[5th Quest Entry] CJC

Spoiler: show

A few significant changes have been made to the quest as of 1-25-2014, mostly regarding the overworld and late dungeons. If you have not played Level 7 this version should be (mostly) compatible with your save; otherwise stick to the older version to complete the quest.

EDIT: Fixed a few whoops errors... Ama is supposed to be the bribe subject below the White Sword and there was a whistle trigger in Dungeon 7 that should not have been there.
CJC5th_02-08-14.zip

Changes in this version:

Spoiler: show

1.) The Lens will not help you in the puzzles of Level 9 anymore. Or rather, it will but it will be a troll about it. Prepare to have your brain teased.
2.) The item in Level 7 is now the Dungeon Tile (4-way ladder). The Amulet has been moved to a shop in the overworld and certain rooms have had their layouts changed accordingly. The Amulet is not necessary to beat the game but will make things much easier.
3.) The Ganon fight has another feature now! Bring rupees and use your bow, but be sure to save one for the final blow or you are doomed!
4.) There is now a shop in the overworld SOMEWHERE that sells potions without the letter. The prices are atrocious, though, so make your decision accordingly.

CJC5th.qst (Google Docs Zip, in the menu select File->Download. File Size 290 KB)
EDIT [8-30-2013 19:53 GMT -6]: File has been updated to make Dungeon 2 easier to find and a little less hare-pulling horrible.
EDIT [8-31-2013 13:46 GMT -6]: Fixed a finicky flag in Dungeon 5. Pre-emptive warning to players about Boomerang blocks... try them a couple times as sometimes they do not react to the first strike. The problem seems to be the worst when throwing from the north.
EDIT [9-01-2013 1:50 GMT -6]: Replaced combos in certain rooms of Dungeons 5, 6, and 7 to prevent a hold-up if the player goes out on the ladder before using the Whistle.
EDIT [9-01-2013 5:32 GMT -6]: Made some minor adjustments to Dungeon 5 to make finding the lens less of a snot-fest.
EDIT [9-14-2013 23:37 GMT -6]: Made some difficulty adjustments to the three unique enemies before Ganon in Dungeon 9. Their fights will be much more engaging now, but hopefully not too tedious. Hint: Pay attention to strings, there are hints to defeat these enemies easily (well, easier) somewhere in the quest.
EDIT [10-31-2013 22:33 GMT -6]: Did a once-over on Level 2 to make it less of a murderbox. There are now three entrances to the room with the Bow and the room with the Arrow. The third is blatantly obvious if you happen to go down the center of Gohma's brow before you have the bow (and you somehow defeat the Pols with your sword).
EDIT [12-26-2013 14:06 GMT -6]: Made some difficulty adjustments to the final hallway in the quest. The Silver Arrow is also much more effective in the final confrontation.

The quest is in the Classic-style (as dictated by the contest rules). It features two minor scripts, both of which can be found in the ZScript buffer. The quest is unpassworded, so feel free to open it up and take a look around. But don't look in Enemies unless you want spoilers.


Gameplay is very difficult, intended to fall roughly between the intensity of 4th and 3rd. You will want to enter every dungeon with full health, and preferably a few bombs as well.

Here are some hints if you're having trouble:

Spoiler: show

You won't be able to find extra Heart Containers in the wilderness (well, the one on the Beach is still there), but you can find bomb bag upgrades. Bombs are very important in this quest, especially when your health is low in the first few dungeons. They're a very effective way to defeat certain difficult enemies.

Dungeons have multiple entrances. If you cannot find a way forward, try leaving the dungeon and looking for another way in.

Bribery can be helpful more than once. Try each of the guy's prices if you are stuck

When you get an item that does not deplete resources, that means you should be using it constantly. This goes double for the Whistle. If you're stuck, try using the whistle.

Keep your distance from Lizalfos. As bad as their swords may be, their touch damage is much worse.

