-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Doesn't animal cruelty enter your thoughts when thinking about animal fighting... at all?
You say... '... important history in many cultures"... are you serious? The Spanish government is honestly rethinking their stance on bull fighting and are thinking of banishing the sport from their country... on the stance of animal cruelty.
Cock fighting, dog fighting... it IS animal cruelty. It is exploiting an animals need to dominate another of it's kind.
In nature it is one thing. When used as a sport... an entertainment for humanity... it should be illegal.
Cruelty of anything for humanities entertainment... is just plain wrong. But then again - that is just my two cents.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Animal cruelty doesn't exist in my mind. Human cruelty, yes. But not animal.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Animals feel pain too. If I stab you in the stomach it hurts just as much as a dog getting stabbed in the stomach.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
phattonez
Animals feel pain too. If I stab you in the stomach it hurts just as much as a dog getting stabbed in the stomach.
I don't buy that. I don't think the animals are sentient.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I hope to God that you NEVER own an animal. For if it ever breaks its leg, becomes ill or something like that... I can tell right now that the animal will suffer if it's in your care.
Animals with broken legs cry out in pain when that leg is jostled, moved around or something like that.
Animals might not be "sentient" as you are saying... but they DAMN SURE HAVE FEELINGS! (I need to go look up the meaning of sentient)
*politely leaves this discussion before I find myself banned from the board*
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
You've obviously never seen the killing of an animal, Glenn. They feel pain just as much as you do.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Excuse me Glenn, but you're overlooking one simple fact.
Humans are nothing more than highly evolved mammals.
Sure we have bigger brains, but in the end, we're not much different from the creatures we share this planet with.
If you're still not convinced, then here's another fun fact:
Pain is the body's way of delivering a warning that something is causing damage to the body in some way.
If animals couldn't feel pain, then they'd die incredibly quickly, because they would never know that something is harming them. And causing harm to another creature just for the sake of entertainment is just wrong.
Hypothetical situation: Aliens land on earth, deem us to be nothing more than low level, non-sentient animals, and kill us for entertainment. Would you have a problem with that?
...
...
...I thought so.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I still stand by what I said earlier. Glenn has a very fucked up view of life and will be a very lonely person as the years go by because of it. This just adds to it.
Animals have all the parts and organs a human does and they feel pain just like us. My dog got her paw caught in the cage door and she was limping for a few minutes and whining from the pain. My horse was screaming when a stray dog bit her. They feel pain just like us and unless you can prove other wise you lose.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
So back to topic, I heard that Vick pleaded guilty.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I think that as long as both dogs are of age they should be able to fight if they want to as long as they do it in their own homes and aren't hurting anyone else :)
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
I think that as long as both dogs are of age they should be able to fight if they want to as long as they do it in their own homes and aren't hurting anyone else :)
How do you suppose a dog can give informed consent?
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
When I read that I thought he was kidding. I hope he was kidding.
So when do we get to hear the sentence?
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I hope Michael Vick gets fucked up the ass in prison.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Beldaran
I hope Michael Vick gets fucked up the ass in prison.
He's got the muscle of an NFL quarterback, so he'll probably be safe.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
He's got the muscle of an NFL quarterback, so he'll probably be safe.
Yes the muscle of a pro football player is gonna save you from a group of horny convicts looking to screw something.
I don't know why he tried to deny it in the first place since he knew they were gonna find him guilty.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
Animal cruelty doesn't exist in my mind. Human cruelty, yes. But not animal.
What I'm about to say is not meant as an attack... at all.
Glenn... I'm slowly coming to the belief/realization that you will voice outrageous opinions/thoughts/etc just for the "shock 'n awe" reaction to what you've had to say.
I know not whether you believe half of what you say but honestly it doesn't matter. I think it's a tactic of yours to get attention - be it good or bad attention. And then again it could also be a ploy, just as someone playing "devils advocate" is, to liven up what's being discussed at that moment in time.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AlexMax
How do you suppose a dog can give informed consent?
