Which version should I use?

[OctorokX]

I was recently introduced to ZC, and I am really enjoying it. There are a lot of different versions of ZC available on the site and would like to see if I can get some help in figuring out which one to use. I downloaded v2.10, the latest v2.5 beta, and the Lost Isle build. Which one is the best? The LI build looks newer than v2.10, but I see messages on some of the custom quests that recommend using a v2.5 beta. So confusing...

Thanks in advance for your help.

[Russ]

First, welcome to ZC!

Second, generally, for playing quests, use 2.10. However, Lost Isle and Origin need the Lost Isle build, and many quests need 2.5 betas.

For making quests, depends. 2.10 is pretty simple to use, and has plenty of good features, if you know how to use them. 2.5 betas can have bugs in them from time to time, but have features that will blow you away (such as scripting and enemy editing), but they are very hard to use.

[Shazza Dani]

First, welcome to ZC!
2.5 betas can have bugs in them from time to time...

That's an understatement. The new betas are crap.

Use version 1.92 beta 183; it's the best for stability and features (the older versions are generally more stable, but they aren't worth using because they severely lack anything that wasn't in LoZ).

[Russ]

1.92? You have got to be kidding me. At least use 2.10.

[Shazza Dani]

1.92 is more stable than 2.10, and 2.10 hardly has any new features to make it worth using. All it has is the three Goddess Spell items, which I don't need nor want in my quest.

If 2.10 has any other features that 1.92 lacks, please enlighten me. (And no Link Tile Modifiers, because they don't even work)

[Petoe]

mighty_darknut is correct, ZC 1.92 (and especially build 183) is the best version to use if you're a beginner and you want stability and as few bugs as possible.

Everything that has come after 1.92 has been crap unfortunately. Hopefully ZC 2.5 is released during this century so quest makers can create bugfree quests safely once again.

[jman2050]

These threads and their responses are getting tiresome.

[OctorokX]

Thank you for the warm welcome. I appreciate it when a forum welcomes newcomers instead of asking, "What on earth are you doing here?"

That said, thanks for the input. I will have to try that 1.92 build. Just for the record, what features does the Lost Isle build have that the regular ZC builds do not have?


These threads and their responses are getting tiresome.
I hope that I didn't seem like I was trying to discourage your work in any way. All I am asking for is more information on the different builds. Sorry if I sounded like I do not appreciate your work.

[bigjoe]

These threads and their responses are getting tiresome.

Note the emphasis on their responses. Them bugs are backed up into a cave. Their days are numbered.

By the way, I shall issue a challenge to anyone. Name one recent "OMFG" bug that hasn't been fixed in the very next build. I'm not going to say why just yet, but name it. Like a bug thats so horrible that it makes you want to peel your eyes out. Hell, it could just be a Z1 inconsistency.

I have no problems with a newbie asking which version to use, but recommending them to a fossil of a ZC version? :rolleyes:

I fully and wholeheartedly recommend beta 2.5.

[Russ]

The Lost Isle build was made because LI was made with earlier builds, and when the enemy editor was changed, LI would have had all custom enemies deleted, so a kind dev made the build to plasy LI. LI is really the only quest that works with the build.

[Gleeok]

I hope that I didn't seem like I was trying to discourage your work in any way. All I am asking for is more information on the different builds. Sorry if I sounded like I do not appreciate your work.

Hello and welcome!


So you know it's not "these threads" that are getting annoying, it's the responses they seem to generate. Asking for differences between the ZC versions is perfectly reasonable, while the replies you have received are not. (Seriously guys, wtf?)

Needless to say, I completely agree with jman2050 here.


If you want an unbiased opinion, here it is;

The 2.5 betas have many, many more features than 2.10 and below. Many documented here: http://www.shardstorm.com/wiki

1.92 is considered to be the most stable (besides 1.90) to date.


And now for the biased opinion:

The newer betas are very good despite what some critics may think. In fact, just about everyone in this community is using them. Personally, I don't see how anyone would still want to use 1.92. Just look at the beta bugs list for petes sake. Mostly cosmetic and minor annoyances. Any new fancy quest is going to use them, I guarantee it.