Blue Like Likes will charge at you. Try to avoid getting into positions where they line up with you.

Always kill Bombchus at a distance.

You are going to have to choose between Heart Containers and really good equipment. The game can be completed regardless of what choices you make, but I recommend being consistent (if you take equipment, ALWAYS take equipment. If you take hearts, ALWAYS take hearts).

The Lens is your friend. Do not leave it neglected in your inventory.

If you enter a dungeon and there are no doorways, it is a Gauntlet that you are supposed to return to later. These rooms have a single walk-through wall and Ama with a warning about which item will be needed to proceed. Attempting to proceed regardless of the warning will not bode well.

Other than that, enjoy! Hopefully the gameplay is gripping enough to keep you hooked. Knowing what I was doing, it took me 7:24 to beat it with all Hearts and 5:32 to beat it with all items (32 deaths on the former, 27 on the latter... though those are inflated by testing).


EDIT: Whoops, word confusion with Entrant and Entry. Just pretend it says Entry from this point out.

Congrats, you are nominated for the "Wow, are you done already? -That's what she said" award. :P

I kinda don't like this quest's overall presentation.

Is it fun? Yes
Is it good? Yes
Does it fit the requirement specs: Not at all. The subscreen's changed, there are like 3 entrances per level, and lock blocks (ugh). And this is only Level 1. (and kinda marching around without a key after using the boss key on a block, which I absolutely loathe, but that's not an authenticity error). I feel this has more of a "custom quest with the Z1 Overworld" type of feel and not enough in the NES authenticity area. You might want to rethink this one and fix some of these things.

-James

I'm glad you think that it's fun. That was more important to me than NES consistency.
The subscreen is actually identical to the one that was present in 4th quest (which was altered to make room for the Boss Key), with only one change: I widened the B item box to make room for two new items. Since 5th is supposed to follow 4th it will be a less jarring change than say, jumping from 1st to this quest.

There are multiple entrances to every level but Ganon's. There's a pay-for-info room that details this; I should probably move it to a more obvious place than 'the tree on the corner'.
3 (+1), 3 (+1), 3 (+1), 3 (+1), 2, 2, 2, 3, 1.
While I could probably just connect them with passageways instead, the multiple entrances DO grant two advantages: one as a quest maker and the other as a player.
As a quest maker it lets me fill up more overworld space with meaningful content, rather than sprinkling additional 'pay for the door' and 'secret money' caves. As a player, it presents a shorter backslide when subjected to Wall Masters and Wind attacks, as well as breaks the dungeon up into clearly digestible segments (Okay, I'm going to play until I reach the end of this entrance, then I'll save and quit).

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and lock blocks (ugh).

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The lock blocks are used just like any other flag trigger. I make sure to only use one per screen, and if I do then I do not place any other secrets on that screen (because if the Lock Block WERE a flag, it would trigger those secrets). Lock Blocks only make appearances in Dungeon 1 and Dungeon 8, where they are used to inflate the number of keys to travel in another direction. That said, I DO use locks, burn triggers, hammer triggers, boomerang triggers, magic triggers, and arrow triggers in the dungeons; that could be construed as 'un-NES'.
EDIT: Oh, and whistle triggers.
I've used these in the more modern Zelda sense: the triggers exist to serve as 'gates' that only an equipment 'key' can unlock.

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(and kinda marching around without a key after using the boss key on a block, which I absolutely loathe, but that's not an authenticity error).

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You need to bomb a wall in the entrance with the locks; a Goriya will explain that there are only eight keys in the dungeon and you need to purchase the ninth (he'll also tell you there's a moblin with the money to do so if you pay enough for the info)
EDIT: I should probably make that an open doorway... just until players get used to the pace of the quest.

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I feel this has more of a "custom quest with the Z1 Overworld" type of feel and not enough in the NES authenticity area. You might want to rethink this one and fix some of these things.

