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Coming soon: updated terms of service
it's been over 3 yrs since they were updated. expect a new set to be posted in 24-48 hours.
also, glenn and lilith's bans will be lifted tomorrow evening, seeing as how while the rules were indeed broken multiple times, if the staff goes back and reviews ALL postings by all members in the last 2-3 weeks, we'd have an insane number of disciplinary actions taken. there is to be an amnesty of sorts due to the fact the the rules have been lax for some time. however, once the new TOS is posted, all members are expected to follow them and disciplinary actions will be applied consistently.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I'm so glad that our justice system doesn't work like this.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
so let's all be damned... ;)
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
phattonez... ultimately I think the decision to unban glenn and lilith is a good thing especially since the TOS is being revamped and updated.
Everyone is being given a clean slate to start fresh - with a new updated TOS.
I promise it's a good thing hon.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I know that it's different here, and I'm fine with it because no harm will come from it. However, if this were the real world, it would be a terrible decision. I guess it's a good thing that this is just "The Internets."
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
But if you destroy the world, what will there be left to rule?
Behavior has been "atrocious" over the past few weeks because all that remains is a tight-knit group of members that, for the most part, has been here for nearly a decade. We know each other well enough to be able to take a little ribbing.
If we decide that, to keep our bustling forum of a dozen active members under control, we must strengthen the rules, I suppose I shall be among the first to take a ban for having fun on an internet forum.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
But you see, most of the stuff that we do now, even if they decide that it's not allowed in GD, it would work in GB. We all like to flame every now and then, and it's fun. When we lost GB we lost a lot more that just another forum.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prrkitty
Everyone is being given a clean slate to start fresh - with a new updated TOS.
actually, this is limited amnesty, applying solely to lilith and glenn because they were the two affected by the increased staff activity and application of the TOS.
to be fair, we'd either have to ban EVERYONE who violated or just unban two and make it known that the period of leniency is over. it's easier to unban two than to review every active member's posts.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Ha! I came back just in time for more rules ....hmmm
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I for one look forward to seeing what AGN considers a warnable offense. I didn't really think that the previous rules were sub-par, but were perhaps just incomplete. PureZC's user guidelines, while complete, aren't harsh or really restrictive at all. AGN's were really even less restrictive, but seemed to have lacked certain provisions for several unlikely events which may have occurred. "Winging it" would have then been necessary, and since there wouldn't have had been anything written about it, users may have gotten the chance to complain about it, not just appeal it.
Ultimately, I think that keeping everyone happy is what a good set of rules should do. Seeing as you can't keep everyone happy, an attempt should be made at keeping at least the vast majority happy, while still setting a few provisions for those who don't fall under that umbrella. I suppose it's possible. Just have to get creative with it. :p
Well, all in all, I do look forward to seeing these new guidelines and rules. Maybe if I'm bored, I'll run 'em though my own little creativity outlet and spiffy 'em up with BB tags and all; make them look nice and shiny. :-3 Heh.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ShadowTiger
I for one look forward to seeing what AGN considers a warnable offense. I didn't really think that the previous rules were sub-par, but were perhaps just incomplete. [url=http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10466]
Ultimately, I think that keeping everyone happy is what a good set of rules should do.
Note that in three threads about the "improved" ruleset the most active members of the forum are complaining that they believe the "inferior" ruleset fit the forums better.
*edit* Also if after this extremely public attempt to make your nose the darkest shade of #804000 you can get if they make you a mod or something I swear I'm going to troll you so relentlessly I will set a record for "number of posts made between first report and ban"
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
You don't have to tell me that I'm a sheep in so many words. I already know it.
It's actually tapping against my sense of curiosity than anything else, though it'd be nice to get a better sense of order around here. Whatever happens, I'm probably not going to stop posting. It takes a lot to destroy a community. To do that, you have to get rid of at least seventy five percent of the member base. Seeing as most of the people that consists of are either incredibly resistant to being warned for flaming or trolling, or never flame or troll anyway, it wouldn't be a problem to restructure the rules, seeing as, apparently, (As this thread exists.) AGN has need of a restructuring.
