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State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Hey there. I know I shouldn't be making a thread like this, but I haven't made anything like this, and I am really wanting to know the progress. So anyways, yeah I have a couple of questions for the developers.
First, how far do you think ZC 2.5 is to being released? And I am asking in a progress report sort of way. Like at this stage how long do you think is it going to take for 2.5 to be released? As it looks right now it looks like the big reason why 2.5 isn't going to released anytime soon is Large Mode. So much of Large Mode is unfinished. Is there anything we can do?
I noticed ZC progress has been getting a little slow. I know that the developers have lives and this is just for fun thing and not a job, but for the past like 6 months, the only developer doing anything is _L_ (God, bless his soul). So what happened to the other developers? Are we in need for more developers? Are you looking for new developers? I say this because it doesn't look like any of the other developers are coming back. That is the way it appears to me anyway. So shouldn't we move on and get new comers?
I know a lot of people are going to tell me, that the betas right now are good and such. But this is my point. We have been waiting for maybe 2 and half years now. We really can't release our games on 2.5 because the updates on the betas will destroy it, and no new comers are going to understand the download system. And that is one thing that is happening. The newbies here don't understand the betas. It hard to figure out to download them and such, and it is really hurting the community. Here and PureZC have seen a HUGE decrease in ZC interaction. And people are on the brink on leaving, including me. Now, I know it will kick back up once 2.5 is released, as we can something to advertise, something global to use. Like I can't go to Youtube and get people to come here and download build 847 or something like that. The point is, I just really want a progress report on what you think is the state on ZC 2.5. Because at this point it doesn't look like it is coming out in the next year or two.
Anyways, thanks. --Shoelace
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quit yer spammin, Shoelance!
j/k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shoelace
I noticed ZC progress has been getting a little slow. I know that the developers have lives and this is just for fun thing and not a job, but for the past like 6 months, the only developer doing anything is _L_ (God, bless his soul). So what happened to the other developers?
I think DarkDragon got a job or moved overseas or joined the military or something. Which is a shame, as he's always been the prime mover of ZC development since before I arrived. Even today his Shardstorm contributions outweigh mine by 50%.
Saffith and pikaguy900 are in unannounced retirement. jman2050 said about a week ago that he might soon have more time to work on the interface, so we'll see. Dark Nation? No idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shoelace
The point is, I just really want a progress report on what you think is the state on ZC 2.5. Because at this point it doesn't look like it is coming out in the next year or two.
What do you mean? Other than the aforementioned HR problems, things are going better than ever. The bug forums only have 52 open bugs left! (The NES compatability bugs have been marked "Deferred to post-2.50" by DarkDragon) And the new bug reports have shrunken to about 4 per week. Even two committed devs could plough through those in 4 months. And after that is just the business of finalising ZScript and the Default Template and tidying up the ZQuest interface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shoelace
I noticed ZC progress has been getting a little slow. I know that the developers have lives and this is just for fun thing and not a job, but for the past like 6 months, the only developer doing anything is _L_ (God, bless his soul). So what happened to the other developers?
I think DarkDragon got a job or moved overseas or joined the military or something. Which is a shame, as he's always been the prime mover of ZC development since before I arrived. Even today his Shardstorm contributions outweigh mine by 50%.
Saffith and pikaguy900 are in unannounced retirement. jman2050 said about a week ago that he might soon have more time to work on the interface, so we'll see. Dark Nation? No idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shoelace
The point is, I just really want a progress report on what you think is the state on ZC 2.5. Because at this point it doesn't look like it is coming out in the next year or two.
What do you mean? Other than the aforementioned HR problems, things are going better than ever. The bug forums only have 52 open bugs left! (The NES compatability bugs have been marked "Deferred to post-2.50" by DarkDragon) And the new bug reports have shrunken to about 2 per week. Even two committed devs could plough through those in 4 months. And after that is just the business of finalising ZScript and tidying up the ZQuest interface.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
ut oh.
