Favorite Zelda Game

[Brasel]

So I'm all kinds of Zelda'd out lately. I played through LoZ, LttP, and I'm currently playing Twilight Princess and Minish Cap. I haven't beaten Minish Cap yet. Last time I played it I borrowed it from someone, so I didn't get to finish it.

I'm also working on a new ZC quest. What little spare time I have these days is consumed by Zelda. I guess its a kind of longing to be a kid again.

So anyway, what's your favorite Zelda game? I know we've done these threads countless times, but why not again?

I would say mine is a toss up between A Link to the Past, The original LoZ, and Link's Awakening.

If I had to choose right now, I would go with Link's Awakening.
This game is amazing. It has everything a Zelda title should have: dungeons, puzzles, battles, item collection, and story. This is really the first Zelda game that has cut scenes and story sequences. Sure, A Link to the Past had a bit of it at the beginning of the game, and a little bit of story explanation after saving the maidens in the dark world, but LA really lifted Zelda NPC's and in game story to the next level.

Unfortunately, I have no GameBoy or GameBoy Color to play my Link's Awakening game on right now. I could emulate it, but I would rather have it in it's original form. I've been searching for a good deal on a GBA to play this on, but I'm too cheap to drop 20 bucks on one. Oh well.

[Beldaran]

but LA really lifted Zelda NPC's and in game story to the next level.

And yet still many levels below other games.

Zelda has never had a comprehensible story or time line that I could give a crap about. It's always been about addictive gameplay.

[Brasel]

Very true, but they make the world feel a bit more alive. I'm a little more compelled to play a game that has some sort of lively, immersive world than one that just feels dead. An example would be Fallout 3. I wanted to like that game, but the game world seemed dead to me. Yeah, it had some NPC's and a story that I've heard was pretty good, but I just couldn't get into it. Had Zelda games continued with no story elements or NPC's, I don't think the worlds within them would have been as enjoyable to play through.

[Anthus]

Link to the Past is my favorite Zelda game. It was the first one I really played a lot as a kid, and it was just awesome. It captured a true sense of exploration, and it kind of took me away from reality while I was staring at that screen. The game was also very atmospheric for its time with the stormy areas, and rain sfx you can hear inside houses. The game has always had a mysterious, and charming quality about it; one that I'll never be able to fully explain.

My second favorite is Ocarina of Time, followed by Majora's mask, then Wind Waker, then the First Zelda, then Twilight Princess. I never have been really able to get into the GB Zelda games, and I don't know why.

As for the story being incoherent, sure, it may be in between games, but the stories contained in each individual game are pretty good, imo. I think LttP, OoT, MM, and TP have the best stories so far.

[mrz84]

I haven't palyed any of the new zeldas past wind waker other than midish cap and that on ds game before spirit tracks(forgot the name)
so I'd have to say my fav zelda game is a tie between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. Because they are just too awesome to choose between.
And the both have masks, my fav game item in ANY zelda game. :kitty:

[Matteo]

Anthony,

Do you have either a SNES or a Gamecube? Because either a Super Gameboy (SNES) or Gameboy Player (GC) would solve your Links Awakening Problem.

In terms of favorite Zelda games:
1. Legend of Zelda - One of the best games of all time, and what made me want (and get) an NES.
2. Link to the Past - best gameplay
3. Ocarina of Time - best story and minigames
4. Links Awakening - best handheld Zelda
5. Oracle of Seasons/Oracle of Ages - Best puzzles/items
6. Minish Cap - Best Charm/last great handheld Zelda game
7. Majora's Mask - Most frustrating at times, great charm
8. Wind Waker - Best Graphics/Style, but not enough action, too much fetching.
9. Twilight Princess - Most bland (but great sound effects and enjoyable story)
10. Adventure of Link - Most Difficult, Some of the Best Music
11. Spirit Tracks - Garbage. (for a Zelda game)
12. Phantom Hourglass - Frustrating Garbage.

I have never played Four Swords Adventures nor the CDi games

[Brasel]

I actually have a Super GameBoy, but my SNES isn't working anymore. I'm pretty sure its just the power cord, so I could always try to get a new one of those.

[Anthus]

I have never played Four Swords Adventures nor the CDi games

I'd recommend FSA. It's not an entirely traditional Zelda, but it is an often forgotten 2D entry. I liked it quite a bit, but that was probably due to its graphical style being that of AlttP. I'd recommend reading about it, if you want to play it since there are some big changes to the flow of the game play that may immediately put off some Zelda fans. To name a few, you progress through the game by picking levels from a world map, and more become available as you advance the plot. You can only have one item at any given time, though each level has many items hidden about. You always start each stage with four heart containers, and there are four hidden in each stage. Items/ HCs do not carry over to the next stage. You must collect a certain number of "force gems" (equivalent of Rupees, which don't exist because there are no shops) to finish each level. If you can look past these changes, the level design, story, and atmosphere feel very much like how AlttP did.

PH is by far the worst in the series, hands down. Terrible, bland art direction. Uninspired design, and music, and gimmicky items that allowed you to tell the "right these direction from here, and go here RED dungeon" from the BLUE dungeon of the same sort. Spirit Tracks was way better, but it is still not as good as the other games. Calling it second worst in the series still places it high above 90% of the games out there today. The DS entries and especially PH are the only games I'd call bad in the series. Any other game is simply less favorable to me, but not a bad game. I'll make a list too, even though I already answered. This list is slightly different, but after thinking about what I like about each game, it is more accurate.

