Re: Worst President Ever!
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Originally Posted by
ctrl-alt-delete
Come on, Bel. I expected more from you.
Typo. My most common typos are grammatical because I go too fast and if something "sounds" correct then I don't notice it.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Cloral
On the other hand, W isn't on their lists yet as he is still in office. I have to think you only made this list because deep down you know W is terrible, and you wanted to make yourself feel better by trying to get others to tell you he isn't the worst ever. So why even bother? Why not just go watch some Fox News and let their soothing lies surround you. Whatever helps you sleep better at night, right?
Wow, strawman climbs out of his hole again. He sees his shadow. Six more weeks of BS.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Okay. so to be clear here, yes, Dubbya is a bad president, but he's not the worst president in history. I'm sorry, but "not sucking as much as Harding" is a pretty lame goal in terms of presidential excellence. I mean, about the best I can say about Dubbya is that he implemented NCLB, and that was a complete disaster - I respect his determination to improve our school system, but damn, he sure picked a terrible way to go about it.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Starkist
Wow, strawman climbs out of his hole again. He sees his shadow. Six more weeks of BS.
... Just out of curiosity, is it even possible for you to have any sort of political conversation without going on about your precious "strawman?"
I need to start keeping track of how often you use it.
Re: Worst President Ever!
The problem is that people have no sense of historical perspective. Most of the issues that people use to call President Bush a failed president are ones of ideological disagreement, not objective failures. Talk to most conservatives, and you find that President Reagan is one of the best presidents and President Clinton is one of the worst. Talk to many liberals, and the opposite is true.
Many years from now we will have the benefit of perspective. We will be removed from the passions of ideological disagreement and we will also be able to see how this administration's actions play out in the long term.
Patience and perspective are hard for the post-MTV generation, I know, but it is important, especially from a historical perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DarkDragoonX
... Just out of curiosity, is it even for you to have any sort of political conversation without going on about your precious "strawman?"
I need to start keeping track of how often you use it.
I try, but you all keep doing it. :shrug:
Re: Worst President Ever!
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Originally Posted by
rock_nog
Honestly, I feel bad for Jimmy. I mean, the things he had going against him weren't really his fault. The economy tanked because of the oil crisis, and the oil crisis happened because of the Iranian revolution. As for the hostage situation, Jimmy was the one that really did all the work to get the hostages free - it was only bad timing that they weren't released until Reagan took office, letting him take all the credit while basically having done nothing.
Eh, it's just one of the hazards of the job, I guess.
Jimmy brought upon the Iranian revolution by subverting the Shah of Iran! The Shah may have been a murderous thug, but he was on our side, and sometimes you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (Hence our support of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war.) And believe me, it was no coincidence the hostages were set free the day Ronaldus Magnus was inaugurated. Reagan didn't actually do anything, but he didn't have to, as the threat of force was legitimate. THAT was what made Jimmy Carter a miserable failure of a president. He was, and still is, a hopeless pacifist. Diplomacy does nothing if you can't back it up with force.
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Originally Posted by
Cloral
If ever there was a president that deserved to be impeached, it was him. He basically told the supreme court to go fuck itself. Alas, for a president to be impeached he has to be unpopular, and Jackson was too popular at the time.
I dunno about that... BJ Clinton was pretty popular and only became more so during l'affair Lewinsky, yet he was impeached. Perhaps the difference was Jackson's party held both houses of Congress during his whole term in office, save for the Senate in the 23rd Congress.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Starkist
Many years from now we will have the benefit of perspective. We will be removed from the passions of ideological disagreement and we will also be able to see how this administration's actions play out in the long term.
The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.
However, to have a productive capitalist democracy you need to have productive capitalist people. Iraq does not have, for the most part, productive capitalist people. It has deeply religious tribal sects that can't do anything but argue and blame everyone for their own culture. George Bush's plan has, and will continue to, fail. In one hundred years, his plan will be viewed as a failure because it is already a failure.
Unless in 100 years people suddenly decide that igniting sectarian violence in volatile regions and trying to force feed your ideology (however superior that ideology is) down the throat of a culture that is too primitive to understand it is a great idea. Then GW will be seen as a real winner.
Aside from that, I don't know how anyone will ever have their head far enough up their ass to view this semi-literate, English as a third language beer drinking Jesus freak as a good president.
Re: Worst President Ever!
If I recall, from Social Studies, Hoover was pretty useless. He tried some things to prevent the Great Depression from happening, and failed miserably. But I really suck at making opinions on things, let alone opinions on presidents, so I can't really say.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beldaran
The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.
Bel actually thinks that Bush is the only president who ever thought this. :laughing:
Never mind the Korean War, Vietnam, South America, etc.
Re: Worst President Ever!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beldaran
The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.
However, to have a productive capitalist democracy you need to have productive capitalist people. Iraq does not have, for the most part, productive capitalist people. It has deeply religious tribal sects that can't do anything but argue and blame everyone for their own culture. George Bush's plan has, and will continue to, fail. In one hundred years, his plan will be viewed as a failure because it is already a failure.
Unless in 100 years people suddenly decide that igniting sectarian violence in volatile regions and trying to force feed your ideology (however superior that ideology is) down the throat of a culture that is too primitive to understand it is a great idea. Then GW will be seen as a real winner.
Aside from that, I don't know how anyone will ever have their head far enough up their ass to view this semi-literate, English as a third language beer drinking Jesus freak as a good president.
You know, this is why I keep bringing up the strawman fallacy. I never tried to argue to that Bush has been a good president. I am just pointing out that until we have the benefit of historical perspective, any judgment is ultimately premature.