The freedom and Petoe generation has passed away and now the next generations are in their life throws.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I believe DarkDragon is only on holiday over seas, he has not gone away for good.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
_L_: Consider it "unnanounced retirement" if you want, but I plan to do work. I'm just...not confident in my ability to work with the code well at all. Right now, I really want to do something with the code, but there's so much thrown all over the place, and I have absolutely NO real experience working with the code.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
While we are on the subject of ZC 2.5's release, I have a question. What about NeoFirst. I believe it was supposed to be packaged with ZC 2.5 as an example quest. However, 2.5's release is drawing near, and NeoFirst is nowhere near completion. Will a first quest remake be made for 2.5 or something like that?
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
2.5 and NeoFirst are both pretty much in the same boat as Duke Nukem Forever.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Sorry guys :( :( :(. That I got a job is partially right (grad student), which has been taking up a lot of time. In addition, I've found NYC a lot more conducive to having a social life than Kentucky. These factors, combined with me getting a little bummed out that, despite our best efforts, 2.50 stability appears to have become a Sisyphean task, have caused me to completely neglect ZC lately. Right now I'm working towards a paper deadline and won't have the time to get back in the swing of development, but do hope to do a spurt of work on ZC once my schedule becomes more leisurely. Again, I'm sorry to have let you guys down, I know how long everyone has been patiently waiting for 2.50, and as one of the few who can do something about it, share a lot of the blame.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
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Again, I'm sorry to have let you guys down, I know how long everyone has been patiently waiting for 2.50, and as one of the few who can do something about it, share a lot of the blame.
DD, won't blame yourself at all. Like _L_ said you did a lot to get ZC 2.5 this far. Even if you were to retire right now, I still respect the hell out of you and thank you for all of the hard work you put into ZC. So again, don't you dare think you let us down.
This thread was just so I know, and everyone else for that matter, where everyone and everything stands. Because like you guys do, I put a lot of work in my quests. I devout a lot of time and care into my quests, and that is why I want to know the progress. Because I want to see my quest released some day, and the waiting and waiting for years is starting to take its toll on me. I am just trying to find hope because I don't want my hard work to go to waste, because there is no telling what I will be doing in 2 years and I don't want my game to be canned.
Quote:
What do you mean? Other than the aforementioned HR problems, things are going better than ever. The bug forums only have 52 open bugs left! (The NES compatability bugs have been marked "Deferred to post-2.50" by DarkDragon) And the new bug reports have shrunken to about 2 per week. Even two committed devs could plough through those in 4 months. And after that is just the business of finalising ZScript and tidying up the ZQuest interface.
Thanks _L_ for the response. Yeah, I do see that there are only 52 open bugs. So that sounds great. However, the thing in the back of my mind was the Large Mode. To me, it seems like the longest part of the wait now is Large Mode, as everything has to be made and then tested still. And it has been going kinda slow. Yesterday, I was ZCing for about 7 hours and a lot of the time was using a magnifying glass to see the Tile Page. lol. I see that you put it on the next build, so I am crossing my fingers that there will be a new downloadable build soon as I have been switching back and forth from the normal and large mode constantly.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
History repeats itself :p How many tens of times has a thread like this emerged? Not that it is without justification.
It sure is boring around here -_-
waiting for the new version
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
2.50 stability appears to have become a Sisyphean task, have caused me to completely neglect ZC lately.
There are tons of Sisyphean tasks out there. Whenever I work on graphics for a quest, it becomes such a thing. I'm sure that writing that paper of yours can become such a thing as well. With intelligence like yours, "perfection" becomes a lot harder to reach, unfortunately. To a simpleton, perfection is easy. It must be made of matter, and must provide as a simulation of duct-tape.
So you're in New York City now? Where in, may I ask? There are a bunch of people here who would actually love to visit you. :) (I'm maybe 15 or so miles east of the city, though that's a highly estimated measurement.)
