Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Gee Whiz, I haven't graced these boards since
Quote:
Last Activity: 01-21-2007 11:25 pm
Now all you noob wannabee's want to rag the Petoe for telling the truth.
The truth is Zelda Classic used to be a cool free program, but now that "L" has started on it, it's way over priced at free.
TIME is money, and completely redoing progress you've made in a quest because some guy wants to feed his ego by having noobs tell him how cool he is for overstuffing an already unworkable program with bloat, is TIME.
What do you noobs know about spending a year or more on a quest only to have it destroyed by a guy who could care less what the people who USE the program think?
What do you noobs know about waiting SEVERAL YEARS for a stable release, and then being promised one last year, only to realize your quest has been destroyed and a stable release is STILL a year away IF IT EVER COMES?
Petoe needs to speak his mind, it's you noobs that need to STFU.
The truth is... Petoe has forgotten more about the program than you noobs have ever learned.
Defend "L" and it will ALWAYS be this way, and you will NEVER see a program worth wasting you time with.
Thank God I've found more worthwhile things to do with my time, and the more time I spend away from here, the clearer it becomes, that it will never change, and there will never be a Zelda Classic program that is really worthy of anyone investing any serious time in building quests with.
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Petoe. Or Peteo. Depends what mood you're in.
You are one of the best quest makers and one of my "idols" when I was a... new bud at quest designing. I played through Mega Man and was in freaking awe when I saw some of your tricks. Same with IotW, same with Link to Tortuga, same with Hero of Dreams (though it's newer), etc, etc. There aren't too many quality quest makers out there. I was (for lack of a better word) devastated when Freedom left, and expect the same if you leave.
Now, being a fairly rational person, I can see it in your and Freedom's way, but also in _L_'s way. I agree that 2.5 will never be released with all these features, which leads to bugs that we may never predict; I agree that it's great that we have all these features.
According to _L_'s checklist, there aren't too many more things to add. And they seem to be easy (in a dev's POV) to implement. So I say let's allow the dev(s) to finish off with these features. Then, we can beta test the crap out of the programs so that we don't get another buggy release (cough, 2.10).
Would you look at that, Freedom is viewing this thread.
EDIT: Would you look at that, Freedom beat me to posting. :D
EDIT 2:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
What do you noobs know about waiting SEVERAL YEARS for a stable release, and then being promised one last year, only to realize your quest has been destroyed and a stable release is STILL a year away IF IT EVER COMES?
I felt the same way about Twilight Princess. Oh, I hope it isn't too early for brazen humor.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom
The truth is... Petoe has forgotten more about the program than you noobs have ever learned.
(I don't remember who said this, but...) Quoted for truth. That sum's it up perfectly. I feel that Zelda Classic is no longer classic.
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Well I guess I don't have to post here anymore as Freedom's post said it all I have wanted to say...
Freedom is a respectable ZC veteran and more people should listen to him. he really knows what he is talking about.
And Pineconn, believe me, I don't wanna abandon ZC and all the great fans, ZC is my favorite hobby and I'm a creative person and feel ZC is the best way to express myself. But what can I do if this inanity will not stop? AS I said, LI will get released, that's a promise, but after that, I don't know what to do really... we'll see what _L_ does I guess...
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Let me clarify that I am defending both sides of this issue. I want to get my money's worth. (despite the fact that ZC is free) I like that _L_ is adding the features I always wanted way back when, (over 2 years ago) I remember the days of the 184 player, (in fact I didn't use 2.10 after I found out how buggy it was) and about a year later, out comes b10. If you think of where it started bugwise, there have been a lot of bugfixes. You'd be surprised how little harm _L_ is actually doing. I like stability too, and you'd probably be amazed of how many bugs _L_ has fixed. (although DN probably fixed the most bugs out of all the devs, despite him being the oldest dev) _L_'s the second-newest dev. Every dev has made their own fair share of improvements and bugfixes. I can truly see 2.5 released by September 30. I can think of it as my birthday present. I really don't mind the fact that the updates and whatnot are taking so long because the devs must devote their free time to work on ZC.
I have to re-iterate:
If you don't like where ZC is going, use an older version! There's no point in complaining about features you wont use. If you don't like it, dont use it! You can either deal with it or pointlessly whine. Or you can enjoy what you already have. If you bludgeon _L_ he'll just get unmotivated leading to an unfinished ZC.
