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Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Note: I haven't finished Hero of Dreams, and in fact have only managed to reach the... [counts on fingers]... fifth dungeon's front door. If any of the following assertions about its interpretation of Zelda continuity are counteracted later in the game, please accept my apologies. I agree that it's a remarkable quest, and I'm impressed by its attempts to position itself within the official Zelda storyline. However, I count the following flaws in its interpretation:
It is said in Hero of Dreams that the Hero of Courage "did something that no other hero could" - completely destroy Ganon. Bah, I say! This statement disregards three aspects of the Zelda storyline.
* Firstly, it is stated in Zelda 2 that Ganon, far from being destroyed forever, could be simply restored with a sprinkle of Link's blood on his ashes. This is important when compared to the third aspect.
* Secondly, it rewrites the Hero of Light's defeat of Ganon, which used a silver arrowhead in a manner identical to that of Courage's. I presume this was because the author didn't know how to explain Ganon's reappearance in Legend of Zelda if he was apparantly "completely destroyed" in A Link to the Past.
* Which leads to the third aspect: the ability of Ganon to be revived even after his complete destruction is established in the Oracles (which can be fitted snugly into the continuity just after A Link to the Past - or, at a stretch, after Zelda 2) where a reincarnation of Twinrova temporarily brings back Ganon.
Thus, the logical thing to do is to insert a successful revival of Ganon into the Legend of Zelda backstory, rather than rewrite A Link to the Past's ending such that Ganon somehow survives.
Also: it is asked how the Hero of Light was able to defeat Ganon if Ganon held the full Triforce. The excuse given by HoD is that Ganon "was careless". I don't find this a compelling reason at all. Consider that the Hero of Light had both the Master Sword (which can resist the Triforce's magic) and the Moon Pearl (which can also resist the Triforce's magic.) The combination of both provides a much better (though still not completely airtight) reason why even the holder of the complete Triforce couldn't beat the Hero.
Also, there are inherent (and frankly insoluble) problems in including both the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light in the same game. You see, the Link to the Past interpretation of the Imprisoning War differs in one important respect from the Ocarina of Time interpretation of the Imprisoning War: in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf only acquires the Triforce of Power, whereas in A Link to the Past's backstory he acquires the full Triforce.
This, I feel, is evidence enough to believe that halfway through Ocarina of Time the Zelda plotline "forks" away from the continuity set by A Link to the Past toward the continuity that Wind Waker would later pursue. (In fact, I might opine and say that the the battle against evil in which "the Hero of Time did not appear" may be the OoT-WW line's version of the events in A Link to the Past.)
But this, of course, means that the Hero of Light and the Hero of Winds cannot exist in the same history. Oh well.
It doesn't, however, necessarily mean that the Hero of Time is also incompatable with the Hero of Light - A Link to the Past's description simply holds that the Hylian Knights protected the sages, and doesn't eliminate the possibility that the Hero was, or was among, them.
(No, I don't reckon that the storylines of Twilight Princess or any other games are going to come storming in and reunite the forked continuity lines, because it's unequivocal that A Link to the Past's backstory is intended to be the OoT Imprisoning War.)
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
You really know your Zelda timeline... and knowledge of every game in the Legend of Zelda series...
Look at the quests of ZC...
These are all custom made Zelda quests (Oh wait... doh!). These continuity problems can be found in just about every single other zelda quest out there. Correction: THOUSANDS could be found in just about every ZC quest made... except for the remakes of the original, second, and third quests. But of course... considering this is considered one of the greatest quests of all time, I suppose it's completely fair and reasonable to criticize it for its continuity problems.
Then again... when a person creates his or her own ZC quest that has a storyline to it that pertains to the original storyline, it's like creating your own fanfiction. For me, just to pretty much avoid all problems with continuities, I have my quest called "The Alternate Hyrule", which will revolve around well... an alternate version of Hyrule. However, it will still have continuity problems... But again: fanfic. In a fanfic, you can practically do whatever you want, because it's not going to be part of the real storyline of the LoZ series. It's not just your own little book... it's your game. Design it however you want.
Hmm... you'll probably find more continuity problems as you progress towards the end of the game. However, you will find several explanations to one or two of these problems... maybe more, but whatever.
EDIT:
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Originally Posted by _L_
The excuse given by HoD is that Ganon "was careless".
That's Shoelace's way of saying Ganon sucks (Bloody pig). Seriously, he got killed by freaking deku nuts in OoT! I'm not kidding!
But yeah... your reason would probably be better and more fitting, as Ganon didn't suck in ALttP and TWW.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Originally Posted by WindStrike
That's Shoelace's way of saying Ganon sucks (Bloody pig). Seriously, he got killed by freaking deku nuts in OoT! I'm not kidding!
