Can a Commercial Game be sold if created with ZC?

[GypsyoftheShade]

That is, if all graphics/musics/etc. were replaced with 100% original work. And if so, does Armageddon Games require any share of profit? thanks

[Majora]

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10691609/what/1370658672964.gif
selling a game with zelda classic is like selling things you've made out of play-doh.


no one will buy it and you should feel bad.



Also, selling things made with ZC is prohibited and has been since day one.

[Glenn the Great]

That is, if all graphics/musics/etc. were replaced with 100% original work. And if so, does Armageddon Games require any share of profit? thanks

Disclaimer: I'm not speaking for AGN when I say this, and this is not the "official company line", but realistically speaking...

Yes! you can sell your quests. And no, Armageddon Games does not require any share of revenue or profit.

While it would certainly be best if your quest were 100% original work, whether or not you could sell a quest that uses assets created by Nintendo (or some other copyright holder) is a legal grey area.
The legality would hinge upon whether or not such a quest constitutes a fair-use derivative work.
Unfortunately there is no cut and dry metric to know whether your work is fair-use. That is something that would be determined by a judge on a case-by-case basis.


Also, selling things made with ZC is prohibited and has been since day one.

Hold yer horses, pardner! There is no precedent for this.
Users do not agree to any license when they download Zelda Classic. Quests created within it are just as much yours to do whatever you please with as is a drawing you created in MS-Paint.
I think both you and the OP will find this to be an interesting and relevant read: http://armageddongames.net/showthread.php?75543-ZC-licensing

[GypsyoftheShade]

It might be doughy but I feel good about wanting to make a game that people will like and even better about making one that people will WANT to pay for when it's said and done.

Are you trying to say that the Legend of Zelda can never by matched again? I beg to differ my dragon


I think both you and the OP will find this to be an interesting and relevant read: http://armageddongames.net/showthrea...3-ZC-licensing

I'll check this out. And trust me I would never try to sell Nintendo Zelda lol

[Gleeok]

Pretty much what Glenn said.

Zelda Classic itself could never be sold since it uses IP of Nintendo. However what third party users do with the program is their business. If you can replace the assets so you are not violating any copyrights, then it shouldn't be a problem except for the fact that we're now in a murky gray area as far as interface is concerned. ie; save files, logo, menu, all of which are pretty much a copy of the NES layout. I'm not sure about that part, though I doubt you could get under Nintendo's radar unless your game somehow made a lot of money.

[SUCCESSOR]

Selling a quest will be frowned upon by most and I don't know how many you will find to actually pay for it(I won't). That said there is nothing to stop you or anyone from trying to sell quests made with ZC. If you do manage to make a must play quest that is worth paying for I'll probably find a way to get it for free. :D

[Glenn the Great]

If you do manage to make a must play quest that is worth paying for I'll probably find a way to get it for free. :D

I'm sure GypsyoftheShade will remember this when he makes the quest that becomes the next Minecraft, is sitting on top of a pile of money and routinely gets invited to go with a friend to the Playboy Mansion.

There are a lot of amazing quests (like those from DarkFlameWolf) that are 100% free and are the result of years of experience with Zelda Classic, so I'm going to tell you that you're up against some stiff competition if you want to make a buck off your quests.
But in the end it all comes down to Marketing 101. If you can get your product in front of the right person's eyes, and your supply meets their demand, you'll make the sale and I won't begrudge you for it.

[Xyvol]

Any quests made by Zquest require the Zelda Classic program to run them. Unlike other makers which allows you to compile a game that runs separately from it's maker. You'd be charging for a quest that requires someone to come get the free player from AGN, and they may be wondering why you're charging when all the other quests are offered for free. The other option would be to include ZC in your download package, which puts you back in the legal issues of selling Nintendo's IP for profit.

[BFeely]

That is, if all graphics/musics/etc. were replaced with 100% original work. And if so, does Armageddon Games require any share of profit? thanks
I'd say wait until the open source release so you can remove the Nintendo graphics, sounds, and music that are integrated into the ZC distribution.

[GypsyoftheShade]

Selling a quest will be frowned upon by most and I don't know how many you will find to actually pay for it(I won't). That said there is nothing to stop you or anyone from trying to sell quests made with ZC. If you do manage to make a must play quest that is worth paying for I'll probably find a way to get it for free. :D

lol well I just have ambition thats all. Love for the game is why I'm here in the first place. I really just wanna make a good quest that people will like and talk about haha, but I do wish Nintendo would expand their horizons to the indie game makers like us.

Either way I'll try to make something fun, thanks for the replies.

[King Aquamentus]

And of course you'd need some form of copy protection

[Glenn the Great]

And of course you'd need some form of copy protection

I think his quests are going to be a tough enough sell already without adding a layer of DRM to them!

