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DarkDragoonX
05-27-2008, 11:08 PM
So I'm going to take a minute to completely geek out and bring up Dungeons & Dragons, in particular the fact that on June 7th 4th edition will be available in stores, which has me so excited that I feel the urge to type using lots of bold text. Of course, everybody has at least a passing familiarity with D&D, and if somehow you are completely in the dark about it, I'm not going to explain it, mainly because I can't be arsed. So I'm going to skip all the background stuff and move straight to the second paragraph.

4th edition marks a huge change from 3.5, which on one hand is mildly annoying given that the plethora of 3.5 supplements that many of us bought in varying amounts are about to be rendered obsolete. On the other hand, 3.5 is a bit of a colossal train wreck in the balancing department, in particular the antiquated philosophy that melee classes should be useless beyond level 11. They're also doing away with mage spell preparation, which is a godsend to DMs and players everywhere since it was such a huge pain in the ass. Instead, wizards have spells that work either per day, per encounter, or at will. More powerful spells are per day, whereas traditional mage staples, such as Magic Missile, are now at will.

Classes are also given more customization and defined class roles. Fighters are melee protectors with a focus on offense, namely having high melee damage, and many ways to incapacitate enemies before they can get a chance to attack ranged units. Paladins are also protectors, but are focused on defense, sacrificing their own health and safety to keep other party members alive. Classes can be customized more than ever before using a talent tree system. It's actually kind of ironic, because video game RPGs were based off D&D, and now D&D is drawing heavy gameplay design inspiration from video game RPGs. It's come full circle.

Also, you probably thought I was finished with that stupid bold text joke. You were wrong hahaha.

Anyway, D&D is also being shook up at a lore level, with many traditions being turned on their head or tossed out completely. Tieflings are now a basic race, but apparently no longer have a demonic heritage. Aasimars are nowhere to be seen. Erinyes, the lawful evil counterpart to the succubus, are gone. The biggest change is that gnomes are apparently no longer a player race, but are listed in the monster manual, which as far as I'm concerned means it's open season for gnome murder. And I think we can all agree on that being completely awesome.

Anyway, that's enough of that. I don't know if anybody else here even plays D&D at all (somehow I doubt it), but I'm psyched for the upcoming release. Besides, this topic gave me an excuse to use lots of bold text, which entertains me while at the same time really annoying others, so it was worth typing up anyway.

AlexMax
05-28-2008, 01:41 AM
So what do we have here. A new ruleset that bites off of CRPG's and MMORPG's with the intention of making dungeon crawling more streamlined. Oh, and a bunch of arbitrary lore changes. And the privilege of playing in the Forgotten Realms, one of the most played out campaigns ever, not to mention being High Fantasy, the most played out genre ever.

Meanwhile, you also have GURPS. It was far less complicated than D&D from the beginning, is easily expandable to cater to damn near any setting (not just high fantasy), and more importantly makes roleplaying an intrinsic priority through its skill system and generic rules.

Thanks, but if I wanted to dungeon crawl, I would...you know...play a Dungeon Crawl (http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/). If you want to see something truly different, take a gander at the GURPS Lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Lite/) rulebook.

mrz84
05-28-2008, 09:20 AM
I just told DO about all this and he smiled evily when I mentioned the part about the gnomes. I think all his future DMing will have lots of gnome murder/puns...

Master Ghaleon
05-28-2008, 05:37 PM
I have to admit, I miss my old AD&D days. First ever character was a Dwarf warrior, me and my 2 handed axe :P

DarkDragoonX
05-28-2008, 07:15 PM
So what do we have here. A new ruleset that bites off of CRPG's and MMORPG's with the intention of making dungeon crawling more streamlined. Oh, and a bunch of arbitrary lore changes. And the privilege of playing in the Forgotten Realms, one of the most played out campaigns ever, not to mention being High Fantasy, the most played out genre ever.

So obviously you don't play any new FPS games, certainly not Team Fortress 2. I mean, FPS is the most played out genre ever. Your theory seems to be that after something has been done a few times, it's never worth doing again, which is just ridiculous. Not everything has to be new and innovate to be fun and entertaining.


Meanwhile, you also have GURPS. It was far less complicated than D&D from the beginning, is easily expandable to cater to damn near any setting (not just high fantasy), and more importantly makes roleplaying an intrinsic priority through its skill system and generic rules.

Thanks, but if I wanted to dungeon crawl, I would...you know...play a Dungeon Crawl (http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/). If you want to see something truly different, take a gander at the GURPS Lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/Lite/) rulebook.

I'm perfectly familiar with GURPS. I'm also quite familiar with Rifts, Exalted, Call of Cthulhu, Alternity (mostly just for the spectacular Dark*Matter campagin setting), Various BESM editions... I even have the Discworld PnP RPG, which has never, and will never actually be used, but is fun to have regardless. Different RPG systems can accomplish different things depending on what you're in the mood for, and sometimes you just want to get together with a bunch of friends and loot the hell out of some ruins.

As for actually roleplaying... rules that support roleplaying still can't force people to do it. A lack of rules supporting it can't stop people from doing it fi they want to. It's not terribly difficult to roleplay by the seat of your pants, without rules enforcing it... in fact, it's more fun, and more in the spirit of roleplaying to do it that way.

Whether actual roleplaying occurs has everything to do with the players in the group and nothing to do with the rules you use.

Zank_Tripper
06-22-2008, 12:52 PM
I'm going to buy the new Player's Handbook today. Some of my friends are getting into a game and I want to come prepared. As far as I can tell, the new edition might as well be called "D&D for Dummies" because it looks pretty streamlined. They also seem to have gotten rid of the Half-Orc race, the monk, the druid, and the bard.

Aegix Drakan
06-22-2008, 12:55 PM
There already IS a book called "DND for Dummies". I've actually seen it, and read a bit of it, just for the heck of it.

ShadowTiger
06-22-2008, 07:21 PM
Aasimars are nowhere to be seen.Oh holy shit I cried.

ZTC
06-22-2008, 07:48 PM
I've thinking about getting a game based off of it, but it'll prolly be a while till a game using that ruleset, won't it? Might get Tactics for the PSP, but would it be worth it?

mrz84
06-22-2008, 08:33 PM
There already IS a book called "DND for Dummies". I've actually seen it, and read a bit of it, just for the heck of it.

I've read that book too at my local library no less (not joking!) and thought it was decent supllementary material for beginners. Only decent though. :kitty:

Zank_Tripper
06-22-2008, 11:40 PM
Well, if you buy it you'll probably want to get the set off of Amazon. You save about $40 that way between the three books. I bought mine at Barnes & Ignoble and paid way to much for it.

But to the point, I think it will be at least as fun. Sure, if you're already hardcore into D&D you'll want way more options and won't mind the overcomplexity, but if you're a casual/normal player like me it will make the games run a lot smoother.

Also, if you're going to play with beginners I would recommend 4th Ed. as well. The book is laid out better and easier to understand. All in all, I'd say the whole thing was an overall improvement.