AlttP - Childhood memories and shit.
OoT - More of the same, but 3D.
MM - Unique Story.
TWW - Returns to the original Zelda by having a much more open "over world". Bitch all you want about it being bland, so was Zelda 1, and people loved it.
TP - Good Story. Decent Visuals, but at times, it looked a bit muddy. Great soundtrack.
Minish Cap = Zelda 1 - Zelda 1 was hard to place in the list. I like the game, but really, I think I like the concept more. Minish cap has some of the best 2D art direction. Dungeons were interesting spins on the typical Zelda elements as well.
Oracles = LA = Zelda 2 - Not bad games, but they're all just kinda "eh" in my book.
ST - Better then PH, but still not great.
A Piece of Shit
Everything Evil in the World
PH - Awful. Never even finished it completely.

I still can't figure out why I just can't get into the GB Zelda's. LA is good, but the Oracle games just never really interested me. I've tried to play through them many times, but I just get bored, or lose track of what I was doing,

[Darth Marsden]

Ocarina of Time, for some reason. I feel like Twilight Princess should be better, but I can't quite seem to connect with it in the same way. OoT came out when I was just getting into 3D games, and it really connected with me in a way few other games did. I've never really gotten into the 2D ones as much, with the exception of Minish Cap, which would probably be my second favourite.

[Beldaran]

A Link To The Past and the original Legend of Zelda games are the only two I've ever beaten. A Link To The Past is my favorite.

[DigiPro31279]

A Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time are the two that top the list of all time favorites. I haven't played the DS zelda games as of yet. The oracle Zelda games I played through Seasons and beat it then transferred my stuff over to Ages and I couldn't get through that one for the life of me. I quit all together. Would have loved to save Zelda from Ganon, but it was so hard to get through certain puzzles and my interest just waned away.

[AtmaWeapon]

I have lost the Zelda spark as of late and haven't picked up many of the games. I don't think I have a favorite; they all seem to fill some kind of niche. I think I'll just list them in the order I remember them; if I don't mention one I probably haven't played it.

The Good
The Legend of Zelda is the first and that makes it the gold standard. I like how big the world was, and the dungeons at least felt non-linear. I managed to make it to Ganon without the silver arrows once, but I think that's an argument for why the magic key was a bad idea as much as it is poor design (surely they could have made an old man that would bar the way or an enemy that could only be damaged by silver arrows?) There's not much to say because nostalgia's the main reason why I hold it in such high regard; almost any negative point I have about it is due to what I expect out of a modern game.

A Link to the Past was a great evolution of this formula. The first few dungeons were easy enough to be insulting, but I still tend to get confused in some of the later dungeons so it balances out. Heart pieces were introduced here, and I spent a lot of time hunting down each one. LttP established boss patterns and Hyrule lore that would be key components of future games. I suppose if I had to pick a favorite I'd pick this one, but my most recent playthroughs left me feeling kind of disappointed for some reason. Maybe I can elaborate after some thought.

Link's Awakening is an extraordinary example of a GB game and a worthy successor to LttP. There really weren't that many stellar GB games, and LA did a good job of making the GB worth the cash before Pokemon was released. I really liked the shield being an item; the only real downside is I probably spent 15% of any playthrough fiddling around in the subscreen. If only the GB had extra buttons to cycle the B button item! It somehow felt bigger than LttP for me, probably because it was harder to move around the world map.

I feel like Wind Waker is highly underrated due to its visual style. I loved the cel-shaded look, but more than that I loved how the game had more of that unexplainable "Zelda" feel to it than I felt OoT brought to the table. The sword combat was extraordinary in this game and I feel like it had some of the best enemies in the entire series. What few dungeons it had tended to be large and fun to explore. Unfortunately, it had too few dungeons and eventually devolved into a treasure hunt. The ocean was a great idea poorly executed; making it take several minutes to get from point A to B is bad enough but forcing the player to fight an infinite stream of uninteresting enemies while you're at it is pure torture. The series was very linear and even in the dungeons I like there's not really such a thing as a wrong turn. Boss fights were sufficiently large and epic, but a few of them were just rehashes of OoT bosses. Despite this, I feel that the visual style, musical style, and gameplay were strong enough to keep WW on my good list.

The Mediocre
Twilight Princess did a great job with setting a mood. This is the darkest, most mature Zelda so far; people die in it and overall the environments did a good job of making me feel that even if I saved Hyrule I couldn't reverse the damage that had been done. Motion controls ruined the game. The sword combat was several steps backwards from WW and the extra bow/boomerang precision afforded by the wiimote didn't make it worth it. I also feel like it's inexcusable that there was no voice acting in this game other than grunts; even budget games on the 360 went this far. This game's progression was straight as a laser; sequence breaking, if possible at all, would require cheating devices. I really enjoyed the boss fight where you had to ride that spinner thing, but other than that one I don't remember being particularly wowed by anything in the game.

