Looking For Feedback

[CSD]

So, I've been messing around with zc for a few months, but I still don't really have a clue what I'm doing, lol. Anyway, I made a dungeon... yay me.

http://www.freewebs.com/cavehelp/Level_5.qst

I'd like some people to try it and tell me, basically, everything they can think of. Good, bad, and ugly. Just, anything at all would be nice, really. I'd prefer if you actually played through the whole thing, so you get the full "impact", lol. I'll provide help if you get stuck. Just ignore the overworld for now -- it's only there 'cause you need to exit it to it once of twice in order to get through the dungeon, but other than that it serves no purpose -- pretend it isn't there.

I figure I'll mention, since this is something, if there were a whole quest up until the point of this dungeon, you'd know to try it by now, but if you play the whistle it'll start raining, and if you enter the dungeon after flooding it out... well... anyway... I hope you try it. There's a block-push puzzle around half-way through that's mandatory.

I had a hard time figuring which thread this should be in. I narrowed it down to this, quest announcement, and editor help. Neither really seemed to be what I'm looking for... If you have a better idea of where this goes, please move it.

EDIT: It turns out I forgot to give you a required item (which wouldn't be required if I didn't need to use heavy push blocks to trigger secrets), so if you downloaded it already (you didn't), please re-download. Sorry for the inconvenience that I probably didn't cause.

[CSD]

Wow... You guys are a helpful bunch, lol. Well, there's really no point in me continuing this is nobody's even gonna bother to try it. How am I supposed to figure out what I should be doing differently? I guess I'll find something else to do... I hear Guitar Hero's pretty fun?

Seriously, somebody saying something. That'd be nice. A random scramble of characters would be better than nothing.

[CaRmAgE]

A random scramble of characters would be better than nothing.

:eek: :tongue: :rolleyes: :D ;) :) :cool: :p

Anyway, I'm sure everyone has their reasons for not checking it out. I, myself, am at college right now with a busy schedule. If I ever get a huge break from work, I can look into it; but for now, I'm really cramped here for time. It does sound interesting though...

[*b*]

First off, uploading it somewhere where you don't have to do anything to download it would be helpful. Megaupload sucks, because after you put in the code, you have to wait for it to download. Second, there's not much time do play quests lately, what with school/college and work. Be patient

[Edit] Also, I refuse to download from Megaupload. If you want me to try it, do as I said at first and upload it somewhere else. Preferably where all you have to do is click the link

[Shazza Dani]

What ZC version is this for?

[CSD]

Oh, I used 2.5 build 743. At some point I was going to remember to include this in the first post, but then I forgot, lol.

And megaupload is terrible... I usually only use it for, like, 100MB+ files. Have you guys any better suggestions for large files, because I'd really rather not use megaupload if I don't have to. Anyway, I'll move it over to my freewebs now, but you guys have to promise not to attempt to visit any of the other pages, because the content is totally not about Neopets (lol, try my pirate cave up on canadianstickdeath -- it's crazy).

www.freewebs.com/cavehelp/Level_5.qst

[CaRmAgE]

I like the design of the level. Pretty clever, actually. I actually recognized the solution to that push-block puzzle immediately, but it's still a pretty clever one. I do have a few changes and grievances, though:

Changes:
1) At your second "flooding point" (not sure what else to call them) at the NE area of the dungeon, the floor around the magic-rod-triggered switch is incorrect when the dungeon is flooded (it's the dry stone instead of the wet floor).
2) Make the staircases into the dungeon at least slightly visible when flooded? I had problems finding them the first time through.

Grievances:
1) Are there any enemies that drop magic in this dungeon? I'd hate to keep walking back to the puzzle room to constantly refill my tiny supply.
2) The Zoras + Traps + Swimming combo really ticked me off. I honestly think it's too much to ask of the player to time the dodging of five traps (almost) in a row, while dodging fireballs all at once, especially with such a slow swimming speed. The corner with all Zoras is fine, though. Just do something about that top-right corner.
3) The Darknuts were OK to fight for the most part (even when you introduced a single blue Darknut). However, I though the jump up to four blue Darknuts at once on ice was too sharp of a difficulty increase (even though I had no trouble with them). Maybe make two of them red? :shrug:

[CSD]

Lol! Somebody actually played it! Yay!

