Everybody hates this quest so I quit but here's the link if you want to play it anyway
http://www.purezc.net/index.php?page...&id=439http://
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Everybody hates this quest so I quit but here's the link if you want to play it anyway
http://www.purezc.net/index.php?page...&id=439http://
where is it?
Whoops, I guess his post was moderated because it was his first post on AGN. Fixed!
Voting is now open for this quest. Vote for as many categories as you please, but be sure to vote before tax day!
Also, please post in this thread stating which categories you selected and explaining why you picked those categories.
I'm casting a null vote for any of the categories for this one, if anybody is wondering.
And the review:
Now for your judging that I can see:
Difficulty: 20/100
Way too easy. This will not fit in well with the 3rd and 4th Quests.
Why did you change the shop prices to be easier?
NES authenticity: 50/100
Enemy groups broken severely, not even mentions or jokes on the classic enemy sets.
WAY too many new room formations. The NES had a limit on number of rooms due to cartridge size.
Fun Factor: 70/100
Overworld was too much like the NES quests. You might want to change your secrets around a bit.
Please make the HC's harder to find!
Why did you have so many empty rooms?
Overall grade: 46.67/100
I finished this quest about two weeks ago but haven't yet had time to give it a proper review. Below are my thoughts.
The quest begins promisingly. The new stalfos in level 1 are a nice touch and fun to fight. The alternate music is nice given how many other quests are in this competition (though the music isn't really a plus or minus, since I anticipate the winning entry having the original music for NES-authenticity's sake).
I had fun romping through this quest; unfortunately I think this quest contains a bit too many poorly implemented features that prevent it from being a solid contender.
After level 1, I did some exploring and became very powerful quite quickly. Heart containers aren't too difficult too find (many are in key locations from quests 1-2). I don't think that giving away the magic boomerang for free is a good idea; it's too powerful. It's possible to have the magic sword (also easy to find) by the start of level 5. Even without the magic sword, the dungeons are too short and the difficulty is too easy. I honestly zero-gamed the quest (though I used a potion in level 8), and I did not even find the blue ring (I did find the red ring).
Further detracting from the length of dungeons are unnecessary old-man messages such as "Are you ready for the challenge ahead?" and "The wall north of the green trees is an illusion" (which anyone who has played the 2nd quest should know as a given).
By level 4, there are lots of mixed enemy groups, which takes away from NES-authenticity.
In no particular order, some other gripes I had:
(1) The cave 2E,1S of the lost hills (has 30 rupees in the first quest) - imo, don't ever include a door repair charge for that much money.
(2) The boulders 1E of Quest1-Level6 don't move.
(3) In the southwest-most room of level 2, the move-able block can only be pushed in one direction. Same in the arrow-shaped room in level 3 + the blue candle room in level 4. Blocks should be able to be pushed from any side!
(4) In level 7, after having already introduced more powerful wall masters, why go back to the old wall masters?
(5) A fire boomerang? Looks like blue wizzrobes are no longer a problem, even without the blue ring.
(6) In level 7..."It's you'r money or you'r life"...come on.
Level 8 was kinda fun to explore, and I liked how you awarded the. The door repair charge within the dungeon is a nice feature that I haven't yet seen in other entries (thankfully it was only 20 rupees).Spoiler: show
There are too many enemy-less rooms in level 9. This is one of the few large dungeons in terms of number of rooms, but it might as well be smaller given the empty rooms.
While this was fun to play, I don't see this quest winning the competition.
Did someone really say this quest was "too easy"? Every overworld creature is twice as strong, there's no candle or magic shield to take early, and the first rooms in Level 1 are a gauntlet!
OK, I'm done with this one.
I'm certainly not the strongest Zelda player ever. I never challenged myself with a 'swordless run' or '3 Heart run'. Still, I consider myself at least average, perhaps above average.
I got through all 4 'official quests', as well as 4 of the '5th quest' candidates.
