Worst President Ever!

[Starkist]

So far, there have been 42 presidents of the United States. (43 if you count Grover Cleveland twice.) There have been some good ones and some bad ones, but which one was the absolute worst?

John Adams:
Imprisoned political opponents. His own Vice-President defeated him when he ran for reelection.

John Quincy Adams:
Remembered for a rather corrupt administration.

Andrew Jackson:
Sent the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears. Bypassed his confirmed cabinet with unofficial advisers. Used the power of the Federal Government to break the US Bank.

William Henry Harrison:
Died less than two months into office. (Maybe that makes him the best?)

James Buchanan:
Hoped that the slavery issue would just go away. Left the issue for his successor.

Abraham Lincoln:
Suspended habeas corpus during wartime. Launched a war against the southern states. Countermanded established case law with executive orders. Shot.

Andrew Johnson:
Only put on the ballot of 1964 to appeal to states on the edge of rebellion. Tried to forgive the southern states after the war. First president to be impeached.

Ulysses S. Grant:
Binged his way through the presidency. Died penniless.

Rutherford B. Hayes:
Stole the election of 1976 because of controversial electors from southern states. Ended Reconstruction as payback.

Chester Arthur:
Have you ever heard of him?

William McKinley:
Started a war of aggression against Spain based on faulty intelligence. Shot.

Woodrow Wilson:
Led the nation into war against countries that never overtly attacked us, breaking his campaign promise. Proclaimed a crusade to build democracy across the world.

Warren Harding:
Had the most corrupt cabinet until Nixon. Died in office while trying to get away from it all.

Herbert Hoover:
Failed to stop oncoming depression. Took the blame for it all.

Franklin Roosevelt:
Broke precedent and ran for a third term. Led nation into World War II. Turned the Federal Government into a safety net for all.

John F. Kennedy:
Sent troops to Vietnam in order to stop the spread of Communism. Attempted to overthrow the leader of Cuba in a top-secret military operation. Shot.

Lyndon Johnson:
Escalated the war in Vietnam. Expanded the welfare state. His own party abandoned him in 1968.

Richard Nixon:
Escalated fighting in Vietnam, but withdrew the troops. The most scandal-plagued administration in history. Resigned as impeachment articles were being drawn up. Pardoned.

Gerald Ford:
Pardoned President Nixon. Hung South Vietnam out to dry. Tripped.

Jimmy Carter:
Worst economy since the Depression. Oil crisis. Tried to talk to terrorists, got Marines killed and taken hostage.

Ronald Reagan:
Iran/Contra scandal. Expanded the military to counter Communism.

George Bush:
Broke campaign promise and raised taxes. Invaded Iraq but left Saddam Hussein in power, hanging the Kurds out to dry. Trounced in reelection campaign by two southerners.

Bill Clinton:
Administration plagued by scandals, most of them quite salacious. Spread troops around the globe to promote democracy but pulled out if the locals fought back. Pardoned a laundry list of criminals on his way out. Impeached.

George W. Bush:
Expansion of Federal Government powers relating to espionage and anti-terrorism. Launched Iraq War based on possibly faulty intelligence.

*************************************************

I thought this would be an interesting thought experiment. I hear from many these days that our current president is the worst ever. I find this to be nonsense, for two reasons. One, those who say it probably cannot name more than five other presidents anyway, and are just caught up in the emotion of the moment. Second, historical perspective is always necessary to determine how a man affects history.

Also, I did not post all 42 presidents. However, notice that I ended up posting every president since 1960. This tells me that in the television era we are spectators to every foible, so much more than in the days of the newspaper.

So, looking at this list, who was the worst President of the United States?

[MottZilla]

Wow I can't imagine how this vote will go. But I guess it's possible someone here might hate someone just a bit more than what will be the most popular vote. Though I imagine most of the random votes will just be bullshit for the fuck of it.

[phattonez]

I have to defend FDR and JFK here. You can't blame FDR for getting us into WWII, and he was dealt a pretty terrible situation. You're gonna blame him for any abuses of the system because he was trying to save it?

JFK's involvement in the Bay of Pigs was because of Eisenhower, he just inherited the situation. Granted he didn't really help it, but you can't blame him for starting it. As for the troops, he didn't get full US entry there did he?

[DarkDragoonX]

Wasn't Harrison the guy who caught pneumonia after giving an extremely long inauguration speech on a cold, rainy day? Didn't he die from it something like a month after entering office?