Changes:
1 - You know what, everytime I enter that room, I got the vague feeling that something was off. That's for pointing that out!

2 - I only included any overworld at all because you need to exit to it every so often. This is not how you would enter the dungeon in an actual quest.

Grievances:
1 - You know, I have no idea at all. Do gibdo's drop magic? What about the pots? If they don't, the answer is probably no, lol. What all drops magic?

2 - Yeah... So I ran out of ideas, lol, so I just spammed the traps and zoras everywhere. Those were the last few rooms I made. Making those upper-left rooms three times over was quite an exercise in monotony. I'll guess I'll cut back on a few zoras.

3 - You don't need to fight those blue darknuts -- you can just run past. You are right though. It at least seems... out-of-place. I'll take three down to read, probably leaving the one closest to the entrance blue?

Well, again, thanks for playing it! I'm glad somebody did. I was expecting to come here and find that there were still no replies, lol. Is anybody else planning on giving it a try? I'd like to hear everything that anyone has to say!

[CaRmAgE]

Lol! Somebody actually played it! Yay!

That's because it's MLK weekend, and I get a day off from college (meaning more time to finish work and have free time). Hopefully, I can finish the dungeon before I really get crammed with work...


Changes:
1 - You know what, everytime I enter that room, I got the vague feeling that something was off. That's for pointing that out!

You're welcome. :)


2 - I only included any overworld at all because you need to exit to it every so often. This is not how you would enter the dungeon in an actual quest.

So it's just a temporary screen? It all makes sense, then...


Grievances:
1 - You know, I have no idea at all. Do gibdo's drop magic? What about the pots? If they don't, the answer is probably no, lol. What all drops magic?

Well, I looked up the item drop lists, and I believe gibdos don't, but darknuts do. I'll check it out later.


2 - Yeah... So I ran out of ideas, lol, so I just spammed the traps and zoras everywhere. Those were the last few rooms I made. Making those upper-left rooms three times over was quite an exercise in monotony. I'll guess I'll cut back on a few zoras.

Yeah, I can understand how long it took. Thanks, though.


3 - You don't need to fight those blue darknuts -- you can just run past. You are right though. It at least seems... out-of-place. I'll take three down to read, probably leaving the one closest to the entrance blue?

I just remembered something. When I killed all four blue darknuts, a chest appeared, and when I opened it, there was nothing inside. Was that intentional?

[CSD]

"Was that intentional?"
I think it was. I wasn't too sure if I actually went through with that or not, so I didn't mention it in my last post.

So you haven't actually finished it yet? I thought you had... What's the current progress? I'll mention beforehand, I guess, that there's some things in the final act that I'm not particularly proud of. Odds are, you're going to come across them, and dislike them even more than I do. The "secret passage" mentioned by the moblin is probably the main one... If you hate it as much as I do..., well, I'll be easily convinced to change it.

[CaRmAgE]

Yeah, I'm not done yet. I still need to find that "secret passage", and I need more magic upgrades to kill the gibdos with the mirror. I think I'll try to figure it out myself first, though... Well, maybe just one thing. Do I need bombs for anything?

Either way, I'm going to sleep now. I'll continue tomorrow.

[CSD]

You'll need one bomb to open a path, and a couple more to defeat the dodongo within. There's only one wall crack in the entire dungeon, so if you see it, place a bomb nearby. You'll probably find bombs after killing a few darknuts, but I put some in a chest just in case some never turned up.

And I'm getting this weird bug where the compass marker is barely showing up, and if you have the map, it's completely invisible? It works fine in the main quest file, so I have no idea what the difference would be. Anyway, if you have the compass, but can't see the marker, it should be the blinking on the bottom-left room.

[CaRmAgE]

You'll need one bomb to open a path, and a couple more to defeat the dodongo within. There's only one wall crack in the entire dungeon, so if you see it, place a bomb nearby. You'll probably find bombs after killing a few darknuts, but I put some in a chest just in case some never turned up.

Well, I have 12, so I shouldn't run out anytime soon.


