5th Quest Public Judging

NOTICE: This proposed method of judging is not currently in use.

Okay! It has been just over a month since the submissions closed. Hopefully you've had time to just browse and enjoy the surplus of quests that were submitted. Now it's time to start picking which quest you want to be the next number installment in Zelda Classic.


I have added a multiple-choice poll to each quest thread, which expires sometime during the afternoon (15:ish GMT -6) on the 14th of April 2014.
It's a little ironic that the close date is 4/14/14, since I arbitrarily picked 123 days for the length of the poll. ANYWAY! You may vote for as many categories as you like, but please also vote for "played" if you played the quest, we will be using this to determine which quest got the most traffic.


Here is a more in-depth description of each category:

Played
You played the quest. We will be using this category to track which quest was played the most. If you're voting, I should hope you at least played the quest before you picked it!

Best Candidate
Cumulatively, you believe that the quest should be the winner of the contest. We will use this category to determine finalists for the private judging

Riddler
Of all the quests you played (and I hope you played at least two!), you felt the quest was the most clever with puzzles. Puzzles can include text riddles, mazes, tool puzzles (burn flags, push blocks, etc) and Overworld layout.

Hardest
Of all the quests, you struggled the most with the difficulty of this one. Perhaps it is a lack of access to necessary equipment or perhaps it is the structure of rooms and enemies. Being Hardest doesn't necessarily mean you didn't LIKE the quest, though, if you did not enjoy the best it is better to refrain from voting in categories outside "Played".

Purple Ganon
You feel the quest featured a particularly clever or unusual boss fight. Perhaps the projectiles are strange for that type of boss, or the room layout is bizarre. Or perhaps it is my awesome Ganon fight! Sorry, had to get that in somewhere. <_<

Gold Darknut
You feel the quest featured a particularly interesting new enemy concept. The new enemy needn't have new graphics to qualify.

Underhell
You feel the dungeons in the quest were rigorous, clever, and enjoyable, much more so than other quests in the contest.

Pixel Power
You feel the quest made use of new or ripped tiles that were elegant but did not disturb the overall appearance of the Classic Style

Famicom
You feel the quest is very NES authentic, and could picture it on a cartridge in an old system.



It is important to note that even though the poll is multiple choice, you only get to vote once per quest! Make sure you've picked the categories you absolutely want for that quest before you submit.



Also, in case you're wondering why I posted identical messages in every quest thread, it was to filter the non-quest threads to the bottom of the sub-forum so as to remove distractions. I posted in order of last post date, so the quest that was being discussed most recently is still at the top of the forum.



Too Long, Didn't Read!
Each quest thread now has a poll! Go vote! Vote in multiple categories! And vote before April 14th!

I like the categories and all, but I feel like this public voting is going to give people like Nightmare and Shoelace a huge edge as a lot of people will play their quests, and most unknowns won't get as nearly as much traffic. (Nothing against them, they are just popular in the community)

Going off PureZCs download numbers (since there's no way I could get download #s from here)

Shoelace - 136
Travster - 69
Btjcraft - 56
LoveForFire - 50
Scootaloo - 50

Well we can try to break down the popularity power with some cheesy statistics by weighing the votes against the number of times played

Example:

Quote:

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Nightmare: 60 played, 40 Purple Ganon -> 40/60 -> 66% Purple Ganon

CJC: 6 played, 5 Purple Ganon -> 5/6 -> 78% Purple Ganon


CJC wins the Purple Ganon Award

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Unfortunately, quests that have extremely low play numbers (less than 10) will instead be boosted by UNpopularity power in that setup. So a quest would need at least 10 plays to place.


We should use this thread to discuss other judging options and come to a decision on which is the best way to handle the contest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Love For Fire

I like the categories and all, but I feel like this public voting is going to give people like Nightmare and Shoelace a huge edge as a lot of people will play their quests, and most unknowns won't get as nearly as much traffic. (Nothing against them, they are just popular in the community)

Going off PureZCs download numbers (since there's no way I could get download #s from here)

Shoelace - 136
Travster - 69
Btjcraft - 56
LoveForFire - 50
Scootaloo - 50

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I think there will be some sort of paragraph judging here, so a total blind tally will not be happening. Or else we would have the "most played" problem.

I'm not the biggest fan of this system, but I think it's pretty much required in this one.

-James

As far as I can remember that is exactly why there wasn't going to be any polls. We'll figure it out.

I am against polls for the narrowing-down/elimination round.

...Unless we can replace it with a stripper poll, then I would vote yay if there was a poll for that.

Okay, so here's a follow-up question

Since we probably aren't going to use the results of the polls in any significant way, should they be left up as a means of cataloging player opinions or should they be deleted? I have no objections either way; my only intent was to get people judging the quests.

