USS New York

[Blisspath]

Check out what you can build with some scrap metal.
http://www.ussnewyork.com/index.html

[AtmaWeapon]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if it sinks to a kamikaze attack?

*edit*

I'm sure the brave souls lost fighting the invaders in the battle of the World Trade Center on September 11th are glad that a war machine was built in their honor. I know I'd just be pissed if I fought off hundreds of Al-Qaeda fighter jets with a stapler and some paper clips that all I got to honor my fight is some kind of glorified cargo ship instead of an aircraft carrier or submarine or something useful like a tugboat.

[Beldaran]

And yet, no replacement building.

[Daarkseid]

This reminded me of this commercial I've seen being played on History Channel, and I think CNN:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF3mzTpFCrU

[Russ]

Wow. To quote President Lincoln, "It is altgether fitting and proper that we should do this." That line was part of his Gettysburg Adress, where he set aside the area as a burial site for the soldiers who died there. Similarly, this ship will be the symbol representing the lives lost in the 9-11 attack, and how we fought back.


And yet, no replacement building.

Actually, they are going to build a new structure there. The tallest bulding in the complex will be Freedom Tower, measuring 1,776 feet tall, as an honor to the year we declared independence.

[Beldaran]

Actually, they are going to build a new structure there. The tallest bulding in the complex will be Freedom Tower, measuring 1,776 feet tall, as an honor to the year we declared independence.

I'm well aware of the plans. However, it's pretty ridiculous that they haven't built it yet.

[Rijuhn]

I'm well aware of the plans. However, it's pretty ridiculous that they haven't built it yet.


I work in construction and I am going to school for architecture, and I can tell you that it's not ridiculous to take this long for a skyscraper. Even the planning of neighborhoods can take a few years beginning with selecting the land and then finding architects that would find it worthwhile to develop some preliminary drawings, then getting the cities approval and all that legal crap, then finally the construction.

The Freedom Tower is going to be quite an impressive structure when it's completed, so it could still be a few more years before we see any real construction going on.

[phattonez]

I'm well aware of the plans. However, it's pretty ridiculous that they haven't built it yet.
There is a lot of construction going on.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=419362

[Beldaran]

I work in construction and I am going to school for architecture, and I can tell you that it's not ridiculous to take this long for a skyscraper. Even the planning of neighborhoods can take a few years beginning with selecting the land and then finding architects that would find it worthwhile to develop some preliminary drawings, then getting the cities approval and all that legal crap, then finally the construction.

The Freedom Tower is going to be quite an impressive structure when it's completed, so it could still be a few more years before we see any real construction going on.

You don't know what you're talking about.

They've started and completed several other large buildings in the area since 9/11. They haven't even started the "Freedom Tower". I read a huge article about how its all hung up in federal bureacracy and red tape.

It's completely ridiculous and a testament to government incompetence. Anyeone who says anything different has no clue what's going on there.

[phattonez]

I'm pretty interested in skyscraper construction (at least in LA), and Rijuhn is right on. Buildings take forever to get approved and then securing financing can just be a nightmare. I assume that with a project that has so much attention, just getting the building approved was probably near impossible.

[Beldaran]

Despite the fact that Breaker childishly gave me negative rep for knowing what I'm talking about, I am still correct.

[phattonez]

You ignore a guy who follows skyscraper construction and you ignore a guy who is actually in the construction business. Are you still sure that you know what you're talking about?

[Beldaran]

You ignore a guy who follows skyscraper construction and you ignore a guy who is actually in the construction business. Are you still sure that you know what you're talking about?

Despite the amazing credentials of two random dudes on the internet, one of whom actually did menial labor, I learned what I learned from an actual news source with quotes from academics and professionals.

You trust random people on the internet for your knowledge of public policy. Are you still sure that you know what you're talking about?

[phattonez]

Here's a nice example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_span_replacement_of_the_San_Francisco%E2%8 0%93Oakland_Bay_Bridge

There was a call for this project since 1989. Real proposals finally came in 1999. Construction started in 2002. It is scheduled to be finished in 2013. That's about 24 years for this whole process. Still think that the Freedom Tower is too slow?

And this project was nowhere near as scrutinized as the Freedom Tower will be.

[Beldaran]

Still think that the Freedom Tower is too slow?

Yes. (http://www.nypost.com/seven/07022008/news/regionalnews/wtc_fiascos_blame_game_118183.htm)

But hey, don't mind me. Just jam your fingers in your ears and pretend you know everything.

