View Full Version : NeoFirst Development Diary

06-18-2008, 10:42 AM
Here's the deal: whenever I work on a particularly interesting section of NeoFirst, I'll post a description here. That way, nobody will think this quest's development is just slacking.

06-18-2008, 10:46 AM
Our hero, Link, lives in a treehouse in a dark forest with his mother. I'm sure you can all relate to his situation.


Who is his mother? Her name is Elena, and the reason she lives in a dark forest is because she's a sorceress soothsayer. And that's just what sorceress soothsayers do. Elena is named after a character in The Illearth War, by Stephen R. Donaldson, who was also a sorceress of sorts. Of course, that particular Elena was a daughter, not a mother. O well.

Link's father, like many video game heroes' fathers, is a Disappeared Dad (http://www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main.DisappearedDad). An outlandish rumour has it that the reason he never appears is because he's not human, but a faerie prince who had a brief mortal tryst.

(Well, it does explain the pointy ears...)

As the son of a sorceress, Link has access to a magical item right from the start of the game. That item is the Cross.

You'd better not lose it!

Just like in the games Phantom Hourglass and La-Mulana, Link can listen to the recently deceased. But not if you don't have this item - so remember to take it!

And also, Link owns a Bottle. It lets him carry water and sand that he finds in the game world... among other things.

But, one substance that Link is too polite to scoop up is his mother's Elixir Soup - his favourite meal.

No matter what you've done or where you've gone, she's always got a piping hot bowl waiting for you on every visit.

06-20-2008, 01:14 PM
The forest that Link lives in is the Mystic Forest, also known as the Cursed Forest. It was originally a small forest in the north, but a great crime by Princess Zelda's father offended the mightiest forest spirit so much that it made trees sprout forth all along the west edge of the map. Furthermore, anybody who cuts down these trees will be transformed into a Deku Scrub.

I... guess that's why they call it the Cursed Forest?

Nevertheless, some youngsters like to venture in to look at mushrooms and look for Minish.

What kinds of treasures are hidden deep in this forest? What secrets were buried under its spreading canopy when the trees rose up, all those years ago?


A question.

Nobody's home.

I wonder... would it be immoral to wish for an intact weapon shop?

06-23-2008, 11:49 AM

Ah, Placolyte. This marvellous item is distilled from magical flowers, and assists Link when he drinks it from his bottle. It may call forth memories of Picolyte, but Placolyte is a slightly different wonder.

The price is just right for something as nice as Placolyte!

Placolyte comes in two varieties: red and blue. As the red variety is more expensive, its effects are much more powerful than those of the blue variety. But that's not to say that the blue variety still isn't worthwhile.

You can tell that it's in effect because Link is surrounded by coloured sparkles.

What exactly does Placolyte do? Well, um, it is a secret. But rest assured that it is quite marvellous, and that I have completely implemented it. The only way to experience it is to use it yourself and see how it helps you.

But... it does do something, right?

06-23-2008, 01:56 PM
This is very nice _L_. Can't wait to see what the end result looks like.

06-27-2008, 09:10 AM
Recently this week I had an accident where two of the boss scripts I was working on recently were disturbingly deleted from all existence. It was a heart-wrenching situation that required my full attention, So, in lieu of a more tangible and elucidating update, I present the following exhibit: some dumb enemies that you'll have to reduce to ribbons.

Stalfos Knight
I wonder whether these piles of bones can be powderised with a hammer hit or a bomb blast.
Speaking of which, if you break their shields with your hammer, then they'll rise again with new shields. Clearly, the magic that animates them is quite capricious.

Patra Cross
It is my commitment that each non-scripted variety of Patra appears but once.

Healer Wizzrobe

Yes, it was that hooded fiend!
This final enemy's special ability may be obscure if you don't have the Hero's Charm.

06-28-2008, 07:35 AM
There are some kinds of Zelda Classic players who are willing to follow the immediate plot, perhaps even to the ends of the earth, without being given even a scrap of equipment. But many people are quite miffed if they don't get their hands on a sword within four screens of starting out. And that's quite understandable - a sword appears on the title screen, after all. It's advertised content.

But, it is a part of the prelude that Link pursues and confronts his first sword's absconders, and in doing so becomes involved in the greater conflict against the approaching chaos.

Fortunately, if one chooses, they can exclude the prelude altogether. I have provided a way to get a sword within four screens of the start!

But... it costs 45 rupees!

Of course, if they could just walk up and take it, then nobody would bother following the plot at all.

Ah... but surely in order to get 45 rupees you need to hunt assorted vermin for three-quarters of an hour? I want that sword now!

Fortunately, I have also provided a way to get 45 rupees within four screens of the start! And I didn't just hide it under the 23rd bush, either.

A completely legitimate business.

Such wealth! But is it really worth starting the adventure with only... two hearts?! And can you even trust this fellow?

But, with this much money, you could afford everything in that shop! You'd be able to start your adventure with a shield and a fishing line, not to mention a genuine sword that fires genuine sword beams. It's quite a temptation.

06-28-2008, 08:06 AM
Sweet. The HC exchange thing sounds awesome, and can add some nonlinearity.

Speaking of which, is the game going to take a linear path in terms of levels, or do you have to to the levels in a certain order?

06-28-2008, 12:42 PM
Why should the sword fire sword beams if it costs 45 rupees?

Also, what profit does the guy receive from loaning people rupees for collateral? Wouldn't there be a certain interest factor in it? Perhaps it should increase with each time the player saves the game? :p

06-28-2008, 11:49 PM
Why should the sword fire sword beams if it costs 45 rupees?Because it's the Wooden Sword! Also, money is much rarer in this quest than in others. Don't think you can just find it lying in the tall grass!

Also, what profit does the guy receive from loaning people rupees for collateral? Wouldn't there be a certain interest factor in it?
Indeed, I have in fact implemented a certain "interest factor". But for now can I slyly remind you about that time when I mentioned that the starting town is a hotbed for organised crime?

