Duke Nukem For Never

[Beldaran]

3D Realms has gone out of business. (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/58519)

Just posting it here in case no one saw the other ten million news sources.

Crazy news. I thought it would at least get released at some point. I can only marvel at the monumental incompetence necessary for a game development fiasco of this magnitude.

Of course, everyone should check out the obligatory list (http://duke.a-13.net/).

[Aliem]

I'm really not that shocked. It would have been more surprising to see the game on shelves, to be honest.

[Mr. 207]

Wow, thats very saddening. I grew up playing PC games by Apogee/3d Realms. I didn't think Duke Nukem Forever was coming anytime soon, but I didn't realize the company was in such dire straits.

R.I.P 3d Realms

[rock_nog]

Whelp, there go about a million Duke Nukem Forever jokes.

[Masamune]

I was actually wondering how a game announced in 1997 with all those delays would meet with the standards of 2009.

[rock_nog]

I always imagined it'd end up something like Prey - I figured one day they'd just say "Screw it," ignore all the cool features they had planned, and just focus on putting out a generic shooter just so they have a product.

[Beldaran]

I always imagined it'd end up something like Prey - I figured one day they'd just say "Screw it," ignore all the cool features they had planned, and just focus on putting out a generic shooter just so they have a product.

Prey did have all the cool features they claimed it would. The problem was, by the time it came out, those features were no longer new or interesting.

[Masamune]

I thought the portals and out of body shit were awesome.

[Questwizard88]

I figured they'd go down eventually if they didn't get that game done. And yeah, it would have been more suprising to see it released just as Janus said.

[Cloral]

Someone could still pick up the rights and then release it. Of course, that would mean the end of all life in the universe. So let's hope that doesn't happen.

[Aegix Drakan]

Somehow, I'm not surprised. I honestly don't think they were working on it at all for the last couple years.

[rock_nog]

Actually, last year there was some shaky-cam footage posted, so apparently they actually had something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqRN-yTFx1w&feature=related

[Beldaran]

It's always sad when a bunch of fat, incompetent retards screw up a great intellectual property. I was really looking forward to this game.

[rock_nog]

Here's where I think the problem was. It seemed to be that they were too obsessed with building a groundbreaking engine. And so, every time a new game was released with a more powerful engine, they'd have to start over from scratch. They really should've just focused on the gameplay and the humor, and just licensed another engine. That's how Prey finally got released - they just said fuck it and licensed the Doom 3 engine (with a few awesome modifications, I might add).

Which reminds me, I didn't mean to bash Prey, I certainly thought it was fun, it's just as Bel said, by the time it was actually released, none of its features were really groundbreaking or anything.

[ShadowTiger]

They did say they had frequent engine issues.

But they also said they often played World of Warcraft.

[Modus Ponens]

That's Blizzard's secret tactic—their competitors spend all day playing WoW so they don't finish their projects.

[Aliem]

That's Blizzard's secret tactic—their competitors spend all day playing WoW so they don't finish their projects.That's diabolically brilliant.

[DarkFlameWolf]

Pity, I love Duke Nukem.

[AtmaWeapon]

I'm mad because I was going to order the Commander Keen combo CD the day before yesterday and now their store is down :mad:

[Mr. 207]

You can buy Commander Keen off of Steam. Dont know if you wanted it for the sake of physically having it, but if you want it to play, its on Steam. I think its only $4.99 as well.

[Beldaran]

Commander Keen is really fun. I beat a couple of them back in the day when they were actually being released.

[Master Ghaleon]

Commander Keen is really fun. I beat a couple of them back in the day when they were actually being released.


I remember Commander Keen! I remember playing that on one of my step dads old computers. Fun game

[vegeta1215]

I had Duke Nukem 3D when it first came out. It was a fun game, and the humor was refreshing (and a little shocking for the time), but the game wasn't as great as some people make it out to be. Why people are still clamoring over Duke Nukem 13 years later is beyond me, esp with so many other FPS games out there.

Good riddance I say. Maybe we'll stop hearing DN Forever jokes now...

[Mr. 207]

I had Duke Nukem 3D when it first came out. It was a fun game, and the humor was refreshing (and a little shocking for the time), but the game wasn't as great as some people make it out to be. Why people are still clamoring over Duke Nukem 13 years later is beyond me, esp with so many other FPS games out there.

