My Shameless self playthough of Zelda 3: The Return of Gannon

[Anarchy_Balsac]

So I had to restart my game after level 8. But since I finished level 9 tonight, I am reviving this. The elevel 9 video will be on youtube tomorrow, in the meantime, here are the original 8 videos.

Okay, youtube embeds are NOT working and I have to go to work in a few, FUCK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZLSFlmV9X4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-VsafadHfw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SefKJlzRoWc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hwj9tJbEOJ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82KzmsM1U8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-K-WV0WrlQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3DBid-yui0

And level 8, which I forgot to post after youtube unblocked it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToeayZLyPt4

[James24]

Yeah, I remember playing this quest a while back. It seems you've updated it since. And yeah, I remember that level 1 was quite challenging and entertaining. But there were some major flaws that really put me off.

I remember I quit playing when I found level 2 was hidden behind some arbitrary rock. Quests should never ever hide dungeon entrances, key items or anything else that is needed to finish the quest behind arbitrary secrets. I found that one but if I know the designer does things like that then its likely I'll get stuck later on and I don't want to spend hours bombing arbitrary rocks to find something I need to win the game.

Also the player needs to grind quite a bit to get themselves the gear that's needed to play the game. Grinding is bad. Better idea for challenge quests would be to give the item for free when the player beats a combat challenge.

Zelda 3 is a typical type B quest. All the more proof of the type A/type B dichotomy. And were you able to get the type A players on board with it? I haven't seen any of them post support for your easy and super-easy modes. But I don't think you'll ever win them over since what they are looking for in quests is high quality graphics and type A dungeon gimmicks like you see in IoR.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Yeah, I remember playing this quest a while back. It seems you've updated it since. And yeah, I remember that level 1 was quite challenging and entertaining. But there were some major flaws that really put me off.

I remember I quit playing when I found level 2 was hidden behind some arbitrary rock. Quests should never ever hide dungeon entrances, key items or anything else that is needed to finish the quest behind arbitrary secrets. I found that one but if I know the designer does things like that then its likely I'll get stuck later on and I don't want to spend hours bombing arbitrary rocks to find something I need to win the game.


Kinda odd you would say that, given that Levels 7, 8, and 9, of the first quest and several of the second quest levels were hidden in such a manner. I seems trivial today, since the locations are all well known, but it should be noted that back then, it wasn't just a google search away.

I get what you are saying about the grinding, though, but I did put in 10 rupee drops, some secrets, and the Wealth Medals (one of which is the level 1 item) to mitigate it. The thing is that mitigating it too much would be the same is giving away shop items so a balance has to be struck somewhere. There's also the fact that it is a LONG game. So if I set shop prices TOO low, it becomes too easy to buy everything.

If I did these things wrong, I understand, but it's worth noting why things were done that way.

Edit - Okay, I feel asleep all day instead of uploading it, so Level 9 video will be up tomorrow instead.

[James24]

I think that Nintendo made a big mistake by having those arbitrary secrets in their first NES Zelda game. And it seems to me like they learned from that mistake and never repeated it again in any future Zelda games. But even then, there are mitigating circumstances. First, the NES quests aren't kaizo mode so the player is free to explore in comfort. In your game, not only do I have hordes of very powerful enemies to deal with but I also have search for your secrets. Second, in the original Zelda game, secrets were confined to bombs, candles and whistles. And you had a fixed size of overworld. But in Zelda Classic, there is no restriction on the item that can be used to trigger a secret and the overworld can theoretically be of infinite size.

Think about all the times you've played quests. Don't you hate getting stuck and then having to search for the answer online or ask the creator of the quest? The best quests I've played can be played without any player/developer interaction. There should not even be a help section in the forums - that's how good they are!

The other thing about grinding is that it ruins the difficulty balance of your game. If someone grinds too long then they can artificially make your dungeon much, much easier than you had intended. Similarly, if someone doesn't grind then they'll be playing a dungeon much harder than you had intended. I think that before you enter a dungeon there should be a "standard" set of equipment. Items that you've tested the dungeon with and know that this is the game balance that you had intended the player to play on.

I'm not saying your design is right/wrong or good/bad. Its just my personal perspective on what really puts me off when I play custom ZC quests that's all.

