HeroOfFire's 4th Quest Beta

[HeroOfFire]

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wtzqyw4mxyk/4thQuestHoF.qst

What? HeroOfFire made a quest without scripts in it? The world is about to end!

Just kidding. I saw this 4th quest as an opportunity to create another NES nth-styled quest. Yes, I've done this twice before, so I had a vast array of ideas to try when designing this quest.

I'm going more for classic feel over NES restrictions, so while enemies match up with the level palettes, I do have a large variety of room layouts (more than the apparent NES limit) and 1 custom item and two custom enemies. The customs are available by default in the current builds, and are upgrades of pre-existing items and enemies in the previous quests. I did this to make the quest have a minor feature progression feel, similar to how the 2nd quest added a few new tricks after the 1st.

If the 3rd quest is the combat-heavy quest, this is the exploration-heavy quest. All the dungeons are in obscure locations, and many screens may have secrets hidden in a new way, such as a bush on a screen that had a whistle->stairs in a previous quest. I even have 5 "kudos" secrets in the dungeons: purely optional, but a fun bonus challenge. Also, the quest is non-linerar, as many dungeons can be passed up for later or only require a previous dungeon item to reach an optional dungeon item. Keys are spread unevenly between dungeons, and Level 9 is beatable without the Magic Key.

Also, this quest has hidden refrences. One of the major overworld secrets is based off of a different Zelda game, and the dungeons can be shapes of objects seen in later Zelda titles.

So, comments? Suggestions? Regardless of how this contest goes, this is not the last you will hear of this quest. Sooner or later, I will make a remake of it or use the dungeon layouts where you least expect it.

[Din]

I like how you used Zelda staples for dungeon shapes. Looks like there are a total of 3 competitors so far, (you, AmazingAmpharos, and Questwizard88).

As for remaking it, I think I know where you'll have it...

[ms_zelda_lady]

It's a good remake HeroOfFire. Hard but so far quite fun. I've managed to finish level 1. I've found levels 2 and 4. I tried to play a bit of level 2 but without the white sword I've not gotten too far. Although I did picked up one treasure from level 2. I got the clue from the man at the grave and I've explored all the places he said but I couldn't find the white sword. I have 6 hearts and could really use that sword. Thanks God for the blue suit otherwise I'm sure I would have died quite a few more times.
Thanks in advance,
ms_zelda_lady

[AmazingAmpharos]

I've been really enjoying it so far. You weren't kidding about exploration; it's a good thing you gave the stuff you need for that in dungeon 1. Seriously, it's like there's a secret on every screen!

Anyway, I found a bug. On the screen 2 east 1 north from the starting location, you have a cave under a bush instead of a staircase for that secret. The amazing thing is that Questwizard had the same bug in his quest...

You have a similar bug on the screen 1 north 1 east of that. It's extra annoying there since I think that's the closest money making game to the starting screen.

On the screen 3 east from the start the old man says "Take any one you want" and then takes my money. I think you forgot to change the string.

On the screen directly southwest of the northeast corner of the world, you have a Goriya give the money instead of a Moblin.

The "Leave your life or money" text in level-2 seems misaligned.

In Level-2, the room that looks like the room with the Red Candle from Level-1 has a push block in the same place that has no undercombo and reveals no secret.

I'm ending for the night having finished levels 1 and 2. My main problem is that I really don't feel like harvesting the 300 rupees I need to buy all the stuff I want to buy now; it was cruel and unusual to de-implement the money making game one screen from the entrance...

[HeroOfFire]

Most of the curious screen secret bugs are most likely results of taking proposed 1st and heavily modifying it. For example, the 1st quest doesn't have the "Leave Life or Money" string by default, so I had to imitate it from the 2nd quest as best as possible. Naturally, alignment is the hardest part.

Apparently, that combo is a bug in proposed 1st, thus why is seems to carry over into all these quests.