I cannot even start this one.
The whole overworld feels like 'Zelda on acid'. All the creatures, apart from having different color palettes (hurting the 'authenticity', though I wouldn't care too much) have double the strength and defense (or more!). There's no way to get a magic shield early ... and it's pretty much required to start. Level 1 is small but incredibly difficult.
I've already lost about 20 lives, and am calling it quits.
I don't know if I'm playing a different version of the quest, but I cannot believe for one second that those who've commented before me have played what I've tried.
Sorry.
EDIT: gave it one more try. After losing about a dozen more lives, I finally got through Level 1.
Still don't know how much longer I'm willing to work through this.
Quick update: got through the first two Levels, and even found two HCs (almost right next to each other). Still no White Sword or Blue Ring.
The first room in Level 3 is the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm officially done.
It looks like that may be the case. The version I played certainly didn't have stronger overworld enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyotek4
This post by boram_c on Nov 9 over at PureZC looks to be consistent with the version that I played (including easy to obtain HCs) -
http://www.purezc.net/forums/index.p...hl=%2Btravster
Looking at some timestamps...on Pure (http://www.purezc.net/index.php?page=quests&id=439), it looks like the quest was originally released on Nov 1 and there was an update made on Nov 11 (which is the date of the first post of this thread). According to my own timestamps, I downloaded the quest on Nov 7.
Not wanting to leave any quest unfinished ... even this one ... I decided to 'cheat': I accessed the quest through the editor to find (a) the white & magic swords, (b) the magic shield, (c) the blue ring, and (d) the blue candle.
Once I found where they were, I went for those items. The candle won't come up during the first three Levels. Without that, there's no blue ring or magic shield, and without those, there's no frikkin' chance in hell.
FYI: it's not easy finding the white sword. My personal opinion is: make the white sword relatively easy, and the magic sword relatively hard (but still fair).
Fortunately, it wasn't hard to get to the candle; once I had that, and saved enough money (I did NOT look up where any hidden money stashes were), I got the two items I feel necessary for completion, and finished Levels 3 and (an easier) 4. As I also got all 5 HCs (4 of which are way too close to each other, I should add), I was able to upgrade to the magic sword.
Even with the blue ring, magic sword, and magic shield, Levels 5 through 8 are no walk in the park (which, to be fair, is probably a good thing). I think Level 8 is missing a map, but otherwise, no 'unfairness' issues.
I think too much of Level 9 dumps you back to start, though again, this is personal taste.
I did finish this quest this morning, but I never would have done so without looking up stuff; as such, I have no guilty conscience about marking 'could not complete'. Whatever the quest was that others completed before me, it wasn't this one.
I'm looking forward to seeing red and blue octoroks again; it'll be like when George Bailey realized he wasn't in Pottersville anymore.
If the overworld (and certain early dungeon rooms) were toned down, or if 'necessary' items were accessible earlier, I could give this quest a chance. As I played it, I cannot do so.
Sorry.
Indeed I updated the quest.
I was told it was way too easy so I revamped the whole thing and tried to make it harder, MUCH harder.
I updated before the deadline so I thought I was alright.
What alternate music? I thought I used the zelda 1 dungeon music.Quote:
The alternate music is nice given how many other quests are in this competition (though the music isn't really a plus or minus, since I anticipate the winning entry having the original music for NES-authenticity's sake).
i never played the first version, but this is certainly hard. the problem is that it isn't FUN hard, its just tedious hard. by level 4 i'd racked up 53 deaths (many of which were on the overworld just searching for ANYTHING to help me). this quest has a lot of issues.
. the colours of the overworld enemies are just horrible. i'm fine with making the enemies stronger, but either choose a better looking colour or just keep the colours the same as Z1.
. while on the topic of powered up overworld enemies, you don't need to kill the player in the 2nd screen. for example, one screen right of the start usually has 4 slow red ockorocks. you put 4 double strength ockorocks plus 2 quad strength ockrocks, all fast moving, all dealing one heart damage. the next screen right of that with the tektikes is just filled with them, and they all take 2 hits with the wooden sword.