[ZoriaRPG]

I think that Nintendo made a big mistake by having those arbitrary secrets in their first NES Zelda game. And it seems to me like they learned from that mistake and never repeated it again in any future Zelda games. But even then, there are mitigating circumstances. First, the NES quests aren't kaizo mode so the player is free to explore in comfort. In your game, not only do I have hordes of very powerful enemies to deal with but I also have search for your secrets. Second, in the original Zelda game, secrets were confined to bombs, candles and whistles. And you had a fixed size of overworld. But in Zelda Classic, there is no restriction on the item that can be used to trigger a secret and the overworld can theoretically be of infinite size.


This was pretty standard, back in the day. Most games were loaded with secrets--this is how they endured. They forced the player to repeatedly play the game, until they mastered it, finding all of the hidden goodies.



Think about all the times you've played quests. Don't you hate getting stuck and then having to search for the answer online or ask the creator of the quest? The best quests I've played can be played without any player/developer interaction. There should not even be a help section in the forums - that's how good they are!

The other thing about grinding is that it ruins the difficulty balance of your game. If someone grinds too long then they can artificially make your dungeon much, much easier than you had intended. Similarly, if someone doesn't grind then they'll be playing a dungeon much harder than you had intended. I think that before you enter a dungeon there should be a "standard" set of equipment. Items that you've tested the dungeon with and know that this is the game balance that you had intended the player to play on.


I don't see anything wrong with allowing the player to set their own pace. This is often an ideal solution, IMO: Let people who want to challenge themselves, do that.

This is why I don't mind having absurdly OP items, and absurdly OP enemies. They're ultimately optional.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Game Balance is only ruined by grinding if you give too many powerful items via shops anyway, which I strongly avoid. Only the Blue Ring, and even then, only b/c the original Zelda did this.

And while you are entitled to not like quests for doing what the original Zelda did, bear in mind ZC is based on it. While you're correct that it was easier to explore at the beginning, two things to bear in mind:

-Death mountain was pretty much a death trap if you lacked the Blue Ring or at least a few extra hearts, so it wasn't 100% safe.
-Demo Quest, which came with the original Zelda Classics, had the EXACT problem you described, in fact it had all of your problems.

It is not wrong to not like this, but it should absolutley be kept in mind when critiquing people's quests. It should also be noted that Zelda 3 restricts it's secrets the same way Zelda 1 did, with the exception that obvious bomb points are opened with super bombs, and that diving exists. The cheat code rooms and secret level room don't follow that rule, but, if you think about it, that kinda makes sense.

Well ok, giant snail shaped rocks can be destroyed by the black boomerang, but that is likely to be discovered by accident anyway.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Anyhow, separate post, level 9, Gleeok will want to see THIS one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMIsM-T-TLU

[James24]

Grinding isn't only restricted to the blue ring, there's the bow and arrow too.

For someone who likes to have their quest resemble the original Zelda please bear in mind that the original Zelda didn't have kaizo difficulty in either the first or second quest. So if you make that glaring difference then why not make other changes? There are also custom enemies in the quest that aren't in the original Zelda. So if you are willing to make custom enemies then why not change other aspects of design?

You can't get into Death Mountain without the 8 pieces of the triforce. If you have the 8 pieces of the triforce, then presumably you would have beaten 8 bosses and got 8 more heart containers. And yeah, the demo quest was good right up to the point where you had to burn the statue which didn't shoot fireballs.

Finally, if you did restrict Zelda 3's secrets to those three items then you haven't communicated that anywhere to the player. How does the player know that you won't have a burning statue somewhere?

Zoria - I've played plenty of old Nintendo games, Zelda is the only game I know of that uses secrets to hide things essential to game completion without any hint of where it is. Care to name others?

[TheDarkOne]

I've played plenty of old Nintendo games, Zelda is the only game I know of that uses secrets to hide things essential to game completion without any hint of where it is. Care to name others?Zelda II: The Adventure Of Link.

Pretty much all the Zelda games do such things, it's what makes them so fun, finding all the secrets. For example, in LA I found purely by accident that taking exactly five seashells to Seashell Mansion gets you a free shell--I just happened to have five when I first stumbled upon the place.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

* stuff *

Okay, the original Zelda didn't have 15 levels either, this is just nitpicking.