I would rather jam a fork in my foot than use 1.92 over 2.5. The new versions aren't just old versions with 'new' in the title. They're improved for a reason.

All that said, if you would only like to create a very basic Z1 replica, it doesn't really matter much. *Points to the enemy editor and scripting features*

[Petoe]

Oh so everybody recommends to use a 2.5 build now, huh? What's with that? How can anyone recommend to build quests with builds that are buggy and unstable, a work in progress. :confused:
I remember when there was a time that it was regarded as an unsmart decision to build your quests on ZC builds/betas, but now suddenly it is a great idea to build quests with 2.5 betas, unbeliveable...

Can you developers really guarantee that if I start building a new quest with the latest build, I shouldn't experience any fatal bugs and my quest should work on the upcoming builds and the final ZC 2.5 as well whenever it is released?

Sorry for being annoying but I just happen to have some REALLY BAD experiences working on 2.5 builds, and waiting for ZC 2.5 that should have been released in 2006 doesn't really make me confident in the developers, sorry again.



Just for the record, what features does the Lost Isle build have that the regular ZC builds do not have?

Well the current ZC builds do have a few more features since the Lost Isle build is almost one year old now. But the ZQuest for Lost Isle build was never released because DFW and I agreed that the LI build ZQuest wasn't stable enough for questbuilding. And it's the same with the current builds, I wouldn't recommend anyone use a build to build their quests because things seem to be changing all the time and it will not be nice if your quest suddenly stops working in a new build where there has been a major change. :(

[bigjoe]

Sorry for being annoying but I just happen to have some REALLY BAD experiences working on 2.5 builds, and waiting for ZC 2.5 that should have been released in 2006 doesn't really make me confident in the developers, sorry again.

Have you even opened a build that was made after 254.:odd:

They're really not all that bad lately. 2.5 is almost across the gap to being released.

I don't know, perhaps I've let the ultra-shiny bad ass features go to my head. But really, a release is getting very VERY close. And I'm not saying that on behalf of the staff or because I have insider info. I'm saying it because I can put two and two together.


it will not be nice if your quest suddenly stops working in a new build where there has been a major change.

I don't think there will be any major changes from here on out that aren't required to eliminate bugs. The bugs that are popping up are sausage effect bugs that happen because when you fix one it creates another.

The only recent major change I can think of is the 'Item Override' Subscreen feature, which was put in to finalize the anciently planned "Can Keep Old Items" functionality. It did cause a couple bugs, but I think they've been addressed.

It's not some doomsday nightmare. The long awaited dawn is close.

[Nicholas Steel]

The major problems i see in 2.5 currently are to do with scripting and backwards support.

[jman2050]

I'm not even sure what problems there are with backwards support, as every single last 2.10 and earlier quest I've played with the betas has worked without a hitch.

[Freedom]

These threads and their responses are getting tiresome.


The fact that the responses are getting tiresome to you doesn't make them any less true however.
Look at the last two releases, they both had crippling bugs that prevented a quest from being built or played to completion.
The string bug in one and the Gravity in another, both crippled my quest.
You may not like the way Petoe spoke it, but he still spoke the truth.

[jman2050]

The fact that the responses are getting tiresome to you doesn't make them any less true however.
Look at the last two releases, they both had crippling bugs that prevented a quest from being built or played to completion.
The string bug in one and the Gravity in another, both crippled my quest.
You may not like the way Petoe spoke it, but he still spoke the truth.

The string bug and sideview bug were fixed right as they were discovered, and the next beta will have both fixed. I don't have the time or power necessary to test every aspect of the engine before each release. _L_ and I DO have the power to fix whatever problems may creep up though, and isolated bugs of that nature are simple.

The current betas aren't perfect but I'm not going to let misinformation run rampant. Not when we're so close.

[Freedom]

The string bug and sideview bug were fixed right as they were discovered, and the next beta will have both fixed. I don't have the time or power necessary to test every aspect of the engine before each release. _L_ and I DO have the power to fix whatever problems may creep up though, and isolated bugs of that nature are simple.

The current betas aren't perfect but I'm not going to let misinformation run rampant. Not when we're so close.

The original poster basically ask which version would be the most stable to build his quest in now.
It wasn't misinformation.