Hey, I liked the Deku Nuts. ;) I hope they return in Twilight Princess.
Anyway, _L_, these are... custom quests. Of course they won't fit the Zelda timeline. Also, Nintendo themselves said that there is no official Zelda timeline!
But that was an interesting read... But I appreciate how you tried to disprove HoD's fit into the timeline. But none of them do.
Let's just say each quest is an alternative to the original Zelda. ;)
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Originally Posted by
Pineconn
But none of them do.
What! Zelda 2 is a direct continuation of Zelda 1! Wind Waker was custom-measured to fit after OoT! And OoT was designed to be a pseudo-prequel to LttP! And you say that none of them do?
For more information, see Zelda Legends continuity theories. What I outlined in the top post is a variant on NOA Order with the Wind Waker storyline being parallel to LttP.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Wait and see the rest of the story for this quest before you make too many comments on it. It may fill in some of the holes. Most quests made here won't follow the actual timeline... probably because it's still disputed in many ways (see the thread in the Gaming forum). Shoelace did a nice job giving his quest some twists and turns that I found quite enjoyable. Just sit back and enjoy. I personally am not that worried about story continuity when it comes to custom quests. After all, who says it's the same Link?
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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It is said in Hero of Dreams that the Hero of Courage "did something that no other hero could" - completely destroy Ganon. Bah, I say! This statement disregards three aspects of the Zelda storyline.
* Firstly, it is stated in Zelda 2 that Ganon, far from being destroyed forever, could be simply restored with a sprinkle of Link's blood on his ashes. This is important when compared to the third aspect.
* Secondly, it rewrites the Hero of Light's defeat of Ganon, which used a silver arrowhead in a manner identical to that of Courage's. I presume this was because the author didn't know how to explain Ganon's reappearance in Legend of Zelda if he was apparantly "completely destroyed" in A Link to the Past.
* Which leads to the third aspect: the ability of Ganon to be revived even after his complete destruction is established in the Oracles (which can be fitted snugly into the continuity just after A Link to the Past - or, at a stretch, after Zelda 2) where a reincarnation of Twinrova temporarily brings back Ganon.
Thus, the logical thing to do is to insert a successful revival of Ganon into the Legend of Zelda backstory, rather than rewrite A Link to the Past's ending such that Ganon somehow survives.
Well first off, I do mention that the legends have been past down for so long, that the legends may not be 100% true. But anyways, let me explain some things:
The Hero of Courage says that he did what no other Link has done. Some of the Hero's in the timeline have thought that they had killed Ganon, however, that wasn't the case. The Hero of Courage even says it himself, he can still be brought back by sacrifice. Go to the HoC and read that again, I do say Ganon can come back. So that means Ganon, can be killed, however, he can still be brought back to life if a person from the "Bloodline" being sacrificed. So, yes in my opinion Ganon did die in aLttP, just he was just brought back. :P
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Also: it is asked how the Hero of Light was able to defeat Ganon if Ganon held the full Triforce. The excuse given by HoD is that Ganon "was careless". I don't find this a compelling reason at all. Consider that the Hero of Light had both the Master Sword (which can resist the Triforce's magic) and the Moon Pearl (which can also resist the Triforce's magic.) The combination of both provides a much better (though still not completely airtight) reason why even the holder of the complete Triforce couldn't beat the Hero.
Also, there are inherent (and frankly insoluble) problems in including both the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light in the same game. You see, the Link to the Past interpretation of the Imprisoning War differs in one important respect from the Ocarina of Time interpretation of the Imprisoning War: in Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf only acquires the Triforce of Power, whereas in A Link to the Past's backstory he acquires the full Triforce.
I said the reason why Ganon was able to be defeated because he was careless. I do believe that. He had more power than Link, it is just he had thought just because he had the power, he wasn't going to be defeated by Link. He took Link to lightly.
About the Imprisoning War, that takes place before Ocarina of Time. I don't remember it saying Ganon got only the Triforce of Power. It doesn't say anything about it, from my understanding. All it said is that there was a war of all of the races that Ganon was a part of, and that Link's Mom, had been injured during the war. I don't remember anything being said about him getting the Triforce of Power. In Ocarina of Time itself, he got the Triforce of Power, however, it didn't say he did in the Imprisoning War. For all we know, Ganon could have got the whole Triforce during the Imprisoning War. Nintendo may still make a game called The Legend of Zelda: Imprisoning War and finally explain it. So, can you tell me where they said Ganon got the Triforce of Power in the Imprisoning War, in the game?