I thought it was going to be at least 2 tiered (since there are so many entries). First round, eliminate entries due to too easy, too hard, or just didn't follow specs. Second round, use some kind of rankings to get the top pick.

But of course the question still is "how?"

I think the current issue right now is getting people to play the entries and more importantly give feedback on them.

Yep, there's a shit ton of quests for people to play. Personally, I'm still working on starting up quest #3 myself -- my goal is to finish 5 or 6 of them all the way through.

Somehow I never manage to get anything done in December either... Not sure what's up with that. *drinks more egg nog*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gleeok

Somehow I never manage to get anything done in December either... Not sure what's up with that. *drinks more egg nog*

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It's the bourbon in the egg nog.

I was thinking of trying to do a "pledge list." Basically list each quest and get one person to promise to play one of the quests and list their name by it until there is someone for each quest.There would be a goal time(maybe a week or two) and when they are done they do a little review(nothing fancy). After the times up start a new list. There could be an AGN List and a PureZC List. Of course PureZCers should post what they think of the quest they played in the entry thread here so that we can keep track of these things.

If anyone is friends with someone who does LPs they should try to get them to LP a couple entries(preferably ones that haven't received much attention).

It's too much work to ask one person to play all the entries completely. We need a lot of people doing one or two at this point. Some people seem to be playing them but we aren't getting a whole lot of feedback.

When the polls were changed, it said that I couldn't complete BigJoe's quest, could someone change that? I did.

-James

http://youtu.be/8-RT7R_TWnE

Best Boss Battle and nomination for the final boss battle when we compile.

-James

Just some general trends:

1. LOTS of James Quest influence: I remember when breaking down quest difficulty back in the day that I removed the Boomerang from standard play and made it a Level 6 item. This trend seems to be in force in these quests, maybe somewhat too much. I have been seeing the Boomerang come out very late in most quests, a lot at 4 or later, somtimes 6. Considering the Boomerang was kinda standard equipment in Zelda, this is going to be kind of a shock to people coming in. This is going to make quests kinda really hard.

2. Extreme Difficulty: I was expecting some quests around the New Quest difficulty range (kinda expected for this), but man, some of these have been at the James Quest level or harder, which mean trouble for newer testers.. BigJoe, MischaPetya, CJC, QuestWizard88, and I'm pretty sure Gleeok too, all clocking in at and over James Quest difficulty. This is definitely going to send shockwaves throughout the Zelda Classic community. in other words, THESE ARE HARD!

3. "Fun, but probably not going to win.". Outside of some obvious DQ's in my book and two quests that were generally too easy, I have noticed a good amount of quests that are good to great but just don't meet the criteria to win and probably will be eliminated for some various reason or being too creative for the requirement specs. These include: Shoelace's, CJC's, Love For Fire's, and Imzogelmo's, possibly mine too in the final cuts. If you probably fall into this category, I'd suggest making a newer version in some newer tileset and expanding it for later use. I'd make for some great theater.

4. Creativity: There has been some good stuff coming out despite the limiations. From Imzogelmo's Mini Dodongos to CJC's Ganon Battle, there has been some fresh air. That's been a good thing generally.

5. I'm going to leave this up to the judges, but do you think some quests are getting a bit ROMhackish? I think so to some degree.

Ciao.

-James

Updated 1/13/2013

Apologize for the multiple posts, but I want these thoughts separate. Sue me for warning points. :)

Separate post, but I think it warrants it:

I want to post my thoughts in general on each of the quests I played (generally in order of how I feel they stack up), how they stack against each other:

BigJoe: Balances NES authenticity with enemies the best; however, your quest difficulty is a huge concern.
MischaPetya: Later levels not so great, but still, second best on the list.
Chris Miller: If you'd only be less stubborn and fix your enemy groups you'd be top tier. Enjoyable to the end.
Me: Well, played a lot, enjoyed, and least ROMhackish. Has to go for something.
HoF: Solid, maybe not my personal favorite, but technically sound.
LFF: Most balanced quest out of the bunch, though the Darknuts and others seem slightly ROMhackish. EEEEEE-VIL Magic Key secret.
Imzogelmo: Fun, a lot of fun, but broke too many rules.
Nethis: Good authenticity, nothing else.
CJC: Best boss fight, but your quest has too many rules that were broken to be considered.
DCSyxx: Maybe the most accurate quest, but way too easy to be considered even closely.
Travster. Nice quest, but way too easy too. Doesn't deserve consideration.
BTJCraft: Won't comment. Serious issues.
ZCFan: Didn't get far, but really hated the extra maze path and sword obtaining in the beginning. I'll let someone else take a pass.
QuestWizard: Your Lv. 2 is ridiculous. Tone it down, unless Gleeok can pass it.
Sylph: You got bugs, fix 'em.
Shoelace: DQ issues. I will try your quest out when you fix it in the RC and I get more time. Enjoyable for what I played.
Scootoloo: DQ issues due to tileset. Generally did not like it as well. Stopped playing like right away.
PeteAndWally: Why did you do that with your Overworld?