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bigjoe
It sure is boring around here -_-
My boy, this peace is what... *gets pummeled by bricks*
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
russadwan
While we are on the subject of ZC 2.5's release, I have a question. What about NeoFirst. I believe it was supposed to be packaged with ZC 2.5 as an example quest. However, 2.5's release is drawing near, and NeoFirst is nowhere near completion. Will a first quest remake be made for 2.5 or something like that?
Well, NeoFirst is supposed to showcase the new things in 2.50, and it's, admittedly, a bit tricky to do so when 2.50 is technically not completed yet.
And furthermore, NeoFirst is, now at least, intended to showcase the new storytelling and gameplay potential of ZC as compared to First Quest. I intend it to be a full-fledged adventure of its own - not very long, but not too narrow.
Consider NeoFirst's completion a priority for 2.60.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I shall rename ZC 2.5 as Zelda Classic Forever! ;)
And now that Peteo and Freedom are gone (too bad for the community), it is fun to see who will be the next Peteo/Freedom. I'm sure at some point someone will get fed up when they waste all their freetime for a program that is a piece of shit. :)
Oh and pikaguy900, I'm honestly fed up with ignorant comments like you're making. Freedom is the only reason there ever was hope for a stable ZC 2.5. He raised questions, he made things happen, he tested more than any of you slackers ever did, and now he's gone and that's a big effing loss to the community, get that? ZC community needs more Freedoms but none of you people seem to get it. "Freedom is bad, Freedom is shellfish, Freedom is annoying..." silly people, he had the interest of the whole community in his mind, not just his own. Where's the respect he deserves?
Whatever, you guys can keep dreaming of ZC 2.5. Maybe in 2 or 3 years I'll drop by to see what's going on and say to you all "what did I tell you, haha". ;)
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pikaguy900
_L_: Consider it "unnanounced retirement" if you want, but I plan to do work. I'm just...not confident in my ability to work with the code well at all. Right now, I really want to do something with the code, but there's so much thrown all over the place, and I have absolutely NO real experience working with the code.
Then PLEASE don't even touch it and get out the developers team :uhoh:
Maybe it's a good thing to look who is still active or planning to do some stuff and scratch the otherones from the team , so you have an idea , if you need to look for some new developpers to help and what skills they need ;)
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I've been throwing around an idea to actually address the deeper-rooted problems of ZC for a release, but I've been afraid of making everyone mad again. Although really, with all the mistakes I've made so far, I pretty much don't care anymore how much I am disliked if it means getting something out the door that is reasonably complete AND not crippled.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Petoe
I shall rename ZC 2.5 as Zelda Classic Forever! ;)
And now that Peteo and Freedom are gone (too bad for the community), it is fun to see who will be the next Peteo/Freedom. I'm sure at some point someone will get fed up when they waste all their freetime for a program that is a piece of shit. :)
Oh and pikaguy900, I'm honestly fed up with ignorant comments like you're making. Freedom is the only reason there ever was hope for a stable ZC 2.5. He raised questions, he made things happen, he tested more than any of you slackers ever did, and now he's gone and that's a big effing loss to the community, get that? ZC community needs more Freedoms but none of you people seem to get it. "Freedom is bad, Freedom is shellfish, Freedom is annoying..." silly people, he had the interest of the whole community in his mind, not just his own. Where's the respect he deserves?
Whatever, you guys can keep dreaming of ZC 2.5. Maybe in 2 or 3 years I'll drop by to see what's going on and say to you all "what did I tell you, haha". ;)
In order, the underlined parts:
Don't flatter yourself.
Make a not-shit program, then you get to bash ZC. (Same goes for Freedom)
He make make "ignorant" (which is in quotes because I disagree) comments, but when you constantly say "ZC is shit, 2.5 is never coming etc." it's kinda hard to take you seriously.
The bold speaks for itself... *lol*
Apparently the key word is "Had" in that whole sentence (starting at 'silly people')
Yea, we'll dream. Now go ride a bike or something.