The Bad
I didn't really like Ocarina of Time and I still don't think it's much better than LoZ itself. The storytelling was OK, but this was the era where 3D games weren't really very well-known to designers so there's lots of rough edges sticking out everywhere. Some of the boss fights were pretty memorable, but unfortunately it feels like Nintendo exhausted their ideas for boss combat in this game and most of their future games used variants. Until this game, Hyrule felt alive; every screen had some enemies, NPCs, or something to make you feel like Hyrule was a great place to live. OoT's Hyrule was just... empty. If you weren't in Kakariko or Castle Town, wandering around had the same lonely feel that Fallout 3 captured well. The few inhabitants of the overworld weren't interesting to fight; it was annoying to have to spend 15 seconds waiting to reflect enough rocks at a stupid Octorok and I didn't even bother with the godforsaken Peahats. This made sense in adult Link's Hyrule, but the barren, unpopulated Hyrule that child Link lived in just didn't seem worth saving. Twilight Princess had this quality too, but a major plot point is the notion that lots of people have been whisked to the Twilight Realm and are sort of half-dead so it can get away with it. OoT had no excuse. Also I ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE MAP DOES AND THAT A BLUE RUPEE IS 5 RUPEES. YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ME EVERY. TIME. I. GET. ONE.

Oracle of Ages is the only Zelda I've played of which I remember absolutely nothing. I remember being slightly peeved that you could only do everything and see everything if you had a friend with Oracle of Seasons. I had no friends with a GB, so my only choice would have been to buy the other game myself and link with myself. I bought Pokemon Yellow instead.

The first DS one was Phantom Hourglass? Boy that one was forgettable. It was easy enough I was insulted. It had *some* clever usage of the touchscreen but the use of blowing into the mic was gimmicky. All I remember about the dungeons was taking the time to painstakingly annotate the first map that looked like it might have stuff I needed to remember only to have the fairy flash back to the rooms when I entered the puzzle room. Why didn't they just let the fairy solve the puzzle for me then? The sea mechanic in this game was less annoying than in WW, but still too tedious for its own good.

The Ugly
Here's the misfits of the Zelda world.

The Adventure of Link is disappointing due to shoddy translation work and weird difficulty spikes. I played it for weeks and still can't reliably kill an Iron Knuckle without taking a lot of damage. Overall, I feel like this was an interesting game format and I'd like to see Nintendo re-release it with better dialog and checkpoints so you don't go back to the start when you die. Alternatively, I'd like to see a new game using this format. Yes, it was different from LoZ, but at this point there were 2 Zelda games so you can't really say it wasn't a "real" Zelda game. If you want to argue about "real" Zelda games, how about we talk OoT, which didn't even include the Zelda theme? It did a lot of things right, but made a few mistakes and I don't think it deserves to be with the "bad" games.

Majora's Mask was my favorite for a long time since it dared to be different. I liked the time/moon mechanic and really liked how the townspeople moved about based on a schedule. The dungeons were interesting (particluarly the last one you could rotate) and I remember the boss fight with the giant bull as being particularly fun. This was the first Zelda game that was relatively dark; 3 of the 4 forms you assume represent a hero that died and when you're wearing their mask people think you're the dead hero :( The Fierce Deity mask really broke the endgame but required a lot of work to get and was optional so it's all good. If this game had WW's swordplay I think I'd call it the best of the bunch. The only part I really hate is the deku swamp or wherever, and it's mostly because the overly green color palette reminds me of the Forest Temple from OoT, which I really hated for some reason.

My Fears for Skyward Sword
The transition to 3D wasn't very smooth for this franchise IMO. OoT introduced jumping puzzles, which were difficult because Link's jumping is very much context sensitive and you don't have the precise camera control that 3D platformers require. I wish they'd decide if they want an action/adventure or a platformer and just pick one. LA had jumping puzzles that worked because Roc's Feather effectively gave you a jump button.

Another gripe: block puzzles are fun when moving the blocks is relatively fast. If I can work out the entire solution in my head before I finish dragging the first block into place, it's taking too long to solve the puzzle. This is especially annoying when it's easy to screw up a move, like the "blocks on ice" puzzle that's suddenly showing up in every game.

I'd like to see Skyward Sword bring back a large, vibrant Hyrule where you encounter a myriad of enemies and NPCs when you're just wandering the overworld. I don't need instant warps like Dragon Quest, but if it's going to take me several minutes to get from here to there I'd like something interesting to do in the interim. I really want to see WW's parry system return; that led to some very fun fights that were almost like a rhythm mini-game. I want a traditional beat-8-dungeons-get-triforce-kill-Ganon game. I don't want to see jumping puzzles unless I've got a well-defined jump button with as much control as I'd expect out of a Mario title. And most of all, I'd like a check box to tell the game I know what a map does so I don't have to scroll through two pages of explanation each dungeon :mad:.

[Icey]

Atma, why is Majora's Mask in "the ugly" when you say it used to be your favorite of the bunch and, you don't say much negative about it, and you say it would be the best of the bunch if it had WW's gameplay? I'm a bit confused on the placement there...

I'll update with my own picks later, but I had to ask.

[King Link]

There is more than one favourite for me. Many of the games give me a sense of nostalgia. That alone is worth picking one up to play.
Ocarina of Time is my favourite. Certainly wasn't the very first time I played one of the games, but it was the title that pulled me into the series fully. A large, expansive world, for its time, great level design, great rewards, epic sequences, good music. Loved the game. Been playing it again recently as well.

EDIT:

I also feel like it's inexcusable that there was no voice acting in this game other than grunts; even budget games on the 360 went this far.