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Thank you for the input. Much of the game's flow is dependent on the changes I made... so I don't think I'll be able to 'reel it in' (My schedule is about to clog up, which is why I pushed to finish it now). At this stage the only changes I can really make are triage to fix oversights (like access to important hints).

If you DO enjoy the gameplay, I urge you to try to make it through the quest. The end has a few... surprises.

God darn it. This tells me that I need to get working and step on it for my entrant. The all I have done are some of the overworld secrets and the layout of the first five dungeons (with the first fully furnished).
While my entrant will be quite NES-like in terms of design and authenticity (as dictated by the rules), I have a few new nasty enemies at my disposal... Just wait until you go to Level 4 to experience the true ingenuity taste of these enemies.

BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

-James

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

-James

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Ama warned ye! An ye dinnae listen, didje?


I've nerfed Dungeon 2 a little bit so that it is a more bearable early-game endeavor. Abei no longer forces a Negafairy down your throat each time you enter, he'll make you suffer the once and then he'll bugger off (free shop changed to Special Item). I also reduced the number of enemies in the dungeon and blasted open the two main entrances so that it has the same number of 'apparent' entrances as the other three starter dungeons.
The new file can be found at the link in the first post; I have removed the older version and stashed it on my PC to be kept on record.

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

BTW CJC, fuck you and your invisible 4-heart damaging enemy in Level 2! What are you doing, playing Green Ninja too much? lol

-James

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Oh hey, that's pretty funny considering Green Ninja wasn't even hard at all. Maybe I should make a special version with no enemies where you go around and collect barbie dolls and accessorize them instead. Would you like that better? ;)


For the quest: I played a bit of LV 1 and have to say that this is a really, really, REALLY big stretch from the 4th quest and the NES quests in general. Other than that, no comment since I haven't gotten very far at all.

Am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet, or did someone forget to put a flag in the room west of the Triforce in Lv. 5? Is this a bad me, or a whoops?

-James

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

Am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet, or did someone forget to put a flag in the room west of the Triforce in Lv. 5? Is this a bad me, or a whoops?

-James

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It's a whoops, but not as severe as you think. I accidentally used a Vertical push flag instead of a four-way. You need to push up on a certain stone to get it to move. I'll fix it as soon as I can.

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Originally Posted by CJC

It's a whoops, but not as severe as you think. I accidentally used a Vertical push flag instead of a four-way. You need to push up on a certain stone to get it to move. I'll fix it as soon as I can.

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Let me know when you release the new version.

-James

It's ready. I did a quick run-through of the remaining dungeons in ZQuest with flags visible and that's the only error I saw.

I was having a little trouble with the sharing options on Google Drive. It's fixed now.

Lv. 7, boss door, no way to get in. Am I missing something, did you forget a Whistle->Stairs on the screen north, or am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet to push statues that I missed somewhere?

-James

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

Lv. 7, boss door, no way to get in. Am I missing something, did you forget a Whistle->Stairs on the screen north, or am I missing a Lv. 2 Bracelet to push statues that I missed somewhere?

-James

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Make sure you're not standing on the ladder when you use the whistle. The trigger flags are all over the floor, but I couldn't place them on the water (because the water has the secret flags attached). I tried disabling the ladder on this screen with the 'Toggle Ladder' screenflag, but it seems to have no effect.
I could make a separate 'whistle water' combo that has the whistle flag inherited... that might resolve the issue. Just keep trying the whistle in that room (preferably while NOT on the ladder) until the water drains out.

EDIT: I've updated the file with a second 'water' combo that has the Whistle Trigger flag inherent upon it. This I used to replace the water in the three Whistle->Drain rooms the quest has. I tested it on the ladder and on the floor a few times and it's working for me. Let me know if you're still experiencing problems.

That wasn't the bug I was reporting, it was the screen north of the boss door entrance to Lv. 7, where I THINK there should be a 2nd entrance to Lv. 7, but it's not showing up (on the East Ocean).