I may have done little (I DID actually do stuff) for the ZC community, but I don't sit around and complain waving my giant ego around maiming people with it.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I going to say this.
Devs, face the truth. The current ZC is unstable because of the lack of understanding its code. Phantom Meanace may have made the first ZC, but he knew how it worked to the best of his knowledge. Now that he's not here anymore, and he left no real archive of the code except the code itself, it's all guesswork for the others on deciding how it works.
At this point, sometimes when the plan isn't understood, and not explained, sometimes we must restart with a representation that does make sense. And this, I must say, is a direction we might as well take; this way, we can pinpoint what causes certain problems, and we know what ends are open and not break others by pure accident.
After all, I know a lot of suggestions made require a whole new engine, and the fact is that you might as well make a new one. You got some parts you can start from, but otherwise it be the only viable chance left to get a stable ZC running. After all, I know some of you want to ditch Allegro anyhow, and go with a more flexible library.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
elise
Then PLEASE don't even touch it and get out the developers team :uhoh:
Comments like this won't be tolerated. Don't do this again.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Linkus
I going to say this.
Devs, face the truth. The current ZC is unstable because of the lack of understanding its code. Phantom Meanace may have made the first ZC, but he knew how it worked to the best of his knowledge. Now that he's not here anymore, and he left no real archive of the code except the code itself, it's all guesswork for the others on deciding how it works.
At this point, sometimes when the plan isn't understood, and not explained, sometimes we must restart with a representation that does make sense. And this, I must say, is a direction we might as well take; this way, we can pinpoint what causes certain problems, and we know what ends are open and not break others by pure accident.
After all, I know a lot of suggestions made require a whole new engine, and the fact is that you might as well make a new one. You got some parts you can start from, but otherwise it be the only viable chance left to get a stable ZC running. After all, I know some of you want to ditch Allegro anyhow, and go with a more flexible library.
This is actually what precisely what I want to do, except it doesn't come from not understanding the code, it comes from understanding the code enough that you realize that trying to patch things would be more trouble than its worth.
The problems with ZC extend beyond what's reported in the bug forums. I evidently gained some fans by doing everything that the community wanted me to do, but if these years and experience have taught me anything, it's that the problem IS pandering to a fanbase. You want a stable release? Let us do our jobs and it'll get there when it gets there.
Of course, that's just my view of the whole matter, the other devs and I will have to consider what we want to do in the future, especially regarding this build of ZC we're working on now.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
The big question is (and it's been raised before): "How good is good enough?"
To completely rid ZC of bugs would probably take a lifetime. Currently, we have 28 critical (corrupt quests/crash the program) and mechanical (make quests unbeatable or make things have to be done in a different way than was intended) bugs. Would releasing after these are fixed be "good enough"?
Also, less than half of the current code was actually written by PM. Much of the code has been heavily modified, completely rewritten, or added outright.
Finally, in regards to patching problems vs. rewriting: A rewrite is necessary at some point. To give an analogy, we need a bowl but we have a sieve. We are currently trying to plug up all the holes in the sieve to make a nice, pretty bowl, but it takes time and sometimes the patches that we have to hammer in place make some of the other patches fall off or break new holes into the sieve that have to be patched as well.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Finally, in regards to patching problems vs. rewriting: A rewrite is necessary at some point. To give an analogy, we need a bowl but we have a sieve. We are currently trying to plug up all the holes in the sieve to make a nice, pretty bowl, but it takes time and sometimes the patches that we have to hammer in place make some of the other patches fall off or break new holes into the sieve that have to be patched as well.
Along with your question, is it really worth it to keep patching up the sieve when we could be spending our time making a new bowl? and it doesn't even have to be a prettier bowl, it can be the same bowl everyone is used to, except more sturdy and less likely to break. I doubt people would be willing to wait, but like I said, I don't care about that anymore.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Well, we could patch the biggest holes in the bowl (the ones that can cause the bowl to break or allow all of your food to spill out) while leaving the smaller holes and scratches for later, if ever. Then, we can make a new bowl, though it won't hold a small percentage of the things that the old bowl held without modifying those things (the new bowl has nice compartments, perhaps, and some of the more messy items have to be folded neatly to fit in the pretty compartments, maybe).