. if you want to power up the overworld, choose to either increase the enemy stats OR increase the number of enemies, not both. and if increasing stats choose one or two stats to increase, not everything. you don't need to double the HP, plus the damage they do, plus make them move faster, plus make them shoot faster, plus, plus, plus.
. door repair charge of 100 rupees!!!! really?
. here's the issue with level 1. its not that the difficulty is really that bad (its easier than traversing 10 screens of the overworld). the first room you enter has 7 fireball stalfos, the door locks behind you, and you need to clear the room to either escape or move on. firstly, the fireball stalfos is just dumb, doesn't make sense for stalfos to throw fireballs, sprite something else if you want fireball enemies. secondly, the fireballs make the player think they need the big shield for the dungeon - i go looking for it, die a lot searching the overworld, only to read on here that it isn't available until later. so finally i clear the room and move on to a few rooms later, get killed by a sword throwing stalfos (no shield, huge damage), and have to do the whole thing over again. thanks for giving out the magic boomerang so easy, i wouldn't have cleared the dungeon without it (the wooden boomerang in the dungeon was a total waste, i could have never got to that room without already having the magic boomerang).
. almost every screen in both the overworld and dungeons is just piled high with enemies, and many require killing them all to open the shutter or push a block. its tedious and not fun.
. i had no deaths in level 4. seriously, 53 deaths up to that point, but none in level 4. and the only upgraded equipment i had was the white sword. aside from the boss, i think i could have cleared it start of game easier than level 1. and if i was playing again, knowing where the candle is in the level its really easy to break in, grab it, and go treasure hunting.
. increased numbers of peahats and increased strength.
more later.
That's it I have had it with this contest.
Everybody hated my quest because it was too easy.
They told me "Make this harder and it'll have a chance."
Now everybody hates it because its hard!
I quit!
You can put me down as resigned.
Please don't take any of these comments as insults. It's all constructive criticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Travster
The problem is one of moderation.
I never played the first version. Perhaps it was too easy, but that was after a couple players (perhaps expert players). There wasn't a large enough sample size.
Make it harder? Not a big deal. But you threw too much in, all at once. One analogy that comes to mind: going from an ice-cold shower to one that burns your skin right off.
You need to find the proper middle ground. And, more importantly, playtest the changes you make.
I think if some aspects are toned down, if some objects are more readily available, if other objects (spec. the Magic Boomerang) are less readily available, this could be a good quest.
Don't be so quick to give up.
The contest has already started so doesn't that mean its too late to fix it?
It's fine to make corrections. In fact, that is the goal of this first round of plays, to find what works and what doesn't and to adjust it accordingly. I think I've updated my quest file close to eight times since I submitted it in October. It's alright to make corrections.
But a more important lesson here is not to cave to peer pressure; if you feel that everyone says the quest is too easy but you were happy with the difficulty, then make a stand and say to the forums "I like the way it is, and that's the way it is going to stay". Also, before making big revisions to a quest, be sure to save a back-up somewhere so that you can back-track if necessary.
Believe in yourself and your work, and don't quit until the fat lady sings.
Alright then I will update the quest.
I just wanted someone to like it but pretty much everybody said it was bad.
That's why I felt so discouraged.
But after opening the game back up in zquest and looking at the layout I said
"MY GOD WHAT THE HECK WAS I THINKING"
So now I'm going to
revert overworld enemies to normal, nerf some bosses, cut back on the number of dungeon enemies and replace the fire boomerang
with the magic boomerang (and of course remove the magic boomerang from the overworld).
Hopefully then people will actually enjoy this quest.
I know I was harsh on you first time (I like 0-gamed your first one), but I'm going to second the playtest notion.
Repeating a summary of what I posted in BTJCraft:
If you're 0-gaming it or getting about the same score as the First Quest, it's too easy.