06-29-2008, 05:29 PM
A little back in posts, but for the talk of the Minish in the Mystic Forest, will the children call them "Minish," as they perfer to call themselves, or "Picori," as races from Hylian to Gerudo call them?

06-29-2008, 11:58 PM
You know, I've never really understood why each of those words were preferred by each race. Simply by looking at the prominent phonemes of the Minish's language (sample: "Pico riki poko ti po!") one would immediately assume that "Picori" was their native word for themselves. "Minish", on the other hand, is almost certainly rooted in the 'English' spoken by Hyruleans ('mini', 'diminished' etc).

So, to answer your question: they'll probably just call them "the tiny people" or something.

07-02-2008, 12:44 PM
Or the pleasant gnomes.
Neofirst is looking good so far, keep up the good work. But for the disappeared dad thing, can't we break away from the typical story and just say that he has a job elsewhere in the world and he seldom comes home? It seems a lot more interesting that way. Othre than that, I like it.

Yay. This is post numbre 400.

Aegix Drakan
07-02-2008, 01:28 PM
wow...this is lookin' pretty sweet so far...

I'm hyped.

07-02-2008, 11:01 PM
But for the disappeared dad thing, can't we break away from the typical story and just say that he has a job elsewhere in the world and he seldom comes home? It seems a lot more interesting that way. Othre than that, I like it.
Well, it serves as a convenient explanation for Link's immunity to the forest's curse, which is the reason why Zelda initially recruits him. But I don't intend it to be an intrusive detail.

07-05-2008, 08:01 AM
Today, allow me to present some minor enemy sprites that I have recently produced.

Blue Bubble

It makes much more sense that a water-coated skull should cure the curse laid by a fire-coated skull, don't you agree? ...Well, a bit more sense than that burning eye Moa thing that most of the popular tilesets currently use.

Armos with north-facing tiles

The Armos now has as many facings as First Quest's Armos. The fastest Armos is now blue rather than red. Remember that rule from First Quest: the toughest enemies are blue.


That verminous thief from the first dungeon of Zelda 2! But now his knife and armor are gone - replaced with the Goriya's tunic. Personally, I think it makes more sense considering his minimal HP and offensive power. But it'll be quite probable that this foe will appear in large quantities and move at high speed.

I'll call him Keaton, after a near-identical enemy in The Minish Cap.

Summoner Wizzrobe

A simple proposition: affix that crow's head to a Wizzrobe's robe, and apply an extra band of colour. Hopefully it will be sufficient to remind you of that fellow in the Wind Temple of The Wind Waker.

Shazza Dani
07-05-2008, 08:21 AM
Those summoners look a lot like the ones I made for Majora (from PureZC) -- except I used the BS Wizzrobe's body.

07-05-2008, 11:13 AM
The summoner sprites need a little bit of work, but otherwise, they're good.

07-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I'm hyped on this quest's features, but the overworld detail variety and design both look a little amateurish. Particularly in your post that begins with "Placolyte!"

Those grass tiles shouldn't repeat so much. I am of the opinion that old DoR is pretty ugly to begin with, but that's just me.

07-20-2008, 06:39 AM
The Lakeside Labyrinth is a 5th level dungeon designed by Phoenix. It only requires the Hookshot and one Bomb (or just the Flippers), and offers a slightly longer Hookshot in return. According to this fellow, it is "old, and apparently hasn't seen permanant inhabitants in a long time. ... Many areas of floor have given way, making liberal use of the hookshot required."

Moreover, Phoenix mandated a specific hookshot switch combo. What kind of switch, I thought, would be activated by a hook and chain, but obviously not by a wood boomerang or an arrow? What I designed was a simple metal cogwheel.

Hit the cogwheel to make the spikes begin their cycling.

And, from there, I decided to add several moving gear and chain decorations to the dungeon. These are presumably the mechanisms, formerly hidden under the tiles, that move the perpetually active spike traps that thwart Link in this labyrinth.

These small parts are quite noticable when animated.

The dungeon is already completed, though, and there isn't much room for gear-themed scripted traps to be added. But, I wonder...

07-20-2008, 01:46 PM
Wow, that looks really neat. I love all those gears.

And on a side note, POST 2500!

07-21-2008, 09:39 PM
I don't mind if you change up one of the more plainer rooms (as in, with just the spike trap things) to have a gear trap or something. I won't mind.

07-26-2008, 01:17 PM
Lately, I've been concerned with two things: making the Mystic Forest overworld area more interesting and challenging, and increasing the diversity of the enemy roster. And so, in meeting both of these concerns at a fork in the path, I constructed some quite simple scripted enemies to populate the leafy gloom.

Deku Baba

This fearsome flora is still in need of some garnishes, though. And, perhaps, a means to cut its stalk rather than attack its head? We'll see.


The classic Deeler, which attacks quickly from above, isn't like the more recent Skulltula, which seeks solely to block the player's path.

Also, just today I fulfilled an idea I had when out walking a few months ago. It concerned fields of tall grass, and their propensity for hiding lurking serpents. Now, Ropes that move into tall grass will conceal themselves - only a moving disturbance of the grass reveals their location.

Look sharp! There are two Ropes near Link in this picture.
They are, of course, easier to spot when animated.

07-27-2008, 07:01 PM
I am falling in love with this quest. You are amazing _L_.

08-02-2008, 07:58 AM
The Ocean Labyrinth is a slightly hard dungeon whose entrance looks out to a placid ocean. It's one of the 'nostalgia dungeons' I added to the quest. When you step inside, you gradually notice something: it's a recreation of the first level from Third Quest!

The inner entrance room is a bit more oceanic, though.

As you can see, the main theme of this dungeon is skeletal. Salt-encrusted skeletons and flaming skulls grind along its halls. Maybe it was a pirate's hideout? Well, I can't say. And, since Stalfos have a habit of rising again from their battered bones, I've reduced their numbers somewhat. Fortunately for them, their sword beams still sting as much as always.