If you recall I put out a lot of effort on the 10b because it was so close, that was a lifetime ago.

[Joe123]

Infact, if you go back and read the first post, he doesn't ask which is the most stable version, he asks which is the best version ;-)

[Gleeok]

The original poster basically ask which version would be the most stable to build his quest in now.
It wasn't misinformation.



I was recently introduced to ZC, and I am really enjoying it. There are a lot of different versions of ZC available on the site and would like to see if I can get some help in figuring out which one to use. I downloaded v2.10, the latest v2.5 beta, and the Lost Isle build. Which one is the best? The LI build looks newer than v2.10, but I see messages on some of the custom quests that recommend using a v2.5 beta. So confusing...

Thanks in advance for your help.



Rly now. :rolleyes:

[Freedom]

Infact, if you go back and read the first post, he doesn't ask which is the most stable version, he asks which is the best version ;-)

So we're going to play semantics then.
Ok... the best one to play with and not build quests is generally the new one, the one that works the best is the one you can actually build and release the most bug free quest with, and as Petoe said, that's probably the 192b183

THe lost isle build shouldn't be used at all.

[jman2050]

The original poster basically ask which version would be the most stable to build his quest in now.
It wasn't misinformation.

If you recall I put out a lot of effort on the 10b because it was so close, that was a lifetime ago.

No no, he was technically right. 1.92 is probably still the most stable version out there. THe misinformation comes from the "2.5 is crap" statements which seem to stem from the idea that quests built in the current betas would suddenly not work in later betas. That's always a danger, granted, but nothing like that has happened any time in the past year or so and if any such situation occurs again I swear I can find a way to migrate early quests over without incident.

I'm not gonna claim the betas are stable to my satisfaction, but right now it's a risk/reward situation, and many believe that the benefits of using the newer betas outweigh the problems. And I really do want to see this version finished. I left the ZC team early last year because I had my own problems to deal with and with DarkDragon, DN, and _L_ working hard on the program, I was confident things would progress, and they did as time passed. Unfortunately, due to current circumstances, none of which are the fault of anybody I named mind you, I felt it necessary to come back. I wouldn't have come back if I didn't think it was necessary to finally get 2.5 out before the next century. And it's frustrating that the work me and _L_ have done for ZC currently is getting undermined because of mistakes that we've made in the past. That's done and overwith. I was inexperienced then, and still have much to learn now, but I swear I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and make sure that ZC doesn't remain in development hell for much longer. And I certainly don't need people who don't know better implying that we're not doing a good enough job. I'm not having that.

[Joe123]

816 looks to work pretty good to me, and I have quite a nice bug free quest in it. Much better for making quests in than 1.92.
Releasing it's not a problem either, the QDB here accepts beta quests now I believe.

[Freedom]

No no, he was technically right. 1.92 is probably still the most stable version out there. THe misinformation comes from the "2.5 is crap" statements which seem to stem from the idea that quests built in the current betas would suddenly not work in later betas. That's always a danger, granted, but nothing like that has happened any time in the past year or so and if any such situation occurs again I swear I can find a way to migrate early quests over without incident.

I'm not gonna claim the betas are stable to my satisfaction, but right now it's a risk/reward situation, and many believe that the benefits of using the newer betas outweigh the problems. And I really do want to see this version finished. I left the ZC team early last year because I had my own problems to deal with and with DarkDragon, DN, and _L_ working hard on the program, I was confident things would progress, and they did as time passed. Unfortunately, due to current circumstances, none of which are the fault of anybody I named mind you, I felt it necessary to come back. I wouldn't have come back if I didn't think it was necessary to finally get 2.5 out before the next century. And it's frustrating that the work me and _L_ have done for ZC currently is getting undermined because of mistakes that we've made in the past. That's done and overwith. I was inexperienced then, and still have much to learn now, but I swear I'm trying to learn from my mistakes and make sure that ZC doesn't remain in development hell for much longer. And I certainly don't need people who don't know better implying that we're not doing a good enough job. I'm not having that.