The screen with the Heart Container leads to a boss door with no way to open it.

-James

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

That wasn't the bug I was reporting, it was the screen north of the boss door entrance to Lv. 7, where I THINK there should be a 2nd entrance to Lv. 7, but it's not showing up (on the East Ocean).

The screen with the Heart Container leads to a boss door with no way to open it.

-James

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Oh, so you missed the other entrance to Level 7, that's what happened. Go one screen south and use your lens. You'll find a peculiar bomb wall on that screen. You're going to want to use your lens repeatedly in this dungeon. When you encounter perma-jinx bubbles, turn back until you've found the amulet. Also... passageways may not lead back to the place they originated from...

I don't have the Lens yet, but I found it anyway. Where is the Lens anyway?

-James

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Originally Posted by Nightmare

I don't have the Lens yet, but I found it anyway. Where is the Lens anyway?

-James

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Dungeon 5, Whistle Entrance. Bomb the north wall in the second room, feed the goriya, go east one room, kill the armos statues like likes and the Fokka, and burn a bush next to one of them. ...Maybe some of the bushes should be recolored to make it more obvious.

EDIT: Didn't recolor the bush, but I did move the item drop so that it's not a red herring anymore. Also, I added one of the rooms to the dmap so that players know to start exploring in that direction.

Well CJC, I don't know if I'll be a judge yet, but here's how I'd rate your quest with a few quckies:

Difficulty: 93/100, lose the Gold Darknut in 3. Too powerful.

Fun Factor: 85/100, don't like playing safe cracker too much, please do something about that. Otherwise, fun.

NES authenticity: 0/100. It's a good quest, it's fun, but it's "a custom quest using the Zelda 1 OW that doesn't meet the design specs." You should turn this into a different tileset or even Demo and release it under a new name, like "TLoZ: The Final Frontier." The quest is good and I think people will enjoy it.

Overall score: 59.3/100 (you know why)

-James

Thank you Nightmare for playing through to the bitter end. I know it's an unorthodox entry for the contest, and I'm glad you were willing to put that aside for the sake of saving Zelda.

Informal Poll
Nightmare has expressed distaste for the Bombchus. Who else dislikes their presence in the quest? Would replacing them with an alternative kind of Peahat be an acceptable alternative?

Started playing this as I almost finished with my own entry, found a potential bug (or simply something I just don't get)
Attachment 104

When you bomb the wall here for the secret room the whole bottom part does something weird. I don't know if this was intentional or not.

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Originally Posted by Love For Fire

Started playing this as I almost finished with my own entry, found a potential bug (or simply something I just don't get)
Attachment 104

When you bomb the wall here for the secret room the whole bottom part does something weird. I don't know if this was intentional or not.

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It was intentional: it's a hint for later. Travel south through one of those opened pathways and you will learn:

Spoiler: show

there are spots on the overworld that appear solid but are not. This hint is essential to navigate the maze one screen south, which blocks the path to Dungeon 3

You will encounter similar oddities on certain screens when walking enemies begin to climb mountains (If you had hung around long enough on the screen, you'd have seen the Octoroks walking on the mountains that turned to sand when you bombed the cave. The quest has several situations like this but this is one of the few that is easily discovered (for the purposes I described in the spoiler). You will acquire a tool in Level 5 that will help you find these paths, even on screens where a secret would not reveal them (or they might not be easy to spot).


Thank you for your diligence!

Voting is now open for this quest. Vote for as many categories as you please, but be sure to vote before tax day!

Also, please post in this thread stating which categories you selected and explaining why you picked those categories.

I have updated the quest file. The updates only apply to Dungeon 9, particularly the very end of the dungeon. Without spoilers, I will just say that the arrow is now much more effective in the final confrontation. Remember to save a rupee for that last shot or it will all be over!

I just started this quest. If Level 1 is any indication, it might be some time before I get to another one.

