianity, you can't have both
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lilith
you either like snow or you like Christianity, you can't have both
>_> You can if you're Canadian.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
I believe if Jesus were in there he'd probably give you a stern look but thank you afterwards for at least keeping the volume down. Then you guys could form a rock band! Normally band names that are too long fail but I'm thinking "Beldaran and his Mystical Pal who May Not Even Exist" would do.
I seriously lol'd here.
I'm going to link my dawkins-trolling pals to this thread as it's quintessential Beldar"I'm attending a Baptist school with a bunch of fat trogs in Texas/all religions are stupid"an. These views on ALL RELIGION sound suspiciously like views on Baptist Christianity's ~* TRIBAL PARADIGMS *~
also happy rosh hashanah
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phattonez
Bel, this thread was fine without out your opinion on religion, did you really have to force it to go down this road?
Honestly, now, the topic of the thread is how Beldaran plays his GBA in chapel because he doesn't believe in it. Are you really saying that he forced his own thread in a direction that it clearly was already headed?
Bel, I think you might consider a little patience with religious folk. If you had put your GBA away and toughed it out for the rest of the session, and then talked to her calmly and quietly in private when it was over, it might have been better for everyone. (Not that I don't love to picture this scenario, because I totally agree with you on where you're coming from. I would be playing my GBA too. [Actually I'd probably be playing my DS.])
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
I suspect I'd just read a book, maybe going so far as to put a sleeve from a bible over it so as to avoid raising suspicion. But that's just me, since I don't like to draw attention to myself.
Honestly, we all know Beldaran's views on religion. Why must we constantly challenge him when we know he won't change his mind? If he wants to think of religion as a waste of time, that's his prerogative. Just let the heathen be :p
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
No it wouldn't... People like that are authoritative morons. She gets off on pretending that she has some sort of power. Religion or no, we've got to take a stand against these backwards bozos who think that the sun rises and sets at their command.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
My stand is that Beldaran did exactly what he should have.
I wish I had been there to have done that. I get a big rush out of challenging authority in such a calm, firm, and confident manner as Beldaran did.
I can just imagine that I'd be high on the experience all day, and the woman would be silently stewing over her failure for the whole day. What could be better?
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
I can just imagine that I'd be high on the experience all day, and the woman would be silently stewing over her failure for the whole day. What could be better?
Exactly. It made the whole rest of my day a little bit brighter. :)
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
No, as much as I hate religion too, I side with Atma here. Your choice of college is a rather weird one for somebody with such sentiments towards religion. If there was a particular reason to go, such as options you could not find at other institutions(less religious ones), attending church services should have been considered an obligation you would be bound to in exchange for the benefits offered in that institution. Yeah, its a stupid requirement, but surely you knew before you enrolled you would be made to attend church. But instead you're being a dick about it and essentially not living up to your libertarian notions of contract fulfillments.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AlexMax
Are you seriously trying to put him down for doing the smart thing in this particular situation? He specificly did not want to make a ringamarole out of the situation, but at the same time knew his rights and called her bluff. He was also smart enough to outwit the possible wrath of said vindictive woman. And he also knows that he's probably not going to get any sympathy from the administration, and probably doesn't have the financial resources to escelate it any higher. Ever heard of picking your battles? And do you honestly expect every athiest who chronicles his epxeriences to be the next Rosa Parks? I say that he played his cards right.
Actually if he were picking his battles, he'd have put his GBA away and not made a big deal out of it. He was gung-ho about protecting his rights so long as there was no danger of negative consequences, and as soon as it became clear that his actions might lead to conflict he ducked out. He started the fight because he thought the woman was helpless, then tucked tail when it turned out she did indeed have teeth. A rational person would learn from this experience that one should only start a conflict if one is willing to face the consequences, but no doubt Beldaran will find himself in the same situation again.
It's really funny that so many people are willing to "stand up for their rights" and get applause and back-pats from other nerds, but it's always in a case where (1) anonymity is guaranteed (2) the right that is being fought for is trivial (3) the target of the "fight" is a powerless individual. Seriously this reads just like the thread about the guy who is suing whatever electronics store because they dared to try and block his exit until they had checked his receipt. The characteristics are all there; the store clerk was some pimply-faced college kid who was doing his job, he had no idea who this weird dude with an attitude was and whether he really had the power to stop him from leaving the store, and what kind of right is "leaving the store without proving I paid for my merchandise" that it's worth a legal battle to fight for?
Beldaran could certainly argue that his rights of religious freedom are much more important than in my example, and I agree this weakens my case. My response is to restate that he is attending the largest Baptist college in the world and upset because the college's Christian values clash with his beliefs.
Quote:
Like you mention later, there is a very real possability that Mistress Morbidly Obese will be back next time with backup. He'll cross that bridge when he comes to it.
Good thing you realized that he made an erroneous choice in picking his own battle. Maybe you could have skipped that paragraph above.
Quote:
Come on Atma, you can do better than this. I highly doubt that Bel's reasons for disliking christianity stem from how old it is.
I'm sorry my post didn't live up to your standards, but I can guarantee I can spell the words "specifically", "rigmarole", "escalate", "atheist", "experiences", and "possibility" correctly. You can do better than that. I'm disappointed in you, but I guess I shouldn't expect much more from a YCS regular.
Also I'm certain Beldaran has other reasons, but he's used the word "primitive" quite a bit in this thread and I felt like it would be topical to point out that Christianity is not very primitive when compared to more ancient systems of religion.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Okay, this is just getting retarded. It's a mildly entertaining story about a woman who wants to look better than college kids. No debate, no religion, no stance for civil rights, just a mildly entertaining story. This thread reminds me of the kids in English class who try to look smart, won't shut up, and say things like "I believe that this character was trying to . . . he should have . . . "
Just my two cents.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
Atma get a fucking life and stop making retarded assumptions about me. I just wanted to keep playing gameboy and I didn't feel like listening to that idiot lady.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
All I can say is that I'm eager to hear from Beldaran how the next session of Chapel goes.
This is really exciting because the fat lady is going to be there again. I want to name her Mrs. Conservo. I don't know how Beldaran is going to turn this in his favor, but I'm confident that he will.
-
Re: The Story of the Woman With No Authority
I'm just not sure whose team I want to be on in this little skirmish. :(