QW's 4th Quest Beta

[Questwizard88]

I've been working on my entry for the 4th quest contest lately, and I figured I ought to get some feedback on what others think about it so far. For the most part, I've stuck with NES limitations now, with the exception of some new enemies, modified item drop sets, and a couple new tiles in some dungeons. All the dungeons are even shaped like something. Everything up to the end of level 7 is playable at this point.

A few notes: You'll notice things start off fairly easy in the beginning, but things get progressively harder, especially once you hit level 4. There is a level 4 cheat, 4, which you can use if you get stuck on something. It won't be there in the final version, so don't depend on it too much unless you get stuck or something.

As usual, just ask if you get stuck looking for something, though there are plenty of info rooms to give hints on where to find dungeons and some of the secrets at. Also, don't expect to get potions before you get the candle. You won't get very far. I did that intentionally to increase the difficulty a bit. Item drops have been increased slightly from what I had them at to make things slightly easier though, especially for the later levels.

Let me know if you find any bugs or glitches, though I've personally tested all the dungeons and I'm pretty sure I got all the bugs out.

Download: http://www.questwizard.net/zc/quests/qw-new4th.qst

EDIT: Use the latest alpha build to play it.
Good luck beating levels 4 and 5! :lol:

[Din]

Wow, this is amazing! If I can't get my quest in ontime, (and even if I do) I hope this one wins. The dungeons are absolutely outstanding, in my opinion.

Most questmakers always make the middle string in "Pay for Info" the one to buy. I'm able to get the middle cost for the information by guessing! What I would suggest would be randomizing a bit. On some of them, I would make the one that costs the most and least the information.

Then, this is completely optional, but in the original NES, the bottom screens have the entrance to the dungeons. If you want to follow even closer to the NES, you could try that, but again, that's optional and up to you.

Wonderful job! Seriously, there's going to be some heavy competition for the contest.

[Questwizard88]

Then, this is completely optional, but in the original NES, the bottom screens have the entrance to the dungeons. If you want to follow even closer to the NES, you could try that, but again, that's optional and up to you.
Never thought of that when I was splatting down screens to make the shapes, since I didn't plan the actual rooms ahead of time at all. My guess is that it would be hard to change at this point without redoing the dungeons. I actually wasn't expecting the dungeons to come out very well due to the lack of planning.


Most questmakers always make the middle string in "Pay for Info" the one to buy. I'm able to get the middle cost for the information by guessing! What I would suggest would be randomizing a bit. On some of them, I would make the one that costs the most and least the information.
They should be fairly randomized, but of course I can always change them around a bit.

Also, expect levels 8 and 9 to be even harder, and chock full of HP-increased variants of the enemies, at about a similar level to the L3 Ropes in level 7, and not to mention, a pretty nasty boss battle in level 8. I also changed that room in level 2 that had the Ropes to a few Darknuts instead, since the Rope can't appear in palette 3. My stupid mistake there, despite the fact that I had the enemy limitations chart fullscreened on my second monitor the entire time.

I'm just hoping those evil L2 and L3 moldorms fit into the limitations they gave in the rules, and also the modded Aquamentus in level 1. I plan on using the same one you fight for the boss in level 7 as minibosses throughout the last 2 levels.

[AmazingAmpharos]

I'm going to post massive comments. I figure it's only right to give a good analysis; hopefully the candidate quests will be able to work out most design problems at this stage. I actually logged myself playing.

DON'T READ THIS IF YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED YET.

Player log:

I started off by exploring the overworld a bit, and I found a few elevated price shops. The first dungeon I found was Level-6, and boy was that ridiculous. The first room was stupid to repeat over and over when I died in other rooms (though killing red Darknuts is way too easy). I didn't want to leave though since I found what looked like the room with the dungeon treasure really early. After tons of deaths in that sadistic blue Darknut room, I got myself the RED CANDLE. That's my favorite Z1 item, and I definitely am glad to have it in an unknown quest where I want to burn every bush. Okay, time to leave Level-6 for later; I was only pushing this hard just in case you were the kind of guy to put the Bow in the same dungeon as some Pols Voice. I died 29 times getting the Red Candle by the way; I guess you didn't want people getting it with 3 hearts and the wooden sword.

Red Candle exploration time shows me... three door repair fees right off the bat. There goes all my money. At least I found a potion shop too. Then I find a 50 rupee bonus (which wasn't in Z1, by the way)... and another door repair fee.

Bug found! The secret on the screen 1 north 2 east of the starting area (it's a 10 rupee room) is a cave when it should be a staircase.

Bug found? The screen 1 north of that has a secret with literally nothing in it.