Continuing the theme: instead of a large emissary of red and blue Goriyas, you will instead encounter trios of skeleton Goriyas. Skeleton Goriyas?

They don't throw bone-merangs (http://www.psypokes.com/dex/techdex/155), if you're wondering.
When you bash these bony badgers down, they bounce back up before you know it! This may cause a calamity for little boys who don't have sharp metal swords just yet.

Incidentally, this dungeon also contains an opportunity to make use of the Bottle that Link's mother insisted he take. You can use it in conjunction with something in the environment to defeat a long-hated, nigh-invincible foe.

I suppose you wish that this trick was available in the remaining dungeons of Third Quest.

And, on a different note, I also suppose you're wondering who the dark lord of this dark hole is, hmm?

The dungeon boss is... a neglectful parent.
Now isn't the time to hope that they'll imprint upon you as their mother. Those nearby bones support the hypothesis that it won't work. But look hopeful: you know what they say about dragons and treasure...

08-02-2008, 01:54 PM
Seriously, you are doing a great job with this project. I can't wait to play this thing. Wow.

08-07-2008, 09:40 AM
Sometimes, life just isn't fair and decent on a small child. Consider, for instance, what might befall you out in the sunny outdoors, through no fault of your own. Just skipping down an empty road through our wild kingdom, with a purse full of green rocks and a song in your heart containers.

Then, like a crack of a whip, a voice!

Bandits rush in from offscreen!

W-where's the police? ...They died. It's up to you alone to save your bacon!

I think poor old Link deserves an explanation. You see, one of the great plagues afflicting Hyrule are the many thieves and bandits traveling its roads and hiding in its dungeons, directed by an ominous figure called the King of Thieves. Some such criminals have even infiltrated our dear Hyle Town!

Of course, it won't do to just describe the vileness that these creatures perpetrate on innocent swordsboys and postmen. To really feel for the threat, the players themselves must also be victimised. And so: occasional random ambushes along the roads and meadows!

These strikes aren't entirely random, though. Would it not be sensible to assume that you'd be more likely to be attacked if your hearts were low? And if you had a large stash of rupees on your person? Mm-hmm. I'd think so too.

08-07-2008, 10:40 AM
You see, one of the great plagues afflicting Hyrule are the many thieves and bandits traveling its roads and hiding in its dungeons, directed by an ominous figure called the King of Thieves.

Is the King of Thieves a certain boss from ALTTP by chance?

Also, this quest is looking really interesting so far, especially the Deelers from AoL. Keep it up!

08-07-2008, 10:47 AM
The King of Thieves, from the "plan," (I have no idea how much it's been changed by now.) is really just a merchant who sells you lockpicks. They're the equivalent of keys, but can be used in any dungeon.

08-07-2008, 09:54 PM
Actually, various ordinary thieves are lockpick merchants. The King of Thieves, conversely, has a perchant for fighting, and supposedly holds a most Magical Key. (But maybe he has something else... something more important.) He also might or might not have an underling called the Prince of Thieves, who furthermore may or may not just be a palette-swap. But more on him later!

EDIT: Oh! You were thinking of Blind the Thief. That sounds a tad fitting. Maybe he will be vaguely reminiscent of that boss.

08-09-2008, 01:35 AM
I like the idea of ambushes! Once you defeat the King of Theives, will the ambushes stop?

09-02-2008, 12:18 AM
Hello. I'd like to apologise for the break in diary entries. I've been working on several aspects simultaneously (that is to say: adding plot-related signposts to Level 1, scripting some bottle interactions, customising enemies) but have brought none to a state where I can display them with vigor. Please remain steadfast until another week passes.

And, to answer your question: yes! Good idea.

09-03-2008, 05:05 AM
Nice! And once you finish the touches on the first level, I really want to play it to see what and how it changed. Either way, this quest is sounding very good. :)

09-07-2008, 01:37 AM
When Link acquires the Red Candle, he gains the ability to produce fire. Such a power should not be wielded idly! Certainly, it is necessary to check many suspiciously coloured shrubs for secret passages. But do be careful when you're in that tall grass!

Hey! Is that the Red Candle? Put it away!

As you may remember from a certain multiplayer Zelda game, tall grass is surprisingly flammable, especially when whipped up by a spring breeze. If a flame weapon of either Link's or a monster's should land on those stalks, they'll be set ablaze before you can say "Joan of Arc".

Oh no! Link! What have you done?

And what's worse is that the fire will spread to any adjacent tall grass combos as well! O my!

Now this is just not cool.

(The "burnt grass" combos aren't quite finalised yet.)

The flames hurt both enemies and boys, as it is equivalent to Link's candlefire. ...! Maybe there's a puzzle somewhere in the world that requires a blaze spreading along a line of grass?

In closing: only you can prevent, um, this sort of thing.

09-07-2008, 09:29 AM
L...I...need....that...script. 0_o *stares*

Artisticly, the only thing I'd change would be the grass around the trees. Far too blocky, in my opinion.

Aegix Drakan
09-07-2008, 11:47 AM
good gravy, L! You've outdone yourself!

....oh gosh, this reminds me of that one time in D&D when I cast a fireball in a forest... >_< My friend never let me forget it.

09-07-2008, 01:01 PM
Wow, I've been checking out some of the new stuff on here and other places and I must say that the capabilities of this program has grown by leaps and bounds since it began. And you are showing off some really impressive stuff here _L_. I really like the inclusion of some of the Z2 enemies, nice to see more stuff being used from the black sheep of the Zelda series; could a version of the Daira, the axe weilding lizardman, be made that could slash with its axe? Using ZScript or otherwise? That could make for a really dangerous melee foe.

Keep up the good work, sir, I look forward to seeing more!

09-07-2008, 01:32 PM
The flames hurt both enemies and boys
How is this possible?
I thought you couldn't make an LWeapon or an EWeapon that damaged both Link and enemies?

09-07-2008, 02:10 PM
Holly crud that's amazing! How on earth do you manage to do all this stuff?