Good riddance I say. Maybe we'll stop hearing DN Forever jokes now...

Yea, good riddance, your right....who cares that all those people lost their jobs in an economy where it's already so hard to find one.

People are still clamoring over Duke, because Duke 3d was a genre defining game. When it came out, the #1 FPS was Doom. Duke introduced a character with attitude, a more adult setting (which was new at the time), jumping and swimming (also something unheard of at the time). People are...or were still clamoring for Duke Nukem Forever, because they were counting on Duke to reinvent the genre again.

[Shazza Dani]

Duke Nukem Forever has been a joke for a long time. Maybe if they threw in the towel a few years ago people would be more sympathetic. =\

[AtmaWeapon]

I agree with Mr. 207. Duke Nukem 3D did things that DOOM didn't. You could fly, jump, cross bridges, jump through windows into other rooms, and probably a few other things that the DOOM engine wasn't capable of. On top of this, Duke had a voice and was edgy. I loved blowing demons to bits, but it was so much more satisfying when I got a cheesy one-liner to go with it. Duke 3D was king of the FPS genre until Quake turned it on its head with true 3D environments.

I don't think it was a good FPS; I think DOOM had better levels and was overall more well-designed. But I do think it was technically superior and because of that it was easy to overlook the shortcomings.

[vegeta1215]

Yea, good riddance, your right....who cares that all those people lost their jobs in an economy where it's already so hard to find one.

People are still clamoring over Duke, because Duke 3d was a genre defining game. When it came out, the #1 FPS was Doom. Duke introduced a character with attitude, a more adult setting (which was new at the time), jumping and swimming (also something unheard of at the time). People are...or were still clamoring for Duke Nukem Forever, because they were counting on Duke to reinvent the genre again.

Geesh... yes, it's unfortunate the people at 3D Realms lost their jobs. I can't believe you thought what I wrote was in any way a comment on that. I'm saying good riddance to Duke Nukem because I don't consider it genre defining.

When most people think of DN, the language and potty humor come to mind first. I'm sorry, but that doesn't cut it for me. Doom was genre defining. Quake was genre defining. DN was not, imo.

With so many FPS games since, how would you have liked to see Duke change things?

UPDATE: I understand what Atma is saying, and he makes some good points. No doubt the people who made Duke 3D were really clever to do what they did with the tools available at the time. That doesn't change my opinion on DN. Seriously, if a new DN game was coming out do you think his attitude etc. would even affect people like it did back then? You see worse on cable TV.

[AtmaWeapon]

I think at this point it'd be more nostalgia than shocking; don't underestimate the pleasing effect of nostalgia. It's the reason I've paid for LoZ at least 4 times.

They might have been able to make it shocking enough to have the same effect, but I can't say it would have been "better" for doing so. Some time last year the staff went on the 3d Realms forums and asked the users for suggestions for scripted events that Duke might encounter in-game, and almost every single user suggestion somehow involved rape, torture, sodomy, or genital destruction. It was fairly telling of the type of person who still believed in DNF.

[Archibaldo]

They might have been able to make it shocking enough to have the same effect, but I can't say it would have been "better" for doing so. Some time last year the staff went on the 3d Realms forums and asked the users for suggestions for scripted events that Duke might encounter in-game, and almost every single user suggestion somehow involved rape, torture, sodomy, or genital destruction. It was fairly telling of the type of person who still believed in DNF.

Or you know, like 90% of the people who use the internet in general.

[Mr. 207]

I think at this point it'd be more nostalgia than shocking; don't underestimate the pleasing effect of nostalgia. It's the reason I've paid for LoZ at least 4 times.

They might have been able to make it shocking enough to have the same effect, but I can't say it would have been "better" for doing so. Some time last year the staff went on the 3d Realms forums and asked the users for suggestions for scripted events that Duke might encounter in-game, and almost every single user suggestion somehow involved rape, torture, sodomy, or genital destruction. It was fairly telling of the type of person who still believed in DNF.

As a person who on again off again frequented the 3d Realms forums, I really don't think that's true. Whoever told you that (if you didn't just make it up all together) either lied, or strongly exaggerated the truth. The forum was very heavily moderated (more so then even here), so you didn't have alot of idiots and rift raft in there.

[Radium]

We'll be playing DNF next month

[Modus Ponens]

When most people think of DN, the language and potty humor come to mind first.