Oh by the way, if buildings take so long to build, how come the other non-government building that was destroyed was replaced with an even better one in like 2 years? It's because I was absolutely correct when I said the Freedom Tower is completely hamstrung by government bullshit.

But again, don't let the facts get in your way. Just keep on insisting that your random, unsubstantiated opinion is perfectly legitimate.

[phattonez]

I really don't even know what you're arguing anymore. You have pretty much no prior knowledge about skyscrapers and then claim that this is taking too long. Look at the history of the first world trade center. Planning started in 1961, it was finally completed in 1973. There is much more to go through today, and this is a huge project with immense scrutiny. What are you complaining about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_trade_center

[Beldaran]

Congratulations on making my point for me.

You keep posting government projects, which I am arguing are constantly FUBAR'd by the government.

The Empire State Building was designed in 2 weeks and built in one year.

So there. My point stands. You even helped make it for me. Congratulations. Now by all means, keep insisting that because I've never done menial labor for minimum wage that I can't know anything about buildings. Genius.

[Rijuhn]

You don't know what you're talking about.

They've started and completed several other large buildings in the area since 9/11. They haven't even started the "Freedom Tower". I read a huge article about how its all hung up in federal bureacracy and red tape.

It's completely ridiculous and a testament to government incompetence. Anyeone who says anything different has no clue what's going on there.

When I said "all that legal crap" I thought it was understood that I meant bureaucratic red tape. I didn't think it was necessary to elaborate. Of course it's going to take some time, because for one thing the "Freedom Tower" will be a a symbol and a memorial for many Americans.

The Empire State Building was completed in 1931 and it was based off of a previous design for the Carew Tower in Ohio, but two weeks does seem impressive. I've also forgot to mention I've worked at an architecture firm and have seen how projects get delayed for seemingly small reasons. In this day and age things are different, and the Freedom Tower is much more than just a large building.

[Daarkseid]

because for one thing the "Freedom Tower" will be a a symbol and a memorial for many Americans.


A bullshit jingoistic project symbolizing the success of the 9/11 attacks and the fear its brought out in us. Theres a large number of floors near the top that are empty, largely because people are afraid of another similar attack. Even the name is fucked up, "Freedom Tower", since the 9/11 attacks the Bush administration has made inroads against some of our freedoms for the sake of security.

The best solution would've been to meticulously clear out the debris following the attacks(to recover human remains), and then rebuild the WTC almost exactly as it was before the attacks, even better if we could've had it rebuilt quickly. Would be nice then to show Al-qaeda the totality of their "success" by rebuilding and moving on as before, though of course we would still have to impose the security restrictions for air flights and go after Al-qaeda's base of support(except Saudi Arabia because they have us by the testicles with our need for oil). But no, we get the "Freedom Tower".

EDIT: Well to give credit where its due, the design of the tower itself is rather impressive and much more interesting than the admittedly plain look of the old twin towers. I just really really find the title "Freedom Tower" distasteful.

[Trevelyan_06]

I think sadly what is most likely holding it up more than anything else is the fact that someone somewhere is trying to figure out how they can turn a profit on this project. I hate to be so damned cynical but given enough time I think America will come to view Patriot Day as just another holiday where are all the stores have good sales.

[phattonez]

Congratulations on making my point for me.

You keep posting government projects, which I am arguing are constantly FUBAR'd by the government.

The Empire State Building was designed in 2 weeks and built in one year.

So there. My point stands. You even helped make it for me. Congratulations. Now by all means, keep insisting that because I've never done menial labor for minimum wage that I can't know anything about buildings. Genius.
Where did you think that those problems for EVERY SINGLE SKYSCRAPER BUILT RECENTLY came from? This is why I eventually asked you what you are trying to prove. I thought that you were talking about the Freedom Tower taking too long comparatively to other towers.

And you really can't compare standards of the 1930s to the standards today. They still built brick buildings in Los Angeles back then.

[Breaker]

Despite the fact that Breaker childishly gave me negative rep for knowing what I'm talking about, I am still correct.

being correct means so much to you, doesn't it? what are you trying to overcompensate for.



But hey, don't mind me. Just jam your fingers in your ears and pretend you know everything.

sometimes I wonder if your cyber arrogance is one big practical joke, especially when you make statements like these that are so totally self-descriptive of yourself.