I found a heart container! And another door repair fee... but then the 20 rupees to make up for it!

Another heart container! You don't sell the Blue Candle, but there sure is some nice stuff by burning. Good thing I got the Red Candle early!

10 rupees, I would buy Arrows if you hadn't upped the price.

I found level-4. I think I'm just going to turn around and leave.

240 rupees for a key, seriously? Also, you have a lot of different shop types.

A more bombs room on the overworld? Interesting, but I can't afford it.

Okay, I found level-9. For the purpose of the beta, you probably should have set up the entrance/exit correctly...

!!! That was a 200 rupee bonus in a really easy to find place. That was probably too generous. My money is maxed out now. Let's buy that bait.

50 more rupees, boy I'm finding the good stuff. Let's let that Goriya know that I would, in fact, like more bombs.

Hey, that was a 30 rupee door repair fee! Z1 only had 20.

Level-1 was in an evil place I was really lucky to find. Have you considered switching it with level-4? I'm lucky to have found it. The mini-map (on the active subscreen, not the passive one) appears to be screwed up in it. The top row of rooms is filled in and not connected.

That tile over water effect is really cool! On an unrelated note, the Red Candle owns in this dungeon.

The bow! That is a nice find this early. Thanks for not being lame and making the Magic Book the first treasure.

Your custom Aquamentus that faces the opposite way of Z1 wasn't really any harder than the normal one. Of course, I didn't get hit so I wouldn't know if you powered it up. Level-1 is certainly a lot friendlier than level-6!

I bought some arrows now since I have the bow.

I found level-2. It looks out of place to be unhidden on that screen, but given that you don't sell the candle, there may not be a way around that.

You have a lot of rooms with no blocks, water, or statues in them. As I go back and edit this log, I can say you have way too many rooms like this.

The boss fight in Level-2 could use some work. A red Gohma in a completely empty room? It's trivial and only manages to absolutely force you to do level-1 before level-2.

Running around burning stuff afterward let me find the Letter (!!!) and 100 rupees.

I found level-8. Again, you should have set up these entrances so we could turn around and leave.

I bought myself a red potion for 100 rupees. That's a good price considering how expensive some other stuff in this quest is.

I found Heart Container 3/5.

I found the White Sword! It's a good thing you asked that question in the contest topic.

Using the whistle on the overworld puts you right on top of the level-2 entrance and forces you to go in. You might want to fix that.

I found level-3 right where I thought it would be! By the way, this is a really forced linear progression; you really should do something about that.

Rope 2 is not a Zelda 1 enemy! I guess it's okay...

Digdogger with 1 kid and no fireball shooters is way too easy, interesting arena or not.

Hey, it's the custom Moldorm. It fell easily to the Red Candle. Was this guy supposed to be dangerous?

The old man in level-4 is really obnoxious. You should move him somewhere out of the way.

Oh boy, the Blue Ring! I probably spent 40 rupees shooting those Like Likes, but it's cheaper than the 250 it usually is. With how much you overprice the Magic Shield, Like Likes terrify me.

The Blue Candle... but I already have the Red Candle.

Level-4 was actually not that hard, despite your warnings to the contrary.

Level-5 is in another obvious place, and the Power Bracelet on that custom Lynel was pretty simple to track down.

Zol Tribbles and Vire Tribbles are also not in 1st quest, and these are more obnoxious than Rope 2. Good thing I have the Red Candle.

Ugh, I'm out of bombs and don't know where to go. I must be missing a random bombable wall. I think I'm done for now.

Design notes:

Level-1 was the most obscurely hidden dungeon I've found, seriously, and the only dungeon I haven't found yet is level-7. Switch its location with some other dungeon. I suggest level-4.

You need to spruce up some of those "empty" rooms in the dungeons. There are just too many that are just empty rooms with only enemies and doors.

You give out way too much free money concentrated in a few huge rewards and "balance" it by putting a massive price tag on Magic Shields and Bait. I was careful with the Like Likes, but the way you've structured it, getting eaten by a Like Like just sucks too much since you are in massive trouble if you run yourself out of money. I suggest giving out less money and lowering how much stuff costs to compensate.

That room in Level-6 at the very start was ridiculous. I know I wasn't really supposed to go there to start (but I'm glad I did!), but most of the "challenge" was in how long it took to clear that first room over and over again even though it was really easy. Corner traps would fix this.

You have a ton of bombable walls in the dungeons. Have you considered replacing a few of them with walk-throughs to make it easier on players who might have trouble keeping up their bomb supplies? Especially early in dungeons before you have the map, this would be really nice.