Actually, when I think of DN, the first thing that comes to mind is Dark Nation.

[ShadowTiger]

Aye; It's why I hate acronyms.

[Archibaldo]

We'll be playing DNF next month

QFT. With a game this popular, for sure one of the bigger companies will pick this up.

[Cloral]

But there's no way the game has reached a state where it will be ready for release in 1 month. 1 year, maybe, but not 1 month.

[vegeta1215]

Middle box: http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/5/8/ :lol:

Reading Tycho's news post reminded me about the one thing that I do consider a pretty big deal in Duke Nukem 3D, and that is it's network play and map editing.

[Beldaran]

Yeah, if it was 1 month away from release, 3DRealms wouldn't have asked TakeTwo Interactive for $5 million to finish it.

[Radium]

oh man, the entire plot was leaked (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/46948/Duke-Nukem-Forever-28-Hi-Res-Screenshots-Entire-Plot-Leaked) and a ton of screenshots too.

[AtmaWeapon]

As a person who on again off again frequented the 3d Realms forums, I really don't think that's true. Whoever told you that (if you didn't just make it up all together) either lied, or strongly exaggerated the truth. The forum was very heavily moderated (more so then even here), so you didn't have alot of idiots and rift raft in there.It was like a 24-page thread that Broussard himself started. Some of the best became a humor article (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/prescripted-after-all.php), but I assure you I read at least 8 pages and there were enough to make a much larger article. I just flipped through tons of pages looking for it, but it looks like their archived forums posts only go back to 2005. That only represents 1/3 of the development lifetime of this monumental software engineering failure.

I'm curious exactly how much money was burned on this project. I hope Gamasutra does a good post-mortem, I live for them.

[vegeta1215]

http://kotaku.com/5249182/even-more-duke-nukem-forever-art-showcases-duke-strippers-and-milfs

In spite of what I said, the more I see, the more interested I get. (plus, hi-res bewbs are much better than pixelated ones!) Really makes you wonder if someone will pick it up...

[Beldaran]

They had so much nice looking work done. How did they not manage to just finish the damn thing? So pathetic.

[Radium]

I'm telling you, this is the lazy man's way of advertising a game.

[AtmaWeapon]

I'd side with the "I bet this is a publicity stunt" crowd if I thought there was a serious chance of it being true. This isn't the first time there has been a flurry of "look we're actually doing DNF stuff!" material. When 3d Realms got low on money, they'd make an announcement or drop a teaser to trick some publisher into thinking they were a year or so away and giving them some money. I think the only reason they made it through the last recession is the game had only been in development for about 5 years at that point, making prospects for release much more probable.

If the project developers were id Games complaining that the game required rendering technology he was still inventing, I'd believe. That's a group of people that brought 3D gaming to the PC when it was considered impossible, and every game they release pushes the envelope. 3D Realms brought fart jokes and breasts to the genre. It doesn't take 12 years to come up with fart jokes and breasts. There's no envelope to push; it's potty humor and it doesn't take much effort to make it work.

Go check out the Duke Nukem Forever List (http://duke.a-13.net/), it was linked earlier. When you consider what other companies have accomplished in the time that 3d Realms has been pretending to develop DNF it is ridiculous that there haven't been sequels. Here's my favorites:
Every Harry Potter novel, including 5 movies and numerous video games, was created since DNF was announced.
South Park's first season was the same year DNF was announced. Didn't take 12 years for them to make fart jokes, did it?
All three Star Wars prequels were released.
The Lord of the Rings movies were released.
The DVD was announced, became popular, and made obsolete.
The entire line of GeForce and Radeon cards were developed and released.
Google, eBay, Craigslist? All of this was developed in less than 12 years.

Go look at the list of games that were developed in the past 12 years. There's been roughly 4,500 games for roughly a dozen consoles. Consoles that were developed in less time than it took to make a handful of renders for DNF. That's 75 Mega Man games, everything Final Fantasy since VII, 10 Duke Nukem games, 9 Zelda games, the entire Sims series, both Max Payne games and the movie, Half-Life 1 and 2, the entire Metal Gear Solid series, and the entire Halo series. These are all large-scale games that took a long time to develop in the eyes of their developers, yet somehow they managed to release in less than 12 years. I think most telling is the fact that Croteam managed to create the Serious Engine, Serious Sam, and Serious Sam 2 starting in their garage with 10 employees.

