Get out the lube...

[Anthus]

Because Nintendo is ready to bend over, and thoroughly RAPE our Zelda series.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/920/920705p1.html


Miyamoto himself commented in an IGN interview that Zelda is "... a franchise that does need some big new unique ideas."

Oh, you mean bullshit gimmicks like turning into a wolf, and listening to some stupid furry, or going through dumbed down dungeons with some dope ass Jack Sparrow never-was, and fairy on your balls?


Miyamoto offered those words at E3 2008, where he also confirmed that a new Wii Legend of Zelda game is in development by key members of the Twilight Princess and Phantom Hourglass teams.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Phantom Hourglass needs to drop from existance. It was a steaming pile of Moblin shit.


First, Nintendo is obviously aware that the series needs a new hook or two -- even if Twilight Princess remains ..it lacks a certain freshness, largely because it adheres to the age-old Zelda formula..

Which works FINE so don't go and fuck it all up - oh, wait, too late.


it is usually still the same quest with new bells and whistles and it is partially because of this that titles like Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time feel so similar

Two points: One, the old formula works fine. It is when they try too hard to be "fresh" when things start sucking... Twilight Princess would have been cool.. minus the dumb fetch quests, and simplistic dungeons, and even easier bosses. Point two: TP is not really like OoT at all. Granted, it does have it beat in size, and overworld (which is one of the things it has going good for it). OoT was awesome simply because it was different, but in the right way. It kept the same formula, and made it 3D. Twilight Princess takes a good formula and adds some annoying character who is on your dick the entire game (and worse off, they try and get you to feel sorry for her, which had me wandering around for a while when she was dying just out of spite. I hoped maybe she would die.) Another reason TP lagged. Nintendo went all bullshitty mainstream with it, and took out some of the more hardcore stuff, and made the game simpler. No complex bosses that actually pose a threat... No having three keys, and choosing your path in a dungeon. No openly exploring Hyrule (at least not until later in the game). It lost a lot in the transition.


Case in point, you won't see any comparisons to director Eiji Aonuma's first N64 Zelda, Majora's Mask, for that dark and difficult title included an original storyline set outside of the traditional save-the-princess theme.

This statement alone almost brings me to tears. Imagine if it were true: Any- ANY hope for a Majora's Mask sequel.. gone. Now, we are for sure getting a gimmicky shit pile. This; along with WW was one of the very few times where deviance paid off since it was done right.

So this article is basically about who people want the series to change. They say they want things like voice acting in a Zelda game. This could go either way depending on whether or not Link stays silent. It's likely he would though. People are saying they want something new, but whenever we get something new, it seem to be gimmicky and mainstreamed to the point where it is lost. Twilight Princess was okay. Phantom Hourglass utterly sucked. This is not a good trend. Even before that, you had Minish Cap which was good, Wind Waker which I loved, then the Oracle games, then Majora's Mask. Somewhere in there, you even had a semi-AlttP sequel in the form of Four Swords Adventures. This was a change, but it worked. Mainly becaus it kept enough the same. I don't think this game was meant to be taken all that seriously though.

Let's hope this doesn't happen with the Next Zelda. Here's for hoping.

[Beldaran]

I think the part about difficulty was most poignant.

The problem with modern games is that they cost so much to make, that developers feel pressure to market to the lowest common denominator. They end up making a game that stupid people buy but don't like, and fans want to love but don't like.

Zelda should be a hard game. That's what made the original Legend of Zelda and Zelda II so much fun. Legend of Zelda was hard, especially for a 10-year old. Those wizzrobes would kick your ass and send you scrambling for that old potion lady. The 2nd quest was even better! Your life-alarm thing is beeping, you're out of potion, and the three headed dragon is in the next room. Your balls are in your stomach and your stomach is in your throat. That was some good gameplay.

Newer Zeldas are kind of fun, but you'd have to have down syndrome to fail to beat them. They are really easy, even the harder parts only take a few tries to get right.

I also agree about the story. There is no reason Zelda games shouldn't have an awesome and cohesive story. The fantasy setting just begs for it.

[aces2022]

Ya Phantom Hourglass sucked. But how do you get bigger than having moon from falling on Hyrule and destroying the planet but then getting four giants to push it back into orbit? The thing in the article that says it would like to see more than just on the surface features of Link kinda catches my attention, but catching the true Link without narrative would be extremely hard thing to do. Miyamoto has said before that he WILL NOT have Link talk. It would kinda destroy his picturesque being.

[g.iaroos]

They need to make a new 2D zelda with clever dungeons and release it on the virtual console, like Capcom did with MM9.