The boss fights have been really easy. I know they were really easy in Zelda 1 too, but it would be good overall to beef them up.

The western side of the world generally came out really far ahead in terms of secrets. The east is just full of door repair fees! Maybe shuffle a few around?

Your quest icons are miscolored. You based this off 1st.qst and not proposed1st.qst, didn't you?

Likewise, all your stairs on the overworld aren't of the "slow walk" combo type like they should be. It's an easy fix at least.

Personal note: Seriously, how do you get onward in level-5? I think I've bombed every wall, blown the whistle in every room, tried feeding the old man bait, and tried to push every block. I found the first bombable wall so I made it to the second area in the dungeon, but I just plain can't make any progress from here.

[Questwizard88]

Sorry if this is a bit unorganized, but there's a lot to do.

I'm in the process of fixing all this stuff. I also completely reworked the overworld so it stays more consistent with NES stuff like shop prices, door repairs all being 20 finally, and less free money. Also, level entrances got switched around somewhat, and no more funny open staircase in the woods for level 2. I'm still not selling the candle or the blue ring though (which you'll now get a bit earlier).

You'll be getting a modded level 4, which will now be 3, but without the blue wizzrobes because they're just too annoying with so few hearts. Level 3 will become level 4. I'm also reworking a few rooms in the dungeons and getting rid of most of the custom enemies other than bosses and minibosses.

The entrances are also getting moved to the bottom row like the NES dungeons were.

Don't expect as many Like-Likes either, but they'll still be all around a couple dungeons, just in smaller numbers than before.

I'm fixing those empty rooms up so there's not so many now too. Also, you won't need as many bombs for levels 5 and 7 either.

There's a few more things too that you've already mentioned that are getting reworked, and I should hopefully have this all back up to at least level 5-7 by tomorrow evening.

EDIT: I'm also implementing boss keys as well, so you'll need to find those in each dungeon now.

EDIT2: By the way, the quest icons are differently colored than the proposed quest ones, but then again, they didn't even change the rest of the palettes to match up in the proposed quests, which just looks odd in my opinion. I changed all of it to match the default palette in FCE Ultra, which is already darkened up a bit, just not as much as those icons. I think it'd look out of place if only CSet 6 was like that.

[Din]

Wow, you know, now that I've thought about this, this quest easily beats mine. I'm really liking this one, so I'm throwing in the towel.

HOWEVER...

I'm not out of this contest yet. If you need help with anything in this quest before the deadline, I'd love to help in any way I can, be it testing or a dungeon, because I actually have a few dungeons already at the trigger, and I'd be more than happy to give you one if you don't have time to make a new one.

So yeah, if you need any help, I have plenty of time on my hands. If not though, I wish you and your quest good luck! :)

[Questwizard88]

Got plenty of time up until this coming Thursday-Sunday, as I'll be gone to an anime con then. I'm trying to get everything done before then that way people can be testing it while I'm gone, then I'll fix up anything once I get back.

[patrickab7]

My latest quest attempt...Level 4 is quite effectively handing me my rear end. White sword helped, ONLY found it after the hint in that dungeon...should have thought to look there since I found that sword in a similar place in another quest.

EDIT: Finally cleared L4 and found the items within...now up to 12 hearts and looking for the magic sword before trying L5.

[Questwizard88]

Alright, here's the final beta ready for testing. Almost everything's been redone, including the overworld and parts of dungeons, which got changed up a bit. Its fully complete all the way through level 9 now. I need to know if there's any bugs this time so I can fix them once I get back from AniZona Sunday evening.

You'll need to make a new save because of all the changes.

New Link: http://www.questwizard.net/zc/quests/qw4th-b2.qst

[patrickab7]

Minor thing: Level 2 has a boss key but no boss door.

[Questwizard88]

I'm back! What a fun weekend.

Alright. The boss door is now there (stupid mistake on my part there), just not uploaded yet . How's everything else so far?

[patrickab7]

Working my way through, just completed Level 4. The bait seems to be glitched as it doesn't show up when used. Found quite a bit of stuff so far...

[Questwizard88]

Fixed the bait. Dumb me forgetting to set the sprite there.

EDIT: I am submitting the final in about 24 hours, so if there's anything else you notice, make sure to let me know as fast as possible!

[patrickab7]

Eight levels cleared and now exploring Level 9. Got everything but the magic key and red ring at this point. (Good show on the location of the silver arrow, BTW.) Only problem is that I keep getting stuck in L9 because I run into locked doors with no keys. I take it I should have the magic key by now... :P (In particular, there's one room on the right side of L9 with a one-way walkthrough wall and a locked door where you get stuck if you don't have any keys...)