And the reason I assume people know this is because it is generally, in Z1 style quests, accepted that these are the only type of secrets that will have no hints. Most quest builders don't do random secrets with no hints unless it's for game breaking items or cheat codes, the acception being the type that Zelda 1 used. So it wasn't unreasonable to assume the player wasn't paranoid, flailing about, bombing trees and burning lakes.

[ZoriaRPG]

Grinding isn't only restricted to the blue ring, there's the bow and arrow too.
[...]

Zoria - I've played plenty of old Nintendo games, Zelda is the only game I know of that uses secrets to hide things essential to game completion without any hint of where it is. Care to name others?


Covering 1985 through 1987:

Bokusuka Wars
Bubble Bobble
Challenger
Dracula II: Norio no Fuuin (CV2)
Getsu Fuuma-den
Goonies II
Gun.Smoke
Higemaru Makaijima - Nanatsu no Shima Daibouken
Ikki
King Kong 2: Ikari no Megaton Punch
Majou Densetsu II: The Maze of Galious
Makaimura (Ghosts and Goblins)
Meikyuu Kumikyoku (Milon's Secret Castle)
Metroid
Section Z
Super Pitfall
Super Xevious
Tower of Druaga
Zelda no Densetsu
Zelda II

I may have missed some.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Quite a few actually, but the most extreme example would be Milon's Secret Castle. Guide Dang It is the ENTIRE GAME.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Level 10:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eji9EbIkr2c

[Dimentio]

One problem I've noticed is how un-zelda like your quest appears to be, especially in regards to Z1 and Z2. Using Z1 graphics also confuses me, as isn't this supposed to be a sequel to Z2? Why are you tossing out all the graphical advancements that game made and going back to the outline-less objects, un-animated overworld, et cetera?

Even though I consider LttP to be the *real* Z3 in every aspect, if we're talking about an NES Z1-Z2-styled Zelda 3, then IMO The Legend of Link (the romhack) is the only real contender for it. I mean there's also outlands, but honestly that's a bit garbage.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

One problem I've noticed is how un-zelda like your quest appears to be, especially in regards to Z1 and Z2. Using Z1 graphics also confuses me, as isn't this supposed to be a sequel to Z2? Why are you tossing out all the graphical advancements that game made and going back to the outline-less objects, un-animated overworld, et cetera?

Even though I consider LttP to be the *real* Z3 in every aspect, if we're talking about an NES Z1-Z2-styled Zelda 3, then IMO The Legend of Link (the romhack) is the only real contender for it. I mean there's also outlands, but honestly that's a bit garbage.

Look, I get it, you don't like it, you are entitled to that opinion. But for fuck's sake, it's a ZC quest, it's NOT going to be like Zelda 2. Lttp is NOT Zelda 3, it is set BEFORE Zelda 1.

Now fuck off and quit derailing my topic, it is here to showcase me playing through my quest, not for you to nitpick and bitch.

[ZoriaRPG]

The only thing that bothers me, is that I constantly confuse your posts about it, with Z3 (LTTP/Kamigami no Triforce); which is what you'll see with any google search for 'Zelda 3', and the most recognised title of the game.

Heceforth, I alt-title it, Zelda Tsugi no Shou: Damuzukashii Bpuken


「ガノンのさいらい」 'Ganon no Sairai' would be the literal translation of your title.
Pretty much, Revival of Ganon.

[James24]

Anarchy, the whole reason why there is nit-picking and bitching is precisely due to your playthrough. I wouldn't have remembered why I quit playing your quest in the first place if I hadn't seen your videos. People are just voicing what they think after having seen your playthrough that's all.


As for arbitrary secrets...

Zelda 2 had secrets which were essential to game completion? Are you serious? If I recall rightly, all palaces were in the open except 6. Palace 3 required a walk through the graveyard but there was a clear hint in Mido village about south of King's cross. Palace 6 required a flute to be blown at the right spot but there was a clear hint about triple eye rock. There was also a village which you needed to hammer a particular tree but there was a hint about people having fled from the deserted town.

There was also a hidden wall in palace 5 which was essential to finding the flute but once again there was a hint in one of the villages about a fake wall. I don't recall any secret that is necessary to its completion AND no hints AND requires arbitrary searching.

Bubble Bobble - its theoretically possible to do one level after another to reach 100.

Metroid - Ok yes this had some arbitrary secrets but anything which dealt damage can trigger them which made it far easier to search. You'll also note that in later Metroid titles, there was a tool that assisted with secret searching which means that Nintendo acknowledged that this could have been improved upon - just like the lens of truth.