09-07-2008, 03:55 PM
Why, Link? WHY?

This script looks intriguing. It would be interesting to just burn things with the Red Candle. I have a question, however. Will this be applied to "Bush" combos as well?

Now this quest is getting even more interesting... speaking of which, I almost didn't find that hidden level in "Mystic Forest" with the candle in the last demo. So that's where Roc's Feather is... in the level I still have nightmares about.

09-07-2008, 11:29 PM
How is this possible?
I thought you couldn't make an LWeapon or an EWeapon that damaged both Link and enemies?

Well, you could always generate both.

09-08-2008, 01:11 AM
How is this possible?
I thought you couldn't make an LWeapon or an EWeapon that damaged both Link and enemies?

[ ] Link Isn't Hurt By Own Fire Weapons
[X] Link's Bombs Hurt Link

09-08-2008, 11:40 AM
I almost didn't find that hidden level in "Mystic Forest" with the candle in the last demo. So that's where Roc's Feather is... in the level I still have nightmares about.

Last demo? I only remember there being one.
Link, please! :D

09-08-2008, 02:04 PM

This is the Miniboss quest he had. It's old, and hasn't been updated for a long time, but it's the most recent demo. As well, it's unpassworded, allowing you to change where you'll start.

09-08-2008, 02:38 PM
[ ] Link Isn't Hurt By Own Fire Weapons
[X] Link's Bombs Hurt Link

Pretty obvious then really.

09-28-2008, 10:14 AM
As you might already know, the player has the ability to use their bottle to scoop up water and sand from the environment and use it as they please. There are some creatures and traps in this world that can be slain outright by one or both of these substances. Fireball shooters, for example.

And let's wash away these slimy slimes, too. Tra la la...

There are some enemies, however, which react in much stranger ways to water and sand. Let's look at a few of these cases now.

* Water Gels are not as afraid of pure water as their slimy cousins! They will merely drink it up and grow much larger.

* Bubble enemies are protected from your weapons by magical fire. Douse the magical fire, and they become vulnerable, hopping madly to escape their fate.

* As an act of generousity, something wonderful happens when Red Bubbles are doused - they transform into Blue Bubbles, which can cure Link of the Red Jinx. So remember this when you spy a roomful of Red Bubbles - they may become the means to curing your jinx as well as inflicting it.

* It is often believed that only Magic Powder is capable of transforming the Bubble enemies into Fairies. In truth, any kind of powder is sufficient. Of course, your bottle can only carry a single scoop of sand, so you'd better be careful when you throw it.

To summarise, here is an incomplete list of interactions:


Hey! What of those final two equations? They are quite telling. If you have an empty bottle, you can indeed scoop up a Gel enemy to receive Gelly.

Blue Gelly is merely water. Green Gelly, on the other hand, is a stinky oily substance that restores magical power when ingested very quickly. Just... try not to think about where it's been! And there is quite possibly another variety of Gelly that you can obtain.


And, if you're wondering about the Forest Temple's progress, rest assured that it's all proceeding as planned. Here's an obtuse, ambiguous screenshot to prove it!


10-02-2008, 03:28 PM
Cool. Kind of like the Chuchus from TP, then?

10-03-2008, 02:55 AM
In a way, yes.

Something I'd also like to point out: All of the non-harmless Gels in this quest are Tribbles. In previous quests the Gel Tribbles were designed to be indirect sources of magic power, due to their self-replenishing nature and surety of dropping Magic Decanters. In this quest, the item drop "middleman" is cut out - you simply scoop up a single Gel, and it restores all of your magic power.

10-09-2008, 09:33 AM
Hello! I was playing a game recently. A game starring a character called Kirby. In Kirby's Adventure Kirby has two fire abilities - a 'Fire' ability, where Kirby breathes fire, and a 'Burning' ability, where Kirby becomes a fireball. In Kirby Super Star, the game that I was playing, there was just one 'Fire' ability that contained the Fire and Burning abilities in a single unit.

It was in this vein that I was visited with a thought. What if Link's powers were like this? The many Zelda games have featured several variations of the hookshot, among them the Clawshot, the Switch Hook, the Grappling Hook, and the classic Hookshot. What if Link was given a Hookshot that was all of these hookshots at the same time?

...Well, I haven't managed that magnificent feat. But do read on, please!

Some of Link's standard weapons have been given secret abilities. Much as the Bow in Link's Awakening had the secret ability to produce a Bomb Arrow, so too do some of Link's weapons in NeoFirst.


(Of course, you can probably guess what the button is, given the limitations of ZScript.)

There is, currently, at least one more item with a secret ability. This number is bound to increase!

All of these abilities are available from the very moment Link lifts up the item. But there are two important aspects to consider. Firstly, they are entirely unnecessary to completing the adventure. There will never be a puzzle that must be solved with the Switch Hook. At the most, they will provide means of making existing puzzle solutions easier, or means of sequence-breaking.

And, secondly, the means of activating these abilities will never be revealed within the quest, much as the means of loosing a Bomb Arrow in Link's Awakening was never uttered by any character. The only official indication of their existence is by either reading NeoFirst's script code, or by reading this very forum post. That being said, I have spoken enough of this matter.

10-09-2008, 11:27 AM
So it's essentially the Switch Hook from OoA? This ought to be... interesting, but is the Fishing Line going to be a seperate item, then? Whenever I tried to clear the forest temple, I had to use cheats since the hookshot would fish for boots at certain points which prevented you from clearing the chasms inside. Anyway, you're doing a good job with this quest _L_, keep it up!

10-10-2008, 12:54 PM
Awesome! The hookshot and switch hook in one! Any hints as to the other items that do this?

Nicholas Steel
10-10-2008, 07:37 PM
_L_ you do know that in Links Awakening there is a "a piece of heart" puzzle that requires the bomb arrow? nothing else can solve the puzzle. another example of a similar secret would be in LttP, bombing over the ledge in Ganons Fortress is undocumented but REQUIRED if you want to reach that secret.