For myself, Atma, I must disagree with the voice acting. Every single time a new title comes out without any voice acting, everybody has their say. But honestly, who wants it? Many other titles now still refrain from voice acting (at least when it comes to the main character, which is what I myself am truly concerned about.) Voice acting for all other characters I am sure I could deal with, I would have no problem.

Yet giving Link a voice? Absolutely not. This is my character. I don't need to play the developers' idea of who Link is. He's already speaking and interacting in his own ways, as far as I am concerned, and I'm happy with it.

[Beldaran]

Nintendo fandom: Where a character with no back-story (or multiple, conflicting back-stories) who has never said one thing, ever, is viewed as well developed.

[AtmaWeapon]

Atma, why is Majora's Mask in "the ugly" when you say it used to be your favorite of the bunch and, you don't say much negative about it, and you say it would be the best of the bunch if it had WW's gameplay? I'm a bit confused on the placement there...

The "ugly" games aren't necessarily bad, but don't really fit with the style of the other games. AoL was more similar to Castlevania II, which itself is an ugly duckling in another franchise that can't really settle on some standard mechanics. MM was close, but the time-based gameplay and interaction with the characters in the world was more important than the main quest. Four dungeons. Four. Like DQ IX, you either beat it really quickly or you spend 90% of your time on sidequests. I still think it was a great game, but I'm curious if it would be more widely accepted if it had introduced a new hero instead of reusing Link.



Yet giving Link a voice? Absolutely not. This is my character. I don't need to play the developers' idea of who Link is. He's already speaking and interacting in his own ways, as far as I am concerned, and I'm happy with it.

I don't subscribe to this. I remember Miyamoto discussing how hard it was to find a voice for Mario and, likewise, Link, because he felt choosing the wrong voice somehow ruins your ability to relate to the character.

You know what ruins my ability to relate to the character? The silent protagonist. It's a horse that's been beaten so many times there's just a horse-shaped hole where it used to be. I cannot relate to a character that never says a word. Video games want to be an art form, like movies and books, right? Who is silent in movies? Jason Vorhees and Micheal Myers come to mind. Did Forrest Gump go through his life mute so that the viewer could relate to him? Did Benjamin Button mince his words? From Gone with the Wind to Die Hard, film is littered with protagonists that use their voice to add character. The Lord of the Rings would have been a boring damn series if Frodo and Bilbo had kept their mouths shut because J.R.R. Tolkein decided that people couldn't identify with him. Even in the Choose Your Own Adventure series my character spoke, so it's not like interactivity introduces some magic disbelief that can't be suspended when the hero speaks. I could go on and on through literature and film but I think you see my point. For centuries, authors have been able to get people to identify with a protagonist who speaks their mind. For decades, directors have made characters that the audience can identify with. Silent protagonist is the exception, not the rule, when it comes to creating a character you can identify with.

I can't even think of the defense of "NPCs should grunt" to attack, so I won't.

Here's what I know about Link. He wears white tights, and used to swap his sword hand and shield hand depending on which direction he faced. Then he decided he was left-handed. He's been a sea traveler. As a child he didn't wear tights. He was very uncomfortable around girls and would usually handle romance by running away. Somehow, as he aged from 10 to 17, he grew an earring and a pair of tights. He didn't grow an interest in women though; despite several falling at his feet he still barely acknowledged their presence. He catches fire easily, and doesn't digest as well as a wooden shield if Like-Likes are any kind of research tool. He has a bad habit of spazzing out and leaping off of cliffs when a platform is directly in front of him. If the platform is too close, he'll happily leap beyond it. What kind of character profile is this? In 22 years of playing Zelda games I don't know anything about what motivates this guy other than my hand up his rectum pulling his strings. That's not storytelling. It's lazy. Maybe I'm getting too grownup for Nintendo, but I'm kind of expecting more The Wizard of Oz out of what I play these days as opposed to Merrie Melodies.

[Beldaran]

I'm nominating this for the greatest and most honest post in the history of the Video Game Discussion forum.

Can we please stop pretending Zelda has a captivating story and characters? It's borderline down syndrome retarded kentucky fried rehashed recycled reheated crap that is fun to play sort of but not any more so much because I'm almost 30.

[Nicholas Steel]

Atma, it isn't what the protaginist says that is usually a problem, it is the type of voice and how it is said that matters. Without a voice people can use there imagination to fill in these gaps but with a voice your stuck with a predefined voice and particular ways things are said. There is a reason RPG's usually give the player a choice of voices for there character when making one.

[AtmaWeapon]

Yet Link has a voice, but is unable to speak in anything other than grunts, yells, and screams. You still haven't really made a compelling case for why all the side characters must be mute as well.

The most memorable characters I have played had either excellent voice work or excellent writing. Tales of Symphonia had an all-star cast with some pretty corny writing, but it still sparkled. Deadly Premonition had writing that was deliciously absurd, and the hypnotic voice of Francis York Morgan made the whole thing worth it. David Hayter makes Metal Gear Solid. Altair and Ezio were extraordinarily well-voiced. My position is if a game wants to establish a strong protagonist along with a world in which they live, it is vital that they have a voice and you're able to witness their interactions with other characters.

