"Lockpick:"

Rakki and I were having yet another brainstorming session in #PureZC, (You guys really gotta stop by there more often. :p ) and I had this idea for a lockpick item.


Essentially, I don't think NeoFirst will be using a single Non-level-specific key. I just don't see a reason for it. :shrug: I mean, suppose you're in dungeon one, and you have all the items necessary to get to the boss key, and you also have a (Normal.) key. You decide to leave the dungeon with the key and explore the next dungeon, since you have the items necessary to reach that next dungeon, as per most of the zelda games. :p Obviously, this would suck.


I really don't see a reason to use ANY Non-level-specific keys in NeoFirst. Not one. Thus, I've decided that in an effort to make the quest somewhat easier, you'll be allowed to purchase "lockpicks" at about 650 rupees a pop from a secret shop somewhere in town.

Think the price is too high? Remember, a "normal" key will unlock any lock block or locked door. It won't vanish or anything. It'll also render any level-specific key that you COULD have used to open that door useless, so you don't have to worry about that either. Obviously, the idea of a "lockpick" is useful for those times when you just can't find a key.

Since everyone can go out and hunt for rupees, (I plan on having tons of bushes and tall grasses scattered through out NeoFirst, rest assured. ;) ) I figure this is a reasonable plan.

Thoughts? Comments? Questions? Flames? Lockpicks?

I believe this to be a great idea. I'm all for it. 650 might be a little low though. Eh. Doesn't matter. I like it! :)

Lol, I had the same thought, rocksfan. :p Maybe it could be 700? Or 750? Anyway, that raises the question of, will the large wallet be part of the Init. Data? I really see no reason not to include it, as I don't think anyone mentioned placing wallets anywhere already anyway. :p

Okay. Concerning the price of the lockpick, I suppose "650" is indeed a little bit low. ;-p ... Particularly considering the sheer usefulness of such a thing.

Okay. First of all, you'll only be able to access this thing if you have Nayru's love, and can find your way across a field of lava. How about that? (You step in, get bumped back, then while invincible, walk your way onto it, face the other way, and watch as you're "bumped" all the way to the stairs to the thieves hideout since damage bumps you backward, and you're facing away from it, so...)

Yeah, so I guess this thief will be pretty hard to get to. =/

Heck, maybe we can make some underground lair for him under one of the houses in the town you start in, but make it empty, with a note somewhere that says that he's hiding out beyond the fiery mountains.

EDIT: Oh yeah! Wallets! .. Oy, forgot about that.


... ... Yeah, I really did. I have no idea what we're going to do about that. XD I guess we could just buy them like anything else. :shrug: We shouldn't make them TOO expensive. I mean, I'm thinking that we should make the smaller wallet 50 rupees, and the larger 125? The reason they're so cheap, is that they also sell a magic shield for 150 rupees. Obviously, you'll want that very badly. (Trust me. You will. :sweat: ) Of course, there will be other shops who will sell the magic shield for like, twenty rupees elsewhere, so...

Why don't you just have thieves scattered about and upon defeat of a certain 2 you can receive the wallet upgrade. Make the player fight for the prize.:shrug:

And the master thief give access to the area where the lockpick is located.

Putting the wallet as an INIT would be too much of a NOOB mistake. I think it should be made that if the player wants it bad enough, certainly having the lockpick should be good enough anyway, they will go looking for it.

... Eh, sounds good to me, I guess. :p I have a nice desertish/plainsish area to the east of the entrance to the first dungeon, so that'll work out for at least one of the thieves. The other thief could have a cave entrance in the mountains close to the starting town or possibly the beach to its south.

So, besides giving you the small wallet, the first thief would tell you where to find the other thief. The thief that's in the plains/desert, (The second thief.) Would give you the larger wallet as well as telling you where to find the master thief. It'd also be a good time for him to reveal to us WHY that house in the town is empty and dark. That would be because the master thief has magical lockpicks. :p Sounds good? ^___^

I like it. It's pretty good. Could work very well. But is there only 2 thieves and the master thief? Why not have more so the player has some exploring to do. One could tell you that there are other places and another could say it was a waste of time.

