Ah. Thank you, stungun. I can die happily now.
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There are only 5 things that need to be done (other than stabilizing)
1. Finish string editor
2. Finish enemy editor (finish implementing all the flags)
3. Finish item editor (naming items! hello?!!)
4. Finish subscreen editor (or at least somewhat)
5. Optimize scripting engine.
Now do that, stabilize ZC and nothing more! If you just keep adding features, there will be more and more bugs.
Which is also what I have been saying.
I think Zelda Classic has come to the point where advancing the engine further is a bad idea, fixing it is fine. But we'll want a new engine to continue with past this point. Yeah, we'll have a huge slump where we won't get all sorts of new stuff, but then we'll have something fresh. Without the piles of baggage that ZC already has.
well, we won't really be in a slump, there will be quest arising from all these new features in the meantime while we're waiting for a new engine.
Plus, people will keep scripting, and thus, the devs might get some ideas for newer items in the new engine. Though, if you ask me, if a new engine was made after 2.5, it should be an LttP engine. If it's supposed to have backwards compatibility with the old (current) engine, just put all the features from 2.5 into it that aren't already in. Simple as that, right? (Figure of speech. I don't mean that literally.) The reason I think LttP is because most of the features people want come from it or its GBA remake (Like Hurricane Spin). But that's just my opinion. For all I know, it could be a TMC engine instead... XD
Please note that I said where we won't be getting new features, I realize that people will be making their quests though. On the other hand, I actually forgot about scripting.
IF they build a new engine I imagine it will be able to do LttP and most likely Minish style as they are very similar.
I think a new Engine should focus more on Action-Adventure style games LIKE Zelda more so then Zelda itself... So many awesome games have been "Zelda Clones" but brought intresting thinks to the table (Secret of Mana, Alundra) If a new engine is made I think the developers should not be tied to a particular game. "A Generic Action Adventure Engine that is more then able to make a Zelda game."
This also makes current legal grey areas ZC falls in a little less grey.
*coughRPGMakercough*
I half like the idea and I half don't. On one hand, it allows for more flexibility than something strictly for Zelda. On the other hand, that makes me fearful of ZC becoming like RPG Maker and it does nothing but bring in such an onslaught of n00bs who do nothing but make incredibly crappy games. One of the things I always liked about ZC is how noone really knew about it. Although this reduced the community to only a few hundred people, it did mean that people who became serious about making games that were worth a shit were capable of forming without being smothered by the constant wave of newcomers.
we cud lwys hve R oWn LOCKED forum wr U hav to B a gd tiper und conribut to suff!!!!!!!!:):):):):):D:D:D:D
....
*Ahem*, sorry. But if you couldn't read that, we could always have our own locked thing where only those who can type in complete sentances with punctuation, and actually contribute rather than just ask questions and suggest outrageously complex features. The Beta forums have kinda been this way for a while, as most nOObs acess from zeldaclassic.com, but that could all change.
Yeah, grammar is undervalued here at AGN. There really should be rules against shorthand like at PZC. Abbreviations are okay, though. It makes everyone look bad when there are some lazy-as-heck typers. You pretty much summed it up in one sentence there, Amaster.
Really, look at my sig. N00bs are gonna make ZC look like crap even more if we don't do something.
Now something a little more on-topic.
No more features, please. Just minor nuisance fixes and 5-minute additions. Don't forget bugfixes! Those are just as, if not more important.
EDIT: Sweet!! My power is rising!! 300 posts!
I like ZC as it is, to remake the engine would mean that this community would
fall to the same fate as 2.5. in short it would no longer be ZC, just a knock off
of the many existing RPG making games, that are as impersonal as anything.
ZC may be aging, but it is Zelda, and to change now to a RPG clone, would lose
the feel of what made me come here in the first place. I like Zelda, as do many
of you. the engine has expanded far beyond it's original constraints to become
what you see today, I know there are a ton of bugs from trying to add too many
new features at a time, but as you can see though, new features still can be done.
why start a new engine now, when all you have to do is go get already
existing RPG making software, it would be no different. now if the new
engine was backwards compatable with old ZC quests, but feature the
LTTP / MC engine then that would be fine. but a full on full RPG making cloner
WHY?, when you already have so many available to you now... go use one of them and leave ZC alone.