[Zim]

I used to sell people modded, "hacked," versions of Official Nintendo products.
Nintendo never had any qualms with this sort of thing going on. They would just make sure that they were not to be held liable
if something went wrong back then, once a 'third-party' controller is even in the mix, all bets are off on the quality of the product,
that's where Nintendo's strongpoint was back then.. Everyone else can do what they like with the hardware and software, but Nintendo
products were always great and, save for extreme abuse, and I do mean extreme, they would not break or faulter.. (Except for Harley's Humongous Adventure, that game froze on the anthill level on every copy of the game I got...)
Official Nintendo stuff is virtually infallible and of top-notch quality, any modification, tampering, or third party product induction into
the gameplay experience results in a termination of any quality seal of approval or warrantee.
I don't speak for AGN when I say this, but I can imagine that most of the staff wouldn't disagree:
Same goes for ZC.
If you get the source, or use .dat files, whatever means you modify this software, AGN or the ZC devs are not going to take any responsibility if your mod of the software you sell ends up crashing someone's computer.. Then again, that disclaimer is already in the program!

[MotleyCrueFan]

I would not recommend selling it because of copyright and also people may or may not believe the game is safe to install.


However I do know of a legal loophole in this, you can make an account on http://www.youcaring.com/ and also make a bank account and make a quest that teaches how to send donations. I myself am making a quest called The Adventures of Link 2 that will teach how to send donations to some people and this is legal because I am not charging people to play the game but rather in the game it teaches how to send donations and it is up to the person's, people's etc. own free will whether to send donations or not.

[King Aquamentus]

I think his quests are going to be a tough enough sell already without adding a layer of DRM to them!
precisely. On the other hand, there is *nothing* standing between a simple Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V command and some free copies.

[GypsyoftheShade]

If you get the source, or use .dat files, whatever means you modify this software, AGN or the ZC devs are not going to take any responsibility if your mod of the software you sell ends up crashing someone's computer.. Then again, that disclaimer is already in the program!

Yea most software disclaimers will say the same thing. I guess for the best answer I need to contact the head programmer of the project. Just so everyone knows, I do realize I would have to strip the program of all the original sprites used in the NES game, but what it really boils down is 2 points...

1) Is the coding that ZC uses, built off of an exact replication of the original NES Zelda Engine? In other words, is it a Mod of the NES Zelda with an scripted Editor built-in?
and
2) Even though it is free and open-sourced, does the owner allow the sale of 100% custom quests with a "stripped" version of ZC in his disclaimer.

and if the answer to both these are no, would the owner of ZC please edit his disclaimer to make the 2nd yes. :)





However I do know of a legal loophole in this, you can make an account on http://www.youcaring.com/ and also make a bank account and make a quest that teaches how to send donations. I myself am making a quest called The Adventures of Link 2 that will teach how to send donations to some people and this is legal because I am not charging people to play the game but rather in the game it teaches how to send donations and it is up to the person's, people's etc. own free will whether to send donations or not.

That's a pretty cool idea. If the owner doesn't like the idea of commercial quests with a stripped version of ZC I would totally go for this.




precisely. On the other hand, there is *nothing* standing between a simple Ctrl+C/Ctrl+V command and some free copies.


well it's true, most software nowadays can be hacked. But if Karma is true, I dont' wanna be the tampon.

[Glenn the Great]

1) Is the coding that ZC uses, built off of an exact replication of the original NES Zelda Engine? In other words, is it a Mod of the NES Zelda with an scripted Editor built-in?


Zelda Classic started off being coded as a built-from-scratch approximation of the NES Zelda Engine.
ZC has since evolved through the years to encompass many features that go beyond what was provisioned for in the NES Zelda Engine, even beyond what would have been capable on the NES hardware itself.
In other words, you'll find no original NES code anywhere within Zelda Classic.



2) Even though it is free and open-sourced, does the owner allow the sale of 100% custom quests with a "stripped" version of ZC in his disclaimer.


Zelda Classic has not been open-sourced. There are, however, plans in the works to open source it under the GPL in the near future.

Once that happens though, if you create a stripped down version of Zelda Classic to package with your quests, then you will be required to publicly release its source code.

Please refer to this post where Dark Dragon discusses the upcoming release of the source code: http://armageddongames.net/showthread.php?94972-ZC-changes-to-come-and-a-call-for-help&p=889846&viewfull=1#post889846

[GypsyoftheShade]

Zelda Classic started off being coded as a built-from-scratch approximation of the NES Zelda Engine.
ZC has since evolved through the years to encompass many features that go beyond what was provisioned for in the NES Zelda Engine, even beyond what would have been capable on the NES hardware itself.
In other words, you'll find no original NES code anywhere within Zelda Classic.

That's good to hear. It's a lot of clearance towards a legal stripped version IF the owners ever wanted to do something like this. Because personally, I think that an alternative version of what ZC "came out of", would be a great dungeon crawler game making engine for those among us that do have a lot of great creative direction and stories just waiting to be unleashed, but don't have the brand-name console development kits that cost so much more than the average individual can afford.




Zelda Classic has not been open-sourced. There are, however, plans in the works to open source it under the GPL in the near future.

sorry about that, maybe I'm thinking of Project Zelda Engine.



Once that happens though, if you create a stripped down version of Zelda Classic to package with your quests, then you will be required to publicly release its source code.
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Yes, but the stripped version of ZC (before adding the quest) would be the original source code, no? Maybe when releasing the stripped or rather the " birthday suit" version of what ZC came out of, an Indie could release the birthday suit version's Source Code, because editing the source code with the additional edited code of the quest would disqualify it from being SC? lol man, sorry if this is sounding like mumbo jumbo, but it's really not.

I'm not saying I don't approve of what ZC is, I think it's f'n great :)

It's just, it would give another option for those who have commercial desire too.