Ghosts and Goblins - one of the hardest games ever but I don't recall any secrets in it that are necessary for completion.

I haven't played all the other games on your list but if I were to name all the games I've played that don't have secrets I'm pretty sure I'd generate a longer list than that. Secrets or no secrets there's also the big elephant in the room. Players might be willing to search and spend their time looking for Nintendo secrets because Nintendo is the official developer and a game from them is really rare. But they won't spend their time looking for fan-made secrets because, well, there are many, many
fan-made Zelda quests. If you don't like a particular fan-made quest you just move on to the next.

[Dimentio]

Lttp is NOT Zelda 3

Neither is your quest xD

It's calling itself Zelda 3, yet uses inferior graphics to Zelda 2? No excuse, especially when high quality NES-esque tilesets exist in ZC. Let's also be honest, the dungeons seem to play nothing like the dungeons from Z1 and Z2. Honestly, what it seems you did is take your regular, generic ZC quest, fill it up with random enemy spam, and call it Zelda 3 to get some attention. It's not clever like LoH or Armageddon Quest, it's just a bunch of bullshit spammed without any thought or reason, and both of those quests actually *tried* to look better than your average ZC quest.

Maybe I'm just a type A player? I liked Armageddon Quest slightly more than Liberation due to the exploration and non-linearity of Armageddon's world, so maybe?

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Yeah, cus Megaman 9 and 10 never happened.

ENOGUH of this, if you don't like my quest, you are entitled to that opinion, even start a new topic about it and I may even engage you in a civil debate, but I'm DONE seeing a playthrough topic derailed by nitpicks and philosophical "well because X, you should have Y". If you want to know why I did things a certain why or why I didn't, great, I'll discuss that IN ANOTHER TOPIC, not here.

[James24]

Careful Dimentio, you are starting to sound more and more like a type A player with your focus on graphics. To be honest, it would make very little difference to me if Armageddon used the original NES tileset. And if OUCH! had gone for a very small overworld with almost no exploration needed that would be fine with me too. Only type A players are affected by things like that and if you're not going to try and woo them over then why bother? You know how much quest-making time it saves by having just a small overworld like LoH:IE??

I only used the updated tilesets in LoH and LoH:IE because they were very easy to obtain and for this small investment I got a quest that looks much, much better. As a type B player, even I must admit that DoR tilesets beat the original NES tilesets hands-down. The type A players certainly have their graphics, looks and appearances all figured out.

Lastly Anarchy, the criticisms that I'm making won't take very long to implement if you choose to make them - and these criticisms are coming from a type B player. The entrance to fortress 2 can be simply an open cave instead of a hidden one. The grinding can be replaced by making those items for free in exchange for winning a very challenging fight. You can grind if you're type A but if you're one of us type B players you can fight this very difficult challenge and win it for free... For a very small investment you'd be opening up your quest to a lot of type B players who I'm sure feel the same way as I do.

I'm not asking you to change the difficulty. That would take too long and I'd be asking you to do a job which you had no satisfaction with in the end. Plus, the difficulty of your first dungeon is pretty good and doesn't need to change. Just fix the small things which don't take too long and I'm pretty sure that this will be a good type B quest.

[Dimentio]

Careful Dimentio, you are starting to sound more and more like a type A player with your focus on graphics. To be honest, it would make very little difference to me if Armageddon used the original NES tileset. And if OUCH! had gone for a very small overworld with almost no exploration needed that would be fine with me too. Only type A players are affected by things like that and if you're not going to try and woo them over then why bother? You know how much quest-making time it saves by having just a small overworld like LoH:IE??

No, don't get m wrong, I love the classic tileset when it's used well. The classic tile has a charm when used in modern-day quests that just brings a certain giddiness to me.

The problem is this quest is calling itself Zelda 3, yet makes 0 improvements over it's two predecessors. There are romhacks and even quests out here more fitting of the title of "Zelda 3 if LttP isn't Zelda 3". Link and Zelda, for example, while it is incredibly easy, felt more like Zelda 3 than whatever this... abomination is. This quest has everything a terrible quest needs: random pseudokaizo enemy placement (pseudokaizo, because Kaizo implies clever enemy placement for difficulty, this just spams everything + the kitchen sink). Zelda 1 and 2 weren't kaizo. They were unforgiving, yes, but once you figured them out they weren't unfair. This quest just feels like the creator played Zelda 2 and sucked at it, and decided "since Nintendo made a bullshit game, I'mma make one too!" (protip: they made a wonderful but underappreciated game).