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This, I feel, is evidence enough to believe that halfway through Ocarina of Time the Zelda plotline "forks" away from the continuity set by A Link to the Past toward the continuity that Wind Waker would later pursue. (In fact, I might opine and say that the the battle against evil in which "the Hero of Time did not appear" may be the OoT-WW line's version of the events in A Link to the Past.)
But this, of course, means that the Hero of Light and the Hero of Winds cannot exist in the same history. Oh well.
It doesn't, however, necessarily mean that the Hero of Time is also incompatable with the Hero of Light - A Link to the Past's description simply holds that the Hylian Knights protected the sages, and doesn't eliminate the possibility that the Hero was, or was among, them.
Well since I don't remember them saying anything about him getting only the Triforce of Power in OoT, I didn't see the evidence for the "split" storyline. I just don't see a split storyline logical. The Hero of Time didn't show up that one time, I think because he wasn't alive anymore. Old age. Twilight Princess may connect it a little more by the way. But I am not sure, as the game hasn't came out.
I still think that the Hero of Light and Hero of Winds do exist in the same history. I am going to try to connect them even further, with my series. I am still not seeing any problems why my game to this theory.
As I said time in and time before. My grammar and spelling sucks bad. So I couldn't express my timeline to its fullest on HoD. However, towards the end of HoD, you will see things to start to make sense. I tried to keep this post clean of spoilers of HoD, so that you will not read any twists in the game. Also, my next games will explain a lot of things that I purposely left out. For example, the connection between LoZ and aLttP. So yes, I do explain Ganon's thing between those games.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
I thought the Imprisoning War was the 7 year period of time from when Ganon entered the Sacred Realm in OoT to when he was defeated by Link and trapped in another dimension by Zelda in the end of the game. If that is the case, then Ganon does only have the Triforce of Power based on the story Zelda tells Link right before she is captured and brought to Ganon's Tower. This is where she reveals herself to Link and identifies herself as the holder of the Triforce of Wisdom and Link as the holder of the Triforce of Courage as well.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
No way. I have to look up the Imprisoning War again. Weird if it was the 7 year period. Because I am playing the game again, right now actually. And I am up to the Shadow Temple, and there is no mention of the Imprisoning War being that 7 year period. I think the Imprisoning War has to be in a different time. I know OoT, as I was one of the goofs that was searching for the Triforce for 2 years. lol. But I don't remember this Imprisoning War thing being the 7 year period. Anybody confirm this?
Edit: By the way, doesn't aLttP's manual say that when Ganon got the Triforce. They made the Master Sword AFTER he had gotten it. Which wouldn't make sense because Link got the Master Sword before Ganon got the Triforce in OoT. It just doesn't fit. For all we know, the Imprisoning War could have been after OoT and TWW. It could be. Ganon could have came back and did that whole thing, with the getting trapped in the Golden Land again. Or like I said, it could have been before OoT. The sages could have been descendants, which would still make sense.
It is hard to debate about this storyline, because Nintendo most likely doesn't know how to piece it. However, I am 100% sure that Nintendo wouldn't go with the split storyline. It just doesn't make logical sense. It just doesn't seem like Zelda is the type of game that would have that. Plus, when the present day people find "the legends", how would they know about the legends that aren't even in their timeline. They would never know about it.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Originally Posted by
Shoelace
No way. I have to look up the Imprisoning War again. Weird if it was the 7 year period.
Well, it's called the Imprisoning War because it's the war that imprisoned Ganon in the Dark World.
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Because I am playing the game again, right now actually. And I am up to the Shadow Temple, and there is no mention of the Imprisoning War being that 7 year period.
Nobody in OoT calls that period the Imprisoning War because obviously the name "Imprisoning War" could only be applied after the fact.
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Edit: By the way, doesn't aLttP's manual say that when Ganon got the Triforce. They made the Master Sword AFTER he had gotten it.
Let's see what Zelda Legends says:
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Happily, this inconsistency does not exist in the Japanese version of ALttP. The Japanese manual says: "it could not be assumed that only a good person would get their hands on the Triforce. For that reason, the people of Hyrule were told by the gods to make something that would repulse any evil that may kidnap the Triforce: the blade of evil's bane." A few sentences later, the Japanese manual tells how, once Ganon came to power, "the Sages first had to search for the existence of the Master Sword and a hero to use it." So, according to the Japanese manual, the Master Sword was made long before Ganondorf's appearance, in case somebody evil got the Triforce. This accords with what we know about the Master Sword in OoT.
There you go: since this detail was invented by NOA, OoT's facts automatically overrule it.