Well we don't have forever to build this quest, you know. :blah: Two is more than enough, I'd think. With only three dungeons and one overworld to explore, as well as a new "tutorial" portion of the quest, we have more than enough on our plate as it is even without adding new additions.

Besides, what else could more thieves possibly do? :p We've got two wallets, information, and an infinite source of keys. XD

Yeah that's true. We should stick with 2 then. If there were more than 1 overworld it would probably be different. I like it. Good stuff! :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by rocksfan13

Why don't you just have thieves scattered about and upon defeat of a certain 2 you can receive the wallet upgrade. Make the player fight for the prize.:shrug:

And the master thief give access to the area where the lockpick is located.

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Sounds good so far...

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Originally Posted by rocksfan13

Putting the wallet as an INIT would be too much of a NOOB mistake.

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That wasn't a shot at my quest making ideas, was it? =/ The only reason I suggested that for this quest is because it's so short, and we don't have a WHOLE lot of time to finish it. I may only be about a year old on the forums here, but I've dealt with ZC for many years already. I believe I'm from the same time as Exate, in fact. Version 1.84.

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Originally Posted by Rakki

That wasn't a shot at my quest making ideas, was it? =/ The only reason I suggested that for this quest is because it's so short, and we don't have a WHOLE lot of time to finish it. I may only be about a year old on the forums here, but I've dealt with ZC for many years already. I believe I'm from the same time as Exate, in fact. Version 1.84.

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No. I have no doubt about your ideas or abilities. I know what you meant. I was just merely stating that most new people tend to do that and having that here would make it seem that way.

It would be a good idea though.

lol, honestly, now that we mention it, I want the player to start off with the 500 rupee wallet. The prize for finding the first thief could be the larger wallet, and the prize for finding the second thief could be the very information regarding the Master Thief. (He'd tell you to look under the empty house in the town. The empty house would have a hidden staircase VERY well hidden somewhere in one of the rooms, (All the houses will have multiple rooms. All of 'em, just for consistency's sake, and to make sure the casual author knows that rooms don't need to be one room alone.) So under that house would be a note describing the thief's location in the lava area.

Unless you guys really still think that each thief should give out a wallet. I'm okay with that, I guess. I just *really* hate it when I'm at 255 rupees, and find a 200 piece rupee. X x. That could easily become the case in NeoFirst, considering how I plan to give 'em out like candy now and then.

I see no problem with that. If that is what you plan on doing.:thumbsup:

If you're going to sell at least one of the Wallets, why not set the prices for them at the max amount of Rupees you should have? In other words, put the 1st Wallet as 255 Rupees and the Second as 500 (or however many the Big Wallet lets you hold max). That's what I always do.

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Originally Posted by pikaguy900

If you're going to sell at least one of the Wallets, why not set the prices for them at the max amount of Rupees you should have? In other words, put the 1st Wallet as 255 Rupees and the Second as 500 (or however many the Big Wallet lets you hold max). That's what I always do.

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... why?

Why should the player be forced to do that? Doesn't he/she have enough on their mind?

I mean, the magic shield will cost 125 rupees or so in the shop. Either you can buy the shield, or you can buy the wallet. Your choice. If you have the cash for one, you'll probably have the cash for the other. That's the sort of effect I was trying to go for there. However, since I decided that we'll be giving the small wallet to the player from the start, (Perhaps as a pickup in their house.) I see no reason to hog a store shelf with it.

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Originally Posted by Britannianhero4

... why?

Why should the player be forced to do that? Doesn't he/she have enough on their mind?

I mean, the magic shield will cost 125 rupees or so in the shop. Either you can buy the shield, or you can buy the wallet. Your choice. If you have the cash for one, you'll probably have the cash for the other. That's the sort of effect I was trying to go for there. However, since I decided that we'll be giving the small wallet to the player from the start, (Perhaps as a pickup in their house.) I see no reason to hog a store shelf with it.

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Good point. It just seemed right to me to have to pay the max amount of Rupees to buy a wallet, since they can be valuable if a lot of the items in shops get more expensive as you get farther in game. Which just gave me an idea...