They sign contracts with their paw prints OK?
Also Prrkitty are you just realizing Glenn is a pretty constant troll?
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I personally don't care if Glenn doesn't believe animal cruelty is legitimate. Frankly, I think it requires you to be a very emotionally dead and possibly hate filled person to not care about animal cruelty, but as long as he obeys the animal cruelty laws I don't care what he thinks about it.
Sort of like how I think you should be able to shoot drunk drivers on sight, but I don't do it because it's illegal. [I don't really think that.]
[I do think they should get 10 years in prison minimum for a single DUI, however.]
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
Also Prrkitty are you just realizing Glenn is a pretty constant troll?
I'd hoped what I kept seeing of his posts... wasn't a constant. Apparently it is.
From this point on I will not act/react to his wildly ludicrous and mostly outrageous comments/thoughts/opinions/etc.
It doesn't help me and it definately doesn't help him. For if I did it would be akin to 'enabling'. And I refuse to be an enabler.
<blah>
Now... back on topic... discussion of Vick. Seems everyone is waiting on the Football Officials to decide if he can or can't play anymore. Guess we'll see soon.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I hope he goes to jail so that the question does not even come up.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Even if he goes to jail there are already people predicting he will be back in the NFL by 2009. The question comes down to what is more important to the NFL, their ethics or money.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Well there's an easy answer to that.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Ok... Vick admits to dog killing and conspiracy: http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24...ick/index.html
I won't quote any of it. At this point I'm still a bit confused about *exactly* what he's admitted to compared to what he's being charged with... and what the prosecution will seek as a punishment.
Although this one comment kinda proves he's gonna get off easy:
-
Quote: Federal prosecutors agreed to ask for the low end of the sentencing guidelines.
-
... low end of the sentencing guildelines? A slap on the wrist and sent on his way?
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Well, it's the right outcome. Vick didn't really do anything. He certainly didn't do any more than the people responsible for putting dinner on the table the other night did.
He never did anything to anyone. Some animals got hurt, yeah. But that's nature. Animals kill eachother every day.
Vick has been the victim of sensationalism. Less than 1% of humans to ever live would consider his actions a crime. Those who do consider it one nowadays are mostly comprised of little old ladies like Prrkitty.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I think you should be a little more respectful of Prrkitty. Would you talk to a woman in person with that lack of respect and manners?
Little old ladies are not the only ones disgusted by animal cruelty. They are probably outnumbered by young and middle-aged people with a well developed sense of ethics.
I think what Vick did is reprehensible and he should be banned from the NFL forever. He should also be forced to volunteer his time to animal shelters for a long time to come. He should also be ass raped by a dog. What a jerk.
While I don't like it when everyone is abhorrently mean to you, Glenn, I can hardly come to your defense in this matter. I can't emphasize enough how much I disagree with you. Animal cruelty is sick.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
He never did anything to anyone. Some animals got hurt, yeah. But that's nature. Animals kill eachother every day.
Not in a forced fight like people put them through. When it comes to topics regarding animals it's best if you just don't even post in it.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
Well, it's the right outcome. Vick didn't really do anything. He certainly didn't do any more than the people responsible for putting dinner on the table the other night did.
He never did anything to anyone. Some animals got hurt, yeah. But that's nature. Animals kill eachother every day.
Vick has been the victim of sensationalism. Less than 1% of humans to ever live would consider his actions a crime. Those who do consider it one nowadays are mostly comprised of little old ladies like Prrkitty.
You're trolling, right? You can't possibly be this emotionally and ethically bankrupt.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
It's a pretty good troll too because practically every post he makes spawns 8 or 9 responses you guys just keep biting and biting!
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24...ick/index.html
-
Quote: The National Football League has indefinitely suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick without pay, officials with the league said Friday.
Earlier, Vick admitted to participating in a dogfighting ring as part of a plea agreement with federal prosecutors in Virginia.
"Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible. Your team, the NFL, and NFL fans have all been hurt by your actions," NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a letter to Vick.
Goodell said he would review the status of the suspension after the legal proceedings are over.
In papers filed Friday with a federal court in Virginia, Vick also admitted that he and two co-conspirators killed dogs that did not fight well.
-
A victory for animal abuse. :) This 'little old lady' is very happy.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Prrkitty
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/24...ick/index.html
-
Quote: The National Football League has indefinitely suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick without pay, officials with the league said Friday.
Earlier, Vick admitted to participating in a dogfighting ring as part of a plea agreement with federal prosecutors in Virginia.
"Your admitted conduct was not only illegal, but also cruel and reprehensible. Your team, the NFL, and NFL fans have all been hurt by your actions," NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a letter to Vick.
Goodell said he would review the status of the suspension after the legal proceedings are over.
In papers filed Friday with a federal court in Virginia, Vick also admitted that he and two co-conspirators killed dogs that did not fight well.
-
A victory for animal abuse. :) This 'little old lady' is very happy.
WOOT!
I just finished spreading the word to my rescue groups/shelters about CK's Spike needing a home. Now I gotta turn around and e-mail everyone about this again.
Glenn I would love it if the ALF kidnapped you in the middle of the night.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
The part that I think sucks about this is that it will add to the bad rep of dogs like pit bulls. Most dogs are not mean tempered by nature, excluding Dalmatians, they have to be trained to be mean. Things like this though make people think that certain breeds of dogs are viscous killing machines.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I keep hearing about this on the tv's news and the interweb's news. It's crazy. Really shameful, too. It's seriously the exact same mentality as a little 4 year old putting two bugs in a jar, shaking it, and watching them fight. It's so lame of those types of people
I'm really against animal cruelty, I would like to get into a field of helping them out sometime, too. It really sickens me to see what crappy excuses people have to say when their animals are about to die from neglect and just horrible "care".
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Trevelyan_06
The part that I think sucks about this is that it will add to the bad rep of dogs like pit bulls. Most dogs are not mean tempered by nature, excluding Dalmatians, they have to be trained to be mean. Things like this though make people think that certain breeds of dogs are viscous killing machines.
The problem is even if the dog has been trained, some breeds were bred to do violent things.
Let's use pit bulls for an example. The purpose of the dog was to attack a bull if it appeared as if it would attack a farmer. The dog was bred to have powerful jaws so it could basically latch on to the bull and never let go no matter how hard the bull fights. The dog was bred to be powerful and attack animals many times larger than itself, so it's doubtful that a pit bull would be intimidated by the size of a person and naturally avoid violent behavior towards people.
Even if a pit bull is trained to be well-tempered, his natural instincts are protective. A lot of times people have trouble making "threat/safe" analysis of other people, and dogs have this problem too. However, when a person makes an incorrect judgment there is often an opportunity to reason with them and convince them their decision was wrong. It is much more difficult to reason with a pit bull.
This problem is made more difficult with the fact that, through language context and understandings of friendships, most people can interpret friendly violent actions such as noogies from chokeholds. Dogs are not so good at this.
Honestly I don't think the dogs should be banned, but I do think the "oh whatever if you raise a dog right they are perfectly safe" attitude is a bit foolish. The owner should be responsible for keeping the dog leashed or behind some form of fence at all times for the safety of others.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
It doesn't really sound like the dogs actually get forced to fight.
They take two dogs, and put them in a ring. Everything else is up to the dogs. Dog A runs in, and sees Dog B, and thoughts of carnage and violence flood its fleshy id-dominated mind. It strongly desires to kill Dog B, and starts doing so.
Maybe the dogs should just not attack eachother? :shrug:
The whole issue is absurd. Our culture has gradually started to value animals more than people. Killing endangered animals often carries greater penalties than the murder of a human. Maybe it has something to do with too much watching of cartoons featuring anthropomorphic talking cute animals.