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Well since I don't remember them saying anything about him getting only the Triforce of Power in OoT
What!?
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Originally Posted by Zelda, Ocarina of Time
The Triforce separated into three parts. Only the Triforce of Power remained in Ganondorf's hand.
So, to recap:
* End of OoT: Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power.
* Beginning of WW: Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power.
* Beginning of LttP: Ganon has the complete Triforce - and most importantly, he has not been released from the Dark World since the Imprisoning War.
This is my case for a split timeline.
To clarify:
Code:
OoT (first half)
/ \
LttP Imprisoning OoT (last half)
War |
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LttP WW backstory
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WW
However, Zelda Legends disagrees with me here!
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This issue might be more a matter of assumption. As my pal TSA likes to say, show me one quote in ALttP that says certainly and finally that Ganon has the whole Triforce in ALttP. Sure, it is implied, but it is never actually stated.
My response: this is silly. The complete Triforce appears at the end of the game after you defeat Ganon, therefore Ganon must have had all three pieces. But if you want evidence, look no further than those statues in Ganon's Tower, depicting Ganon holding three yellow triangles. The message is pretty clear.
Also, LttP never once makes a distinction between any one of the individual Triforces, and always refers to the complete Triforce. To selectively decide when and how it uses the word "Triforce" is overstepping one's bounds of interpretation.
Source: A Defense of the OoT/ALttP Connection.
EDIT: Even more arguments (but not all that I agree with) for a split timeline can be found HERE.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Well since I don't remember them saying anything about him getting only the Triforce of Power in OoT
I worded that wrong. I know that Ganon gets the Triforce of Power. Now, I forgot what I meant... I will edit if I remember.
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So, to recap:
* End of OoT: Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power.
* Beginning of WW: Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power.
* Beginning of LttP: Ganon has the complete Triforce - and most importantly, he has not been released from the Dark World since the Imprisoning War.
What I am thinking is Nintendo just screwed up the storyline, and is trying to fix it right now. Is there any evidence on the split storyline, because I just don't see it logical. Because again, there can be another Zelda game that fits the Beginning of aLttP.
Because you said yourself, Ganon hasn't been released from the Dark World since the Imprisoning war. But what about The Wind Waker and also TP?
Plus, the Triforce is in the Dark World (all of the pieces). In OoT, he only had one piece, so how did that work, if he never got out to get them?
Also, your split storyline doesn't make sense. You said it is split like this Adult Link and Child Link right. If the split storyline is true, then Ganon would have never got stuck in the Dark World right in Child Link's side. As Link went back to tell Zelda about Ganon's plot, thus the Triforce being stolen never happened. However, in the Wind Waker it says that he did, and he got out, and they called open the Hero of Time, but he never came. If Link had never done anything to be the Hero of Time and Ganon was never in the Dark World as Child Link, then WW can't follow.
Adult Link's story would have to be the one with the Imprisoning War in your theory and that is why WW can't follow because you said Ganon never got out. So that means WW is no where in the split storyline.
Anyways, it looks like we both have problems with your things. However, I did try my best to piece it together. I purposely left out the Imprisoning War out of HoD because I wanted to see what TP had to say about it. And I am going to continue to try to piece it together. I know not everyone is going to argee with my because the zelda storyline is very debateable. Anyways, hopefully you are enjoying the game so far and hopefully the ending with clear a little bit of things up. I need to get some sleep, I will check back later. :P
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Originally Posted by
Shoelace
Because again, there can be another Zelda game that fits the Beginning of aLttP.
Really? Because it's very clear that the only remembered history in LttP is that of the Imprisoning War.
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Because you said yourself, Ganon hasn't been released from the Dark World since the Imprisoning war. But what about The Wind Waker and also TP?
Like I said, it's an alternative timeline. It's the only way it makes sense.
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Also, your split storyline doesn't make sense. You said it is split like this Adult Link and Child Link right.
No, I don't say that Young Link only exists in the LttP line or that Adult Link only exists in the WW line. I just say that the LttP line and the WW line are identical up to the point that Ganondorf gets the Triforce.
In the OoT line, Ganondorf only gets the Triforce of Power, and then he returns from the Sacred Realm and rules Hyrule for 7 years.
In the LttP line, Ganondorf gets the full Triforce, but "Luckily, he couldn't figure out how to return to the Light World..." (Maiden in Swamp Palace, LttP) so the LttP Imprisoning War happens.
I can't explain how or why within the context of the events themselves, but that's where the split must be made.
...
To recap: there are two reasons why I say that the timeline must be split and that we can't just say that OoT's events overrule LttP's (which is probably what the OoT authors originally intended):
* LttP can only follow from OoT, and Ganon has the full Triforce in LttP. This is a plot hole that can't be argued out of.