"Bat-**** crazy" is the most appropriate phrase I can think of right now.

Is that really a bad thing?


Don't worry about the wind attacks, they won't make a return appearance until Dungeon 8, and then you have the option to avoid that room entirely.
As for the potent enemies, I tried to use high-powered enemies in small numbers in the early dungeons to get the player's adrenaline pumping... before I introduced new enemy concepts.

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Originally Posted by CJC

Is that really a bad thing?

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Nothing wrong with it at all ... but at the least, there's NO way I could vote for this as an 'official 5th quest'. What I've seen so far is nothing short of astounding (and I'm still working through Level 2), but it's too far removed from the original for it to be considered.

At the same time: I'm keeping this quest around long after I've completed it. And very inspirational to those interested in creating their own quests.

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

Nothing wrong with it at all ... but at the least, there's NO way I could vote for this as an 'official 5th quest'. What I've seen so far is nothing short of astounding (and I'm still working through Level 2), but it's too far removed from the original for it to be considered.

At the same time: I'm keeping this quest around long after I've completed it. And very inspirational to those interested in creating their own quests.

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Same thing I said. it's an awesome quest and really fun, but probably like Shoelace's, too far removed to even be considered. It's sad.

-James

The more I play through this quest, the more I lean towards rescinding my earlier comments regarding '5th quest' qualification.

The facts remain: the overworld is the same (save for the locations of 'lost' areas), the enemies in the overworld are the same (but watch your wallet vs blue Moblins!), the dungeons have the same color scheme, and the scripts are mostly the same.

At the same time, CJC has clearly taken the notion of 'classic quest' to the next level. Multiple dungeon entrances. Meaningful 'Take Any One You Want' choices (which will likely force me to play through this quest twice). New Items. New secrets. New enemies, beyond the 'color-swap' type.

This, to me, is an evolution of the 'classic quest' genre. If it doesn't actually win, I could see it being the 'jumping off point' for future challenges. Absolutely superb!


One complaint: FAR TOO MANY BOMBS available!

One 'typo' to report: the screen one down and one to the right of the NW corner has two staircases, only one of which can be accessed immediately.

Phew! Just finished what I have to consider to be as 'epic' a quest as one can have using the original OVW.

Exceptionally imaginative. And anyone who's seen "The Cube" can appreciate the tricks in a number of these dungeons.

I feel compelled to try this again, as ...

Spoiler: show

I need to try it by taking the HCs over the items, both for the challenge and the chance to use the Master Sword. I don't like how the Letter is one of the 4 'give up' items, but there seems to be enough potion in the dungeons to make up for this. The other items are pure luxury, especially the 'orange ring', as it comes at the same time as the (inferior, I assume) red ring.

For all that, though, this feels more like a beginning than an ending.

A lot of the tricks seemed to be there more to showcase the tricks rather than improve the quality of the game. The sequence of rooms along the right-hand column in Level 9, for example, showcased a lot of new ideas ... but was particularly easy, considering that ...

Spoiler: show

the Lens reveals everything, at no cost. Maybe makes things too easy.

Another instance:

Spoiler: show

The Amulet is a great item, IMHO, but once it's introduced, is there really a need to continue to have so many rooms with nothing but red sword- and item-bubbles? I think it might play better to make the Amulet one of the 'luxury' items, and use such rooms a little more sporadically.

Whether the lack of authenticity hurts its chances, I cannot say. (I am certainly reconsidering my initial thoughts on that matter.) What I really see in this quest, is a 'First Quest' all its own, upon which others can build harder, similar quests.

No matter what, this is the first quest that truly 'blew me away', particularly the later portions of Level 9. Not just the Ganon battle, but the battles before that one. Very well done.

Kudos on such an enjoyable experience.

BTW, one nagging question:

Spoiler: show

I found a cave with an old lady, selling very cheap, very useful items. I didn't find this until after I had gotten the Letter. Could I have still used this store without the Letter?