I recall from copying screens into other tilesets that some ground combos are CSet 2 and some are CSet 3. Although this is minor, I did address such issues in dungeons (where dark rooms would make such tiles stand out more) and have been planning on a "clean sweep" of the overworld to find are fix these strange tile and secret combo bugs.

I never really used the gamble rooms, must be because I don't like gambling if it's optional and/or only for money. I do try to keep major shops/gamble rooms unchanged though, so the gamble in the northeast is still there. I checked my map and the other gamble room appears to be on one of those buggy secret screens near the start...crud. Well if money is an issue, you could get rich quick from the major money dropping enemies. I did make the God of Poverty rather rich in DarkFlameWolf's Origin 3rd Quest.

Level 3 is potentially harder to find than level 4 (Someone found it without the hint from level 3). Most of my harder to find levels are often near old men who seem to be less helpful and more insulting "Try Looking Somewhere Else!" Level 7 could be the hardest to find in the game, although level 3 isn't any more obvious. Levels 5 and 9 could be rather easy with the right clues, and levels 6 and 8 have reasonable clues. Tip: I placed the dungeons in screens unused in the 1st and 2nd quest for dungeons. One dungeon location does overlap a dungeon location from the 3rd quest, but I won't say which one. Likewise, I placed key items in the more ususual locations. The White Sword is where I say it is, but not the screen you initially think. The Magic Sword will require thinking of where swords have been obtained in other Zelda games, and the use of a certain item in the "same" location. I also have an easter egg old man in the overworld that references a dungeon location I had in one of my other "nth" quests. Just another optional challenge for all you explorers out there. And yes, I do go crazy with the number of overworld secrets. Keep in mind most key locations from previous quests are now door repair traps, while many of the new and unusual secrets are secret money stashes or items.

If anyone reaches the levels with optional, but really useful items, expect severe challenges to find them. If all else fails, think BS Zelda. Also, only worry about bait in the Goriya dungeons, similar to how those rooms only appear in such dungeons in the original quests.

I'll start working on a bugfixed version. I already fixed a humorous bug in level 9: I forgot to put the triforce barrier back in after testing it!

[Questwizard88]

I kept forgetting to set undercombos and stuff in mine. In fact, I also even forgot the boss key in level 9 during my testing and had to no-walls my way in... lol. I haven't had a chance to play through this one yet, but I'll do it when I get back Sunday evening though and let you know what I think.

[AmazingAmpharos]

Since you have a secret on almost every screen, I just burn every bush and bomb every wall until I find the one entrance per screen (if that produces no results, I figure it must be whistle -> stairs and will go back to it once I get the Whistle). I've found most of the stuff there is to find on the overworld via this method (though I still haven't swept out the northern areas; Lynels are non-trivial to fight with early game equipment).

The fastest way to harvest money in 1st and 2nd quest was to use the gambling room directly next to the starting area. If you win, save and quit. If you lose, reset. Gambling rooms are pretty much useless if they aren't close to the starting area; I think I am going to just harvest money in the graveyard.

Anyway, I'll edit this with anything worth noting as I continue.

Okay, I'm in level-6, pretty sure I've totally cleared out 1-5, and I know where 7 and 9 are. I hope a hint in one of these two dungeons will direct me to 8 since I've thoroughly explored every screen in the world and found literally everything else. I found a few minor issues.

The string on the screen where Level-2 was in 1st quest should probably have a question mark.
Screen 11 has a green staircase when it probably should be brown.

Level-5: Don't have the Bubble carry the key; killing all other enemies before grabbing the key causes the Bubble to "drop" it AND the key to spawn, giving the player a sneaky extra key.

[patrickab7]

Good quest thus far...have found just about everything up to this point. Have cleared seven dungeons and I know where the last two are. Took me a bit to figure out what the ladder upgrade did, LOL. I have hit a stumbling block as there are a few rooms on the right side of Level 7 that I can't reach...not sure how to get there. Any hints? I have cleared the dungeon otherwise, been through both pay-up rooms and got the item.