I'm not really sure that the RPG genre has settled on a silent protagonist. It's apparently been a staple of Dragon Quest, but in Final Fantasy the silent protagonist hasn't ever really made an appearance save for FF VII (note: I haven't played anything past IX, so I could be missing one.) Chrono sticks out as a notable silent protagonist from the Square stable, but from what I recall of the SNES RPG days it was very odd to have a main character with no dialog. I'm trying to think of other games I've played with silent protagonists and they are few and far between, save for the stereotypical "mysterious" character that tends to join up (Shadow from FF VI is an example.)

I'm not saying the silent protagonist doesn't have a place. In Fallout 3 your options weren't voiced, but you still got to choose from dialog trees more complicated than "yes" and "no". This was appropriate because that game focuses on how your actions shape the Capital Wasteland and some of your choices can permanently affect the landscape; the strong avatar link was required. BioShock has silent protagonists for a different reason: there's very few sane people left alive and most of the storytelling comes in the form of scenery and audio diaries. There's no need for dialog because in a sense the bulk of the story has already happened and you're just playing the closing chapter.

I don't think Zelda games tell their story in such a way that a silent Link adds to the experience. The plot is always "collect some macguffins, cash in a plot coupon, defeat a boss, win the prize." You don't shape the world like in Fallout 3; you move along a predefined path more like turning the pages of a novel. You don't hear the stories of those who failed before you as in BioShock (arguably MM is an exception); instead you trudge along on a mostly solo journey to do the job no one else can do. If you do a sidequest, the only change to Hyrule usually manifests in a "thank you" dialog when you talk with the person later. The NPCs are just set pieces; Link doesn't interact with them outside of redeeming random items for either plot advancement or item enhancement. Link himself is a hollow puppet: an unfeeling, unemotional shell that does nothing more than inact the will of the player.

Majora's Mask is the only game where it feels Link's actions honestly made a difference to the world: he helped 4 souls rest in peace, saved the land from destruction, and if you fulfill all the sidequests managed to help people find happiness in life, corrected illnesses, and reversed a curse that was preventing two people in love from living together. They pulled that off without dialog and that's great; for a game at the time it would have been difficult to add meaningful voice dialog anyway. But I don't think voice dialog would detract from the series at all. You can have a silent link, but I think it'd be great to hear the citizens of Hyrule do more than grunt at me until I turn in 15 tarantula testicles in return for a bigger bomb bag.

[Nicholas Steel]

I wouldn't mind it that much if they only subtitled what Link says while keeping him audibly mute.

[vegeta1215]

For those wondering how Link might sound if he talked, go play Metroid: Other M and tell me what you think about Samus talking. It's going change our view of her character forever. Then think about how Link might sound again, and whether we should give him a voice.

(I'm not saying Samus is terrible, despite what some say, but she sounds different than I imagined)

[AtmaWeapon]

Uhh... you do know Samus has had a voice previously? Jennifer Hale did the voicework in the Metroid Prime series. She was apparently replaced by Jessica Martin in Other M.

Maybe she sounds different than you imagined because rather than "imagining" her voice you're remembering the voice from the Prime series? It's possible you just don't like her voice, but it's hard to say your perception of her is forever tainted since you still have the other voice to go by. Maybe if Nintendo would quit subcontracting any franchise that's not Miyamoto's extra special baby you'd get some consistency.

Besides, Link already has a voice. Would it taint his shallow character by giving it some dialog too? Interestingly enough, Link's had a different voice actor in almost every game since the N64 (OoT and MM shared the same actor.)

[vegeta1215]

I wouldn't call the grunts and screams from Prime a "voice" for Samus per say, esp when Other M has so much dialog. Samus' voice itself doesn't bother me in Other M, but her delivery is monotone at times, and she shows a bigger range of emotion than we've seen before (and maybe different than we've come to expect) out of this supposed bad ass bounty hunter. I'm having a lot of fun with the game, but I know it's ruined the series for some "purists".

[MottZilla]

For those wondering how Link might sound if he talked, go play Metroid: Other M and tell me what you think about Samus talking. It's going change our view of her character forever. Then think about how Link might sound again, and whether we should give him a voice.

Hahahaha. This comment is just excellent. You make this sound like there will be a national vote on a critical issue of giving Link a voice.

Link is a terrible character if you like someone that has any depth. If he were real he would be one pathetic piece of shit. He has no personality other than being a mindless drone that runs around collecting things and doing what he's told. Link was a cool character back in the world of 1980s and early 90s video games. Where you just used your imagination or something to fill in the blanks. But I don't really care.

Infact this whole thread makes me somewhat sad. Why are so many of you so in love with Zelda? I just don't get it. Zelda was a sweet game on the NES sure. That's fun. They made some other cool Zelda games. Good games sure. But why is it that it seems like Zelda is 50% or more of what seems important to some of you? Just leave this as video games and I mean wtf is the deal with you guys. Nintendo is cool and all but why do people just curl up and suck the nintendo tit? There are other games. Fun games. Nintendo isn't the only one that made good games. I suppose the main reason I don't get it is because I couldn't care less about any Zelda games they shit out now.

I just hate pathetic fanboyism, if that's a word, if not it is now.