[Revfan9]

Zelda? Nintendo canceled that series a long time ago. Twilight Princess and onward were all made by some pirates, who also made the CD-i Zeldas.

[rock_nog]

Part of the problem with difficulty, too, is that we've just gotten better. I remember when I was a kid thinking that Zelda 3 was just this epic, monstrous thing that really challenged me - fast forward to when I got it on VC, after not playing it for years, not remembering the layouts to the dungeons or the bosses or anything, and I just breezed through it.

[MottZilla]

After Majora's Mask, I stopped really caring. I know there was a big deal about Twilight, but by that time I wasn't very hopeful. I mean OoT was good back in the day. But part of that was the whole 3D being new. Zelda really is a 2D game, similar to Metroid really. It just doesn't translate to 3D very well. Though Metroid faired better I think.

[Anthus]

They end up making a game that stupid people buy but don't like, and fans want to love but don't like.

This is a good point. It basically summarizes my point. Unfortunately, I doubt Nintendo will drop the mainstream theme any time this decade, which is sad when you watch your favorite series suffer dearly.

[g.iaroos]

This is a good point. It basically summarizes my point. Unfortunately, I doubt Nintendo will drop the mainstream theme any time this decade, which is sad when you watch your favorite series suffer dearly.

Yeah, see you in 201X nintendo! When robot masters will start roaming the city, maybe you'll change your mind!

[Aegix Drakan]

OY....

Look, although I think TP was a great game...it lacked a lot. IMHO, Okami pwns TP with all four paws tied down. It had everything that TP lacked (minus the difficulty that leads to "hey feeling hof accomplishment (~Yatzee)")

And that's something I whole heartedly jump on the bandwagon about. TP had the perfect difficulty.......FOR AN EASY MODE. when the last boss does a pretty impressive looking attack, and you panic as the attack blasts into you...you expect to lose at least a whole heart. Hell, I was expecting 3! ...but no, I got nailed with an impressive looking attack and walked away with only half a heart less. ...There's got to be something done. give us an easy mode and an expert mode, please! I don't want to have to skip out on heart containers just to make the game even remotely challenging (aside from ONE, maybe TWO tough calls. [The first encounter with a darknut, and the first encounter with that flying shielded lizard thingy.]. I think the only time I even died was in the mines, when I missed the first few jumps up somehow and landed in the roaring magma 3 freaking times!

And as interested as I am in the possibility of having 1:1 swordfighting...I am INCREDIBLY worried that nintendo is going to overuse it and then it will be a hassle just to kill a regular enemy! If it's doone well, it could be awesome, but I think it's within my rights to be a little bit worred about it all.


And lastly, I thought Phantom hourglass was a pretty good (albeit freaking short and easy) handheld zelda game. Nowhere near as awesome as Link's awakening, but still a decent addition to the DS. A few extra dungeons would have been VERY welcome though.

I DO hope that they take liberties with the story again. I mean, that's one of the things that made Majora's mask awesome. It was not the SAVE PRINCESS FROM GANON tale that we've hear about a good hundred times. In fact, if they do pull that again, I will have to call shenanigans, because IMO, Ganon is now officially dead in BOTH timelines, and I think we need to move on from that front.

Oh, and voice acting is a bad bad idea. Those who feel that having to READ reminds you that you are playing a game were either born with no imagination, or have had it sucked out by halo and its siblings. I don't want vioce acting to even TOUCH the series, unless it's just a one liner you hear when you talk to an NPC ("yeah, what is it?" "Is something up?" ETC.)

TLDR: This game better have some kind of hard mode, a fresh variation on the story, and NO FREAKING VOICE ACTING. The main formula of going from dungeon to dungeon getting items and becoming more and more lethal, however, needs to stay if it can even call itself a ZELDA game!

[rock_nog]

You know what - I'm gonna go against the the grain and say I want to see something like Wind Waker. There, I've said it. I frickin' loved that game. I mean, okay, sailing got really boring, really fast, and it was over-the-top ridiculously easy, but come on - it was a new direction, a new idea, and I loved the art style (yes, it was cartoonish, but it was really well-done). I want to see something like that - I'm not saying a(nother) sequel, but another game that goes off in a different direction, and radically changes the setting.

[Aegix Drakan]

You know what - I'm gonna go against the the grain and say I want to see something like Wind Waker.

...

I want to see something like that - I'm not saying a(nother) sequel, but another game that goes off in a different direction, and radically changes the setting.

/me hops into the bunker along with Rock Nog.

I'm in support of this too. The Zelda formula is fine. The setting and story need a new direction, though.