UPDATE: Decided to go ahead to Level 8 to see if that would jog my brain a bit...made it through to the Triforce and cleared the dungeon, but again there are rooms that I can't seem to reach. Dunno if I'm missing a block I should be pushing or if I need to use an item in an unconventional way...

UPDATE 2: Went through most of Level 9, got the two items there(don't have the map yet) and made it to Ganon's door...still missing the magic boomerang and magic key, which I assume are in Levels 7 and 8...

[HeroOfFire]

That Level 5 Bug sounds interesting. I may leave it in as a fun little exploit. The original 1st quest had that self-unlocking door after all.

Levels 7 and 8 are my personal favorites. Level 7 takes advantage of room layouts that can have items and warp returns that require the player to do some interesting exploring. Level 7 also has two unexpected tricks, one from Level 4 in the 2nd quest, the other from BS Zelda. You quite literally must look for secrets in the least expected places! Level 8 is a bit less confusing, but the shape it is seems so practical, why hasn't it been used yet?

Levels 8 and 9 contain that constantly referenced BS Zelda trick needed to reach their optional dungeon items. I have no desire to directly reveal it, but as I've said, try looking in a more unexpected place.

I am wondering if the Magic Sword is in too obscure a location. I may have a clue to its location if not enough of you have been able to find it. Either way, I plan to upload a bugfixed version later and most likely confirm the submission by Monday.

[patrickab7]

Hmm...food for thought. I did use that trick from Q2 L4, but still need to dig for a way to the rest of the rooms. Perhaps checking the passages is in order...

UPDATE: Got the magic boomerang. Woo.

[HeroOfFire]

Here is the bugfixed version. The other link is now dead, to ensure no-one gets the wrong version.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tyjtyfwh4mh/4thQuestHoF.qst

Anyone finished with this quest? Anyone find all the items (only 1 additional item in the quest, which is the custom one)? Since no one complained, I left the Magic Sword without any location clues. I assume once you find some of the other levels, you would start looking everywhere and find it by accident.

So, any last minute comments or bugfixes? I'll PM a dev in about 24 hours, give or take, and then the quest is FINAL.

[AmazingAmpharos]

I haven't checked your bug fixed version, but in the original, you had the quest icons set up incorrectly (even with the Blue Ring, Link still had the green tunic quest icon). You can fix this by increasing the level of every "Ring" item by 1.

I finished up through Level-7 and believe I found everything in every level (that BS Zelda secret is ridiculous, by the way; I had to look on Gamefaqs for the BS game to find out what it was). I know where the level-9 entrance is and have found every item on the overworld, but I don't know where level-8 is. I might have found it and left and forgotten where it is (this is actually very likely), but I'd have to do a full sweep of Hyrule as things stand to track it down. I'll happily finish it if you just tell me which screen the entrance is on, but I really don't feel like doing a full Hyrule sweep.

As per commentary on quality, it succeeds at being the exploration heavy quest and is actually quite fun. The Red Bubble forced disable leading into Darknut rooms was the main flat out bad design element I saw (you give the Wand way too late for that), and I only had one really unfortunate incident with that. I was frustrated that you gave the Boomerang too late for it to really be useful, and the 4-way Stepladder so far doesn't seem to have much of any interesting use (there's one type of room that I've seen in which it was useful, and tactically it is essentially identical if not inferior to the normal stepladder since it makes it harder to abuse for the protection from enemies who can't fly thing). As implemented with your room design, it reminds me of the Magic Boomerang's nature as an "upgrade" in standard Zelda 1 (only slightly better and not strictly superior) which makes it pretty unsatisfying for being the item that veers from the NES item set, but maybe you do some really cool stuff with it in level-8 and level-9 that I haven't seen yet. This sort of thing is pretty minor in the end; it's a really good Zelda-1 styled quest. To be honest, I kinda wish it were less good given my vested interests...

[HeroOfFire]

As an exploration heavy quest, it really compliments the combat heavy 3rd quest, similar to the Oracle games. Anyone who actually completes both quests (I still believe the 3rd quest is harder) should be capable of doing well in any quest.