[vegeta1215]

C'mon Mott, have you forgotten where you are? lol. The days of me chiming in and explaining which is my favorite Zelda are long gone. I've done it too many times. But I had to jump in on the voice discussion having just played Metroid: Other M, which is causing a lot of controversy in that department. Yeah, I'm a Nintendo fan, but I recognize the faults in Nintendo's games and appreciate other company's games. There are plenty of other games I'd like to play on other systems, but I don't have the money to buy them all nor the time to play them. Growing up sucks...

After reading your comments Mottzilla about Link's voice, and after thinking about it some more, it wouldn't be so bad to give Link a voice. I mean, the Zelda cartoon was made over 20 years ago, and I never pictured THAT voice as Link's voice in any Zelda game made since. Plus like you said, there's not much to his character anyways, so it really wouldn't add much (or hurt much).

[Masamune]

FACT: Diddy Kong needs his own platformer.

[Beldaran]

Growing up sucks...


No it doesn't. You've just decided there are things you like more than video games and you devote time to them now. If you didn't think they were important, you'd still play tons of video games.

[vegeta1215]

No it doesn't. You've just decided there are things you like more than video games and you devote time to them now. If you didn't think they were important, you'd still play tons of video games.

True. But there are also more systems and WAY more quality games coming out these days.

How about this one? "Having bills to pay sucks" :D

[Matteo]

Calling Link a shallow character is like calling an abstract painting unrealistic. They simply don't match up nor matter to the source. Representation and art comes in many other forms than just presentation of a visual or theme or truth. As soon as story takes preference over gameplay and control, then the game becomes more like a movie or a book than a game. Art in videogames rests first and foremost in its control and gameplay, not in its thematic material, storylines, or even visuals. Yes, they add and create atmosphere, but the essence is the connection between user and software, and it is what is not in a game (what we as humans fill in with our actions) that is what attracts us and captivates us.

Remember, we are doing what the game does not do for itself, we are controlling it. That is the art of videogames, what is withheld from the automatic, and the given.

[Brasel]

Infact this whole thread makes me somewhat sad. Why are so many of you so in love with Zelda? I just don't get it. Zelda was a sweet game on the NES sure. That's fun. They made some other cool Zelda games. Good games sure. But why is it that it seems like Zelda is 50% or more of what seems important to some of you? Just leave this as video games and I mean wtf is the deal with you guys. Nintendo is cool and all but why do people just curl up and suck the nintendo tit? There are other games. Fun games. Nintendo isn't the only one that made good games. I suppose the main reason I don't get it is because I couldn't care less about any Zelda games they shit out now.

I just hate pathetic fanboyism, if that's a word, if not it is now.

I'm going to be honest. I was on a bit of a Zelda kick at the time I created this thread and my biggest point was to stir up conversation. I didn't expect it to go this way, but I'm pleased to see so many people participating.

I like Zelda games. I don't really care for anything else Nintendo puts out these days. I like the sword play fantasy type genre of stories. Zelda games do not have an incredible story that really stimulates thinking or anything else for that matter. They DO have addicting game play. I like little bits of story elements in my games. Back story is all I need to immerse myself in these worlds. Games like these get my creative juices flowing and let me interpret things how I want to. I love the mythos and backstory surrounding the older Zelda games. If I want a really great story with developed characters and plot twists, I'll watch a movie, a TV series, or read a book.

[AtmaWeapon]

Actually you know what? If they give Link just *one* line in a game, and it's the voice actor from the cartoon saying "Well excuuuuuuse me, Princess" or maybe some kind of chauvinist one-liner, I will take back everything I said and be satisfied with caveman Link forever.

RE: We control games not vice versa. I'm not buying it.

Twilight Princess was a fantastic achievement. It was able to mask the limitations it had to live within to support both GCN and Wii and the artists selected a visual style where diminished graphical capabilities *made sense*. Nothing looked wrong or out of place save for the characters/monsters that were supposed to look off. The music was very good but not too memorable. I've only played two games that made me feel as lonely as TP: Super Metroid and Fallout 3. High marks all around.

Until I get to the exploration aspect, which I would argue is part of the bread and butter of a good Zelda game. The plot is linear as a ruler. Sure, there's some plot twists but I could see the ending coming and it's just not exciting to find out that the bad guy was Ganon all along anymore. That worked great in WW but pulling the same trick twice in a row is kind of lame. Anyway, Hyrule was huge in TP but I was usually constrained to such a small area that I didn't bother with exploration. It was fun in OoT to just go places you weren't supposed to be; there were few physical barriers save for the entry to the water temple or Gerudo Valley. Incidentally, Gerudo Valley is the part I spent the least time in because by the time you get there you're pumped because you know the final confrontation is coming. Same in MM; the areas I explored the least were the areas that were obstructed from me for the longest time. TP didn't even have the courtesy to make me wonder what item I'd need to get past an obstacle; I distinctly remember going on an expedition and discovering that my way forward was blocked by a boulder. This wasn't a boulder like in MM, where there's a narrative reason for it to be there and your participation in a quest is required to move it. No, it was just a boulder, indistinguishable from the rest of the mountains except the map showed me it wasn't always there. After I cleared some plot device, the boulder magically disappeared and I was able to go forward.