The complaint was never about the quality of the work being done, it was about the direction being taken.
look at Petoe's sig, that was from over a year ago.
Even since the feature freeze there has still been a lot added or changed that had little to do with bugs, that just keeps driving a release date back that much further.
Some people don't have a problem with waiting forever, others do, that's just life.
Personally, I gave up on it months ago, so don't worry too much about what I have to say about it because it really doesn't matter much, but Petoe shouldn't be accused of spreading misinformation when what he said is true from a quest builders perspective.

[bigjoe]

Perhaps we should go to "Code Some Color Beyond The Visible Spectrum" feature freeze, and which means absolutely zero new features whatsoever until a new release and any dev who goes against that gets their hands chopped off, their head impaled, and their testicles cut off and set on fire with gasoline, and every sperm donation bank within 500 miles of their residence nuked to ensure the job is done. :p

Nah, just yanking.

I won't deny that a new version is overdue. But do we really have to burn Books of Mudora over it? :scared:


And I certainly don't need people who don't know better implying that we're not doing a good enough job. I'm not having that.

Wooh, defensive! I'm going to step on the other side for a minute and agree with Freedom that no one seems to be implying that.

I'm not as concerned as some. I used to be very freaked out by bugs. (Z1 consistency more so than interversion new-stuff compatibility)

But with someone who compulsively worries about compatibility issues and wants to be safe, a desire for an acceptably stable release isn't outlandish.

If anything, at least let them speak their mind. :(

[The_Amaster]

Stopping in from Germany to say that these last months Jman and especially L have been bug fixing machines.
Just look at the changelogs. Most current bugs tend to be minor annoyances, not quest-breaking travasties.

[Petoe]

I just want to apologize if I have given the wrong idea that I don't appreciate the developers and the insane amount of hours they've put into ZC.
I know the developers are just human beings and they're doing their best. I'm not ungrateful or anything like that, heck, without the developers there wouldn't be ZC at all.

Yes it is unfair how I keep reminding everyone about the mistakes the develoeprs have made in the past 2 years, but hopefully you understand the reasons why I've been doing so. It just has seemed like they still haven't learned from their mistakes, but after reading jman's latest post I'm hopefully wrong.

Now, I have been doing some ZC testing already during this week and I will download build 816 and hopefully with my testing can contribute for a stable and bugfree ZC 2.5. Forgive me for being still doubtful that ZC 2.5 will ever be released but since I have no life really, I will give a one last go at ZC bugtesting and hopefully this time we will really see a new ZC release one of these days.



They're really not all that bad lately.
Ok, they're not bad, but they do have bugs, and bugs are bad. Or I'm I the only these days who hates bugs and wants something stable and safe to build and play their quests on? Has it become acceptable that a free project like this can have bugs? God I hope not...


The bugs that are popping up are sausage effect bugs that happen because when you fix one it creates another.
Indeed, I understand this perfectly, but it is this fact why Im worried... it seems like this never ending loop will never come to an end. Whenever a bug is fixed or something new added, it creates lots of new bugs.


The complaint was never about the quality of the work being done, it was about the direction being taken.
look at Petoe's sig, that was from over a year ago.
Indeed. Thank you for clearng that out, Freedom.

[Freedom]

In 13 days the suggestions forum will celebrate it's first birthday of being closed 6-24-07, it will be one year since a feature freeze and the drive for a stable release began.

[jman2050]

Sorry if I sounded irritated, it's just frustrating :P

I've outlined in my PureZC post what's planned before release, and I plan to do my best to stick to it. A release has been too long awaited.

[Russ]

In 13 days the suggestions forum will celebrate it's first birthday of being closed 6-24-07, it will be one year since a feature freeze and the drive for a stable release began.
Wow, has it really been one year? I can't wait for 2.5 to come out so we can once again flood the suggestions forum with topics. :)

[catfriedrice]

You sure you want to go back to that? Useless suggestions of impossible lusts.

[Russ]

You sure you want to go back to that? Useless suggestions of impossible lusts.
Hey, I just want to get that patra 4 topic going again. Seriously, read that topic, and you'll find my idea would really make the Ganon enemy a lot more fun to play against.

[OctorokX]

I feel that I may have opened up a can of worms, but thanks for the information everyone. Good luck on getting the next release out soon.

[Gleeok]

And you people wonder why we don't get many new members? :P