* WW exists, and WW's backstory is incompatable with LttP's.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Really? Because it's very clear that the only remembered history in LttP is that of the Imprisoning War.
Well since In the Wind Waker no one remembered the time of Ocarina of Time, it can happen again. What I was saying was, there can be another war called The Imprisoning War called the events of the Wind Waker. A new Hyrule will be found and maybe Ganon will come back and have the whole war and capture the whole Triforce.
Okay, maybe the Imprisoning War was Ocarina of Time's story as I was doing a little bit of research. It seems that when they made Ocarina of Time, they were trying to tell the story of that war, of aLttP's backstory, I think that is what you were trying to say. Anyways, I still think that Nintendo just screwed it up. We all know that Nintendo was doing gameplay play first, storyline last. When they made aLttP, maybe they changed the backstory to make the gameplay better and story unique. They said, lets give Ganon the Triforce of Power, and then went oops we were supposed to give him the whole Triforce as aLttP says that. Wind Waker was the first game that they tried to connect them. I know Nintendo will be making more games that go between the games, so we don't know for sure that this is going to pan out.
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To recap: there are two reasons why I say that the timeline must be split and that we can't just say that OoT's events overrule LttP's (which is probably what the OoT authors originally intended):
* LttP can only follow from OoT, and Ganon has the full Triforce in LttP. This is a plot hole that can't be argued out of.
* WW exists, and WW's backstory is incompatable with LttP's.
I still don't like the split storyline because it yet doesn't make sense. aLttP can follow WW in my opinion. I just think that Imprisoning War can still happen, after WW. It can. I haven't seen any reason to say why not. If you can believe the split storyline, saying there was another Imprisoning War for Ganon to get the whole Triforce, then why can't you think that it could happen after tWW? Or maybe, Nintendo just ignored the fact that the Ganon never got out of the Dark World between the games. What if Nintendo just screwed up and rewrote the storyline again?
Either way, this doesn't have anything to do with my game. Since you can't prove the split storyline, it isn't a fact that my game is wrong. In fact, even if there was a split storyline, my story can still make sense since they are parallel worlds. And we all know that you can travel between parallel worlds; i.e. Majora's Mask, aLttP.
So I answered must of the questions about HoD and the problems you saw with it, and it looks like I made sense of everything, so it doesn't look like I have a problem, except for just that split timeline debate. So was there anything else you needed to know about my storyline in my game? Hope you are enjoying it thus far.
Also, in my upcoming games, I know who I would talk to if I had a question on the Zelda Series. And I do have a big question that I am going to research soon, that wasn't covered here.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
OK, now here's a little monkey wrench to think about...
If WW takes place before LttP, explain how Hyrule is not flooded. WW is definitely after OoT, there is no disputing that. Somewhere I remember seeing WW takes place 100 years (or hundreds, can't remember which) after OoT. So it honestly doesn't make sense with LttP, especially with the Triforce ending. There could be a screw up somewhere. But let's say we were to "ignore" the fact that Link gets the entire Triforce at the end of LttP. Could WW logically follow it then?
I don't know if they really screwed up the story line or just decided to take it in a different direction after LttP.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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What I was saying was, there can be another war called The Imprisoning War called the events of the Wind Waker.
Ahh, a very good question: why can't there be multiple Imprisoning Wars?
Well, the LttP manual says that in the history of LttP's people, the Imprisoning War was precipitated by Ganondorf breaking into the Sacred Realm to get the Triforce. One event directly leads to the other - there's no chance that the people of Hyrule forgot about a previous imprisoning (OoT) and releasing (WW) that may have occurred between the Sacred Realm invasion and the LttP Imprisoning War. And considering that the people in Hero of Dreams remember the Hero of Time and the events that made him a hero, it's certain that Two Imprisoning Wars is incompatable with One Sacred Realm Invasion.
So, in order for a Second Imprisoning War to be plausible, you have to assume that in future canon storylines: 1) the Triforce will be returned to the Sacred Realm, 2) that the Sacred Realm's entrance will again be lost, 3) that Ganondorf will again fortuitously discover it, and 4) that he will again be sealed inside the Sacred Realm by Seven Sages.
But here's another point: LttP's also states that the Hylians were the ones who fought in the Imprisoning War, and in LttP's time the Hylians have all been replaced with more mundane Humans. Hylians are also in short supply in WW's world - the Helmaroc King was sent by Ganondorf to search for "girls with pointed ears", and, if memory serves, it only found four such girls. So unless there is an unexpected and unexplained resurgence in pointy-eared folk in WW's sequels, I'll have to declare the Two Imprisoning Wars theory very unlikely.