You are suggesting some features that are not REQUIRED for anything and instead just used for sequence breaking and making stuff easier.

10-12-2008, 11:07 AM
another example of a similar secret would be in LttP, bombing over the ledge in Ganons Fortress is undocumented but REQUIRED if you want to reach that secret.Not quite true. The Pegasus Boots knockback (which is much more evident to the player) works just as well.

Awesome! The hookshot and switch hook in one! Any hints as to the other items that do this?Well, do any other possibilities immediately spring to mind?

I'd quite like to add an extra purpose to the Power Glove - something that, amazingly enough, does not involve lifting - but whether or not it would be a secret ability is another matter.

10-25-2008, 04:55 AM
Previously, I revealed the existence of secret abilities that various weapons have concealed within themselves - abilities so secret that the player may never encounter them in the game at all.

This next technique is not one of those secret abilities. It is, in fact, something that the player will be expected to discover, by accident or by word-of-mouth, if they want to uncover certain lost treasures or pathways.

But, this technique is also inspired by the ingenious Bomb Arrow technique from Link's Awakening, in that it involves the combination of two seemingly unrelated items in a marvellous fashion.

And so, let me reveal the not-so-secret to setting your own arrows on fire:


It may not make much sense in the real world, but in the abstract videogame land of Zelda Classic, where boomerangs can grab objects, and flames and arrows are about the same size, the player can easily accept it.

Also, the land of Zelda Classic contains obvious distinctions between active objects (enemies and weapons, which move around and vanish when you change screens) and passive objects (that is, combos). Thus, I believe the player will accept that their arrows can interact with 'active fire' (Link's fire weapon) but not with 'passive fire' (torch combos).

Hey! D-don't tell me it works for bombs, too!

I wonder what you'd be capable of if you used Remote Bombs...

10-25-2008, 05:13 AM
OMG I love you. That gives me so many puzzle ideas... I really hope Neofirst still is unpassworded when it comes out, as I could use some of these scripts with my ideas too. ;_; That is genius!

10-26-2008, 08:28 PM
Ever played Bowmaster Prelude? Whoo-hoo, a bomb arrow! Urgh, I need a demo... to go on... *collapses*

Seriously though, this is a whole new dimension as far as Zelda Classic goes! I am going to be enticed by the scripts in this quest...

Nicholas Steel
10-27-2008, 12:10 AM
Not quite true. The Pegasus Boots knockback (which is much more evident to the player) works just as well.
that does not work in the PAL release of the game. facing right, start charging, face up, bounce but never go over the black pit... (that or you fell short) it was the first thing i tried oh so many years ago! I never worked it out until many years later that bombs was the key.

11-23-2008, 12:48 PM
I can assure you all that you will be able to play through the first Triforce dungeon again soon. Very little remains awaiting refurbishment.

And among those few tasks is the finalisation of some newly assembled enemies to populate this bizarre building. Permit me to reveal several such creations to you:

Flying Book

Flying books! The spells inside these tarnished tomes must be motivating the books to take to the air. These ensorceled volumes are bound in even-harderback, so your sword and boomerang won't injure them very effectively. But remain unconcerned: a mortal fear of dampness dissuades these abberations from ever appearing outdoors.

...What did you say? Cheat codes? I don't know what you mean! You must be thinking of another game!

Stum & Stumclops

These ugly wooden perils are the undead corpses of once-grand trees, now uprooted and wandering in anguish. Their offensive abilities are minimal, but their thick bodies are tremendously unyielding to attacks. You'd have to slice one at least 32 times before it'd cease its sorrowful strolls.

Fortunately, as you may have noticed, the variety known as Stumclops has a single feeble eye atop it. This might be a secret place where the landing of a single strike will fell the fiend!

But, as you can see, it is incapable of being struck by Link's horizontal attacks. Is there a vertical attack that Link can use against it?

(This may sound crazy, but I'm more interested in seeing if Stum's eyeless face could possibly serve as a makeshift platform, if Link could only leap upon it...)

Green Stalfos

A Stalfos wearing the tunic and hood it wore in life. Why is that restless spirit inhabiting these bones still? ...You can't help but wonder if this is what lies in Link's future, should he fall victim to the dungeon's dangers.

...Such an uncommon bestiary. An auspicious dungeon should contain thematic obstacles and threats, no?

11-23-2008, 03:03 PM
Woot Banjo-Kazooie Cheat code book? :p

11-23-2008, 07:38 PM
Huh, so it's kind of a "haunted nature" feel. That seems pretty interesting, but where do the books come from? That last enemy seems ever eerie however, I wonder where they'll come in. Maybe just a trap in the forest to "spook" Link? Plus at this point the poor boy is a bit chicken-hearted, I'm guessing, so Link is not conquering his fears the easy way. There are some interesting enemies, and I'm looking forward to being able to play through the first level!

12-25-2008, 04:06 AM
I played Mother 3 recently, and one lesson that I learned from it is this: if I am going to use save points in NeoFirst, then I will need a lot of save points. And in order to have lots of save points, I will need to make the save points small and easily insertable into various different locations. So, I began a search for a standard save point design - one that would fit in cramped tunnels, gloomy forests, elegant dungeons and pristine wilderness.

In Mother 3, the save points are frogs. Thus, they are small, innoculous, and are quickly recognisable without being visually dominating. I wanted something less arbitrary than frogs, though. Instead of an animal or device, I wanted some sort of abstract symbol that would come to represent 'saving' to the player.

Then, I thought of Super Mario World. As you know, the level goals of this game resemble football goalposts, and this motif is carried over to the Chargin' Chuck enemy. The use of a sports analogy makes a lot of sense for a save point, as both are purely mechanical elements of their respective games. This led me to deciding NeoFirst's save point:


In Cricket, the wicket is functionally similar to Baseball's bases (http://sportsexplained.net/sports/baseball/cricket.html). It is, however, much more visually distinct. While I'm not all that familiar with the laws of Cricket, my appropriation of the wicket into NeoFirst represents a place where Link is 'safe'. When Link is near a wicket, he's safe, but when he's running between wickets, he's in danger of losing his progress. The game of NeoFirst can thus be thought of as a long chain of wickets, with the space between each forming an 'atom' of gameplay.