If it's taking you like 100 games, it's too hard.
It's all about balance. Playtest it, improve, get a feel.
-James
I look forward to trying the quest after the update. Maybe make the regular boomerang the one you find on the overworld, and move the magic boomerang into a dungeon? (I haven't tried either version of your quest yet, so I'm not sure where you placed the boomerang, but I think it's a neat idea to have it on the overworld)Quote:
Originally Posted by Travster
i think the quest has a lot of promise. it just needs some tweaking. as nightmare said, playtesting the quest would go a long way to smoothing things out. early game is just brutal, but by level 4 the difficulty levels out and seems about right for the contest. actually other than level 1 and the overworld the difficulty is probably good. my recommendation for the overworld is to guide the player to where you want them to go at the start of the quest, so have easier or less enemies on those screens you want them to visit, and harder enemies everywhere else - and the "easier" screens don't need to be 1st or 2nd quest easy you can still have your poweredup enemies just find the balance. i'd keep the overworld boomerang where you have it, make it the wooden one, and ditch the boomerang in L1, maybe move the clue for it to somewhere on the "easy path".
i just beat level 7 and i gotta say that the level design is among the best of the contest quests i've played - your dungeons are interesting, not too linear and they have good flow. too many of the other contest quest dungeons are just linear gauntlets or mazes of confusing passageways. only criticisms with the dungeons themselves is that a couple might be a little small, the one is a really unusual shape, and i have yet to see an off map screen.
a couple other criticisms
. make your push blocks consistent within the quest - its fine that they are different than 1st or 2nd quest just make them consistent throughout your quest - its one of those factors that adds to the tediousness
. almost every dungeon room is just filled with one type of enemy, mix it up a bit. you could use more bubbles as well.
. less kill all enemies for shutter or block rooms when the enemies are splitting type and when its a room that needs to be travelled numerous times
. play some of the other quests in the contest to see what types of custom enemies they've created. diagonal sword throwing darknuts, charging darknuts, zols that tribble on boomerang hit but die to sword, pols voice that one hit kill with wand instead of arrows, etc. not to say you have bad enemies - i like the fast shooting moblins, and the tribbling goriyas and 4-way sword stalfos are just evil (good evil).
. was your intent for the red zol to be a heart/rupee mining enemy? if you want them to harder than create a custom dropset without the clock. as they are right now its too easy to use them to get back to full health and 200 rupees in less than 30 seconds.
more later. but don't let any of this discourage you. your quest has promise.
just beat this one. level 9 had a good design and gimmick, but the enemy choices made the gimmick tedious. too many red zol rooms, and the blue like likes aren't a threat at all. the patras were challenging, but they are a one time thing - clear the room and it stays cleared - they would have been better served guarding something and not just in a room that will be visiting several times (same goes for all the mini-bosses in the dungeon). the player can get stuck in the room before ganon without the boss key as the shutter closes behind you. which also made the ganon gauntlet easy with all the patras gone. the money (210!!!! rupees) or life room traps the player, which i didn't like, nor did i like the -100 door repair room in lvl8. as someone mentioned already there is no map in lvl8.
the difficulty of the later levels was good - its just unbalanced early game. however, i did start a new game and race through the first few levels with minimal deaths (5 deaths through to lvl3 where i had dozens more deaths on my first playthru, knowing what to do made a whole lot of difference). it is possible to get a magic shield, the blue ring, magic boomerang and white sword all before level 1 if you know what to do (breaking into 4 to grab blue candle specifically). even without the candle getting the white sword before 1 is possible though difficult, and getting it before 2 is more possible and less difficult. there are magic shields to be had without the candle too, but hard to get.
this quest did grow on me though. as stated the level design is good, they flow well. a few tweaks could make this a contender.