Unrelated James, but you're a fan of the first Zelda and it's difficulty, yes? You should try out a collab 1st quest remake I'm making with FireSeraphim called Hyrule Fantasy. It tries to follow the spirit of Zelda 1's difficulty and can be pretty brutal, *especially* once you reach the infamous level 6 >: D
You can find a beta containing the first 6 dungeons on Pure in the 2017 expo if you wish to try it.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

The problem is this quest is calling itself Zelda 3, yet makes 0 improvements over it's two predecessors. There are romhacks and even quests out here more fitting of the title of "Zelda 3 if LttP isn't Zelda 3". Link and Zelda, for example, while it is incredibly easy, felt more like Zelda 3 than whatever this... abomination is. This quest has everything a terrible quest needs: random pseudokaizo enemy placement (pseudokaizo, because Kaizo implies clever enemy placement for difficulty, this just spams everything + the kitchen sink). Zelda 1 and 2 weren't kaizo. They were unforgiving, yes, but once you figured them out they weren't unfair. This quest just feels like the creator played Zelda 2 and sucked at it, and decided "since Nintendo made a bullshit game, I'mma make one too!" (protip: they made a wonderful but underappreciated game).

Firstly:

-WindWaker/BotW/Handhelds

All "sequels" by your twisted definition, yet steps backward graphically. There were pragmatic reasons for this, yes, my Z3 quest had one as well, in that someone who's going to make a dumbshit BigAl style criticism


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqanglNR8aU&t=117s

(ie. "I likes me 8-bit retro graphics, but like, update them, because ummm, BECAUSE")

Is not worth my time satisfying. Secondly:

-Zelda 2 was NOT hard

I know you are deliberately being thick here, but no one who is old enough to remember that era would find Zelda 2 a challenge. It is primarily infamous for its difficulty because it was harder than Z1, which isn't saying much, and because of newer generations of gamers going back to play it. If I was REALLY that unskilled, I could NEVER pull off something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we70vbNlB-w

You seem to be upset my quest kicked your ass. Or maybe you have a grudge against me because of some old drama that I've made my peace with everyone else about? Either way, it seems you have nothing constructive to say.

[Chris Miller]

Okay, Dimentio and James24, let's bring things back on topic. If you would care to debate the finer points of quest design, make a separate topic for it. This thread is for Anarchy_Balsac's LP.

[Dimentio]

Whoa, that's a great fight against that gohma. Whoever made that fight must have a real poor sense of design, but I'm glad you managed to beat that really bullshit fight. Speaking of which, nice void dungeon, like the splitting darknuts, nice touch.

[James24]

I fail to see how we're not on topic Chris, this topic is about Anarchy's videos, I watched his videos and I am saying what I think of those videos. I know things are getting a bit heated and I wish it wouldn't be this way - but that's how it is with challenge quests. They always cause conflicts.

Dimentio, I really have to disagree with you on this one. The name of a quest matters very little - its the contents that matter. And as for 0 improvements, that's 0 improvements in your view. I think the kaizo difficulty is a huge improvement. The balance for level 1 is perfect for a player who likes very hard difficulty. There are other things that hold the quest back though and they aren't related to difficulty - arbitrary secrets and grinding. But if Anarchy wished to open up his quest it wouldn't be a big deal to fix.

And as for the collaborative effort - if I think it has the beginnings of a great type B quest then I'll be happy to help.

[Chris Miller]

I fail to see how we're not on topic Chris, this topic is about Anarchy's videos, I watched his videos and I am saying what I think of those videos. I know things are getting a bit heated and I wish it wouldn't be this way - but that's how it is with challenge quests. They always cause conflicts.


Once again, if you wish to debate the finer points of quest design(as you immediately resumed doing in the next quote), take it to another thread.



Dimentio, I really have to disagree with you on this one. The name of a quest matters very little - its the contents that matter. And as for 0 improvements, that's 0 improvements in your view. I think the kaizo difficulty is a huge improvement. The balance for level 1 is perfect for a player who likes very hard difficulty. There are other things that hold the quest back though and they aren't related to difficulty - arbitrary secrets and grinding. But if Anarchy wished to open up his quest it wouldn't be a big deal to fix.