[Questwizard88]

I intentionally made the lack of keys in there. You only need one key to reach the magic key (there's exactly one normal key in the whole dungeon), and you'll end up buying one if you open the wrong door. The getting stuck part, not so intentional though. I'll have to fix that. Also, if its screen 2F you're getting stuck on, that's why it has fire shooters. I designed level 9 to be this way intentionally so you'll always have some way to kill yourself just in case one of those bizzare paths through it backfires somehow. That's also why the only enemies in there are Vire Tribbles, because there's no item in the quest strong enough to kill them immediately. They'll always split no matter what, which means its impossible to get a clock. I'll go ahead and make that one a two-way walk-through. Everything else in level 9 should be good to go. I just checked all the paths through it and they all should work out fine. If there's nothing else within about another hour or so I'm submitting this as final.

EDIT: I'm just about ready to put this in as the final version. By the way, I did leave the whistle warps set by level palettes (and thus the real level numbers, not by the level numbers you might see), since it seems to be the correct way based on the second quest. I'll also get started on a really simple walkthrough of it in case people get totally stuck.

[Archangel]

Lol man, this is hard. Mine telling me where to get some heart containers and the white sword/blue ring. I could also use some money. Man I'm on level 2 and can't seem to reach the upper rooms. And dude, I found levels 9, 8, 7, and 3 before I even bothered checking the entrance to level 1 from the original two quest. Also, I love the new palette for aquamentus, but 30 HP is a killer man. I had to buy a magic shield because it kept taking me out with those damn fire balls. Also... I officially loath pols voice from this day on till I can control their jump velocity the same way we do with tetikes.

Also, Please tell me you didn't use a super strong dodongo for the boss of level 8. That's just mean.

[Questwizard88]

Lol man, this is hard. Mine telling me where to get some heart containers and the white sword/blue ring. I could also use some money. Man I'm on level 2 and can't seem to reach the upper rooms. And dude, I found levels 9, 8, 7, and 3 before I even bothered checking the entrance to level 1 from the original two quest. Also, I love the new palette for aquamentus, but 30 HP is a killer man. I had to buy a magic shield because it kept taking me out with those damn fire balls. Also... I officially loath pols voice from this day on till I can control their jump velocity the same way we do with tetikes.

Also, Please tell me you didn't use a super strong dodongo for the boss of level 8. That's just mean.

You can only get two HCs at that point, assuming you've gotten the bracelet, which is in fact in level 2 by the way. One is up by the white sword's location in the 1st quest, and the other is right by the starting screen, and you'll need the bracelet to find it.

The Aquamentus is quite strong there, and the fastest way to wipe it out is with bombs or sword beams. I tend to use sword beams until I get hit, then I just spam bombs on it with sword hits in between, and drop it pretty quick.

By the way, yes the level 8 boss is Dodongo, just not any stronger than normal. There's just more than one of them, and lots of fireballs going around to add to the fun. Be prepared to use the stun and slash tactic on them. You'll probably need it.

The blue ring is hidden away in level 3, and doesn't require anything other than a bomb and the sword to get. Its very easy to find, and not that far from the level's entrance. Just be prepared for some wizzrobes and a few like-likes. The white sword is on Death Mountain at a dead-end, and requires the bracelet to get.

As far as money goes, just start bombing away on the top 2 rows of screens on Death Mountain and you're bound to find some. There's only a couple door repairs up there, and they're both west of the stream that comes from the waterfall. There's also a whopping 100 rupees in the desert and 30 not too far east from there, but watch out for the door repairs all around it!

EDIT: Also, the final version is down in my sig, but you shouldn't have to worry about it for now, as it only fixes a couple of stupid things I missed that aren't really progress-stopping bugs, since you can just kill yourself if you get stuck in level 9.

L9 Hint: The door you need to open with that lone key is far to the west!!! The magic key is accessible from that room it unlocks. If you open the wrong one, you'll need to go buy another and try again.

EDIT (#5 or something like that): The final version is here: http://www.questwizard.net/zc/quests/qw4th.qst FINAL EDIT: <- This has now been submitted as the final version!

[patrickab7]

Can't seem to find that key in Level 9...ugh.

EDIT: Got it, and the ring...

[Questwizard88]

Yeah, it's very well hidden there. A tough one to find if you aren't checking all the walls carefully.

[patrickab7]

Helped to realize that certain things on one side of the dungeon held true on the other side as well.

Levels 8 & 9 were very complex(in a good way)...did finally complete the quest last night, good job.

[zeldafan28017]

I can't find the letter or the silver arrow, can you give a small clue