No sir, there should be more than renders. There should be playable levels. So far the stills haven't eclipsed anything that was developed in less time by less people, and honestly some of the released content looks worse than your average straight-to-wal-mart game of today.

My guess is that the rumors are true and this was just a Broussard pet project; he wanted it to be what he wanted and didn't mind throwing money and effort away if it didn't look like what he wanted. You'd get instructions, work on a level for a while, then he'd decide that he wanted a different level and tell you to throw that away and work on a different one. That's fine if you fund it yourself, but publishers want results. We'll probably see someone pick up the license or fund continuing development, but we won't see a release until Broussard decides what he wants (or dies and is replaced by someone that can say "enough".)

[Beldaran]

I think your analysis is spot on, Atma.

This was my favorite comment from the Slashdot discussion:




Post mortem?

What is there to know? This isn't brain surgery.

Cause of death:
Lack of Adult Supervision.

[vegeta1215]

If the project developers were id Games complaining that the game required rendering technology he was still inventing, I'd believe. That's a group of people that brought 3D gaming to the PC when it was considered impossible, and every game they release pushes the envelope. 3D Realms brought fart jokes and breasts to the genre. It doesn't take 12 years to come up with fart jokes and breasts. There's no envelope to push; it's potty humor and it doesn't take much effort to make it work.

Thank you.



So... you all haven't watched this video yet? http://kotaku.com/5247608/duke-nukem-forever-gameplay-footage (March 10th, 2009)

[Beldaran]

I do think DNF is an interesting study in how modern AAA game development has become so complex. It really is a significant engineering and organizational task on the scale of designing a new jet airplane or something like that, and no longer something that a group of "dudes" with mullets can easily do in their garage.

The only people that can really do AAA development in their garage are those that are in the top 1% of intelligence, organization, and motivation for success in the industry. George Broussard is a man who benefited from being in the right place at the right time to secure his place in the game industry and Duke Nukem Forever has shown that he does not measure up to his peers in the areas of project management and company ownership.

I think the failure of DNF is sort of the final symbol of how the game industry is no longer a labor-of-love-in-your-mom's-basement kind of business. Starting a game company is not like starting a rock band. It's like trying to start a symphony orchestra and television production studio at the same time.

[Archibaldo]

I think the reason why this is such a disappointment was because of the legacy it had, not the actual game itself. With something that was promised 12 years ago, suddenly get the shaft, it's kind of like losing a pet. You sort of cared about it, but really didn't pay attention to it, but now that it's gone you miss it dearly.

It's definitely got some history behind it, mainly the list of things that have happened since it was announced.

It's just weird that it just ended like that.

Maybe there's still hope for Star Craft: Ghost ;)

[Radium]

The first piece of evidence (http://www.destructoid.com/savedukenukem-com-registered-the-day-before-3d-realms-closed-131811.phtml) that this is all a marketing game. Lol

[AtmaWeapon]

So... you all haven't watched this video yet? http://kotaku.com/5247608/duke-nukem-forever-gameplay-footage (March 10th, 2009)Seriously? That looks slightly inferior to DOOM 3-era FPS games, even the parts that they managed to texture over the course of 12 years. "Gameplay footage"? Those were less maps and more single rooms designed to test a particular enemy or game mechanic.

Frankly I'm surprised they made it that far.

[vegeta1215]

Seriously? That looks slightly inferior to DOOM 3-era FPS games, even the parts that they managed to texture over the course of 12 years. "Gameplay footage"? Those were less maps and more single rooms designed to test a particular enemy or game mechanic.

Frankly I'm surprised they made it that far.

It looks good to me. Then again, I don't own an HD capable console (Wii only), and I have an old computer that ran Quake III Arena in it's hey day :shrug:

Although, if they had any intention of actually releasing this game, I would hope they've finally released they can't keep trying to play catch up graphics-wise, and would have to settle on the graphics and just make the game damn fun. I would also hope that after 12 years the level design and story etc. are fucking incredible.

[Archibaldo]

The first piece of evidence (http://www.destructoid.com/savedukenukem-com-registered-the-day-before-3d-realms-closed-131811.phtml) that this is all a marketing game. Lol

Ha ha, a 12 year conspiracy. That would be awesome. It's the biggest practical joke ever. Fooled everybody for 12 years.