ZC is ZC and always should be, even if you move along to the Z3 engine at
least it would still be in the Zelda realm, and you can make better quests
I know with Z3, but like I said Z3 is still Zelda, and that is what this
community is a ZELDA fan based arena.
I have been a ZC user for almost 3 years now, and I like it as it is, and I am
sure i'm not alone... I mean add new features YES!!!, by all means but YES
too no more until it has been made fully stable.
and I hope that it will be soon as I have put off quests to wait for a stable
release.
I know I don't post much here or at PZC, but after reading I thought I would
speak my piece as you all have done. but just because I don't post much don't mean
I don't use ZC or am some kind of newcomer or something...
and with the LOL nonsence please by all means NO MORE!!!!!!, that is what I have been
saying, learn to type and not be so damn lazy.
6. Add bottomless pits and drowning. (Tbe presence of the Roc's Feather insists upon this!) Also make the stepladder work for the aforementioned.
7. We still haven't got a decent Farore's Wind sound effect. One that matches the "popping" animation.
8. Item Drop editor.
9. Finish the instruction manual.
10. Scrolling?!? (The thought of it makes strong men shiver...)
11. Oh, yeah, sideview ladders, almost forgot.
Sounds pretty good. All I ask for should be pretty simple. GENERIC ITEM CLASSES. Jut make a few item classes with no properties, that's all I ask. Take about 5 minuites. And I thought Jman put Z3 Scrolling on hiatus until after 2.5. Also, we need to stay pure Zelda. I mean, other games can be made, but we shouldnt turn into an RPGMaker. Although, I will say I haven't seen an RPG Maker that can do live action like we have. If were lucky, 2.5 will inspire a 1.90-ish surge.
Yes I agree....this scrolling should....not be considered...at ALL. Leave well enough alone until after 2.5 For a dev to go behind everyone's backs and add it in and causing millions of bugs will get personally stabbed by me a thousand times, chopped up, pissed on and fed to my wolves.
That was . . graphic. Anyways, my thoughts have been added in their entirety.
Well, if we're agreed that a ladder combo:
* causes Link's sprite to change to a "climbing" sprite
* slows Link's movement
* prevents Link from using items and the sword
* prevents Link from falling
Then yeah, it sounds like a cinch. I'm just doing other things at the moment, that's all.
Also, I just noticed that scrolling's been taken off the list. Well, in that case I'll replace it with something else I forgot:
Quote:
1. Finish string editor
2. Finish enemy editor (finish implementing all the flags)
3. Finish item editor (naming items! hello?!!)
4. Finish subscreen editor (or at least somewhat)
5. Optimize scripting engine.
6. Add bottomless pits and drowning. (The presence of the Roc's Feather insists upon this!) Also make the stepladder work for the aforementioned. This isn't as hard as you think.
7. We still haven't got a decent Farore's Wind sound effect. One that matches the "popping" animation.
8. Item Drop editor.
9. Finish the instruction manual.
10. Finish NewDefault tileset.
11. Oh, yeah, sideview ladders, almost forgot.
_L_,
There are 17 full pages of bugs right now, and the list is growing everyday.
Jman would have long ago realized his goal and had a stable release out, had it not been for you adding things that are unfinished and bugged up.
yet....
You continue to add add add more more more.
When can we honestly expect you to actually get what you have added fixed and stop adding more?
The program has long since become totally unuseable, at best I might salvage what I had done in my quest, back in b15, and with a lot of repairwork possibly save.
I've long since come to the conclusion you are actually Glenn the Great, under the assumed name of _L_, come to put the last nail in the Zelda Classic coffin, by filling it with bloat that doesn't work and forever more corrupting it to its very foundation.
When can we expect a working Zelda Classic?
I and possibly ShadowTiger... maybe even DarkFlameWolf... would rather a new engine after 2.5 because it is just a massive pain keeping backwards compatibility.... YES it will have the exact same (maybe more) features as ZC 2.5 BUT will not play quests made in versions of ZC older then 2.5... as this would just allow the coders to clean the code up to an insane degree with a lot more ease and allows the coders to add and modify the code and fix bugs a hell of a lot quicker due to the code being organized better.
old versions will use a seperate bug free version designed to work with the old quests and there limited formats and many quirks... while new quests use a much less limited new quest format that just wont ever be easily ported to the old format...
i'd expect it would take the developer's who now know a hell of a lot more then when they first started zelda classic to take maybe a year to get a safe beta out the door... maybe even in less time.