But you're arching your brow and thinking, "This doesn't seem very fantasylike! Where's the sparkly ring of unexplained magical energies that 'normal' games use for save spots? Shouldn't there be some half-baked explanation about 'recording your memories' or something? And how does it make sense that these wickets are installed all over Hyrule?"

My rationale is that these wicket savepoints do not alter the mood of a screen or area in the same way that a ring of sparkles would when placed in a dusty, faded cavern or somesuch. Furthermore, a wicket is only an anachronism when we interpret it as a Cricket element - it is, after all, just 3 two-foot wood poles, with two sticks resting on them. For all we know, there could be an entirely different significance to wickets in NeoFirst's Hyrule - but, so as not to draw attention to them, no explicit explanation shall be given.

As you can see, the wicket can easily adapt to match its surroundings.

12-29-2008, 01:43 AM
(3 days later)

That's excellent. I'm really liking the graphic you chose for the save points. And, yes, I'd have to agree that more save points is desirable.

12-30-2008, 05:41 AM
I am truly in love with this quest _L_! I have just become an ultimate fan of this. I can't get enough of it! I just can't for this to be finished ;-)

Nicholas Steel
02-02-2009, 12:06 AM
_L_ you do know that in Links Awakening there is a "a piece of heart" puzzle that requires the bomb arrow?
It has come to my attention after watching a video of this game, that there is a wall you can blow up to access a way to blow up the block without the use of bomb arrows >.>

02-02-2009, 07:23 AM
Yes, I have noticed that all of the images I've posted in this thread have died. Please rely on your memories until this is rectified.

02-03-2009, 01:03 AM
Yes, I have noticed that all of the images I've posted in this thread have died. Please rely on your memories until this is rectified.

It's not just the images that are broken. It seems the download link I can find for this quest is dead as well.

Looking forward to taking a look at it.

02-20-2009, 04:00 AM

As you might be aware, these extravagant self-illuminated engravings appear in a few places in Hyrule. But what do they do? What is their purpose?

The answer is that they are Warp Rings - magical teleporters created many years ago to transport goods, arms and people to and from Hyrule's towns and strongholds.

In order to make use of these devices, one needs to carry on their person a Warp Coin!

They look a bit like badges.

These are the Temple Warp Coin (leading to the Temple of Light), the Castle Warp Coin (leading to southwest of Hyrule Castle), the Abbey Warp Coin (leading to the Forest Abbey) and the Palace Warp Coin (leading to the Eastern Palace).

Link receives two Warp Coins when he begins his quest: the Castle Warp Coin, and the Temple Warp Coin. However, he loses the Temple Warp Coin soon after using it. Tsk! I hope he can get it back somehow.

Step into the Warp Ring's inner circle to transport your molecules to the next Ring. The order of the Rings is this: Castle -> Abbey -> Palace -> Temple -> Castle. If you lack a Coin for a destination, then you will skip over it and proceed to the next.

But be warned... these teleporters were not designed for children, and even a very healthy child is likely to suffer transitory dizziness after using a Warp Ring.

02-20-2009, 10:49 AM
So THAT'S what those odd circles are for! Never would've guessed! I'm guessing you find each Warp Coin in their respective place, right? Well, except for the Temple Coin.

02-20-2009, 12:37 PM
Awesome. How long do the dizziness last after you step out of it?

04-30-2009, 01:54 AM
Hey _L_ hows that super duper secret weapon coming along =)

04-30-2009, 04:13 AM
Which one?


Just fine, thanks. Still buggy.

04-30-2009, 09:52 AM
Note to self: Find super duper secret weapon... whatever it may be...

12-29-2009, 11:47 AM
Most slain enemies, in addition to Rupees, drop one of these two items: a healing fairy, the time-limited invincibility Clock, and the Kill All Enemies item that kills all enemies when you collect it. However, for extra variety, I've added a few special status items to the mix.


What's unexpected is that only some enemies can drop these items, and the colour of the enemy determines what sort of item it has the potential to drop.

Green enemies are the only ones that can drop a Guardian Acorn, which doubles your defense and lasts until you change screens 8 times.

Only Red enemies are capable of dropping a Piece of Power, which adds 2 to your melee attack power and lasts until you change screens 8 times.

Blue enemies, the strongest and least generous of all, simply drop a Bomb Flower, providing one extra bomb. This may seem almost without merit, but it is the only occasion that enemies will drop bomb ammunition! For most of the game, you must ration your bombs carefully and restock through regrowing bomb flowers or the many shopkeepers. Consider this item drop to be a mild relief to your resources.

This works out pretty well because Green and Red enemies tend to appear in safer areas of the game, and in tougher places most only Red and Blue enemies will appear, so the Guardian Acorn won't be present to assist your endurance. Also, Guardian Acorns are bound to be helpful near the beginning of the game when your health is low, but would provide altogether too much protection when coupled with the Blue Mail or Red Mail.

I'm considering, also, the possibility of including spell items that, when used, consume magic to grant you a defense or offense bonus for only the current screen. Well, it's not like there are too many uses for the magic meter at present...

12-29-2009, 11:49 AM
Bait? Isn't that the most useless of equippable items?!

Yes, except in this game! For bait now has a use!

As you know, recovery hearts don't appear normally in NeoFirst, due to Link possessing his regenerative Heart Ring. But sometimes you just need a quick boost of vitality. Refuse to believe it if you must, but laid-down bait can be consumed by enemies - and when that happens, you're rewarded with a heart!

"The way to a Moblin's heart is through his stomach."

And there it is!