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When they made aLttP, maybe they changed the backstory to make the gameplay better and story unique. They said, lets give Ganon the Triforce of Power, and then went oops we were supposed to give him the whole Triforce as aLttP says that.
I don't quite think they made an "oops", per se. Presumably they didn't notice at all. It's an easy point to miss, especially considering the multiple meaning of the word "Triforce".
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In fact, even if there was a split storyline, my story can still make sense since they are parallel worlds. And we all know that you can travel between parallel worlds; i.e. Majora's Mask, aLttP.
What of it? Hero of Dreams can only take place in one line or the other. Either the Hero of Winds was native to HoD's timeline, or the Hero of Light was. It seems a bit too much of a stretch to assert that a parallel timeline's Hero would somehow become imbued in another timeline's Legend. That the people would raise a statue of a Hero when the events that made him a hero simply never happened. Especially since no canon events provide a precedent for this.
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Originally Posted by
erm2003
If WW takes place before LttP, explain how Hyrule is not flooded.
Solution 1: WW does not take place before LttP.
Solution 2: LttP takes place in the "new world" that was mentioned at WW's end. But see above for arguments against this.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
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Ahh, a very good question: why can't there be multiple Imprisoning Wars?
Well, the LttP manual says that in the history of LttP's people, the Imprisoning War was precipitated by Ganondorf breaking into the Sacred Realm to get the Triforce. One event directly leads to the other - there's no chance that the people of Hyrule forgot about a previous imprisoning (OoT) and releasing (WW) that may have occurred between the Sacred Realm invasion and the LttP Imprisoning War. And considering that the people in Hero of Dreams remember the Hero of Time and the events that made him a hero, it's certain that Two Imprisoning Wars is incompatable with One Sacred Realm Invasion.
So, in order for a Second Imprisoning War to be plausible, you have to assume that in future canon storylines: 1) the Triforce will be returned to the Sacred Realm, 2) that the Sacred Realm's entrance will again be lost, 3) that Ganondorf will again fortuitously discover it, and 4) that he will again be sealed inside the Sacred Realm by Seven Sages.
But here's another point: LttP's also states that the Hylians were the ones who fought in the Imprisoning War, and in LttP's time the Hylians have all been replaced with more mundane Humans. Hylians are also in short supply in WW's world - the Helmaroc King was sent by Ganondorf to search for "girls with pointed ears", and, if memory serves, it only found four such girls. So unless there is an unexpected and unexplained resurgence in pointy-eared folk in WW's sequels, I'll have to declare the Two Imprisoning Wars theory very unlikely.
Well the thing is, seeing that Link didn't find the new world in WW yet, we have no idea how many people are actually living there. A whole bunch of people that could become Hylians (after the kingdom is started). I can still see the Imprisoning Wars happening again. Am I wrong, most likely, but I am telling you a contradiction to your split theory.
Also who in the Hero of Dreams knows about the Hero of Time? I thought I made sure that I did not allow this to happen. The thing is no one knows about them or their legends, except for the legend of Hero of Courage as that will just years ago. The only thing that they know about anything is the statues with the descriptions. I was going to make it so you will be able to read the descriptions, but without multiple warps (2.10 didn't have them), you couldn't play the ocarina to go inside it. So I took out the descriptions. (Also, I never said how the statues got put there; never said the people themselves made them). But other then the statues, no one knows about any of the heroes in my game.
However, the archaeologists are finding clues about "The Legend of Zelda". And the main Researcher/Archaologist is Donmore. And he knows a lot about the Hero's storyline. Since you haven't been through my game, I am not going to continue what I was saying as I don't want to spoil things.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by
_L_
What! Zelda 2 is a direct continuation of Zelda 1! Wind Waker was custom-measured to fit after OoT! And OoT was designed to be a pseudo-prequel to LttP! And you say that
none of them do?
For more information, see
Zelda Legends continuity theories. What I outlined in the top post is a variant on NOA Order with the Wind Waker storyline being parallel to LttP.
I meant none of the custom quests really fit into the timeline, not the official games. :rolleyes:
You know, you can use this box since this thread is filled with so many spoilers:
Somebody brought up an interesting theory explaining how Wind Waker is before LttP. You remember that the Koroks planted the seeds throughout the Great Sea in TWW? Well, the theory states that these trees, with the Forest Water sprinkled on them (you remember that side-quest, I'm sure), grew to be several Deku Trees and connected their roots to form a new land mass, connecting the various islands of the Great Sea.