I suppose I can find out when I play through the quest a second time, but that will have to wait until I finish all the other entries.

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

Phew! Just finished what I have to consider to be as 'epic' a quest as one can have using the original OVW.

Exceptionally imaginative. And anyone who's seen "The Cube" can appreciate the tricks in a number of these dungeons.

I feel compelled to try this again, as ...

Spoiler: show

I need to try it by taking the HCs over the items, both for the challenge and the chance to use the Master Sword. I don't like how the Letter is one of the 4 'give up' items, but there seems to be enough potion in the dungeons to make up for this. The other items are pure luxury, especially the 'orange ring', as it comes at the same time as the (inferior, I assume) red ring.

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Spoiler: show

Yes, the red ring is inferior because it only quarters damage, while the orange ring cuts it to one eighth. I made it the payout for the L7 gauntlet because, unless you leave the dungeon, you'd play it with the red ring and then have the orange ring for the last two dungeons.

In response to your earlier comment about the bombs, perhaps I'll replace some of the bomb upgrades with Blue Potion special item rooms, so that players who skip the letter still have some chance to stock up before a dungeon. It was my intent that they'd go back to old dungeons with the Lens to find the potions hidden there, but there still might not be enough for struggling players who passed on the lens. Perhaps one of the secrets will feature a VERY expensive blue potion (250 rupees) to get players by until they get the L9 boss key.

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

For all that, though, this feels more like a beginning than an ending.

A lot of the tricks seemed to be there more to showcase the tricks rather than improve the quality of the game. The sequence of rooms along the right-hand column in Level 9, for example, showcased a lot of new ideas ... but was particularly easy, considering that ...

Spoiler: show

the Lens reveals everything, at no cost. Maybe makes things too easy.

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Hmm... perhaps I can use a script to make that item less useful in the dungeon....

Spoiler: show

The intent was for players to think back to the dungeons they played earlier and the items that they acquired, and solve the puzzle accordingly. The lock represents level 8, the gauntlet of bubbles and enemies serves as a reminder of the amulet from level 7, and then each block in the string works its way back until the burn flag in level 1

EDIT: Ah, I know what to do! If I make the floor black tiles and use the cave combo or a 'blank' stair combo... brilliant!

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

Another instance:

Spoiler: show

The Amulet is a great item, IMHO, but once it's introduced, is there really a need to continue to have so many rooms with nothing but red sword- and item-bubbles? I think it might play better to make the Amulet one of the 'luxury' items, and use such rooms a little more sporadically.

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Hmmm... it's a thought. The rooms described were meant to deter the player until they acquired the item in question, but considering 3rd quest having required paths like that perhaps it could do with a little tweaking.

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

Whether the lack of authenticity hurts its chances, I cannot say. (I am certainly reconsidering my initial thoughts on that matter.) What I really see in this quest, is a 'First Quest' all its own, upon which others can build harder, similar quests.

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I hadn't thought of that... perhaps it would be a good candidate for Brave New World (the other contest wherein we build a new foundation with a new overworld to start a new sequence of numbered quests).

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

No matter what, this is the first quest that truly 'blew me away', particularly the later portions of Level 9. Not just the Ganon battle, but the battles before that one. Very well done.

Kudos on such an enjoyable experience.

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I'm glad you enjoyed it so much, thank you for playing!

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

BTW, one nagging question:

Spoiler: show

I found a cave with an old lady, selling very cheap, very useful items. I didn't find this until after I had gotten the Letter. Could I have still used this store without the Letter?

I suppose I can find out when I play through the quest a second time, but that will have to wait until I finish all the other entries.

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Spoiler: show

Ah, the super discount shop! Yes, she will not talk to you without the letter, it was a reward for players who chose the letter over the Heart Container

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Originally Posted by Coyotek4

One 'typo' to report: the screen one down and one to the right of the NW corner has two staircases, only one of which can be accessed immediately.

