Emulator Legality...

[egug19]

Hey guys, this is my first post and i apologize if a similar thread already exists, or if this is the wrong place. :sick:

Basically im just trying to find out if Nintendo emulators, like project 64 for example, and the games associated with them
are illegal to download. And most importantly, if they are illegal, what is the likelihood that one would get caught/fined (or worse)
for downloading said software. i cant seem to find any decent amount of info on this anywhere.

i would like to have Ocarina of Time and Shadowgate 64 among many others on my computer in case my n64's ever die off
completely (yes, i have backups).

Any help would be appreciated :heartsmile:

[SUCCESSOR]

it's probably illegal. Does it matter? Not really. Speeding is illegal. Jay walking is illegal. The difference here is no one ever got a fine or arrested for playing ROMs/Game Backups(also it's not a public safety issue). Distributing them is a different matter. I say download and play all the games you want. If you download new blockbuster titles don't blame me if your ISP sends you a letter threatening to shut you off. But, no one is ever going to care if you download some Super Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time off a ROM siite.

I guess I should go ahead and mention the rules of this site. You may discuss Roms and Backups all you like but you may not request ROMs/Backups or provide links to them.

[Aliem]

Emulators, so long as they use original code, are perfectly legal. However, ROMs are not. No matter what. People often say "well it's okay if you own the game" but that's not really true under copyright law. Same goes for BIOS files required to start some emulators (ePSXe comes to mind), which is why they are not bundled with an emulator.

An emulator is software that mimics -- or emulates -- the original hardware. Most are far from perfect, and the good ones are often really slow, since it's code mimicing what real hardware did. Whatever BSNES evolved into when Byuu decided to make it into a pretty much every system emulator is one of the best, at least for SNES games.

But, as SUCCESSOR mentioned, linking to ROMs isn't really all that cool around most forums. Though I don't think you're at risk for your Nintendo 64 dying. Nintendo hardware is generally pretty long-lasting. My top-loading NES and gameboy still work perfectly well.

So, to summarize, emulators aren't illegal, ROMs are.

[rock_nog]

For me, the issue is not whether or not it's illegal, but whether or not it's immoral, which are two different things. Copyright law is a good and important thing, designed to ensure that creators of new content are rewarded for their work. However, I'm not gonna get all bent out of shape over it regarding a 30-year-old game, for instance. Especially when you can't even buy a game "new." Yeah, you could maybe argue downloading Super Mario Bros. cuts into Virtual Console sales, but when you're talking a game like, I dunno, STRIFE, no one's even got the right to sell that game firsthand, as far as I'm aware, so you're not hurting anyone's bottom line by downloading a copy. So I dunno, maybe it leads to murky waters, but I say let your own moral compass be your guide. Think about your actions, and decide for yourself, do you think you're hurting anyone? How would you feel to be on the other side? If you can go through that and come out on the other side still believing what you're doing is okay, then by all means, go ahead. But if you ever find yourself in a position where you feel you might be depriving game developers of money they earned and have every right to, you might want to reconsider.

[GrantGreif]

I agree with rock_nog. Generally, the way I decide is this; if the game or system is no longer being produced by the company that made it, it's fair game, since they would no longer profit if you bought it. This works out well in most cases since just about every system that emulates well without a controller adapter falls into this category.

[egug19]

Thanks Guys. And to be clear, i was not hinting that i wanted any links for any roms and was not planning on posting any.

[Brasel]

Nah, no one thought that. You're good.

I download ROMS, but I also buy games if they're rereleased. I've purchased games on the Virtual Console that I've previously played on emulation. I'd rather play the games as they were intended, but if some of those games are outrageously expensive and aren't easily played, like Little Samson, I'll download it and play it for free. Little Samson on the NES is several hundred bucks if you want a physical copy.

[SUCCESSOR]

Thanks Guys. And to be clear, i was not hinting that i wanted any links for any roms and was not planning on posting any.
Of course not. It's just the fact that you were asking about the legality suggests you might not know this site's rules regarding it. It was just a heads-up.

About the morality of it. Yes morally speaking copyright is very good to an extent. I personally believe in copyright in it's original intent, to protect the creator's work and allow him to make money off of it. The problem with the way we have it now is that it more protects the corporations who can grab up and hold such rights. Once copyrights lasted twenty or so years, then it was the artists lifetime, then the lifetime plus 50 years, then a hundred, then indefinite with renewals. This extensive period serve only to stifle the economic growth based on building off others ideas. It is a natural thing to borrow from others and even build upon their work. We see it in communities like this all the time. The purpose is to give the creative person a chance to make something out of their work before it is open for all. Not to hold on to something long past the life of the artist.

And on the topic of piracy. Copyright wasn't meant to protect from free riders. It was meant to protect from someone else making money or building business off of your IP. Using copyright laws and massive fines set up to discourage and punish the people who sell work that isn't their own to bankrupt and jail for years people who just watch some bootleg movies or play some backup games is abhorrent. While it may not be moral to the highest for someone like me to download a bunch of movies and games and enjoy them without paying for them. It is not stealing. I still go see movies in theaters. I still buy video games, and music. I don't do it a lot because of a limited disposable income but when there is something I really want I get it.

So while it may not be exactly moral for me to enjoy the abundance of things I can't afford, it isn't damaging. Markets rise and fall all the time. They may like to blame piracy but our economy is in the shitter and that is why people are less ready to purchase expensive games,music, and DVDs, more inclined to grab cheap digital films, song, casual games. Video rentals were dying out long before video piracy was so common place(still a minority) and red boxes were on ever corner. Businesses adapt and fall. I don't support laws that help corporations stay afloat because the market isn't as strong or has involved in a way they can't profit from. Capitalism is all about businesses failing. It makes room for new businesses and entrepreneurs. I am a pirate because I love capitalism. People made great music before the mega record companies. Indie films prove you don't need 200 million to make a great film.

But this is all moot to the topic of 20 to 30 year old games. No one is making a living off of these. By all means they should be fair use at this point. Instead 90% of them are rotting in a pool of forgotten untouchable IP that people look on with nostalgia instead of being ported to modern devices or updated. I encourage you to download them and emulate them! If not for emulators they would probably have been forgotten. In fact I encourage you to make an illegal fangame based on them.

[Chris Miller]

^agree
This is why I play rom hacks. There's a ton of stuff out there that you'd never get from Nintendo/Sega/Whatever. Some of them are asinine and hard beyond belief, but some are really innovative and far removed from the original games. Zelda II: Shadow of Night and Super Metroid Darkholme Hospital come to mind. If some people hadn't said "screw these stupid copyright laws" and put the roms out, not to mention the work involved in ripping them in the first place, we'd never have things like that. It's a prime example of how copyright laws can stifle creativity.

[GrantGreif]

Speaking of this, is it against site rules to link to a ROM hack? I don't really have any need to, but I've just wondered this for a while.

[Chris Miller]

No, there's no rule against it. You just can't link to the complete file, only the patch file or the maker's site.