That's not art. I judge a game not just by its visual style, music, gameplay, and storytelling. I judge it by how well it fits its genre. Some games (Smash Bros., Mortal Kombat, DOOM) bend their genre so far they set a new bar for everyone to reach: this gets high marks. Rewards for exploration are something I expect out of both Zelda and Metroid games. Zelda's roots lie in huge, open overworlds that don't restrict your progress. Wind Waker overdid it and I feel like it had too many "come back later" puzzles. MM was a little linear for my tastes. Twilight Princess made you ask "Mother may I?" every time you saw something neat in the distance and took joy in telling you no. I can tell Nintendo's experimenting with the balance between maintaining a cohesive and complicated narrative and having a very large 3D overworld, but I'd kind of like to see them dial back the storytelling if it means I get more exploration.

I don't think there's ever been a truly non-linear Zelda game, but I feel like they used to do a better job of creating the illusion.

[Matteo]

To reply briefly to Atma's post,
This is the reason that Super Metroid is my favorite game. The illusion of control is perhaps never higher, the game, despite a somewhat linear progression can be deconstructed into less linearity, and beaten with fewer items and abilities. Every time I play through it, it feels a little different.

Great art is about expansion and openness, something that can be possibly interpreted by the billions of people on earth. It cannot always be constricting nor forceful in its message, but rather must allow the viewer (or user in videogames' case) to achieve a message that is his or her's alone.

It is not what you are given, but what you take away. The more graphically and technologically advance videogames become, the more that the creator inputs and the less that the user extracts. Think about it this way: When you read a book, you as the reader create this world (albeit with descriptive language in the text) visually. If this book is created into a movie, your visual world can at times come crashing down into a pit of another's mind.

When you give voice or character to an old videogame character, one that you have "created for" and imagined further, you can upset a delicate balance. Far too often is this present in modern day videogames. Graphical style or design decisions also weigh in. Look at the recent Final Fantasies: They are a turn off to me because of ludicrous costumes, characters, and storylines.

Right now I am playing Metroid: The Other M. It will never compare to Super Metroid, not because of story or characters (it is a direct sequel) nor gameplay (despite different control and visual style it is the same basic gameplay). It will never compare to Super Metroid because of what is shoves into the game. It tells you everything, points you forward, offers an explanation for it all. In other words, unlike Super Metroid, it doesn't leave things out.

Perhaps the most painful example of this: Star Wars Episodes I-III.

[vegeta1215]

I don't think there's ever been a truly non-linear Zelda game, but I feel like they used to do a better job of creating the illusion.

The original Legend of Zelda is the closest one to being truly non-linear, and that's one of the reasons why it's my favorite.

(it is intended for you to go through the dungeons in order, but you can get to nearly every screen on the overworld before stepping foot into a dungeon, and even if you go into a dungeon, you don't have to finish it before trying another)

[Brasel]

To reply briefly to Atma's post,
This is the reason that Super Metroid is my favorite game. The illusion of control is perhaps never higher, the game, despite a somewhat linear progression can be deconstructed into less linearity, and beaten with fewer items and abilities. Every time I play through it, it feels a little different.

Great art is about expansion and openness, something that can be possibly interpreted by the billions of people on earth. It cannot always be constricting nor forceful in its message, but rather must allow the viewer (or user in videogames' case) to achieve a message that is his or her's alone.

It is not what you are given, but what you take away. The more graphically and technologically advance videogames become, the more that the creator inputs and the less that the user extracts. Think about it this way: When you read a book, you as the reader create this world (albeit with descriptive language in the text) visually. If this book is created into a movie, your visual world can at times come crashing down into a pit of another's mind.

When you give voice or character to an old videogame character, one that you have "created for" and imagined further, you can upset a delicate balance. Far too often is this present in modern day videogames. Graphical style or design decisions also weigh in. Look at the recent Final Fantasies: They are a turn off to me because of ludicrous costumes, characters, and storylines.

Right now I am playing Metroid: The Other M. It will never compare to Super Metroid, not because of story or characters (it is a direct sequel) nor gameplay (despite different control and visual style it is the same basic gameplay). It will never compare to Super Metroid because of what is shoves into the game. It tells you everything, points you forward, offers an explanation for it all. In other words, unlike Super Metroid, it doesn't leave things out.

Perhaps the most painful example of this: Star Wars Episodes I-III.

Thank you matt. This is what I've been trying to say, but was too socially stupid to put it into words. :)

[AtmaWeapon]

I like mattwdr's post. I can sort of agree with his evaluation with why Link shouldn't have voiced dialog now, but it's not a victory for the series. The only reason it might be dangerous for Link to have dialog is Nintendo has gone so long without giving him dialog. People have built an image of Link's character on their own because we never really demanded that his character be fleshed out. It's not a mark of good art on the part of the Zelda franchise, it's a mark of the paralyzing fear that they might make the game "inaccessible" to someone if the character isn't some kind of shell that has to be filled out. Why they don't have these fears for Mario, Samus, DK, Fox McCloud, or Kirby I'll never know.

Another thing I don't get; I sat down and did some hard thinking and discussed my view of Link's character in another thread. I've written more words in this thread than I did in that one. 0 replies. Why is it more controversial and worthy of debate that I suggest Link should have a voice than it is for me to suggest he's either not real, a narcissistic bastard, or a cursed soul who destroys himself?