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I suppose, but will that be worth it? After all, we already have bowls we've given out that don't have those big holes that we created trying to improve it further. Couldn't they just use one of those instead of waiting for something that's only a marginal improvement?
(On a seperate note, this analogy is fun)
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Well, one of the problems with our current bowl is that some types of food containing certain ingredients, if taken out of the bowl and placed in the refrigerator, will be free of those ingredients when put back into the bowl: http://www.armageddongames.net/forum...d.php?t=102928
Another issue is that when mixing colors in the bowl, sometimes the bowl will become nonresponsive and not allow you to use it anymore (you have to stick the bowl in the refrigerator after dumping the contents in the trash, then take the bowl out of the refrigerator and putting a new copy of the old contents back in it from the refrigerator.): http://www.armageddongames.net/forum...d.php?t=102921
The bowl also has a food processor built in. Sometimes, if you put a lot of things with the same name into the food processor (egg[0], egg[1], etc.), certain actions with the food processor will cause the food processor (and the bowl) to stop working, forcing the trash/refrigerator remedy above: http://www.armageddongames.net/forum...d.php?t=103734
That's just 3 of the problems.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
I hate to interrupt this Super Bowl, but... I just wanted to point out some parallels in other projects.
I used to be the jman on another project. Though I've since retired from that project, in my time, I shook up the code base quite a bit.
Quite a few bugs were introduced with my new features, but even more bugs were shook out of the carpet. Alas, all of these bugs were attributed to me. The Freedom of that community expressed similar concerns to those in this thread.
Most of the bugs have since been worked out, either by me or by the _L_ and the Dark Nation. (Some bugs haven't, as they are artifacts of having been ported from Dos to Windows with as few changes to the code base as possible... bad idea, but not mine.)
Anyway, a major view during the whole fiasco was that "Why not just start over?". Well, I did just that.
Turns out, replacing 9+ years worth of work takes, well, 9 years. My replacement project never got off the ground, nor have any others, either ports of the original code, rewrites or independent projects. Only the original code base is still active.
Moral of the story: If anyone wants to see a stable release any time this decade, then a rewrite is not in the cards.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pkmnfrk
I hate to interrupt this Super Bowl, but... I just wanted to point out some parallels in other projects.
I used to be the jman on
another project. Though I've since retired from that project, in my time, I shook up the code base quite a bit.
Quite a few bugs were introduced with my new features, but even more bugs were shook out of the carpet. Alas,
all of these bugs were attributed to me. The Freedom of that community expressed similar concerns to those in this thread.
Most of the bugs have since been worked out, either by me or by the
_L_ and the
Dark Nation. (Some bugs haven't, as they are artifacts of having been ported from Dos to Windows with as few changes to the code base as possible... bad idea, but not mine.)
Anyway, a major view during the whole fiasco was that "Why not just start over?". Well, I did just that.
Turns out, replacing 9+ years worth of work takes, well, 9 years.
My replacement project never got off the ground, nor have any others, either ports of the original code, rewrites or independent projects. Only the original code base is still active.
Moral of the story: If anyone wants to see a stable release any time this decade, then a rewrite is not in the cards.
There are cases of it working, so I suppose it depends on the project. Not like I would be doing this on my own anyway, though even working to fix the existing code is difficult with _L_ being the only real active one over the past few weeks.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNation
Well, we could patch the biggest holes in the bowl (the ones that can cause the bowl to break or allow all of your food to spill out) while leaving the smaller holes and scratches for later, if ever. Then, we can make a new bowl, though it won't hold a small percentage of the things that the old bowl held without modifying those things (the new bowl has nice compartments, perhaps, and some of the more messy items have to be folded neatly to fit in the pretty compartments, maybe).