Let me clarify my position, there are a lot of cool features to be found in games that "clone" the Zelda formula. Some of these have been suggested, but shot down simply because they are "Not Zelda." Yet if incorperated into the engine, they could cirtainly improve the quest making experiance (Zelda or Not.) Perhaps its time this subject (The idea of a fresh Zelda Classic Engine) got its own topic for further discussion? It seems to have less and less to do with beta 16.
my idea will allow for non zelda things to get implemented more easily aswell.
That's a pretty strong assumption there Freedom. I just pray you aren't right.
Yeah Freedom...
_L_'s features have been ruining ZC for a long time, so sometimes I have to wonder about his motives. But I don't want to believe that his true intention is to harm ZC...
_L_, is it so insanely hard and impossiblefor you to concetrate on bugfixing only... I mean you have skill, but you use it in the wrong way. >_<
O.o EVERYONE STOP! GEEZ, STOP ATTACKING EACH OTHER! *asplodes*
/me joins in on the asploding party.
The features _L_ mentioned are really needed to complete the next version. For example, it wouldn't be good if the many "Not yet implemented" text remains in the subscreen editor.
However, after every feature is fully implemented, an only-bugfix thing would hit the spot.
IThose harsh words about _L_... well... like a bad joke. (Yes, I know how buggy the nowadays versions are. Although, I found only few... Surely I played too few quests... (not))
*kinda joins DFW*
we include finishing stuff not fully implemented as a bug fix... but just adding stuff for no reason but to add it... thats just not something a few elite quest creators desire.
Adding bottomless pits and drownable water solves several problems.
* Since drowning water must be walkable, it will no longer stop Octorok projectiles and other such things from passing across it. It also eliminates the not-so-logical dipping-into-water delay.
* It also allows the quest maker to use pit combos that both the Ladder and the Feather can cross. Or pits that require jumping off the Ladder!
* And thirdly, it eliminates the use of pit warps, damage combos and extra screens that are currently used to simulate bottomless pits.
In fact, I've already got the basics laid down. In the coming builds the "Can Drown in Walkable Water" quest rule should be available. (Note: I don't control the release of builds, so don't expect it tomorrow.)
And Sideview Ladders solve the problems about going up in gravity rooms. So, instead of looking at them as more new features, perhaps you could either look at them as updates to old features or BUGFIXES? I mean, if you're going to look at finishing the "Not Implemented" items in the Subscreen Editor as bugfixes, then you HAVE to look at a few of _L_'s ideas as bugfixes, too. Drowning and falling have already been started, according to jman, and Sideview ladders have been REQUIRED since Gravity came into ZC, which TECHNICALLY could be considered an unimplimented feature! So at least let Falling, Drowning, and Sideview Ladders come into ZCV without arguement. You have to admit, with what's already been done, they HAVE to be put in, so why not just bury the hatchet right here and right now? It'll make everyone happy.
...And now I run away so I can stay out of this! :)
don't forget that removing unfinished stuff is like the biggest kind of a fix for bugs....
Not if its already so deeply entrenched and woven with the rest of the source - then it can be quite annoying to unhook it from the rest of it. Believe me, I'm currently having the fun converting a DirectX program to OpenGL, which means I am trying to unhook all of my "pure" game engine from my sprite engine and graphics code... :(
I agree with -L- that it is very important to finish what one has started. The before announced additions will finally round out weakspots that currently exist - and make 2.5 a definitive release. :)
splatty
Where that all may be true, the problem seems to be that _L_ hasn't been FINISHING things before moving on to some other new addition, and that seems to be the biggest underlying problem with testing then....
Knowing if it's a bug or if it was never finished to start with and as such THAT is the reason it won't work.
also... you can remove access to the end user to the parts that are woven deeply into the code so as to not upset other parts of the code till a suitable replacement is made.
i like the way it is set up so far but it is just a bata but it is still very asome. i cant wait for the full viershion comes out but the bata vershion i am useing of the 2.11 bata (16) is still the beast one out there.