I remember a while back when I said that I bet that nobody could say anything constructive. Well, everyone's attempts failed except mine, ST's, pikaguy500's, (I think) and even Revfan's. (I think)
Some philosopher (or someone) said that for every destructive criticism, you need 5 constructive criticisms. You better get to apologizing, guys!
EDIT: Has anyone noticed that _L_ has sat out the debate for the last 10 or so posts? I think you scared him away.
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beefster09
Let me clarify that I am defending both sides of this issue. I want to get my money's worth. (despite the fact that ZC is free) I like that _L_ is adding the features I always wanted way back when, (over 2 years ago) I remember the days of the 184 player, (in fact I didn't use 2.10 after I found out how buggy it was) and about a year later, out comes b10. If you think of where it started bugwise, there have been a lot of bugfixes. You'd be surprised how little harm _L_ is actually doing. I like stability too, and you'd probably be amazed of how many bugs _L_ has fixed. (although DN probably fixed the most bugs out of all the devs, despite him being the oldest dev) _L_'s the second-newest dev. Every dev has made their own fair share of improvements and bugfixes. I can truly see 2.5 released by September 30. I can think of it as my birthday present. I really don't mind the fact that the updates and whatnot are taking so long because the devs must devote their free time to work on ZC.
I have to re-iterate:
If you don't like where ZC is going, use an older version! There's no point in complaining about features you wont use. If you don't like it, dont use it! You can either deal with it or pointlessly whine. Or you can enjoy what you already have. If you bludgeon _L_ he'll just get unmotivated leading to an unfinished ZC.
I remember a while back when I said that I bet that nobody could say anything constructive. Well, everyone's attempts failed except mine, ST's, pikaguy500's, (I think) and even Revfan's. (I think)
Some philosopher (or someone) said that for every destructive criticism, you need 5 constructive criticisms. You better get to apologizing, guys!
EDIT: Has anyone noticed that _L_ has sat out the debate for the last 10 or so posts? I think you scared him away.
Yea well, ride that fence for all it's worth, you'll be coming down off of it soon enough.
This is the exact same discussion that was going when I left 3 months ago, and it will be the same again when I look back in 3 months from now.
IF they would release a stable bug free version, these conversations would NOT be taking place, the point is there ISN'T a version worth building a quest in.
192b182 the debug keys were in there.
192b183 the map crash
192b184 the boss enemies
2.10 the shop bug.
EVERY one of those versions gave players serious problems.
2.11b10b was the best of all of those up to that point, and it COULD have been fine tuned and released, instead they went back the other way and destroyed the quests that would work in that version.
NOBODY has ever complained about the progress, it's not having a stable version available that people have complained about.
GET a stable version, THEN add more with the builds, DON'T just keep adding bloat to something that doesn't work already.
Has common sense just left the building, or what?
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
beefster09
Let me clarify that I am defending both sides of this issue. I want to get my money's worth. (despite the fact that ZC is free) I like that _L_ is adding the features I always wanted way back when, (over 2 years ago) I remember the days of the 184 player, (in fact I didn't use 2.10 after I found out how buggy it was) and about a year later, out comes b10. If you think of where it started bugwise, there have been a lot of bugfixes. You'd be surprised how little harm _L_ is actually doing. I like stability too, and you'd probably be amazed of how many bugs _L_ has fixed. (although DN probably fixed the most bugs out of all the devs, despite him being the oldest dev) _L_'s the second-newest dev. Every dev has made their own fair share of improvements and bugfixes. I can truly see 2.5 released by September 30. I can think of it as my birthday present. I really don't mind the fact that the updates and whatnot are taking so long because the devs must devote their free time to work on ZC.
I have to re-iterate:
If you don't like where ZC is going, use an older version! There's no point in complaining about features you wont use. If you don't like it, dont use it! You can either deal with it or pointlessly whine. Or you can enjoy what you already have. If you bludgeon _L_ he'll just get unmotivated leading to an unfinished ZC.
I remember a while back when I said that I bet that nobody could say anything constructive. Well, everyone's attempts failed except mine, ST's, pikaguy500's, (I think) and even Revfan's. (I think)
Some philosopher (or someone) said that for every destructive criticism, you need 5 constructive criticisms. You better get to apologizing, guys!