I just got an idea!
How about, to get the wallet, you have to beat the 3 thieves, and after you beat them, you warp to an identical screen with a string of a part of the password needed to access the part of the dungeon with the wallet upgrade, and other things. So, you have to beat all 3 to get the password.
Example:
1st: Open
2nd: Sesa
3rd: me
Password = Open Sesame.
To make the screen with the password, make tiles with the choices for the first part of the password, 1 correct, 3 incorrect. Choice 1 tile= Tilewarp "A" 2="B" etc. Make identical screens, but make the correct first choice go to a second room with
The same setup, but the tiles are the graphic of the second section. The incorrect choice goes to an identical screen, but the tilewarps all go to the next incorrect screen, and this repeats, but after the third screen, a tile pops up with the word, in red, "INCORRECT". The side warp from the side you entered the screen from should take you back to the screen before all this, for the player to try again.
Anyways, the second correct screen has 4 warps, and 1 of them will take you to the third correct screen. Get my point?

Yeah, there's my 200cents.

it makes sense johnamus... just confusing as hell and a large pain to do...

It's a great idea, but not really for NeoFirst. I mean, unless you're willing to implement this in yourself within the timespan of a week, I just can't see this happening to NeoFirst. It's a little bit too complex for people, and would raise the standards considerably.

I guess we could design it so that you can't actually reach the Master Thieve's room within his hideout until you've spoken to both thieves at that point. :shrug: That's simple enough. Could be done by using that old "Identical room + event" trick, usable with room state carryovers. Very simple to do.

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Originally Posted by Sir_Johnamus

I just got an idea!
How about, to get the wallet, you have to beat the 3 thieves, and after you beat them, you warp to an identical screen with a string of a part of the password needed to access the part of the dungeon with the wallet upgrade, and other things. So, you have to beat all 3 to get the password.
Example:
1st: Open
2nd: Sesa
3rd: me
Password = Open Sesame.
To make the screen with the password, make tiles with the choices for the first part of the password, 1 correct, 3 incorrect. Choice 1 tile= Tilewarp "A" 2="B" etc. Make identical screens, but make the correct first choice go to a second room with
The same setup, but the tiles are the graphic of the second section. The incorrect choice goes to an identical screen, but the tilewarps all go to the next incorrect screen, and this repeats, but after the third screen, a tile pops up with the word, in red, "INCORRECT". The side warp from the side you entered the screen from should take you back to the screen before all this, for the player to try again.
Anyways, the second correct screen has 4 warps, and 1 of them will take you to the third correct screen. Get my point?

Yeah, there's my 200cents.

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I like this idea!:thumbsup: But for NeoFirst, it would be a little much.

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Originally Posted by ShadowTiger

I guess we could design it so that you can't actually reach the Master Thieve's room within his hideout until you've spoken to both thieves at that point. That's simple enough. Could be done by using that old "Identical room + event" trick, usable with room state carryovers. Very simple to do.

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I must agree with ShadowTiger. Having to talk to both thieves first would definately add to the story and difficulty.

Indeed. In addition to speaking to the two thieves, we should probably make it so that finding the first thief is rather easy. (I think he should be surprisingly close to the town, and his hideout shouldn't be that hard to spot either. o.o' ) The second thief, however, I think we'll need the Red Candle to find, since he's hiding under some brush.

Concerning the need for the lockpicks, well, considering that you get both the hookshot AND the Red Candle in the first dungeon, chances are that you won't be -too- lost (In terms of key discovery and usage.) by then, so you just may be able to discover all these thieves by the time you really start to get confused, if you do, in fact, get confused.

The first thief will give some nice clues as to where the second thief is hiding of course. Really should. It'd be screen 2,1 or 3,1 or something like that. The first thief would be "hiding" out in the trees somewhere just northwest of the town's forest borders, around screen 4,4. Sounds about right, I guess. 4,3 maybe. The Master Thief will be around screen F,7 or E,7, if that helps you visualize it.

I will post a quest on purezc on how to do this. Plus a few other things.