I don't really know what a "laid back" forum setup is. As far as I'm concerned, it's always been one. The only time it hasn't been laid back is when most of the people fear a ban for voicing their opinions without even trolling. If an opinion isn't trolling in some degree, (Like pointing out a MAJOR Flaw that the staff have blatantly ignored, or calling someone out in the process) there's really no reason to get concerned about it. Maybe I'm just one of those people who takes things as they are and will make do with whatever it is, but that's how I see it. Let whatever happen, happen. It'll still live on.
(EDIT: Far, far later on...)
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if they make you a mod or something I swear I'm going to troll you so relentlessly I will set a record for "number of posts made between first report and ban"
I know that people think that I'm brown-nosing. It's been made very clear to me on numerous occasions. I would almost stoop so low as to say that "I pity you" for thinking that it's absolutely impossible for people like me to exist, but unfortunately, (But not so!) we do. We want what's best for everyone pretty much all the time, while not trying to step on anyones' heels to want it or to get it. There's been a lot of crap slung around here, and I just think that there should be at least ONE person (Well, two, if you look a few inches below this post. :ooh: ) to try to hold it all back and keep things bright.
If you or anyone else here thinks that I'm brown-nosing to get myself some sort of staff position, then I would HAPPILY continue to say such things even without any offers for such a thing.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
Note that in three threads about the "improved" ruleset the most active members of the forum are complaining that they believe the "inferior" ruleset fit the forums better.
*edit* Also if after this extremely public attempt to make your nose the darkest shade of #804000 you can get if they make you a mod or something I swear I'm going to troll you so relentlessly I will set a record for "number of posts made between first report and ban"
Atma, in my humble opinion, your comment in that last paragraph was VERY uncalled for. There is absolutely NO reason to announce that you will troll someone for something. It degrades you, makes you look very childish and also looks bad for the forum as a whole.
IF you feel the need to make that kind of statement then take it to PM. It should NEVER be made in a public area.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
What good are rules when they only open up more loopholes for the old fossils around here, that have no lives and have been around here forever, to use against noobs that come here and after being put down and ridiculed with carefully chosen "rule acceptable" words blow up and end up getting banned?
You only need 1 rule;
Internet bully fossils accepted, all others take a hike.
After all.... that's hows it always been the last several years I've been coming here, why change now?
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
So we shouldn't change things because it's always been that way? That doesn't make any sense at all.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Since you are one of the ones that likes to treat noobs like shit I thought you would be pleased.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
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What good are rules when they only open up more loopholes for the old fossils around here
If things change for how you're predicting they will, then this statement will become the focus of many people here. Otherwise, I hope it's the thing that will be most resolved by these changes. I don't enjoy seeing several of the staff altogether avoiding the use of tact. It's completely counterintuitive.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I don't treat newbs bad, I don't even call them n00bs like you do apparently. It's just the ones that don't know how to talk and are retarded. I'm all up for new TOS, rules need to change with the times.
I don't know what your beef is with me but if you really want to discuss it them PM me.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
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Originally Posted by
phattonez
I don't treat newbs bad, I don't even call them n00bs like you do apparently. It's just the ones that don't know how to talk and are retarded. I'm all up for new TOS, rules need to change with the times.
I don't know what your beef is with me but if you really want to discuss it them PM me.
Why don't you show them that same consideration?
Instead you hound them about their spelling to embarrass them in front of the whole world.
In addition, "retarded" people can't hardly help being the way they are now can they, but YOU on the other hand choose to act the way you do towards them.
You don't think you treat people bad?
What was that old saying....
You are judged NOT by how much you love others, but by how much you are loved by others.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Well I don't know how many people here exactly hate me. I always give people respect with their first post, but if they are still stupid after that then why should I still respect them if they don't respect me?