This person's timeline theory read like this:
Creation of Hyrule
Book of Mudora is written
Link I:
OoT - first half
MM
OoT - second half (ALttP's backstory)
TAoL's backstory
Link II:
TP (TWW's backstory)
Flood - Book of Mudora is lost
Link III:
TWW
PH
Book of Mudora is rediscovered
Link IV:
TLoZ (TMC's backstory)
TAoL
Link V:
OoS
OoA
LA
Link VI:
TMC
Link VII:
FS
FSA
Link VIII:
ALttP
I could post the ENTIRE text file of the Zelda timeline if anyone would like. This is just a very simplified version.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Man, this is one heated debate
Here is what I think the story line is
Hero of time (OOT, MM OOS&OOA)
Twilight princess hero
Hero of Winds (WW&PH)
Some unknown hero we dont know about yet (Pre Minishcap?)
Minish cap
Hero of Light (LTTP, LA, FS, FSA)
Hero of Courage (Zelda 1 & 2, and mabey those stupid CDi Zelda games...)
Remember, there are going to be more zelda games, so they might put in a new hero in between the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light.
Quote:
This person's timeline theory read like this:
Creation of Hyrule
Book of Mudora is written
Link I:
OoT - first half
MM
OoT - second half (ALttP's backstory)
TAoL's backstory
Link II:
TP (TWW's backstory)
Flood - Book of Mudora is lost
Link III:
TWW
PH
Book of Mudora is rediscovered
Link IV:
TLoZ (TMC's backstory)
TAoL
Link V:
OoS
OoA
LA
Link VI:
TMC
Link VII:
FS
FSA
Link VIII:
ALttP
I find this timeline quite unreliable.
First off, you state that the book of Mudora was some sort of history book or something. It never says that in LTTP. It says it can read anciant Hylian Language.
Secondly, you state that the first zelda game was the prequle to Minish cap. Since when did Zelda 1 have the Picori blade? Never. So, Minish Cap and Zelda 1 are unrelated in that way.
And lastly, there is no way some stupid trees can somehow make land appear. There are already planty of trees around on the Great Sea in the Wind Waker, and they didn't dry up Hyrule. Whoever suggested that might want to go back to school and actually stay awake in science class.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zyoss2000
Man, this is one heated debate
Here is what I think the story line is
Hero of time (OOT, MM OOS&OOA)
Twilight princess hero
Hero of Winds (WW&PH)
Some unknown hero we dont know about yet (Pre Minishcap?)
Minish cap
Hero of Light (LTTP, LA, FS, FSA)
Hero of Courage (Zelda 1 & 2, and mabey those stupid CDi Zelda games...)
Some complaints:
* Oracles cannot follow from OoT because at the start of Oracles, Ganon is completely dead. Twinrova's appearance proves nothing since they died in OoT.
* Also, at the start of Oracles, the complete Triforce is in Hyrule Castle. Thus, the best place to insert it is after LttP. (But with a different hero, of course. "The Hero of Nature and Time"?)
* The best place to insert Link's Awakening is directly after Oracles. (In the second quest ending of Oracles, Link departs on a boat. Not a coincidence!)
Quote:
Remember, there are going to be more zelda games, so they might put in a new hero in between the Hero of Winds and the Hero of Light.
See my argument against Multiple Imprisoning Wars for why I consider this quite unlikely.
Quote:
First off, you state that the book of Mudora was some sort of history book or something. It never says that in LTTP. It says it can read anciant Hylian Language.
Wait... consider this quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LttP
I am Aginah. I sense something is happening in the Golden Land the seven wise men sealed...
This must be an omen of the Great Cataclysm foretold by the people of Hylian blood...
... ... ...
The prophecy says, "The Hero will stand in the desert holding the Book Of Mudora."
Thus, if the Book of Mudora is mentioned in a prophecy made by the Hylians, then it must be as old as the Hylians.
Quote:
Secondly, you state that the first zelda game was the prequle to Minish cap. Since when did Zelda 1 have the Picori blade? Never. So, Minish Cap and Zelda 1 are unrelated in that way.
My own opinion of the Four Sword games is that they either take place in a completely disconnected timeline altogether, or they take place a good century or three after Zeldas 1/2. (An important hole in my knowledge is what role Ganon had in Four Swords Adventures, which I have yet to play.)
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
My own opinion of the Four Sword games is that they either take place in a completely disconnected timeline altogether, or they take place a good century or three after Zeldas 1/2. (An important hole in my knowledge is what role Ganon had in Four Swords Adventures, which I have yet to play.)
You havn't beaten FSA?!?