And yes, Level 7 introduces something ever more obscure than the "walk-through wall in the triforce room", even though that's in Level 7 as well. Now that you have that figured out, Level 8 should be a snap to explore. Level 9 doesn't pull that stunt (for obvious reasons), but it does have the infamous "you have chosen poorly" dead ends and one-way paths most Level 9s have.

Was that ring bug fixed in a later build? I seem to recall there being a bug like that at some point. Should be an easy fix.

A red bubble problem in Level 7? I'm guessing the red bubble force near the boss? I designed that to force you to use the wand on Gleeok, but I guess a Darknut room got mixed in. Maybe I should add a blue bubble just before that room in case you go there before finding the wand.

I suppose the Lv.2 Ladder is tougher to use, but it does mirror the pros and cons of the Magic Boomerang, which flies farther but means a longer wait for it to return to use it again. Also, the Lv.2 Ladder is more of a "raft-styled" item: necessary in only a few places. In fact, it is completly optional to have in Levels 7 and 8, unless you want to get the optional items.
Interesting idea for another 4-way ladder room layout. The only catch is that Levels 8 and 9 are Wizzrobe themed, which means the ladder will lose most of its tactical value. Still, I could make a last minute change to a room or two in Level 9 to make the Lv.2 Ladder a bit more used.

Similar to the 3rd quest and sort of a response to how they are considered overpowered, I intentionally made both Boomerangs hard to get. The 2nd quest did something similar with the Magic Boomerang, and the 3rd quest required heavy combat to get them. The trade-off for not having any boomerangs until at least half-way through the dungeons is getting the Red Candle early. It is useful early on as a backup ranged attack prior to the arrows, and makes finding the burnable secrets less tedious. The only thing that you will suffer on it the Digdggers prior to finding the Wooden Boomerang.

Level 8 is hidden in a location that was a Gamble in the 2nd quest. It's even hidden and reveal the exact same way. Try looking for a clue at the former location of Level 7 in the 1st quest.

Also, I have been using interesting layouts for my dungeons. For those who haven't figured out the shapes, here are the main 8 levels (I won't reveal Level 9's shape until tonight).

Hook (as in Hookshot), Feather, Gleeok (its head at least), Amulet (or Pendant), Compass, Trophy (from Zelda 2, didn't see THAT one coming did you?), Heart, and Spider (seriously, why hasn't this shape been used before?). Level 9 could be one of two things, depending on how you look at it.

[Questwizard88]

I haven't checked your bug fixed version, but in the original, you had the quest icons set up incorrectly (even with the Blue Ring, Link still had the green tunic quest icon). You can fix this by increasing the level of every "Ring" item by 1.


That also doesn't work at all. I have them that way in my quest and it still shows up green regardless of the ring color, and all the icons show up properly in ZQ, including the darkened palette. Blue ring is set as level 2, and Red is set at 3, which seems to be the same as in the default template. Something tells me its a bug, cause I've got everything set up correctly as well.

[HeroOfFire]

Here is the update with the latest fixes. Now if you go to the forced red bubble area in Level 7 without the wand, you are not screwed. Also, I added a few more room layouts that use the Lv.2 Ladder in Levels 8 and 9. Everything else is unchanged, and if all goes well, this should be the final version that I commit to the devs for the contest. If I see no other necessary changes, I should be commiting this early evening tomorrow.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2nmd2zxdz0m/4thQuestHoF.qst

[AmazingAmpharos]

I finished it (on the original version), and I believe I found everything except the Magic Book, Red Ring, and Level-9 Map. I think Level-8 was actually an easier dungeon than Level-7, but I just kinda stumbled into the Magic Key right at the start so everything else came together easily. I was honestly just happy with finishing the game once I had the Silver Arrows and found Ganon which is why I didn't fully explore Level-9 where the Red Ring doubtless was (as per the Magic Book, I would guess it's in Level-8 but it's a downgrade item so why bother with it?). I was surprised you didn't make the statues in Ganon's room shoot fire at least, but I guess your way is NES consistent (and having Ganon as a freebie isn't too bad really).