Now, for the seven I think should advance:
BigJoe: Awesome for the accuracy.
MischaPetya: All the credit to you, especially being like a first-time questmaker. To beat all the vets IMO is impressive.
Chris_Miller: Titan's Quest was awesome, enjoyed yours too, even if I had to yell at you to tone it up. :)
Me: Hits, less of a ROMhack, this contest needs some creativity. Definitely a consideration.
HoF: Technically sound. Not my favorite, but good for technical stuff.
LFF: Last spot is hard to fill as usual, but you break the least amount of rules. Depending on how everyone else thinks, I hope you advance. Your difficulty was the best out of everyone.
Imzogelmo: I know this is a stretch, but I'd like to see some creativity makes the cut, and this one does the best job. I loved your quest: Lots of fun.

Oh and by the way, fuck you Hero Mode in "Link Between Worlds", lol.

-James

I must know, what did you think of that first cave though?

Didn't questwizard win the 4th contest? and I finished in your mind ahead of him? I'm very flattered with that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zcfan27330

I must know, what did you think of that first cave though?

Didn't questwizard win the 4th contest? and I finished in your mind ahead of him? I'm very flattered with that

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There were palette issues, but when you make your Lv. 2 virtually impassable then yes, you're going to finish ahead (for now).

Felt like BS-Zelda.

-James

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

I want to post my thoughts in general on each of the quests I played (generally in order of how I feel they stack up), how they stack against each other:

BigJoe: Balances NES authenticity with enemies the best; however, your quest difficulty is a huge concern.
MischaPetya: Later levels not so great, but still, second best on the list.
Chris Miller: If you'd only be less stubborn and fix your enemy groups you'd be top tier. Enjoyable to the end.
Me: Well, played a lot, enjoyed, and least ROMhackish. Has to go for something.
HoF: Solid, maybe not my personal favorite, but technically sound.
LFF: Most balanced quest out of the bunch, though the Darknuts and others seem slightly ROMhackish. EEEEEE-VIL Magic Key secret.

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Just wanted to chime in and say that I pretty much agree with the order and identities of your top 6. I might be inclined to switch MischaPetya and Chris Miller, but that's a close call. I've played all 6 (plus about half of the others) and have posted reviews in each quest's thread.

Okay, we have passed Tax Day and it's time to start reeling these guys in and pick some finalists.

If you really liked a quest and want to give it an extra shout-out, post your thoughts in this thread. Otherwise we will systematically collect the reviews for the quests and based on player approval select three to enter the finals.

But I'm still playing them! :P

Besides Nightmare--who somehow managed to play most of them already--I don't know if there is even a sufficient info pool to be able to eliminate all but three yet. I can probably burn through a few more in a month... Aaaahhh!

[edit] How many people have beaten more than three 5th quests so far? (Not counting your own)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gleeok

But I'm still playing them! :P

Besides Nightmare--who somehow managed to play most of them already--I don't know if there is even a sufficient info pool to be able to eliminate all but three yet. I can probably burn through a few more in a month... Aaaahhh!

[edit] How many people have beaten more than three 5th quests so far? (Not counting your own)

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I've done 7 of them, and am in dungeon 6 of my eighth.

I completed 12 5th quests and got through about half of BigJoe's quest (I got used to the music) when ... I'm not proud to admit, but the Zelda-overload finally got to me and I lost interest in finishing.

Just got burned out at some point, and a business trip in mid-March took me out of my groove. Never got back.

Didn't finish Scootaloo's quest (stuck with Level 7). Of the 12 that I finished, I have them in this order:

1) MischaPetya
2) BigJoe
3) HeroOfFire
4) Nightmare
5) Chris Miller
6) CJC
7) Shoelace
8) Imzogelmo
9) QuestWizard88
10) LoveForFire
11) Nethis
12) dcsyxx
13) peteandwally
14) zcfan27330
15) BtjCraft
16) Travster

I really want to put CJC's quest higher, but well, you know, 'too much, too soon'. FWIW, my experience with Travster's quest was very different from others; I got to his after he went from 'way too easy' to 'way too hard'. (Frankly, I prefer the 'way too easy'.)

I may get back into it when the finalists are announced, particularly if some are quests I never started (or finished).


EDIT: I did complete 4 more (include BigJoe's) since originally posting this. Those last 4 are in bold.

Never went back to Scootaloo's after he fixed it, and never attempted Sylph's.