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Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
TL;DR version:
Somali pirates took over as a U.S. cargo ship carrying relief food for people in Kenya. 20 members of the crew overpowered the pirates and took the ship back. The captain of the ship voluntarily left with the pirates to keep his crew safe.
Now the pirates are in the ocean on a speedboat with the captain. The U.S. navy has a warship nearby and more ships coming to the aid. How stupid can you be? You're sitting in a speedboat and you have a dozen or so ships from one of the most powerful naval forces in the world coming after you. Sheer brilliance.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090409/ap_on_re_af/piracy
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Lol. I wonder how long it'll be before they make a movie out of modern pirates. Actually, I saw this on the new last night. I thought the pirates took over the navel ship, and seized that captain though. At least that is how the news made it sound.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Don't worry, Obama has a plan to shrink the navy and cut military spending more than its ever been cut. We'll be fine.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Beldaran
Don't worry, Obama has a plan to shrink the navy and cut military spending more than its ever been cut. We'll be fine.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the proposed 2010 defense budget actually higher than 2009's? I really don't see how an extra $20 billion is cutting military spending here.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
That's why we need to legalize laser warfare. High Intensity beams rock.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the proposed 2010 defense budget actually higher than 2009's? I really don't see how an extra $20 billion is cutting military spending here.
He is increasing spending in areas related to counter-insurgency such as unmanned aerial vehicles and such, but cancelling some huge programs like F22 Raptor (leading to big job losses in multiple states), the F35, huge cuts in missile defense (perfect timing with NKorea launching a missile), decomissioning some battleships, and halting new helicopters, next-generation armored vehicles for the Army and high-tech Navy vessels.
Also, when the government prints $1 trillion dollars defacto and pumps it into the economy willy nilly, a $20 billion increase in spending ends up being a spending CUT, because of the value of money.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
God damn the obama administration. Those fuckers are gonna get us all nuked. The russians and north korea are so going to take advantage of us.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
So it would seem to me that he is rearranging the budget to meet current military needs. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
How is weakening or defense a good thing? The best offense is a good defense.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Anthus
Lol. I wonder how long it'll be before they make a movie out of modern pirates. Actually, I saw this on the new last night. I thought the pirates took over the navel ship, and seized that captain though. At least that is how the news made it sound.
They took over the ship then hours later the crew overpowered the pirates. In the mix of all this, the captain voluntarily left with the pirates in exchange for his crews safety. Ballsy move but I can respect him for thinking of his crew first.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Archangel
How is weakening or defense a good thing? The best offense is a good defense.
Actually it's the other way around, the best defense is a good offense. But seriously, shouldn't we concentrate our spending on things we actually need right now?
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Actually it's the other way around, the best defense is a good offense. But seriously, shouldn't we concentrate our spending on things we actually need right now?
Did you forget what country we live in? Since when did we spend money on things we NEED?
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rock_nog
So it would seem to me that he is rearranging the budget to meet current military needs. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
How is missile defense and a strong navy not a need given rampant piracy, threats from Russia, and North Korean and Iranian dictatorships jockeying for the bomb?
Liberals are just fundamentally anti-american at heart and they want to peel away our defenses, applaud Castro, and slowly socialize our economy. I say build a huge, towering, horrifyingly powerful military, and tell evil countries to suck our big red white and blue dick.
Seriously, if I were the President, I would just carpet nuke the fuck out of North Korea right now. Fuck that shit hole of a country and its evil dictatorship. They are evil. Their population is already the walking dead because of the tyrants who rule them. Just solve the whole problem at once.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
We have real wars that we are fighting right now. Those should get higher priority over hypotheticals. I'm not saying drop our guard entirely, but we do need to reprioritize to meet the military needs that we have right now. If things are going to come to fighting in any of the countries you mentioned, that would be years down the line. Certainly neither North Korea nor Iran currently has the capability to pose a serious threat to us at the moment.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
You know rock_nog, I don't think you should take what Beldaran is saying seriously. I'm sure he's being sarcastic.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Wow. I thought this shit didn't happen anymore.
Anyways, if there is a battleship floating near them, and they hav eno juice left in the motor, basically the only bargain they can hope to make is "we'll hand over the hostage! Just don't kill us!". I mean, they're totally boned.
Not a smart move on their part.
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Originally Posted by
biggiy05
Ballsy move but I can respect him for thinking of his crew first.