And I'm getting this weird bug where the compass marker is barely showing up, and if you have the map, it's completely invisible? It works fine in the main quest file, so I have no idea what the difference would be. Anyway, if you have the compass, but can't see the marker, it should be the blinking on the bottom-left room.

I noticed that I couldn't see the mark, but didn't care since I know where the boss door is. As for the map, I can see it, although it is a little dark...

EDIT: I was right. Darknuts do drop magic. I think I'll be OK now.

EDIT2: ...or not. I found another magic upgrade behind the cracked wall, but it was only enough to kill one of the gibdos. In case I'm missing any more upgrades, here are the ones I found already.

1) Next door to the puzzle room
2) Outside the boss room
3) Behind the cracked wall

Also, I haven't found the "secret passage" yet (unless killing those gibdos is involved). So, any help?

[CSD]

OK, I'll tell you, but you're probably gonna hate me, lol. The final magic container is in an unmarked room behind a waterfall in the unflooded version of the dungeon.

The "secret passage" (which totally sucks, btw) is located in the unflooded version of the room that would have the 10 zoras in the flooded version (upper left corner). You walk north into the bottom of the room's "pillar" and follow a path around and into the room with the moblin and then continue through to the dungeon boss.

I thought this would be cool, until I realized that, since you're not actually link, you won't be able to feel the walls around you in the dark, lol. Then I thought it wasn't going to bug me so much, but after posting it here, I realize now that I'm not going to be able to live with its absolute crappiness.

I'm going to change it as soon as a get a new power adapter for my laptop. Notice the doors to the left and the right of the moblin room that don't seem to connect to anything? I'm gonna change it so that you can walk directly into the side of the next room through a door, which would be obscured by the overhang. Then I'll put a staircase warp to the boss, or something. I think that'd be much less crappy and a more reasonable thing to ask of players.

The boss a triforce rooms... are also lacking. Sorry for the crappy final act, k?

[CaRmAgE]

OK, I'll tell you, but you're probably gonna hate me, lol. The final magic container is in an unmarked room behind a waterfall in the unflooded version of the dungeon.

The "secret passage" (which totally sucks, btw) is located in the unflooded version of the room that would have the 10 zoras in the flooded version (upper left corner). You walk north into the bottom of the room's "pillar" and follow a path around and into the room with the moblin and then continue through to the dungeon boss.

I thought this would be cool, until I realized that, since you're not actually link, you won't be able to feel the walls around you in the dark, lol. Then I thought it wasn't going to bug me so much, but after posting it here, I realize now that I'm not going to be able to live with its absolute crappiness.

I'm going to change it as soon as a get a new power adapter for my laptop. Notice the doors to the left and the right of the moblin room that don't seem to connect to anything? I'm gonna change it so that you can walk directly into the side of the next room through a door, which would be obscured by the overhang. Then I'll put a staircase warp to the boss, or something. I think that'd be much less crappy and a more reasonable thing to ask of players.

The boss a triforce rooms... are also lacking. Sorry for the crappy final act, k?

Actually, the first thing that came to my mind after listening to the moblin was to check the pillars. I guess I missed checking one, though. You could go with your own suggestion (which I'm sure would be easier to find), or you could change the moblin's speech to indicate that the correct screen has no traps or some other difference. Just to throw an idea out there.

As for the waterfall, I believe I know which one you're talking about. Of course, silly me, I only checked the waterfall in the flooded version. I should have known better. :sick:

Overall, don't feel bad about making hidden doorways. Just make sure you have proper clues to help the player.

[CSD]

I could make a more helpful message, but then it'd make things too obvious instead of too vague -- it's impossible to find a middle ground here. The main thing I don't like about it, though, is fumbling around without knowing where you are and taking random hits from the tektites. I just... don't like it. And the reason that room has no traps or enemies is because I needed to warp you to another map in order to get that passage to work, and I didn't want to figure out if/how enemy and trap positions can be carried over. Actually, I may remove the moblin altogether, leaving your only clue to be the presence of doors to which no room supposedly connects (except, of course, now the doors are actually connected to the immediate rooms, just hidden by the overhangs). I think it'd work better that way, and, when somebody gets mad when they can't find it, at least then I can justify the solution a little better.