[The_Amaster]

I dunno, maybe it's because my first Zelda games were the GBC ones, and I started the series with the slightly cartoony games, but I really loved, I mean, loved TP's art style. I would love nothing more than to see a game designed in the same style as TP, but with this-gen graphics.

Storyline needs work though. MM had the originality, and TP started down the path of production values(with some of the gorgeous cutscenes), but I do want a really deep, new, moving plotline.

In contrast, PH is my least favorite, and I almost regret buying it, because it was short, and above that really frickin easy.
Seasons and Ages had massive dungeons spanning 4, 5, 6 floors filled with tough enemies and puzzles, that occupied me for a couple dozen hours the first time through. I miss being able to sink that amount of time into a game

[Cloral]

You know what - I'm gonna go against the the grain and say I want to see something like Wind Waker. There, I've said it. I frickin' loved that game. I mean, okay, sailing got really boring, really fast, and it was over-the-top ridiculously easy, but come on - it was a new direction, a new idea, and I loved the art style (yes, it was cartoonish, but it was really well-done). I want to see something like that - I'm not saying a(nother) sequel, but another game that goes off in a different direction, and radically changes the setting.

I don't think you're going against the grain with that statement. WW was enjoyable, and the dungeons it did have were well done (I think the Earth Temple is my favorite 3d Zelda dungeon to date - though the desert temple from OOT would be a close second). WW with 8-9 dungeons would have been nearly as good as OOT in my opinion.

[Shazza Dani]

... WW with 8-9 dungeons would have been nearly as good as OOT in my opinion.

If the Wind Waker had a decent amount of dungeons, it would have stomped OoT into the ground.

[Aegix Drakan]

@Amaster: I loved Seasons and Ages a lot too! :D Being able to link up both games and progress more through them was freakin awesome.

Although in my mind...It was always Seasons first, THEN ages. Ages just seemed to fit better as the second half. (It also helped that Seasons had more action, and ages had much harder puzzles).

Also, gotta love those subrosians! XD

[Shazza Dani]

I love Oracle of Seasons, but I find Ages to be frustrating at times. I do praise OoA, however, for being the most challanging Zelda game while still being fun overall. (Zelda II is more challanging, but it's not the least bit fun.)

[Modus Ponens]

If the Wind Waker had a decent amount of dungeons and greater difficulty, it would have stomped OoT into the ground.

Improved.

[g.iaroos]

Hell, I was expecting 3! ...but no, I got nailed with an impressive looking attack and walked away with only half a heart less.

Aaah yes, the good old times when losing 3 hearts was a possibility in Zelda. I remember in LttP when I first went to the dark world and got my ass whooped by those pesky cyclops.

[Nicholas Steel]

WW is boring after your first trip under sea, after that trip the dungeon design becomes freakishly straight forward or extremely long/boring. Sailing to get 8 triforce maps then sailing to get the 8 pieces? fuck you! that has to be the most boring part of any zelda game ever made! also in WW you can counter every enemies attacks, counters result in 99% of the time you taking no damage while damaging the enemy and every single attack even from Ganon deals at most, 1 single heart and he is extremely easy to beat once you know how to beat him.

I have not played anything newer then WW so I cant say how much worse it has gotten, all I can say is that MM and OoT are good examples of the game done in 3D and Oracle of times/ages is an excellent example of 2d gameplay.

[Anthus]

For the record WW is one of my favorites. It is an an example of good variation, along with Majora's Mask. Both were different, but kept it Zelda. Twilight Princess, while I'll admit had some good moments, and was an enjoyable game, I just don't think it was everything Zelda should be. You have to look at it, and think... if only they had done this. Dungeons are the weakest point. The most difficult dungeon, I think was the Lakebed Temple. I liked the Temple of Time though, even though it was straightforward.

Now, 1:1 sword fighting would probably be done to death, annoying and cumbersome, and the game would still be easy as shit. Not much faith, but look at the reality of it: We were all so excited when we heard TP was going to use the Wiimote... We thought we'd have this from the start. No, we got an arbitrarily move performed by jerking the controller. It was really worth pushing the game back another nine months.

[Revfan9]

WW was a great game, it just needed a few things:

1. Sailing gets boring, fast. You can warp around, yes, but a lot of people never figured out that you actually can do that and you still have to spend way too long just doing fucking nothing. Fix it.

2. Too easy. Include a "Veteran" mode or something, even if it's like Metroid Prime where you have to beat the game on Normal first to unlock the harder mode.