If you think that what I do is something worth a ban then PM a mod and ask them to ban me. Please, go ahead.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Freedom knock it off. If you wanna fight then do it in pm not OA. Phattonez the same goes for you.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
If you can't respect them, then why can't you just leave them the hell alone?
People can often use your help, but they never need your ridicule, it only serves to make their difficult times even more difficult.
By your own posts it's obvious you think yourself better than them, they're retarded and stupid, so be better, help them.
EDIT,
Biggiy, just saw you post.
It's not that I want to fight, but what good are new rules when they still won't address the problem that this board has had all along?
But yep, I'll knock it off to please you. ;)
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
This is actually pretty interesting. We're all familiar with these "n00bs" who come in, make a lot of really weird posts, get banned for what most here would consider spam, then have them come in to provide a crude, yet effective explanation for their behavior. I've seen some of these people become very bright and productive members of the community, actually. Remember ZC Architech? I am honored to call him my friend. It only takes time, really. I wonder what provisions will be made to provide for ... well, .. ... I guess I would call it "Prehabilitation?" It'd be similar to abortion in nature: You would be getting rid of something that's currently unwanted, but that could become a future Einstein or Bach or Gates or Hitler.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Freedom
But yep, I'll knock it off to please you. ;)
What's this? Don't punk out now. You haven't even proved your obviously correct point yet. Please continue to insist that you are correct.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Freedom... *I* am and have been trying VERY hard to NOT be a bully and to help change, to a large degree, the "bullying" that you are so eagerly complaining about... around here.
If you would like to discuss this further please PM me and we can discuss this more in depth. Please and thank you.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I wasn't referring to you Prrkitty. ;)
I promise.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
So I have a question about the new TOS. Will we be able to say anything that might change them once they are posted or will they be set in stone?
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
the new TOS will be compiled with the input of all of the available staff, most likely sometime sunday afternoon. that should give enough diverse viewpoints to arrive at a fair set of rules that aren't overly restrictive.
they're essentially going to be the old set (it's looking like) with some of the old rules dropped completely.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I apologize for nothing, as I feel my statements were called for.
You don't make 4,000 posts over 7 years on a forum without getting a certain degree of attached to it. In the early days, AGN was pretty lax and I remember posting patterns comparable to what the past weeks have been. This was OK because when there's less than a dozen or so active members on a forum people tend to know each other better so the threshold of flaming is much higher. Additionally, it's nice to have some activity even if it is pointless threads and flamewars because the alternative is what I saw quite often over the last year: 2 new posts in a day on a fast day.
So I'm just starting to integrate AGN into my "browse the web" pattern again and having a good time of it when, out of nowhere, CK bans two of the four members that I personally believe are responsible for the surge of new activity. There was quite a bit of disagreement over this and the memberbase was split on the decision. Then we're notified that we're obviously out of control and a new TOS is going to be posted to maintain order and it's just like "what?"
I let all that slide pretty much though and was chill, but then Mr. Sunshine comes in all "Hey guys at PureZC it is SO cool and you just don't understand AGN is like the wild wild west and you guys need more rules. I mean the rules are here to make people happy and the majority of you seem to believe you are happy with the current rules I support the staff in their decision to completely ignore the sentiment of the users!". So yeah I draw the line of forced politeness there.
Incidentally, I do acknowledge that the AGN staff is under no obligation to respect the requests of the users. The staff's job is to run the site and for the most part users don't pay the bills so hey whatever. I do wish to point out that dissatisfied users (also banned users) don't tend to continue to visit the site, so while no obligation exists there is a convincing argument for the importance of user sentiment.
I seriously urge you to consider the number of active users on the forums and consider whether a stricter rule set that results in more banned users is a wise choice. Iron fist moderation has a place on forums with so many users that standards of behavior must be kept; it is my belief that AGN is just not large enough to warrant such tight control.