Lol. The first thing that comes to my mind whenever I see a waterfall is to check behind it. It's OSD. I gotta check, no matter how unlikely. Sorry about that thing with the checking it on the flooded version. It's another one of those low ceilings, except this time you can't see that it's there. The worst part is, when you emerge into the next room, you're on the upper portions of the level, so it'd make more sense if it worked on the flooded version and not the... unflooded, lol. I made the floor behind the waterfall a slowwalk combo, as if you were going up stairs... Think of it as an upward sloping tunnel, or something. When you say "I should have known better", do you mean that you actually should have known to try it on the lower water-level version, or are you implying that it was something that you shouldn't have been expected to know? Text is no good at sarcasm.

You're basically done at this point. There's a couple of things worth seeing, I guess. After the secret passage but before the boss door, there's a switch that activates a shortcut back to the boss room. Also, the method with which you pick up the boss key is kinda neat too (you've done a similar thing a dozen times already, but I guess it works as a nice little "final hurrah").

[CaRmAgE]

I could make a more helpful message, but then it'd make things too obvious instead of too vague -- it's impossible to find a middle ground here. The main thing I don't like about it, though, is fumbling around without knowing where you are and taking random hits from the tektites. I just... don't like it. And the reason that room has no traps or enemies is because I needed to warp you to another map in order to get that passage to work, and I didn't want to figure out if/how enemy and trap positions can be carried over. Actually, I may remove the moblin altogether, leaving your only clue to be the presence of doors to which no room supposedly connects (except, of course, now the doors are actually connected to the immediate rooms, just hidden by the overhangs). I think it'd work better that way, and, when somebody gets mad when they can't find it, at least then I can justify the solution a little better.

Yeah, wandering in the dark for one board is permissible, but 5+ boards in a row is not. I was thinking just get rid of the overlay for your interior version of the screens so that Link can see where he's going, but your idea works, too.


Lol. The first thing that comes to my mind whenever I see a waterfall is to check behind it. It's OSD. I gotta check, no matter how unlikely. Sorry about that thing with the checking it on the flooded version. It's another one of those low ceilings, except this time you can't see that it's there. The worst part is, when you emerge into the next room, you're on the upper portions of the level, so it'd make more sense if it worked on the flooded version and not the... unflooded, lol. I made the floor behind the waterfall a slowwalk combo, as if you were going up stairs... Think of it as an upward sloping tunnel, or something. When you say "I should have known better", do you mean that you actually should have known to try it on the lower water-level version, or are you implying that it was something that you shouldn't have been expected to know? Text is no good at sarcasm.

That's the first thing that comes to my mind when I see waterfalls I can reach. Sometimes, though, I get preoccupied with other tasks that I sometimes forget about checking suspicious areas. So, no, I wasn't being sarcastic. I just felt really silly for waiting that long to check it.


You're basically done at this point. There's a couple of things worth seeing, I guess. After the secret passage but before the boss door, there's a switch that activates a shortcut back to the boss room. Also, the method with which you pick up the boss key is kinda neat too (you've done a similar thing a dozen times already, but I guess it works as a nice little "final hurrah").

The boss key was actually my favorite part of the level. That's a great trap you have there. Definitely appreciate the shortcut, too. I needed to use it quite a bit because of the boss. Speaking of which, is it possible that you can move where patra spawns? I don't like how he spawns right on top of me when I enter the room (especially with his 2 hearts damage rate).

What's with the lights going out in the Triforce rooms, anyway? It seemed a little odd...

[CSD]

It is possible to avoid that patra, but it seems to be fairly random (and rare) for this to occur. Those last two rooms, I'm gonna say they're not finished. I'll come back to them after (if?) I make a few more dungeons... And I thought of taking the ceiling away already, and it looked kinda stupid, so I just put it back...

Anyway, I said this a couple times already, but thanks for taking the time to play it!

Is anybody else planning on giving it a try? What about the guy that asked me to move it off of megaupload? Maybe the guy that asked me what build it was for? I'll check the board for a few more days, but I'm betting I'm going back to talking to my echo. I'll post here again if I make something else worth getting feedback for.