Agreed. I salute him for that too.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Certainly neither North Korea nor Iran currently has the capability to pose a serious threat to us at the moment.
I would rather walk down the streets of Baghdad naked, with an American flag in my hand, than set foot in either North Korea or Iran with an entire unit. Those fuckers are all crazy, and sooner or later, they're going to do something that will require us to retaliate. And if we don't retaliate, we'll get looked at unfavorably by the rest of the world for not doing anything...not that we would be looked at favorably for doing it either.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Anthony
I would rather walk down the streets of Baghdad naked, with an American flag in my hand, than set foot in either North Korea or Iran with an entire unit. Those fuckers are all crazy, and sooner or later, they're going to do something that will require us to retaliate. And if we don't retaliate, we'll get looked at unfavorably by the rest of the world for not doing anything...not that we would be looked at favorably for doing it either.
I'm not opposed to retaliation here, it's just, there needs to be something to retaliate against. From what I can tell, it seems that mainly they're just stirring up anti-American sentiment to distract from their own incompetence. Actually going to war and having us turn their countries into parking lots would kind of defeat the purpose.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Anthony
I would rather walk down the streets of Baghdad naked, with an American flag in my hand, than set foot in either North Korea or Iran with an entire unit. Those fuckers are all crazy, and sooner or later, they're going to do something that will require us to retaliate. And if we don't retaliate, we'll get looked at unfavorably by the rest of the world for not doing anything...not that we would be looked at favorably for doing it either.
I agree with Anthony... naked and the whole bit.
I bet it's North Korea that does something first. Their leaders don't care about their own people... much less anyone else.
And when they finally do... do something... I'm afraid it's going to be bigger then anyone ever thought of or even tried to anticipate. There's many rumors that they have WMD's and even nukes (amongst other massive damage causing weapons). And they ain't afraid to use 'em... EVEN if their own people are caught in the cross-fire.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Honestly, I don't care if Iran gets erm...
"Taken care of". The shit that goes on in there... When the penalty for BEING raped is death (or lashes, IF you're lucky), then I think we have a problem.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Iran has been a thorn in our side for decades now, and they still haven't done anything. Now, I am not saying they wont, but I am saying that I think we're past the point where we should jump every time they say "boo!"
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Seriously, if I were the President, I would just carpet nuke the fuck out of North Korea right now. Fuck that shit hole of a country and its evil dictatorship. They are evil. Their population is already the walking dead because of the tyrants who rule them. Just solve the whole problem at once.
No seriously, I totally agree. I think we need to wipe out that whole fucking middle east area too. All in all, these places are gonna fuck us up, with there imaginary friends and big bombs.
Call it naive, and say I have a lack of understanding, but fuck it, it is how I feel. Wipe. Them. Out.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
You know, Iran has some good people, I think, but their government is totally FUBAR. I still hold out hope that one day, the youth movement will rise up and put those assholes in their place. God I hate political conflicts. Do you really think your average Joe Blow Persian on the street really cares all that much about the Iran/US conflict? No, they just wanna live their lives, but government assholes go around brainwashing them to believe that America is the root of all their problems. Ever since the revolution, they've been blaming us for every single goddamn problem in their country, so of course they hate us. I will admit, it doesn't help that we openly supported the Shah, and we supported Iraq in the Iraq-Iran War, but dammit, they might as well blame allergies and ED on us.
North Korea is even more astounding - not only is religion not the factor that it is in Iran, but Kim Jong Il's complete incompetence and I'd argue utter insanity has resulted in untold suffering in his own people. How the hell does he do it? Jesus, he's gotta be running the anti-US propaganda machine 24/7 to keep the people from rising up and hanging his ass with piano wire.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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the best defense is a good offense.
Isn't that because everything worth defending is a part of the offensive?
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
franpa
Isn't that because everything worth defending is a part of the offensive?
Consider the first Death Star. It would've been impossible for the Rebels to devise some kind of shield to repel the Death Star's primary attack, but by attacking first, they were able to destroy the Death Star and thus neatly avoid the whole problem.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
The_Amaster
Iran has been a thorn in our side for decades now, and they still haven't done anything. Now, I am not saying they wont, but I am saying that I think we're past the point where we should jump every time they say "boo!"
The problem is that the threat is becoming more serious. The day we don't jump when they say "boo" is the day we have a nuke pointing at us. We are the "top dog" when it comes to waging war. Everyone looks at us to come bail them out or make the first move when someone gets bullied.