However, youngling, know that enemies won't devour bait twice in succession! Furthermore, feeding an enemy has the effect of increasing their HP! So deploying bait is a slightly risky proposition.

It's likely, quite likely, that certain enemies may have different reactions to bait than others. I will, however, tell of one enemy that has a particularly unique reaction to bait.

Feed this duck for the first time in a game, and it will drop a Bomb Bag.

This is known as "turning a bit of lame Castlevania trivia into Zelda canon."

By the way, Bomb Bags work a bit differently in NeoFirst. They function like Missile Tanks or Heart Containers - acquiring one increases your Bomb capacity by 4. Thus, they can be hidden in roughly the same manner that Pieces of Heart Containers can be hidden.

12-29-2009, 12:20 PM
Once the Forest Abbey has been done and dusted, and a three-pointed item of yellowish hue has been obtained, you must move on to the next level! But it's perched atop a high peak, which was formerly known as Mt. Frostburn, but is now given the slightly more fearsome and rhyming name of the Fire Spire.

But, to even begin to climb the Spire requires some further exploration!


The vine-clad walls leading up the mountain is blocked with trees and a boulder. The boulder can't be passed unless it is pushed three times. At this point, Link doesn't possess the means to push a boulder more than once! This is a troubling obstacle.

Link has two paths available to him.

First, he could learn or discover the secret path across the Endless Desert, learn the secret to awakening the Armos Knight, and claim the Power Bracelet resting beneath it.

I think the secret involves water... that's right, isn't it?

Or!! There is a more straightforward possibility. He could find and venture through the hidden entrance to the dungeon beneath the cemetery, known as Life's End. This dungeon has an exit above the foothills that leads past the boulders. But can Link withstand the dungeon's obstacles?

Life's End is full of darkness, skeletons...

...and bottomless pits.

This dungeon is a drain on your still-limited resources! Most all of its rooms are dark, requiring use of your recently claimed magic-consuming Red Candle. And once you've learned that the secret of permanently inconveniencing the reviving skeletons is to use bombs, you'll find yourself running short of those, too. Perhaps a brief sojourn in search of a spare Magic Container or Bomb Bag might be a useful preparation?

12-30-2009, 03:15 AM
News has just reached my ears! Your hookshot has more capabilities than just pulling you toward wooden objects and bewildering various enemies. You can also use it to steal enemies' projectile weapons!

Use the hookshot to grab enemies' pointy sticks, even as they fly at you!

When your hook snags a pointy stick, it gets pulled toward you, safe and unbroken, and it goes straight into your arrow stockpile. Reclaimed ammunition! (...But is it a spear or an arrow? Well, it's a pretty small spear, if it is so.)

This means that these enemies are suddenly useful for helping you resupply your arrows. It's a pretty useful technique! Let's hope that these enemies show up in dungeons when you need them.

And this isn't the only kind of weapon that can be seized with the hookshot!


You... you surely can't grab the bombs that these Octobombs are spitting... can you?

Maybe you can! It's risky engaging these enemies, though, as their bombs take off 4 hearts per hit and cannot be stopped by any shield! Oof! Better wait until you've found some defensive attire.

And, there's one particularly cheeky trick you can pull on a certain foe.

This is the only way to obtain a boomerang in this game!

Yes, you can steal the Goriyas' weapons, right from the moment that they appear! Once you've snagged a boomerang, it's yours for the rest of the game. But be careful not to use it on Goriyas - they've learned how to snatch speeding boomerangs with their bare hands, and they'll just nab yours, causing you to lose it. Best engage them with another weapon!

12-30-2009, 05:03 AM
Okay, that's just brilliant. Makes me wish I'd thought of it first!

12-30-2009, 09:17 AM
I think that the very last sentence of L's last post was by far the most brilliant of them all. I have no idea how you managed to script that, but then again, you're L, so...

12-30-2009, 07:50 PM
I think that the very last sentence of L's last post was by far the most brilliant of them all. I have no idea how you managed to script that, but then again, you're L, so...

I know exactly how he did it, and... again, I'm green with envy

12-31-2009, 12:49 AM
I don't take pains to be overly mysterious. What you do is:
* Set their Boomerang Defense to 'Ignore'.
* In the global script, if an LW_BRANG has a Collision() with an NPC whose Weapon is WPN_ENEMYBRANG, then destroy the LW_BRANG, set Link->Item[I_BRANG1] to false, and play some sort of sound effect.

Aegix Drakan
01-21-2010, 01:07 PM
......holy carpal tunnel syndrome.

So much win. Stealing ammo? Useful bait? PIECES OF POWER AND GUARDIAN ACORNS?!?!?! Some serious awesomeness here!

Honestly, the power pieces and acorns were part of what I LOVED about Link's awakening. Sometimes, you'd get lucky and find a powerup and then BAM, you're running around kicking all kinds of ass.

01-24-2010, 03:14 AM
Let's have a look at a few more items and bosses!

Protection Ring
The Protection Ring appeared in the Oracle games, and its behaviour has passed unchanged into this game. Its black heart shines with the allure of danger, and it is indeed a dangerous ring - all damage done to Link with do exactly one heart. This means that the weakest enemies do double damage, and the slightly strong enemies do half damage. Since there are so many more weaker enemies than there are strong enemies, this may not seem at all beneficial! However, the Protection Ring comes into its own when Link seizes the Blue Mail. Suddenly, every attack in the game deals a mere half-heart to Link!

But be warned - the Protection Ring can only be claimed early in the game, when Link possesses 5 heart containers or less!

And, you'll have to find the cave in which it is hidden in the first place...

Queen of Hearts
Off with her head! This mobile statue of a heartbroken monarch who met a tragic end is similar to an Armos Knight, except that it drops a trail of hearts and anti-hearts (henceforth known as "hurts") as it hops. It waits in the same dungeon as the Protection Ring, but guards a different treasure.

Grab the red, avoid the black! What an odd boss!