Well, all I can say is that Ganondorf is indeed in the game, but thats all I'm saying.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zyoss2000
You havn't beaten FSA?!?
Yeah, I know. From what I've heard it's supposed to have an extremely over-the-top storyline, beginning with Zelda and six maidens being kidnapped and the Four Sword being awakened, and culminating in the Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny where all four Links take on Dark Link, Ganon, Vaati, Onox, Veran, Twinrova, Phantom Ganon, Agahnim and the Shadow Nightmares all at once. And Ganon is wearing Majora's Mask.
(But then, I was also assured that the entire game was multiplayer only!)
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
The entire game isn't multiplayer only in FSA. You can play by yourself and control all four Links. It is boring, but you still can. Anyways, in the FSA, it basically implies that The Minish Cap is before it, as it refrences the game. And I don't know if I mentioned it here but I think this is the same Link from aLttP. It makes sense too actually. It has the same graphics, the same areas as aLttP, Eastern palace, etc. Also, the story is similar with Zelda and the six maidens being kidnapped again.
Also, I have the game and beaten it many times, and I don't remember seeing Onox, Veran, Twinrova, Phantom Ganon, Agahnim, Shadow Nightmares, or Ganon with the Majora's Mask. I am pretty postive they aren't in the game. I would remember Ganon wearing Majora's Mask. You probably read something wrong.
Anyways, what is funny about FSA, is I was writing the storyline of HoD before the game was released. And I named the aLttP Link, The Hero of Light. Then in FSA, they call the Link, the Hero of Light. I was like, wow, it is like we are in the same wave length. lol. So that is another reason why I think it is the Hero of Light. :P
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Also, I have the game and beaten it many times, and I don't remember seeing Onox, Veran, Twinrova, Phantom Ganon, Agahnim, Shadow Nightmares, or Ganon with the Majora's Mask. I am pretty postive they aren't in the game. I would remember Ganon wearing Majora's Mask. You probably read something wrong.
I think he was being sarcastic. Anyways, Phantom ganon is in the game, he's the boss of the first area.
Anyways, back on topic. I think I have the true answer to the whole Hero of Dreams storyline:
Who actually gives a crap?!?
Not me. As long as the game is awsome, I don't really care about the storyline.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zyoss2000
Anyways, back on topic. I think I have the true answer to the whole Hero of Dreams storyline:
Who actually gives a crap?!?
I am going to ahead and take a guess at this one.
Maybe Shoelace? The guy who spent years designing this quest and creating a story line to give the quest an even deeper purpose and meaning.
You made a rather ignorant statement.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
erm2003 is right about the guess. For a couple of years, I was trying to piece things together so it would fit into the storyline. Since I didn't believe in the split storyline obviously, that is why _L_ bought this thread up. That is reason why I am debating about it. The other debating makes me better understand the storyline. :P
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
You made a rather ignorant statement.
Alright, I apolagize (Hope I spelled that right). I wasn't trying to be mean in any way. Sorry if I hurt anybodys feelings.:(
Edit: Oh yeah, one more thing (I'm not trying to be rude, I just want to know), where did you get the following quote at _L_? Nobody posted it anywhere on the thread...
Quote:
I am Aginah. I sense something is happening in the Golden Land the seven wise men sealed...
This must be an omen of the Great Cataclysm foretold by the people of Hylian blood...
... ... ...
The prophecy says, "The Hero will stand in the desert holding the Book Of Mudora."
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shoelace
Anyways, what is funny about FSA, is I was writing the storyline of HoD before the game was released. And I named the aLttP Link, The Hero of Light. Then in FSA, they call the Link, the Hero of Light. I was like, wow, it is like we are in the same wave length. lol. So that is another reason why I think it is the Hero of Light. :P
A better example: the unnamed hero of BS-Zelda: Ancient Stone Tablets (who's supposed to represent the player) is called "Hero of Light" by various people.
P.S: The quote mentioned on the bottom post of the previous page comes from here.
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Re: Continuity Problems in Hero of Dreams
Well good. Since everyone says that the Hero of Light is aLttP Link, and the FSA Link is called Hero of Light in the game. Then, it fits into my storyline, so awesome. :P I wanted to do something with the FSA storyline in HoD, however, since there isn't that much info on the storyline, I didn't want a game to be released to contradict on game. That is why I only mentioned TP only once during HoD. By the way, how far are you in the game?
But yes _L_, you have to play FSA, it is a great game if you have friends with GBAs. :P I bought mine on Ebay with 4 cables too, all for 35 dollars. I got so lucky. :P Anyways, if there is ever a Four Swords for the Wii (online!), we have to play together. lol.