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Consider the first Death Star. It would've been impossible for the Rebels to devise some kind of shield to repel the Death Star's primary attack, but by attacking first, they were able to destroy the Death Star and thus neatly avoid the whole problem.
Nice analogy.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Be afraid, linguine-spined libs, be very afraid... if the US doesn't strike Iran, Israel has made it no secret that they will. Because unlike a majority of us Americans (proof is in our President) Israel puts their self-preservation above all else.
I only agree with Bill O'Reilly about 85% of the time, but he was 100% right last night... how in the hell can this massive ship get overtaken by FOUR pirates in dinghies? By sailing totally unarmed and without any form of security detail, that's how. As the Angry Video Game Nerd might say, what were they thinking?
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
biggiy05
Nice analogy.
Actually, bad analogy. It seems nice because it agrees with your point. But the problem is you, like many people, are looking at the problem from the eyes of someone who either isn't aware of or willfully ignores the complexity of the situation.
In Star Wars, there was good and there was evil: the Rebel Alliance and the Empire. Everyone else was a bystander not interested in the fight. If the Empire had succeeded in destroying the Yavin base, we were led to believe that there was no one else that would threaten the Empire. The rebels were a small, underpowered group against a larger force with infinite money, infinite manpower, superior weaponry, and superior tactics due to magical future-seeing Sith. Darth Vader is the only counterpoint to the statement that there was no one in the Star Wars universe that acted on some motivation other than "Is this good?" or "Is this evil?" and would choose an action counter to their alignment. The novels don't count, they were intended to explore these issues and even the novels for the films don't go into the depth that the others do.
In the real world, good is on positive infinity and evil is on negative infinity, and every entity in the world is somewhere on the line between the two. An entity doesn't even have a concrete place on the line, as to one person a great man could be evil incarnate (consider how we felt about Great Britain during the American Revolution vs. how the average British citizen felt about them; who was right?) If Iran is the Galactic Empire and blows up Yavin 4 (America) with their Death Star (nukes), there are a large number of other, larger entities (Russia, China, all of Europe) that would suddenly feel threatened; it's not like Iran plays nice with many people.
It's not even like we're the idealist and underpowered rebellion against the powerful Empire of Iran; they've got one Death Star, a Corellian Cruiser, and a squadron of X-Wings. We've got 100 Death Stars, two fleets of Super Star Destroyers, and hundreds of squadrons of TIE fighters, TIE defenders, and TIE bombers. On top of that, in a nukes:Death Star destructive power comparison we have the equivalent of four planets worth of land while they occupy a satellite base orbiting a barren moon; the entirety of their arsenal would only damage a percentage of our resources before they die off from attrition. If you asked the average citizen of the world how accurate this analogy is, they'd tell you that you have it backwards: the US is the Galactic Empire with limitless power, forcing its will upon the masses while Iran is the Rebel Alliance, a ragtag group of perky kids that are out to prevent the Empire from oppressing one more person.
On top of that, you have the rest of the world, which is like a Galactic Council that didn't exist in Star Wars. Russia's got 50 death stars and a few fleets of fighters. The U.K. can field a dozen death stars and a handful of capital ships. Spain's got death stars. China's got millions of clone troopers, several planets of their own, (possibly) death stars, capital ships and cruisers. India's similar to China. North Korea's got a death star. All of these people have interests and worries of their own; if either Iran or the US starts slinging nukes at each other, all of these countries are going to feel threatened and respond in unpredictable, possibly irrational ways.
Think about it, seriously. If Iran shoots first, the rest of the world feels like they're an unstable threat and there'd probably be a group of countries that would obliterate them in self-defense. If we shoot first, to the world we're the evil Empire who is saying, "You do not have a culture or lifestyle compatible with our goals, we have decided to destroy you and your culture and take your land for ours." This would destabilize the political climate even more and probably lead to someone like Russia or China declaring open hostility on us; after all, how do they know they aren't next? Why do you think Iran wants us to shoot first so bad? They want us to be destroyed, and don't care if they have to die in the process.
The Empire made the attack on Yavin not because they liked blowing up planets but because the Rebel Alliance was a threat and victory would have silenced rebellion for an entire era. The Rebels were a thorn in the Empire's side and the Empire was tired of jumping every time an X-Wing said "boo!" The Rebel Alliance fought back because they had no way to move in time to avoid destruction; they were backed into a corner and it was a suicide battle because they had no choice. Looking at it from this direction, do you think it would be wise for America, with near-infinite resources, to attack Iran, a small country with no allies and nowhere to run?