Also I couldn't figure out why I couldn't see any of Freedom's posts but then I remembered I put him on my ignore list long ago. I thought I was supposed to get some text that let me click to see what he said though?
Anyway I can't remember why I initially put him on there but it seems like it was an excellent idea!
Good thing I checked I thought his stuff had been deleted and I had a particularly venomous statement to make about that behavior.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
So then it will be less restrictive? Hmm, I think a lot of the people should be happy about this. But I want to see what we're going to get before I put my opinion on it.
EDIT: I know that it won't say it, but there will always be a difference between making fun of a newb and doing the same to a mod.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
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Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
consider whether a stricter rule set that results in more banned users is a wise choice.
the new rules are going to be LESS strict. see the post above yours.
and i believe the statement was just that the rules were going to be ENFORCED. not necessarily that everyone was out of control.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I'm assuming that staff does not include me, for while I am a Shattered Earth Moderator, that is less of a rule-enforcing job and more of a "convenience in editting threads" job. If not, then if I may make a tiny request regarding one of the rules. Instead of a straight up "no advertisements" rule, I think it would be better to have "no signing up for the sake of advertisements" rule. It's pretty obvious when people just sign up to advertise, and those people don't care about the rules anyway. But I know that if I got something of mine put on iTunes and I told everyone here about it, it would be against the rules, which I think is kind of messed up. I'm obviously not here to advertise, but I dont' see anything wrong with members displaying their talents, regardless of whether it makes money or not.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
that seems to be the general thought, dechipher, and you ARE staff. your input in the TOS thread in FS would be most appreciated. soon plz, as the new list is going up this afternoon/evening. danke :)
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
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Originally Posted by
cyberkitten
the new rules are going to be LESS strict. see the post above yours.
and i believe the statement was just that the rules were going to be ENFORCED. not necessarily that everyone was out of control.
Oh OK I apologize in advance conditionally pending whether there is an "AtmaWeapon is banned" rule
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Quote:
Quote:
I'm assuming that staff does not include me, for while I am a Shattered Earth Moderator, that is less of a rule-enforcing job and more of a "convenience in editting threads" job. If not, then if I may make a tiny request regarding one of the rules. Instead of a straight up "no advertisements" rule, I think it would be better to have "no signing up for the sake of advertisements" rule. It's pretty obvious when people just sign up to advertise, and those people don't care about the rules anyway. But I know that if I got something of mine put on iTunes and I told everyone here about it, it would be against the rules, which I think is kind of messed up. I'm obviously not here to advertise, but I dont' see anything wrong with members displaying their talents, regardless of whether it makes money or not.
that seems to be the general thought, dechipher, and you ARE staff. your input in the TOS thread in FS would be most appreciated. soon plz, as the new list is going up this afternoon/evening. danke
Could'nt you get an admin to make an advertisemaent forum? Maybe where you haft to have 100 posts to post in?
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Why would you want an advertisement forum? That's what sigs are for and we already have enough ads on the site.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
Sorry if that was condisered Rent A Moding. I just checked my PM's.
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Why would you want an advertisement forum? That's what sigs are for and we already have enough ads on the site.
I really don't want them to change the Ad rule at all. Oh well.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
spyk... just let the staff handle things hon :) Please and thank you :)
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
If you have only one post, and that post is an advertisement, it's pretty clear you're spamming and should be permabanned, especially since a lot of these ads come from bots.
But advertisement by established members is a gray area, which has been evaluated on a case-by-case basis in the past.
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Re: Coming soon: updated terms of service
I really think there's a difference between "advertising" and "showing your work".
Advertising is a commercial endeavor. When Decipher or I post music, it's just like showing our friends what we spend our time on. It's no different than if I drew a cool picture and posted it. It's just friends showing their friends the results of their hard work.
I'm sure staff would let us know if they thought we were crossing the line into commercialism.