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Ah, I see the typo now... it's specifically a typo related to that item in Level 5. I forgot to remove the 'stairs' flag. Sorry about that! As any classic quest, both stairs would lead to the same place anyway; the one is just completely unaccessable.



EDIT: I've planned some moderate fixes that I need to test before I can roll them out. It is important to note that these fixes are a response to skips in the gameplay and not to actual bugs (which seem to all be handled). Since the changes are dramatic and would require players in progress to restart the game, I'm going to inform in spoiler what they will be so that players in progress can decide whether or not they want to switch to the new version.

Items

Spoiler: show

The first item in dungeon 7 will be changed from the Amulet (A whisp ring) to the Floor Tile (A level 2 ladder). As such, several rooms are having their floorplans changed and the number of red and yellow perma-bubbles has been reduced to compensate for the lack of protection. This affects the last three dungeons and the last HC Guantlet.
The Amulet has been moved to a hidden location on the overworld, where it can be purchased for 255 rupees (technically it can be purchased again and again like the Blue Ring; this is a shortcoming of the engine and cannot be avoided.

The Amulet feels like a 'reward' item for one of the money-or-life choices. Since I did not want to eliminate one of the other rewards, I decided to pair the Amulet with the HC on the overworld beach (it was stolen by a moblin). This makes it the only reward item the player can acquire without sacrificing a HC.


Also, the Fire Boomerang will be removed from the game and replaced with the Power Wand. The loss of stunning capability will be replaced with a massive boost of ranged firepower (4 damage before level 6) and the ability to harm Wizzrobes with this wand. In order to make the mechanic function, the Magic Book's damage boost will have to be reduced from 2 to 1 (is it really that noticeable?). With magic book, the wand will be more powerful than the Magic Sword for combat against enemies that do not block magic.


Finally, The Master Sword will be able to 'purify' negative bubbles, turning them into blue bubbles.

Overworld

Spoiler: show

Three bomb upgrade spots will be removed from the overworld, as I did not realize how copiously I had sprinkled them across the map. In their place you will find a potion shop (Near to start on the way to Death Mountain), a cryptic hint, and a Goriya Restaurant that sells potions without the letter (albeit at incredibly high prices) and bait (at a moderate price).

Level 9

Spoiler: show

The Ganon fight script will be updated to be more efficient, and the fight itself may or may not gain another phase.

Also, depending on how well I'm able to get it to work, the puzzle rooms will no longer be quickly solved with the lens and will... well, I'll keep that a surprise. for now

As I said, I need to implement and test these changes before an update. The changes described are intended to smooth some of the end-game flow and make the closing of the quest more enjoyable. As such there is nothing game-breaking that would require you to wait for an update. If you are currently playing the quest, I recommend continuing as you were and then downloading the update for your (hopefully) second playthrough (because of my greedy tricky mechanic).


As always, a big thanks to everyone who has been playing and supplying feedback.


EDIT EDIT: The quest file has been updated. You may use the same save file if you have not started Level 7.

What can I say? I agree with most of the above comments. This is a very good map in almost every respect. A good amount of challenge, nice puzzles and layout, nothing overdone.
One thing I really liked about this quest is that it did something that I would have done if I made a quest, and that was make the decisions for the "free" heart containers real decisions. Normally, choosing between a heart container and a red potion is an easy choice- why would anyone ever choose the potion, except to add to the challenge?
There are a total of 3 problems that I noted in the map. In order of increasing severity:
1) In the overworld, on the 2nd row down, 15th screen right (one south of the letter in 1st quest), the lens revealed a cave, but I couldn't get to it. Unlike the other hidden paths, I couldn't walk this one. Unfortunately, I am not versed enough in the quest editor to determine what the problem was (I don't know how the flags and such work)

2) In dungeon 7, I couldn't find the way into the the room which the editor shows has the red ring. Again, even using the editor to check, I couldn't find the way in (no warps to that screen, so paths leading in- there is a shutter door blocking the only connection to the main dungeon, and it didn't open when I cleared the room while playing) Since noone else commented on this, I think I
may have missed something obvious, but I couldn't find it.