3. Too short. Those rumored temples (Jungle and Ocean) being added to the sage quest would have been perfect. I mean, that just bewilders me. The entire game is in an ocean and you don't even make a fucking Ocean Temple!? Tower of the Gods doesn't count, btw... Also, having a dungeon to go through after you blow up the door to see Jabu would have been fine. I was disappointed about that, I was expecting a bossfight or something to get the last pearl, but no! He just gives it to you...


Other than that, WW was amazing. People baaaaw over the cartoony graphics, but I loved the style, and PH made me want to cut myself.

[Anthus]

WW was a great game, it just needed a few things:

1. Sailing gets boring, fast. You can warp around, yes, but a lot of people never figured out that you actually can do that and you still have to spend way too long just doing fucking nothing. Fix it.

2. Too easy. Include a "Veteran" mode or something, even if it's like Metroid Prime where you have to beat the game on Normal first to unlock the harder mode.

3. Too short. Those rumored temples (Jungle and Ocean) being added to the sage quest would have been perfect. I mean, that just bewilders me. The entire game is in an ocean and you don't even make a fucking Ocean Temple!? Tower of the Gods doesn't count, btw... Also, having a dungeon to go through after you blow up the door to see Jabu would have been fine. I was disappointed about that, I was expecting a bossfight or something to get the last pearl, but no! He just gives it to you...


Other than that, WW was amazing. People baaaaw over the cartoony graphics, but I loved the style, and PH made me want to cut myself.

I agree with you, mostly. Sailing, however, didn't really bother me. Honestly, I thought it was more trouble changing the wind's direction then actually sailing.

Also, what is this "sage" quest you speak of? Is it real? Does it add anything at all? And yeah, Tower of the Gods hardly counts as a dungeon. Yes. I was also disappointed by Jabun just giving you the pearl. I also loved the graphics. Relatively speaking, it looks better than TP. Sure you have a few low-res textures, but TP uses muddy textures, and an awkward lighting system to perpetuate 'realism' and, though I do like the lighting, it looks weird. Character models however, are very well done. It sometimes looks odd seeing such well done models in such a low.. valued area.

Aaaaand Phantom Hourglass. Save for a few items, the graphics sucked. Talk about blocky. I see ZC newbies make better screens than Nintendo did there. Every time Link holds up an item, I wanted to puke. He is so poorly shaded, it looks terrible. Ick.

On the subject of graphics, if they do go with realism in the new Zelda, hopefully it'll be better since it is built from top to bottom on Wii.

[Nicholas Steel]

one thing I hate a lot in WW is how every fucking time you play a song, you have to listen to it again! before it does anything. (granted this applies to pretty much every 3d iteration of zelda)

[Anthus]

See, I really wish there was some way to play Wind's Requiem, and have it open some other thing allowing to to change the wind on the fly. That would have been sweet, and much quicker.

[aces2022]

No what would have been really kewl, is if the bird people somehow gave you some wings or SOMETHING, and when you played a certain song it blew the wind hard enough for you to fly instead of sailing.

[Dark Knight]

You'd be even more bored while flying. At least there are monster encounters of various sorts while sailing. The only hazard to you while flying would be those damn cyclones. Oh well. By the way...


But how do you get bigger than having moon from falling on Hyrule and destroying the planet but then getting four giants to push it back into orbit?

Majora's Mask doesn't take place in Hyrule. MM takes place in a parallel world known as Termina.

[AtmaWeapon]

Heaven forbid they try something unique in the hopes that people will enjoy it. Man, they should just give LoZ the MegaMan treatment and just change the color palette and sprites from time to time.

WW's combat system was the best they've made so far, and it's graphical presentation was superb. Scenes like the visit to Hyrule Castle are probably among the most dramatic and effective scenes I've seen in my gaming career.

Twilight Princess had the best graphical presentation and general plot ideas of the entire series so far. It was darker than Majora's Mask, the graphical presentation was very consistent, and more so than ever Hyrule felt like a real place with real people. The lack of voices was a major problem, and overall I feel like the games audio was really weak.

Phantom hourglass was fun. Lots of fun. It didn't feel like a Zelda game and it was very easy, but it was fun.

[aces2022]

You'd be even more bored while flying. At least there are monster encounters of various sorts while sailing. The only hazard to you while flying would be those damn cyclones. Oh well. By the way...



Majora's Mask doesn't take place in Hyrule. MM takes place in a parallel world known as Termina.

Well for the flying I'm just trying to say it would be a heck of alot faster and you wouldn't really think about random encounters so much. There could be flying fish but I geuss we all know where the idea would look like it came from. You could get swallowed up by a giant whale ..... no that's already been done.
Either way thanks for the info bout Termina.