Bee Smoker
A canister that wafts pacifying clouds of smoke. You receive this at the very beginning of the game! It's not at all useful for combat against most foes (certain specific insects excepted), but one shouldn't overlook its ability to cloud the vision of certain devices and monsters!

Blow smoke on fireball statues and they won't be able to aim their fireballs at Link!

This irritable arachnocrustacean can't aim its fireballs if it can't see Link through the smoke.

And this Chaser Trap can't see Link either, and it doesn't have the temperament to make wild guesses.

One of the easier bosses to implement. It's a cloud of unrepentant evil with an eye for causing pain. It is, however, cowardly to the extent that it imprisons itself in a huge tomb of ice. It's so dense that only Din's Fire has the heat to melt it down!

If you don't have the firepower, you'll just have to take another route.

Sand Wand
Direct from a certain video game, this wand causes a pillar of sand to rise up from the sand it is waved over! These pillars do not naturally disappear, so you need to use your trusty Hammer to get rid of them. It's not the most useful of magical artifacts, but its abilities can improve certain combat situations for you!

Use the Sand Wand to flip over these tenacious headless turtles!

Create sand pillars to block the path of the flames of this particularly dangerous dragon!

Incidentally, I've implemented some subtle mechanical differences between this and the original NES games. Solid terrain now blocks the movement of boomerangs, arrows and fire, much like in the later Zelda games. However, magical attacks such as sword beams and Wizzrobe spells will still penetrate.

Push the block to decrease the range of the fire, so you can close in with the sword! A block-pushing boss battle?

01-24-2010, 10:51 PM
Very nice!

This quest will surely be amazing. Any indication of how far it is in development?

01-25-2010, 12:39 AM
Haha, I love it! The sand rod is certainly one of the more unique items I've seen in a Zelda game, so it pleases me to no end to see it here too.

Edit: Also, I notice the boss health meter. Perhaps you could move the play-time to the active subscreen, and stick the boss meter there? :)

02-26-2010, 09:31 AM
The road to Level 2.

02-26-2010, 07:37 PM
I see that you implemented the Hoopster from Super Mario Brothers 2! Nice work!

03-08-2010, 12:47 AM
How far into this game are you by now? The things you're doing are amazing, but is it ever going to be complete?

03-11-2010, 07:07 AM
If I work pretty consistently, then with luck I will be finished within 10 months.


03-14-2010, 04:34 AM
The Fire Spire is the epitome of the term "awesome".

03-14-2010, 05:51 PM
It looks like the epitome of 'movement is so restricted you will want to tear your eyes out if you spend longer than 2 minutes there' to me...

03-15-2010, 03:14 AM
Err, close enough.

03-15-2010, 04:05 AM
If I work pretty consistently, then with luck I will be finished within 10 months.


Now you know I have to ask this....

Does this mean that quest builders are going to be sitting on their hands for another 10 months waiting for a stable build to use with their quests, while you finish yours to release with the new version?

03-15-2010, 04:59 AM
I'm the only one working on this. Meanwhile, ZC is being worked on by six people. So it stands to reason that ZC 2.5 will be released well before this quest is done.

(That I have managed to be the most consistently productive developer while simultaneously developing this quest may or may not just be an incidental detail. In fact, I might suggest that there is causation here - having a quest of my own is a highly effective motivation for me to continue supporting ZC day in and day out, and there is a not inconsiderable mound of bugs which I have found only through developing this quest.)

03-16-2010, 06:13 AM
I would have called it the fire phallus. :P

03-21-2010, 02:15 AM
But then it wouldn't rhyme!

03-23-2010, 02:08 AM
Alright fair enough.What about the name to rest of the entrances?
-The Fire Spire.
-The Earth Berth.
-The Wind ..uhh.. Rescind.
-The Water ...hrm.. orange?

Also I would like to request a Dark Fortress. Every Adventure game should have a Dark Fortress.
..Actually that's a good idea for a game. It'd be like the sims, but instead of hanging out in the hot tub you'd do stuff like hollow out volcanoes for evil lairs, recruit henchmen, put a laser on the moon, and build vehicles that burrow through the ground. Cool! -The new Dark Fortress downloadable content just came out today: The Biological Weapon expansion pack! lol.

06-01-2010, 07:36 AM



More substantial entry later.

06-14-2010, 01:01 AM
I just went through this thread and seen some more of the progress. I just wanted to say it still looks great, and I (and many others I'm sure) am looking forward to it. It'll definitely be different kind of monster than what anyone is used to.

10-05-2010, 03:31 AM
Sorry about being silent for 3 months. I have done plenty of stuff but it's not quite ready to unveil yet. In place of a proper post, have a look at these maps I made of various dungeons - some old, some new:

* Amicus Palace (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-amicus.png)

* Bracket Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-bracket.png)

* Eldritch Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-eldritch.png)

* Life's End (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-lifesend.png)

* Sand Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-sand.png)

* Snake Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-snake.png)

* Thorn Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-thorn.png)

* Tropical Labyrinth (http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/map-tropical.png)

10-19-2010, 07:03 PM
Getting closer! :)

10-31-2011, 12:19 AM
Hey, _L_. I love the amount of great work you put into ZC recently, but I was wondering: are you still working on this?

(Again, totally fine if you aren't. Just curious, that's all.)

11-15-2011, 03:05 AM
All I have to say is that I'm not working on it... at this very moment.

09-11-2012, 01:20 PM
Did this ever get finished? I recall being pretty excited by this originally but after looking at the maps it looks somewhat uninspired.

I'm sure the gameplay and scripting are top notch, but the actual places seem either boring, bland, or messy. Just design wise it's kinda unappealing. Like that fire spire you posted earlier; I would have no idea that was fire themed unless you mentioned it. The Jungle Labyrinth has little to no green in it, and the leafs on the walls look really awkward.

If someone is still working on this, don't let my criticism hold you back though. Just, I suppose, keep it in mind for the future.

09-28-2012, 10:34 AM
Is this being worked on? Or has it been abandoned?. Reasons I ask the game looks fun and I really want to play it ;)