QFT!!! This is exactly what ZC needs. Although if you guys embarked on a new bowl from the ground up we could keep using the old one, that would make the community fanatically mad. If you take maybe the next month or so and all just do what L's been doing these past months, we could have a stable 2.5 that's usable to tide the fans over, and then you could take months or a couple years to rebuild.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Amaster42
QFT!!! This is exactly what I mean, put far better than the kind of convoluted way I put it.
I find it hilarious that you found an extremely thin bowl metaphor less convoluted than what you said
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
When I first started calling for a stable release, NONE of the problems that exist now were there then.
You've done exactly what I said would happen.
You went in and added and connected way too many pipes to the bowl, and now you've got the bowl stopped up, almost beyond repair and all your pipes are leaking uncontrollably.
Now, when you put a wrench on one pipe to stop it from leaking, the bowl is stressed to the point all the other pipes that you've repaired start leaking again.
It's now a never ending cycle of tightening pipes only to have others work loose when you do.
I hate to say it boys, but I told you so. ;)
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Oh, yeah, I edited out what I said, because it was kinda convoluted. The metaphor at least gives you an image to go on. Heh.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
When I first started calling for a stable release, NONE of the problems that exist now were there then.
You've done exactly what I said would happen.
You went in and added and connected way too many pipes to the bowl, and now you've got the bowl stopped up, almost beyond repair and all your pipes are leaking uncontrollably.
Now, when you put a wrench on one pipe to stop it from leaking, the bowl is stressed to the point all the other pipes that you've repaired start leaking again.
It's now a never ending cycle of tightening pipes only to have others work loose when you do.
I hate to say it boys, but I told you so. ;)
+100 for continuing the metaphor.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pkmnfrk
It really could take less time, so long as you had more people to help you, but considering the current activity among the devs, it may actually take longer. Or shorter. _L_'s a mad genius after all.
Perhaps when you get to the rewrite you could just dump NES consistency altogether. And you could refer to and reuse old code, clean it up, port the editor and engine to native GUI, etc...
I mean...
When you make the new bowl, you could forget about making the bowl look the same and worry entirely on all the other functions of it. Then you could take dust from the sieve and reuse it in the ceramic for the new bowl and make it match cosmetically to any table it is put on.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
A stable enough release is fine. The crashes and anything that would destroy a quest needs to fix of course. So what I mean is the big bugs are a must, but little bugs, we can live with them in my opinion. So the bowl will most likely still have cracks but at least the bowl's big holes are patched.
But the thing is, 2.5 is getting stabler than ZC has ever been. And that is awesome. But what I am worried about and kinda still am, is Large Mode. I am just thinking since Large Mode is still being made, it is going to take a lot time for you guys to finish it. Say for example you finish it in January (Large Mode), well, bugs are going to be coming from the new code so that is more bugs to deal with. I am just saying this, without Large Mode, I see ZC 2.5 being released sooner, because of the few bugs for it at this point. However, with Large Mode, I don't know how much time it is going to take as I don't know when it will be finished and what kind of bugs are going to come out of it.
And I am not saying to cancel Large Mode or anything like that. I am just saying this is the reason for the thread. I wanted a progress on what you think is going to come out of it. And thanks for replying, as I sorta have a better idea. So hopefully, all is going well with Large Mode as I want to help kill the bugs for it as soon as possible.
Also, I am the next Freedom/Peteo? If so, that is a good thing, as I look up to them a lot. XD
PS. pkmnfrk should be a new developer. *runs*
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beefster09
It really could take less time, so long as you had more people to help you, but considering the current activity among the devs, it may actually take longer. Or shorter. _L_'s a mad genius after all.
Perhaps when you get to the rewrite you could just dump NES consistency altogether. And you could refer to and reuse old code, clean it up, port the editor and engine to native GUI, etc...
I mean...