I just finished my playthrough of this one- I found a copy of the map elsewhere, and it was the "hard" version. My general comments, followed by per-category comments:
I found the overword to be challenging, but the only real problem was a few overly dangerous rooms right by the start. I normally search the whole overworld before going for dungeon 1, and found I had to use the "leave 1 creature alive" trick, always leaving a path to a fairy fountain so I could recover. As a side effect, I found many of the locations before entering any dungeons- though the NW section I had to pass on, as one hit from a lionel causes 4 hearts damage, and with only 3 hearts, it wasn't worth it. After finishing dungeon 2, I had 5 hearts, and since dungeon 3 was too tough I explored that area, and found all 5 heart containers before I got the white sword! finishing dungeon 3, and then quickly 4, I had the white sword for about 1.5 dungeons before getting the magic one.
The biggest problem I had with this was the "ramping" of the map. By this I mean the rate at which things got harder. Dungeons 4 and 5, and to a good extent 6 were trivial compared to the first 3. I disagree with others about the fire boomerang and Red Zol rooms. I think that you could safely remove one, but not both.
on to the categories:
Riddler: Although I found the locations that several of the clues went to before getting the clues, thanks to my methodical searches, they were done well. It would have been better if many of these weren't the same locations as in earlier quests, but there aren't many named locations (like Spectacle Rock) 4/5 here
Hardest: I take some liberties with this rating, because it was quite hard to start, but the reverse ramping detracted a bit. I think that if dungeons 4 and 5 came before 1 through 3 (with appropriate changes in items so they COULD be done in that order), it would have been much better. 3.5/5
Bosses: most of the bosses were just stronger versions of the originals- although the double-Ghoma boss was quite tough to beat, the other multi-bosses weren't so tough. If you include the mini-bosses, I think Travster went Patra-Crazy near the end. Several timesI entered a room, only to have multiple patra appear on top of me! fortunately the red ring comes before dungeon 9, so this was more annoying than tough, but still, after the third multi-patra room, the novelty is gone. Basically, ideas were overused. Maybe save the quad-patras for the gauntlet only, but leave a few doubles in the dungeon. Also, After all that work, Ganon was a let-down. Maybe double his health so 4 hits don't kill him. Gannon was one of the easiest enemies in the game! 3/5
enemies: similar to the bosses, the variants of most of the enemies was nice - at first- but they were over-used. For example, having more than one room with 11 green goriyas was overkill. A graveyard with 8 killable ghosts was also a bit much. On the subject of ghosts, a note: ghosts appearing in a dungeon room is cute, but they prevent shutter doors from activating, since they can't be killed, and aren't bubbles. 3.5/5
dungeons: the dungeons as a whole were pretty good in design (albeit with the ramping caveat), but there are 3 main problems I had: (1) there is no indication of obtaining the boss keys. In at least one dungeon, I happened to be standing right where it appeared, so I didn't know I had it! Please make a space on the subscreen for this. (2) there is no map in dungeon 8. Although I didn't need it, it does make it easier to know where to look for hidden paths, and to know that I didn't miss anything. (3) dungeon 9 overused the 1-way-passage-back-to-the-start gimmick. Unless I missed one, there were NINE (9!) such paths. This made exploring the dungeon very tedious, but even so that isn't the main problem. That honor goes to the gauntlet-trap. I got to the room before Ganon fairly early, and had to quit/continue because there was no way back. That last room before Gannon SHOULD have had a 1-way-passage-back-to-the-start.Unfortunately, I have to give a below-average mark in this category. 2/5
appearance: nothing special, nothing bad, just ordinary. A few of the dungeon layouts didn't have any apparent shape to them. 3/5
NES feel: This did pretty well with the feel, Most of the upgraded creatures in the dungeons were a natural progression up from the originals (although bomb-throwing wizrobes were a bit jarring). Still, I think the map did a good job with that. 4/5
overall: There were plenty of plusses and minuses to this, as I've pointed out, but I think the plusses do come out ahead here, so I give an overall 3.22 / 5 for this quest.