For the God-fearing crowd, how might you explain the Old Testament animal sacrifices? It's like God gives permission to kill animals because they don't have souls, and thus even though the animal body writhes in pain, there is nothing inside of it actively "feeling" anything.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
It doesn't really sound like the dogs actually get forced to fight.
They take two dogs, and put them in a ring. Everything else is up to the dogs. Dog A runs in, and sees Dog B, and thoughts of carnage and violence flood its fleshy id-dominated mind. It strongly desires to kill Dog B, and starts doing so.
The reason why they fight in the first place is usually because they are beaten and mistreated to the point where they become aggressive or they are starved so when they are put into the ring with another dog, killing the other dog (they think) is their opportunity to eat.
If either of those two situations are true, doesn't the whole thing go back to the responsibility of the owner(s)?
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Glenn, the animals were egged on to fight. You have to dogs in a ring, if they don't fight, you have to intentionally make them mad to get them to fight. They won't always just fight on their own.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AtmaWeapon
Honestly I don't think the dogs should be banned, but I do think the "oh whatever if you raise a dog right they are perfectly safe" attitude is a bit foolish. The owner should be responsible for keeping the dog leashed or behind some form of fence at all times for the safety of others.
I agree. I didn't mean to sound as if I thought that every dog breed out there is a big friendly teddy bear that just wants to lick your hand. Owners do need to be responsible for the dogs and realize which breeds are good with kids, etc. and which aren't.
What I was referring to more was the fact that some people see that someone has a pitbull and even though it's behind a fence and leashed they have this absurd notion that it's going to break it's chains and go on an all out killing spree until the entire neighborhood is dead just because it's a pit bull.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenn the Great
They take two dogs, and put them in a ring. Everything else is up to the dogs. Dog A runs in, and sees Dog B, and thoughts of carnage and violence flood its fleshy id-dominated mind. It strongly desires to kill Dog B, and starts doing so.
The whole issue is absurd. Our culture has gradually started to value animals more than people. Killing endangered animals often carries greater penalties than the murder of a human. Maybe it has something to do with too much watching of cartoons featuring anthropomorphic talking cute animals.
First off, the dogs are starved, tortured and otherwise enticed to fight one another. Most animals will naturally avoid a fight if they can. When you say that Dog A "strongly desires to kill Dog B" you make it sound that the dog has in fact planed to murder the other dog. That's absurd, humans are the only animals that can carry out pre-meditated murder. The dog is simply hungry and hurt/defensive and sees in front of it both a source of food and a threat.
Secondly, WTF on the endangered animals thing? This is a chart of the penalties for killing endangered animals. Seems that the maximum for KILLING and endangered animal for the first time is a mere $3500. If in fact you could kill a human and get away with less, than I think there would be lots more dead filling our graveyards.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/08/27...ick/index.html
-
Quote:
NEW: Falcons owner says team won't cut Michael Vick right away
NEW: General manager: Team sends out "demand letter" for $22 million bonus
After dogfighting conspiracy plea, Vick says he's sorry for his actions
Judge sets December 10 sentencing date for Vick
-
So... the Falcons manager is not cutting him right away. I'm honestly surprised by this. He says...
Quote: "We cannot tell you today that Michael is cut from the team. Cutting him may feel better emotionally for us and for many of our fans, but it's not in the long-term best interests of our franchise," Blank said.
-
... not in the long-term best interests of the franchise???!!! In my humble opinion that tells me that MONEY is more the issue here (to the Falcons Manager that is) then the reprehensible actions of what Vick did.
<sigh>
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
I was just watching CourtTV before I took the puppy for a walk and they said he was going to be suspended indefinitely and the prosecutors were asking for a 12-18 month prison term.
-
Re: Vick to be honored... *just shakes head*
Vick's a dick.
I wrote that not because it's meaningful to the thread, because the rhyme is funny.