When you make the new bowl, you could forget about making the bowl look the same and worry entirely on all the other functions of it. Then you could take dust from the sieve and reuse it in the ceramic for the new bowl and make it match cosmetically to any table it is put on.
Yeah, but the bowls original designer wanted it to be pretty instead of having lots of different compartments and stuff. Now the company he sold it to wants to completely redesign it with lots of compartments, a food processor, a mini fridge, and a back-scratcher to go with it. How do you think the bowls original designer feels? :(
I am, of course, referring to Phantom Menace and his goal of creating a stable, accurate Zelda 1 clone.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Isn't that ZC 1.00?
I have honestly never seen such a complex bowl before. I keep thinking "This is truly the mixing bowl from hell." What an analogy... ... oy, lol.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
At this point I think we already can make a pretty damn close enough clone of The original Zelda. Now it is evolving, and I don't think the future ZC's should keep being so limited by that. If someone would what a stable LoZ clone, I guess that will be 2.5, but beyond that, it is time for something new.
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Well yeah, but it's still Phantom Menace's program. I think the devs should at least go let him know that we're gonna ditch NES consistancy, ya' know? Or, maybe we could just put 'Zelda Classic' to rest and when we rebuild it from scratch, we could call it 'Zelda Classic, But it's Not so Classic Anymore'. :tongue:
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Re: State of Zelda Classic 2.5
Me? I think it may be just a little too late for ZC.
Even if a stable 2.5 could come out tomorrow, what good would it do? Honestly, think about it for a moment. To be fair, I don't keep up with you all enough to make a complete, in-depth analysis of the situation, but as an outside observer one thing is clear, and it has been clear since long before I requested my ban from PureZC: The ZC community has poisoned itself from the inside out.
How many quest projects have been abandoned by the beta wait? Is it even possible to count them all? The general mindset amongst the community of "This is a beta version, so you shouldn't use it yet, even though everything new and exciting you can only get by using this new beta" doesn't help at all either. It's not a very good environment for new ZC users, since they look at this mindset and say "Well, if I use an old version, then my project will look like an outdated piece of crap. But if I use the betas, I'll run the risk of ZC magically corrupting all my hard work and forcing me to start over. I'm just not going to bother." As such, how many users have joined ZC since the beta marathon started? Maybe more than my imagination is guessing, but certainly far less than before.
Not to mention that the community itself has all but torn itself to bits. This was partially due to the "Wait for the stable" mindset, but mostly, it was our fault as a whole. Admittedly, I'm more guilty here than anyone else, but I'm pretty sure the ZC community can't possibly hate me any more than it already does, so I'm alright with that. Above everything else, what happened is that needless, mindless disputes broke out that did nothing but divide the ZC community, and these divided parts all collapsed under their own weight. Remember the whole Z3 Scrolling fiasco? _L_ suggesting to remove Big Link? Lost Isle? All of the other countless things that flared up (Freedom, Peteo, and I all had major parts in this)?
And so what if 2.5 is stable? For most questmakers, the betas were only so interesting because they had fun and exciting new features that they wanted to try out. Well, new features stopped being added long ago, and the "Wait for the stable" mindset has already convinced these people to put their projects away into a dusty attic where they've already been covered with toxic mold and been mostly devoured by rats. The excitement of working with the new features has already faded away from most, and the shiny new label of "Stable!" isn't going to respark any interests. Once more, many people have already left the ZC community almost entirely thanks to the "Wait for the stable" mindset, and their interests have turned to other things, and they probably have things other than ZC to think about now. To them, ZC is just an old hobby that crosses their mind once in a while, and a new "stable" version isn't enough to make them want to come back. I know that I'm not coming back.
A "stable" label on a new release will do hardly anything to rekindle ZC's dying flame, and what good is code if it isn't used? You can patch up that bowl as much as you like, but the table you're going to put it down on to eat dinner is lying in burning pieces on the floor, all the food in your fridge has spoiled, and your wife has already called for Pizza.