EDIT: Has anyone noticed that _L_ has sat out the debate for the last 10 or so posts? I think you scared him away.
It's "pikaguy900". ;)
But yeah... Quoted for awesomeness.... That is... I'm kinda surprised anyone has the guts to go up against Freedom... I've seen what he's like....
The way I see it is this:
_L_ wants to combine certain enemy types together as one so people can have more customization and to make things a bit easier in making custom enemies, right? Yet isn't this what he said was gonna keep him from maintaining backwards-compatibility? If so, then here's the oh-so-obvious solution:
Get _L_ to return the enemy editor back to the way it was, when nearly every enemy type was seperate from the rest.
I don't really see the point in combining them all much. Also, I was under the impression that backwards-compatibility HAD to be maintained bewteen versions, whether full releases or not.
Now, uh... That's the against-_L_ part, now for the semi-against-Peteo part.
Here's a suggestion, Peteo & DFW (And I'm being totally honest here): If _L_ DOES go through with his ideas and breaks backwards-compatibility with older custom enemies and thus, breaks the custom enemies in LI, why not look for someone who wouldn't mind setting the enemies back up for you? Like, say... Me? I've got PLENTY of time on my hands, and I honestly wouldn't mind setting them back up for you if _L_ breaks them. 'Sides, it's the least I can do if I can't find some way to get _L_ to stop his madness. ;)
There's my two cents. I'm neutral here. I don't like that _L_ plans to break custom enemies from previous betas JUST so his plans can be finished, but yet, I think that if Peteo and DFW don't have the time to fix up all the enemies, they can always ask someone who DOES have the time (like me) to do all that for them. See? There's almost always a solution. :)
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
(For the record, I'm neutral too. Luckily I didn't start making a quest since I have my 2.10 quest to finish.)
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Originally Posted by pikaguy900
I've got PLENTY of time on my hands...
You are so lucky. ;)
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Originally Posted by Freedom
2.10 the shop bug.
Oh, and you can't forget about the "Map->Secrets" glitch. How nasty that one is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petoe
And Pineconn, believe me, I don't wanna abandon ZC and all the great fans, ZC is my favorite hobby and I'm a creative person and feel ZC is the best way to express myself. But what can I do if this inanity will not stop? AS I said, LI will get released, that's a promise, but after that, I don't know what to do really... we'll see what _L_ does I guess...
I'm glad that you'd be reluctant to... leave. And that LI will come out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefster09
Has anyone noticed that _L_ has sat out the debate for the last 10 or so posts? I think you scared him away.
I have a feeling that he might be making some major changes to 2.5, either "good" or "bad."
(Hm, I suppose I could have organized that jumble of quotes... Mm, nah.)
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pineconn
You are so lucky. ;)
For my response to this, I'll quote the terrible CD-i Zelda game, "The Faces of Evil".
You've GOT to be kidding.
I have plenty of time on my hands, but 'tis true, I have things to do, also... Mainly at the whim of my parents, though. >_>
All who vote for getting rid of _L_, say "pancakes"! :p
(...I'm not gonna say it. I say, give the guy a few more chances...)
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
Well, then you're lucky you don't have my teachers. I have to make a bumper sticker, a T-shirt, a button, and a poster along with 8 100-word essays for a teacher. Due Tuesday. (Well, it was assigned a little bit ago.)
Argh, CD-i! You actually played a CD-i Zelda game?! ...I am very sorry. :(
Yeah, devs actually are pretty under-appreciated. I think _L_ just got a little too carried away. No biiiig deal. (That last sentence may be controversial. Great, now I'm like Imus. :p)
Re: Enemy Editor Discussion and Questions
It's all about the tradeoff. Freedom, Petoe, and people like you: think about it. If we release 2.5 now we may have saved a few months, but than are you willing to wait the possibly 2 years or more for the next version of ZC, if the past is any experiance. I am just as impatiant as you, and that's why I want this, so that the next version with all the as of yet non-implemented features I want isn't years off.
I would like to resuggest at this point my idea of "1 feature" builds, where 2.6 has a feature or two and is completely stable, 2.7 has a few more, etc.
Back on topic, L, did you say most of the flags were going away, or obsoleting, or somthing. Only some of them(especially the "invulnerable from [dir]" ones) I was planning on using for making really cool custom bosses(Once we have larger enemies, of course)