[HeroOfFire]

The trick with the Magic Key is that there are enough keys in Level 9 to open all the doors to the Silver Arrow and Ganon. Either extra keys from previous levels or the Magic Key is required if you also want to open the doors leading to the Red Ring. I think I missed the Red Ring in your 4th Quest and still beat your beefed-up Ganon, proving the Red Ring is overrated for that battle at least.

The Magic Book is all the way back in Level 2. Both of Level 2's items are optional, which is why you can skip straight to Level 3 when you first start the quest and get the Ladder really early (once you have a candle, of course).

Fun Fact: The former location of Level 4 in the 1st Quest is a Heart Container. Since this quest uses most of the gameplay aspects from the original quests, you could ignore the raft completely and still get that Heart Container via the whistle whirlwind. Of course, you may have noticed which level has the tan/blue palette, meaning this "skip the raft" method delays that Heart Container severly.

The lastest version simply fixed the combo and text bugs from the original version, made a few minor changes, such as the Red Bubble trap in Level 7. The new 4-way ladder room layouts are only in Levels 8 and 9, and are only slightly fancier than the original single layout.

By the way, how many kudos rooms did you find? As I said before, they are simply optional 10-rupee rooms, but it is a fun extra challenge to try.

[AmazingAmpharos]

I didn't keep count, but I found at least two of them and probably three. The extra money was actually quite handy. The one in Level-3 I remember specifically not being very well hidden (it was symmetric with the extra bombs room). I found the Map extremely late in a few levels (it was in the literal last room I figured out how to get to at least once) so I was constantly trying to bomb and walk-through walls that led off the map.

I think my 4th quest used the Whistle Whirlwind to the 4th warp area without the Raft in a bigger way than yours (mandatory behavior to reach my level-5!). That gimmick is too much fun, but I just found the Raft and went there the normal way. I was surprised you only put free money in the second Rafting location; that's the real place the Raft locks up.

Of all the items I just plain overlooked, I couldn't have done better than the Magic Book. It's such a horrible item; if I had found it, I probably would have just left the item cellar without grabbing it. I think I actually did that in a custom quest once and then was really frustrated when I ran into a wand fire flag...

Yeah, the Red Ring has never really been needed in Zelda-1; there's just nothing with the default enemies that a reasonable player shouldn't be able to handle with the Blue Ring and a Red Potion in reserve (other than stupid, non-Zelda-1 style things like 10 Big Circle Patras at once). There's a reason I just went and killed Ganon when I got the chance; trying to find the Red Ring that I wasn't going to need anyway was the really dangerous thing I could have done. It is a fun item to have, of course. Taking 1/2 a heart damage from Darknuts and Wizzrobes is too good.

[HeroOfFire]

I actually decided on having the kudos rooms after placing the first one in Level 5, after I had the easy-to-find 10 rupee room placed in Level 3. One of my updates changed that room into an info room or something like that. All the kudos rooms (including the true kudos room in Level 3) are not only off the map, but are also not obvious hidden rooms (empty spots on the map surronded by rooms on the map on all sides, like the eyes).

I set up the raft secrets so that they were different from the first two quests. This is why the raft-only island isn't very important anymore, while the Heart container now shows up on the other one.

The only thing I find significant about the Red Ring is the Blue Wizzrobes. To this day, they are still the bane of my existance in NES-styled quests. Blue Darknuts? No Problem! Multi-Headed Gleeok? No Problem! Room with 6+ Blue Wizzrobes that are required dead? Panic mode! If you notice, I have no issues spamming Blue Darknuts but I rarely require the player to kill swarms of Blue Wizzrobes. That Blue Wizzrobe in Level 3? 100% optional, you can ignore it.

And yes, that Whistle Warp to Level 5 was well thought out.

[zeldafan28017]

I tried to download it, but the link led me to an invalid file