Suicide by cop

[Gleeok]

Police shoot a guy nine times at close range and then handcuff him after he's dead. What did he do you ask? He stole two cans of soda, set them on the sidewalk, and then started pacing around them. Wow. Such normal. Very Doge.

Police report says that the man approached within three to four feet of the officer, holding a knife in hand with intent to strike--using an overhand motion. Which of course is bs thanks to some guy with a cell phone camera:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-P54MZVxMU&bpctr=1408773977


[EDIT] If the above link doesn't work properly, this seems to work:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Powell+Shooting+%28Cell+Phone +Camera%29&search_sort=video_view_count

[Tim]

Many cop brutalities are coming out mainstream all at once. Someone was gunned down for cosplaying as Mugen... the cops said he approached them swinging his fake katana. The autopsy shows being shot in the back.

[rock_nog]

Unfortunately, he did walk up on the police, even if it was a calm walk and he was unarmed, so they can still justify it in the end. I don't know why they had to throw in that crap about having a knife, though. And even though in the end the police will be justified, I think it's friggin' pathetic that they couldn't handle that situation without their guns. I just... I feel like I could've handled the situation more professionally, and my only experience working in any capacity as an authority figure has been as a teaching assistant. It just baffles me how quick police are to use physical violence and weapons to resolve a situation. Not saying it's never called for, but I guarantee 99% of the situations they deal with can be handled by simply talking the person down. I really get the feeling, though, that people who go into police work aren't interested in talking people down, they're just interested in establishing their authority.

[Dechipher]

Do we have any cops here? Would be cool to get their perspective.

[King Aquamentus]

Do we have any cops here? Would be cool to get their perspective.

No but we do have people in the Greater Saint Louis area.

[SUCCESSOR]

Can I just say that people who hold their phone like that when recording video deserve to be shot?

[CJC]

At the risk of being unpopular I'm going to defend the police.


Working as a police officer (or in the military) and wearing a uniform paints a huge target on your back. When on duty, everybody is trying to kill you. The moment you let your guard down you will get hurt. Talking down an agitated criminal is not the patrol cop's job; if the police tell you to put your hands up and get on the ground you do it and sort out the details in court.

Also important to note is that being unarmed does NOT mean you are not dangerous. Anyone can get a good hit in and knock an officer to the ground. Then it's simply a matter of taking the officer's gun and firing--dead. Even if the attacker doesn't take the officer's gun, once the officer is on the ground he or she can be choked or beaten to death. This is a big problem; everyone assumes that being unarmed and being harmless are the same thing when they are not.

Attempting to disarm a criminal using a firearm is foolish; anyone who uses guns knows that you have to consider what is behind what you are shooting (bystanders for one). Not only is an arm a smaller target, the target might still be able to use their weapon after being shot. Officers are trained to permanently disable threats, and that means deadly force.

Finally, proximity to an officer is a very important safety measure to consider. Someone armed with a knife can cover approximately 21 feet before a shooter has time to react.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tueller_Drill
Which means a criminal within 19 feet of you as the officer can kill you.
For the officer's report saying the victim was wielding a knife, it is very possible the officer believed the perp was armed. Can you tell the difference between a banana and a knife at 7 yards? Seriously, the guy steals two cans of soda and paces around them waiting for the police? That's intent.

[Saffith]

Working as a police officer (or in the military) and wearing a uniform paints a huge target on your back. When on duty, everybody is trying to kill you. The moment you let your guard down you will get hurt.
That isn't true. The data indicate that it's really not that dangerous.
http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/by-the-numbers-how-dangerous-is-it-to-be-a-cop

[CJC]

That article makes a poor assumption: it equates succumbing to danger with being in danger.
This is obviously not the case as the two do not have a biconditional relationship: You have to have been in danger to succumb to danger, but being in danger does not necessarily mean you will perish.

I'll elaborate with a metaphor. Consider a construction site. This is a relatively dangerous environment. If I were to wander into a construction site without purpose or training, the amount of peril I would experience would be quite high. However, if I wear a hardhat, avoid the heavy machinery, announce my presence to the foreman, and refrain from walking beneath cranes that are lifting heavy equipment, I can significantly reduce the amount of peril I am exposed to.
Have I eliminated the danger? No. Someone else wandering into the same situation without taking these precautions would face as much danger as I originally did. What I have achieved is a reduction in the ratio of danger to which I am exposed, and that reduction likewise reduces the probability that I will perish from the danger.

So the effort to avoid danger is what reduces the probability of succumbing to danger (IE perishing from an accident). The article you have referenced only considers the people who perish on the job, and that number is small because officers are specifically trained to reduce the amount of peril they will be exposed to.
Part of that training involves the ideas I described in the previous post. The reason police experience such a low ratio of on-the-job deaths is because they're good at their jobs, which means they are good at reducing the probability of perishing from the perils of those jobs.

The article also makes two other mistakes.
First, it does not take into account the number of officers that are permanently marred by injury on the job, to the point of being unable to continue their career.
Second, by using a national average it takes the mean of a bimodal distribution. The few cities that are very dangerous from a crime standpoint are 'softened' by the scores and scores of cities that are relatively low on high-risk criminal activity.


TL, DR: Dying from danger and being in danger are two different things. Just because a job has a low death ratio does not mean the job is safe.

[Saffith]

It's hard to imagine that police officers are routinely in mortal peril, yet so effective at mitigating it that they die at a rate comparable to the population at large. Construction workers, loggers, and power line workers, among many others, die at much higher rates, and the dangers they face don't include hostile, intelligent beings armed with lethal weapons.

Anyway, I'll just link you to the author's response. http://blog.skepticallibertarian.com/2014/08/20/by-the-numbers-police-militarization-and-the-other-dangers-of-being-a-cop/

[CJC]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this topic: there is likely sufficient evidence for a lively debate on both sides but I am not enthusiastic enough about the matter to continue beyond this point. As such, I have prepared one final rebuttal... but not with the intention to score the last word or to ignite further argument. I am simply attempting to explain the reasoning I utilize when defining the role that law enforcement plays in my life.
If you care to read it, it is contained in the spoiler below.

-=SPOILER=-

Thank you for taking the time to read. I know you may not agree with some of the logic that I applied, and that is perfectly okay. Just exercising my competency with debate.

[anikom]

I like the policeman he is cool guy.

[COCKBLAZER]

and he doesnt afraid of anything
except my mighty cock

[Shane]

I like the policeman he is cool guy.Agreed he is cool dude.

[Dechipher]

I...don't even know what has happened to this thread...

[SUCCESSOR]

Lets keep the topics a little less spammy.

I am kind of in between CJC and Saffith. Cops are generally better equipt and better trained than the average person who puts them in mortal peril. I would expect cops to have a high mortality rate. If they did there would be something seriously wrong. You can't equate death to risk. You have to factor in injury, stress, trauma, etc. While I agree cops should be careful about using deadly force and it is often unjustified, I fully support cops shooting anyone who charges at them with a weapon. These cops now have a mans life on their minds because he was too much of a pussy to check out on his own.