There's not a good answer to the question, "What do we do about Iran?" Any choice we make leads to bad circumstances. We can't pick the "best" choice because all of the circumstances depend on how the world interprets our actions. We want to be safe and we don't want anyone to die; the goals are mutually exclusive. If we leave them be, eventually they may attack us; we'll destroy them but we'll take damage. If we attack them without provocation, we'll destroy them but risk making enemies of more powerful people; what if Russia or China with all of their resources became the new Iran? I'm going to die either way, and I'd rather be remembered as the guy who shot back while bleeding than for starting a fight I couldn't finish.
Simplifying the problem to "it's them or us" is how we got here in the first place. Don't be so ignorant as to ignore complexity again and make it worse.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
Wow. That was incredibly nerdy, but also pretty accurate.
Good on you there, Atma.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
nalndlnla
TL;DR
Just kidding. I've never said that before because I think it's shitty.
Well said.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
AlphaDawg
Be afraid, linguine-spined libs, be very afraid... if the US doesn't strike Iran, Israel has made it no secret that they will. Because unlike a majority of us Americans (proof is in our President) Israel puts their self-preservation above all else.
Israel has more balls than we do when it comes to dealing the first blow. Their military force, especially the air force is on par with our own. They've taken our own weapons and made them better. Just look at what they were going to do to Hamas. Israel will gladly stick a missile up Iran's ass without thinking twice. I'm glad we have them on our side because I would hate to piss them off.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
franpa
Isn't that because everything worth defending is a part of the offensive?
FAIL!
no its because if you are always attacking and make your enemy always be on their heels, because there is no way for the opposition to set themselves and make a counter attack...
if I'm always punching you in the face every time you try to hit me.. odds are you are not ever gonna hit me.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
No matter how you look at the situation... I hope we do NOT fire the first shot. I hope we wait to see what others do/act/react... and go from there. A lot of people want to "poke" us to see how we will act/react. And I hope our government is *adult* enough not to over act/react to those "pokes".
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
forget that they did more then poke... I saw we set up a group of snipers and shoot all the pirate in one go...
show the world you don't play paddy cake when your trying to box.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Prrkitty
No matter how you look at the situation... I hope we do NOT fire the first shot. I hope we wait to see what others do/act/react... and go from there. A lot of people want to "poke" us to see how we will act/react. And I hope our government is *adult* enough not to over act/react to those "pokes".
Maybe if everyone who "poked" us got a thousand tons of incendiary bombs dropped on them, people would stop poking us.
People will only poke you if they think there are no consequences.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Beldaran
Maybe if everyone who "poked" us got a thousand tons of incendiary bombs dropped on them, people would stop poking us.
People will only poke you if they think there are no consequences.
Yeah, that'll go over well - bomb the fuck out of everyone who calls us bad names. But hey, I guess a constant state of unprovoked war will be a huge boon to the military industrial complex.
On a more serious note, does nobody remember the Iraq debacle? They poked us, we retaliated by basically leveling the country, and it turns out they weren't actually a threat in the first place and we got stuck with the cleaning bill.
I would very much like more evidence of open hostility beyond harsh language before our next FUBAR invasion.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Yeah, that'll go over well - bomb the fuck out of everyone who calls us bad names. But hey, I guess a constant state of unprovoked war will be a huge boon to the military industrial complex.
I don't mean people who "call us bad names". I mean people who constantly rant about how they want to annihilate us and starve their population in an effort to build nuclear weapons and shoot test missiles at our territory.
If you think all North Korea does is "call us bad names", you have your head plunged deeply into the sands of pacifist ignorance.
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Re: Pirates vs. the U.S. Navy
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Originally Posted by
Prrkitty
No matter how you look at the situation... I hope we do NOT fire the first shot. I hope we wait to see what others do/act/react... and go from there. A lot of people want to "poke" us to see how we will act/react. And I hope our government is *adult* enough not to over act/react to those "pokes".
The pirates are "poking" everybody. Germany is about to get involved in this because the pirates have taken some of their people before or they are still currently holding those people. I'll have to look up the info. I heard the last bit as I was walking out the door.
These pirates aren't going after just us. They are going after everyone they can.