3) And this is what many others have said- it really added too much stuff to be a good "5th quest." Just looking at the new items, there are powered-up versions of 5 standard items, and 4 new items. Multiple entrances per dungeon.Powered up versions (multiple levels) of most creatures. at least 7 or 8 new dungeon features. Probably a bunch more categories that I missed here. I could have seen introducing a few of these in each of a 5th, 6th, and 7th quest, but all at once is too much of a jump. As stated by others before me, this would be a great starting point for a new sequence of quests.

That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

So, CJC, you did too good with this. :D

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Originally Posted by Zweldron

There are a total of 3 problems that I noted in the map. In order of increasing severity:
1) In the overworld, on the 2nd row down, 15th screen right (one south of the letter in 1st quest), the lens revealed a cave, but I couldn't get to it. Unlike the other hidden paths, I couldn't walk this one. Unfortunately, I am not versed enough in the quest editor to determine what the problem was (I don't know how the flags and such work)

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That was an oops on my part. I made the walking mountains by creating a combo that uses the same tile but has clear walkability. If you press 'W' on that screen the solid spots will turn pink. If you press 'f' it will reveal the flags. The flags below the bomb are hookshot flags I used to demark where the ground was walkable, but I forgot to make that ground non-solid on that screen!
With the 'w' key pressed, the combos will also show solidity. You'll see one mountain tile near the six that is non-solid, if you switch to CSet 3 (press the + key while in the editor) and select that combo you can correct the error.
If I get to the finals I will release an update, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen!

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Originally Posted by Zweldron

2) In dungeon 7, I couldn't find the way into the the room which the editor shows has the red ring. Again, even using the editor to check, I couldn't find the way in (no warps to that screen, so paths leading in- there is a shutter door blocking the only connection to the main dungeon, and it didn't open when I cleared the room while playing) Since noone else commented on this, I think I
may have missed something obvious, but I couldn't find it.

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You have to push one of the key's eyes. It's tricky because the only way you can push the block is onto another block.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zweldron

3) And this is what many others have said- it really added too much stuff to be a good "5th quest." Just looking at the new items, there are powered-up versions of 5 standard items, and 4 new items. Multiple entrances per dungeon.Powered up versions (multiple levels) of most creatures. at least 7 or 8 new dungeon features. Probably a bunch more categories that I missed here. I could have seen introducing a few of these in each of a 5th, 6th, and 7th quest, but all at once is too much of a jump. As stated by others before me, this would be a great starting point for a new sequence of quests.

That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

So, CJC, you did too good with this. :D

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Yeah, I think I got so excited about the contest that I just went overboard. I'm ecstatic that everybody has enjoyed the quest so far, but disappointed that I'm going to lose.
Thanks for playing, Zweldron!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zweldron

That last point is the only real negative I can give this quest- and that is only because of the contest requirements! This quest earns an overall 4.07 / 5 from me, easily putting it as the best of the 8 contest quests I've played, but I cannot recommend it for the actual 5th quest.

So, CJC, you did too good with this. :D

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Glad I'm not the only person to say this! I think the hardest part of this contest (at least determining the winner) is not only finding a quest that's fun, but one that would fit in with the NES specs and requirements as well. As a result, I don't think the "most fun" quest will win this contest, mostly because of that. There are technical and specs that you need to follow in order to make it authentic, and you have to rate it with that in mind.

So CJC, going to say this to you once, and once only: FIX YOUR GOD DAMN BUGS IN RESKINNED! MAKE IT ACCESSIBLE AND NOT BUGGY! (do I make myself clear? lol)

-James