And as for the collaborative effort - if I think it has the beginnings of a great type B quest then I'll be happy to help.



Taking it elsewhere would make me happy. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll just stand over here, being happy.

[ZoriaRPG]

Firstly:

-WindWaker/BotW/Handhelds

All "sequels" by your twisted definition, yet steps backward graphically. There were pragmatic reasons for this, yes, my Z3 quest had one as well, in that someone who's going to make a dumbshit BigAl style criticism


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqanglNR8aU&t=117s

(ie. "I likes me 8-bit retro graphics, but like, update them, because ummm, BECAUSE")

Is not worth my time satisfying. Secondly:

-Zelda 2 was NOT hard

I know you are deliberately being thick here, but no one who is old enough to remember that era would find Zelda 2 a challenge. It is primarily infamous for its difficulty because it was harder than Z1, which isn't saying much, and because of newer generations of gamers going back to play it. If I was REALLY that unskilled, I could NEVER pull off something like this:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we70vbNlB-w

You seem to be upset my quest kicked your ass. Or maybe you have a grudge against me because of some old drama that I've made my peace with everyone else about? Either way, it seems you have nothing constructive to say.

That was interesting. By 'one hit', do you mean that even with the Black Ring and all of those hearts, it'll one-shot Link?

120 arrows used. I didn't track how many hit true. How many did that Gohma take?

Anyway, that was fun. I might try it some day, when I have time to play quests.

I'll probably watch the full LP, when you complete it.

P.S. Please post alink to the playlist.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

That was interesting. By 'one hit', do you mean that even with the Black Ring and all of those hearts, it'll one-shot Link?

120 arrows used. I didn't track how many hit true. How many did that Gohma take?

Anyway, that was fun. I might try it some day, when I have time to play quests.

I'll probably watch the full LP, when you complete it.

P.S. Please post alink to the playlist.

Correct, as will the lava tiles, and it takes 24 hits, I'll post a link to a thread where a full playthrough was posted, but the boss segment is by far the most insteresting.

[Anarchy_Balsac]

That was interesting. By 'one hit', do you mean that even with the Black Ring and all of those hearts, it'll one-shot Link?

120 arrows used. I didn't track how many hit true. How many did that Gohma take?

Anyway, that was fun. I might try it some day, when I have time to play quests.

I'll probably watch the full LP, when you complete it.

P.S. Please post alink to the playlist.

Couldn't find the topic, but here's the playlist:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=das9piLprrc&list=PLVWfRf-9oLjefEeSu6MvndQQEp6v47bym

Anyway, Level 11:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOkK8g7XFS8

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Level 12 - Black Ring Secured


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7OpMv_v5tc

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Sorry, got lazy, Level 13


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-cjzb2HVtQ

[Dimentio]

Unrelated, but you may want to update your sig. The links aren't working any more for some reason. :(

[Anarchy_Balsac]

......No.

[Chris Miller]

You two, take your dork fight to PMs, or duel with Nerf pistols at dawn. kthx

[Anarchy_Balsac]

Fair enough, that was pretty mean spirited of me.

[James24]

Where's the video of level 14? I quite enjoy watching your videos even though I didn't play your quest. Or is this playthrough dead - just like your quest links?

[Anarchy_Balsac]

A virgin for life with a plainly visible hairline, living in his parents' basement killed it :(

I don't have time to deal with obsessed cyberstalkers who's sorry lives leave them with nothing better to do then refresh and downrate my shit all day.

[Shane]

A virgin for life with a plainly visible hairline, living in his parents' basement killed it :(

I don't have time to deal with obsessed cyberstalkers who's sorry lives leave them with nothing better to do then refresh and downrate my shit all day.With comments like these, it sounds like you might be a little obsessed too don't you think? :eek-new:

I'd say instead of being obsessed over the situation you instead focus on your quests and let's plays and don't let them take a backseat because someone has a disagreeable opinion.

[Dimentio]

A virgin for life with a plainly visible hairline, living in his parents' basement [...] I don't have time to deal with obsessed cyberstalkers who's sorry lives leave them with nothing better to do then refresh and downrate my shit all day.