I still say that by the bar of modern games, if the NPCs don't have voice dialog in Skyward Sword Nintendo will continue to be lagging. It's a crying shame that the cashgrab sequel to Tales of Symphonia had hours of voice acting and one of the most meticulously produced titles intended to be the cream of its crop uses caveman grunts. I will not budge on this. TP can slide by because Okami did fine without voices; I have an argument for why Okami can get away with it but it boils down to this: Okami didn't have two decades of fandom guaranteeing its purchase, and its style was very Japanese. If it had voices at all I'd want them in Japanese, and it'd have been money wasted. Another point: it never bothered me that WW had no voices. Perhaps I only get offended by lack of voice acting when the game attempts to be realistic? It does kind of ruin any immersion I have when I walk up to someone and all they say is "HooooooooiiiiIIIIII!"

[Beldaran]

Another thing I don't get; I sat down and did some hard thinking and discussed my view of Link's character in another thread. I've written more words in this thread than I did in that one. 0 replies.

Analyzing Link's character is like analyzing the psychology of wallpaper. Maybe that's why you got 0 replies.

Link is a meaningless empty vessel whose functions I co-opt in order to acquire rupees and save a cartoony world.

[Anthus]

This discussion has gotten pretty deep.

I personally don't really care if Link has a voice. Actually, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the game play (which is why I buy a Zelda game) then I don't care if they all have super hill-billy accents, and the story is about Link and Zelda having an orgy with three Moblins, and Twinrova, while Lakitu films it, and posts it to red-tube, causing Ganon to get angry, and put all the Hylians in concentrations camps.

My point is, the narrative in Zelda, or in any game, has always been extra to me. I like hearing about Hyrule's inconsistent, disjointed history, in each game, because it is a nice touch for that title, and it does help you identify with the land, it's people, and why you are doing things. AlttP, MM, and TP have some of the best lines, and stories in terms of characters, and how they are written.

When I play a Zelda game, it is an independent experience linked to the series by its recurring characters, and themes, and game play that have established it. I don't take the stores seriously, and just play the games to have fun. Whether or not Link remains silent, or constantly tells us how humble, and stoic he is really makes no difference to me as long as I can push blocks and bomb walls, and get some lady. I mean ask yourself: do you really need to see/ hear Link say "Yes, I will enter, and slay the evil within..." or "No, Princess Ruto, I don't really... like... girls"?

[AtmaWeapon]

Let's quit talking about Link. I've made my points, no one agrees with them, there's no reason for me to continue to make them. I'll accept that my view isn't universal. What about NPCs? What reason is there to leave them voiceless other than thrift? Princess Zelda and Ganon are as crucial to the games as Link, and they tend to get large amounts of dialog in each game. How would it ruin a player's delicately-constructed concepts of their personalities for them to speak the lines?

I just thought of perhaps the only reason to avoid voice dialog I might accept: timing. When you get a slice of plot that's not part of a cutscene* the dialog tends to be long, descriptive, and more like what you'd read from a book. I'm imagining the pacing for having some of that dialog spoken, and I suppose the dialog scenes would start to feel a bit long if they were voiced. I'd rather see long narrative with hooks into lore than shorter dialog to keep pacing, so perhaps it's just not a good fit. I do wish they'd try it just once.

* By "cutscene" here I mean scenes where the dialog is timed to match action you are viewing, like the Hyrule creation myth in OoT. Technically most dialog scenes in the games could be called cutscenes but in these the player controls the dialog and typically there aren't any attempts to synchronize text with action.

[Anthus]

The timing thing is a very good point. You can skip through a lot of the game's text, and get to the game, and this may be for the sake of brevity, and voiced cut scenes might just take too long. As I've said, I'm not against voice acting, for NPC's, or Link, I just don't really care either way. It would be nice to see maybe once, but really, it's more of a novelty than anything.

Actually, if I think about games (like the Tales games for example) they do voice a lot of the regular dialogue, and honestly, I find myself just reading the subtitles, and skipping most of the voice work. Maybe this is cause I'm used to Zelda, but it's just what I do. Now, usually if it is my first play through, I listen, or if I just don't feel like reading. Generally though, I skip it, and just get to the game.

[Nicholas Steel]

I can interpret text faster then I can listen to someone talk with emotion, more efficient to ignore vocals in a game.

[Mercy]

Another thing I don't get; I sat down and did some hard thinking and discussed my view of Link's character in another thread. I've written more words in this thread than I did in that one. 0 replies. Why is it more controversial and worthy of debate that I suggest Link should have a voice than it is for me to suggest he's either not real, a narcissistic bastard, or a cursed soul who destroys himself?I typed out a response to that thread shortly after you posted it but lost the post due to a wonky mouse. It peeved me too much to want to retype it, sorry. Your post made me think about the expression of heroes in art. There is a lot to be said about the strong silent type but of course you won't hear it from them.

-m.

[erpster79]

I'm kinda old school on this one but I like the 8-bit NES LoZ game to be my favorite.
very first game for the 8bit NES game console with the battery backup option of saving your games at that time.

[Rastael]

1.) Wind Waker
2.) Majoras Mask
3.) Twilight Princess
4.) Minish Cap
5.) Ocarina of Time
6.) Oracle of Ages/Seasons
7.) Links Awakening
8.) Spirit Tracks
9.) Phantom Hourglass
10.) A Link to the Past
11.) The Adventure of Link
12.) The Legend of Zelda
13.) Tingles Rosy Rupeeland
14.) Four Swords
15.) Four Swords Adventures
16.) Links Crossbow Training