I feel sorry for you :(

Having such low self esteem to describe yourself as a virgin isn't healthy. Maybe if you saw a psychiatrist, maybe you wouldn't be stalking and downrating everything I'm listed as author of 0 stars for no reason :(

[James24]

This is precisely the reason why you need to focus on motivation before you make any quest. Why are you making your quest and who do you intend to please? If its anyone besides yourself then you need to be very clear why they should be appeased potentially at the cost of your own enjoyment. Personally, I only make quests to please myself and I don't listen to anyone and what they're saying especially if what they're saying is going to destroy my own enjoyment. I would not have changed one bit about LoH or LoH:IE even if everyone in the ZC community rated my quest 0 stars and I have no regrets. This is James's masterpiece and I love it - and that's all that matters.

If you aim to appease the type A players then you need to play by their rules. No challenges, focus on lovely graphics, lots of puzzles, personally highly popular, no arbitrary secrets, no grinding. The list goes on. Bottom line is that you'll end up making a quest that they enjoy and that you'll hate at the end. And for what? A couple of nice ratings, popularity, fame and them talking nice about you? I can guarantee you that no type A player would ever reciprocate and change their quest to appease you in return though. Cheap buff is the best you'll get.

So if you're not going to be bothered appeasing type A then let them talk all they like and ignore them. Your target audience, potentially type B players, will understand your dilemma and know who to disregard when looking at ratings. Anyway, its sad to see it end like this.

[Chris Miller]

Okay! Tell ya what I'm gonna do, fellas. I've reinstated General Bitching (http://www.armageddongames.net/forumdisplay.php?128-General-Bitching) for a period of one week.


You may air all your grievances there for our collective amusement, to bring activity to the board, and to keep it out of ZC Quest Discussion. If, after the week is up, and General Bitching is no longer in operation, all grievances shall be considered null and void.

[NewJourneysFire]

Lttp is NOT Zelda 3, it is set BEFORE Zelda 1.

That reminds me, I should try playing Zelda 1 again. It's called Skyward Sword, right?

[Anarchy_Balsac]

With comments like these, it sounds like you might be a little obsessed too don't you think? :eek-new:

I'd say instead of being obsessed over the situation you instead focus on your quests and let's plays and don't let them take a backseat because someone has a disagreeable opinion.

Problem is it directs traffic away. It's all good though, his world class meltdown today brings me more joy than a fanbase ever could.


That reminds me, I should try playing Zelda 1 again. It's called Skyward Sword, right?

That or Zelda -8. It's the reason I'd never even try Skyward Sword, I'm not a fan of prequelitis.


This is precisely the reason why you need to focus on motivation before you make any quest. Why are you making your quest and who do you intend to please? If its anyone besides yourself then you need to be very clear why they should be appeased potentially at the cost of your own enjoyment. Personally, I only make quests to please myself and I don't listen to anyone and what they're saying especially if what they're saying is going to destroy my own enjoyment. I would not have changed one bit about LoH or LoH:IE even if everyone in the ZC community rated my quest 0 stars and I have no regrets. This is James's masterpiece and I love it - and that's all that matters.

If you aim to appease the type A players then you need to play by their rules. No challenges, focus on lovely graphics, lots of puzzles, personally highly popular, no arbitrary secrets, no grinding. The list goes on. Bottom line is that you'll end up making a quest that they enjoy and that you'll hate at the end. And for what? A couple of nice ratings, popularity, fame and them talking nice about you? I can guarantee you that no type A player would ever reciprocate and change their quest to appease you in return though. Cheap buff is the best you'll get.

So if you're not going to be bothered appeasing type A then let them talk all they like and ignore them. Your target audience, potentially type B players, will understand your dilemma and know who to disregard when looking at ratings. Anyway, its sad to see it end like this.

Oh I'll finish the Let's Play and Z4, but due to my copyright strike, it'll have to wait 3 months for the LP (becuse the Level 14 video will be over 15 minutes) and I'm taking my time with Z4, at least for now.

[Dimentio]

Oh I'll finish the Let's Play and Z4, but due to my copyright strike, it'll have to wait 3 months for the LP (becuse the Level 14 video will be over 15 minutes) and I'm taking my time with Z4, at least for now.

Hey dipshit, you wouldn't have those copyright strikes if you didn't repost videos made by my friend under a more insulting name.

[Chris Miller]

Last warning. Take it out of ZC Discussion.