If so, he gets my vote. Any president that manages to assassinate himself clearly sucks at the job.

[Beldaran]

I hear from many these days that our current president is the worst ever. I find this to be nonsense

The fact that George W. Bush is as bad as the worst presidents ever is bad enough for me to call him the worst.

There is a level of shittiness beyond which things don't need to be ranked. George W. Bush, and several other presidents, are in this category.

Also, you listed like 1/50 of his scandals and failures.

[phattonez]

I'm surprised that more people don't vote for John Adams. That guy trampled all over the constitution and for no reason. Imprisoning those who don't agree with him and silencing anything against the United States. That guy was crazy.

[The_Amaster]

Andrew Johnson:
Only put on the ballot of 1964 to appeal to states on the edge of rebellion. Tried to forgive the southern states after the war. First president to be impeached.
Slight typo here ;)

I'd say George W. Bush is the worst, but honestly he's the only president that I've liver under (while being politicly aware) so although I may find him the worst...
Maybe Nixon?

[Russ]

Jimmy Carter. I can't even begin to list all the stuff that he did wrong.

[AtmaWeapon]

I don't know what to do with this kind of checkbox, every time I click it unselects the last one. I think it's a bug?

[Aegix Drakan]

If so, he gets my vote. Any president that manages to assassinate himself clearly sucks at the job.

:laughing: That's just too funny.

:P Man, your personality goes so well with your avatar that it's incredible.

[rock_nog]

You know, it's an interesting point. In perspective, I'd say that Dubbya isn't the worst president of all time, but he's definitely in the top five in my books (the other four being Reagan, Nixon, Harding, and Jackson). Bush and Reagan get in because of sheer ineptitude, Nixon and Harding are in because of their corruption and tainting of the Oval Office, and Jackson because he's just one evil sonuvabitch. Partly it's the fact that I'm part Native American, but mostly, it's just that Jackson puts Bush's "cowboy diplomacy" to shame, in terms of his attitude that the solution to every problem involved a gun.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Beldaran, yeah, he didn't even scratch the surface with Bush, but then again, didn't even scratch the surface with a lot of these guys.

[Daarkseid]

I voted Jackson because of his support of Indian Removal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Indian_removal), which primarily affected the civilized tribes in the southern US:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_civilized_tribes

At the time there were those within the US who argued that the American Indians ought to be allowed near equal status provided they adapted their societies to be more compatible with white western society, these five civilized groups successfully adopted many parts of American society and could rightly have been able to assert their equality, the Cherokee even appealed to the Supreme Court and won the decision that stated Georgia had no right to impose its laws on Cherokee territory. Instead, this lead to Jackson to begin legislation and a one sided treaty that lead to the forced removal of these tribes and this culminated in the trail of tears.

I've always despised Jackson because of this, even by some contemporary ideals in his time, he took the monstrous side. It disappoints me that Democrats include Jackson alongside Jefferson as examples of esteemed presidents in their party's history.

[Masamune]

If I recall correctly from some history class way back when, Jackson was a real scumbag.

[Beldaran]

Democrats include ... Jefferson as examples of esteemed presidents in their party's history.

If Thomas Jefferson is a democrat then Ron Paul is a communist. It's pretty insane to view Thomas Jefferson as an icon of what the modern democrats value. If you showed Thomas Jefferson the size of today's federal government, he'd shit his face.

[Blisspath]

Gotta be the corrupt Harding or Carter imho..also Lyndon Johnson's social programs have hurt this country immensely..my favs? Reagan, Jefferson, Teddy, and Jackson(he is from my state:)

[Shazza Dani]

I picked Andrew Jackson, but G.W. Bush is pretty bad too.

[rock_nog]

Why the hell would a Libertarian list Reagan among his favs? I mean, the man contributed more to government spending than any other president since God-knows-when. And frankly, I'm just appalled that you'd list Jackson as a fav. I swear, the man is a complete disgrace of a human being.

[Starkist]

Why the hell would a Libertarian list Reagan among his favs? I mean, the man contributed more to government spending than any other president since God-knows-when. And frankly, I'm just appalled that you'd list Jackson as a fav. I swear, the man is a complete disgrace of a human being.

I liked Reagan. I'm also torn on Andrew Jackson. He did some horrible things, but he also did some awesome things.

[The Desperado]

I chose Reagan because...I really just hate him. Most political scientist claim that Harding was the worst president ever. I did a paper on this list that was made listing them best to worst, not on ideaology but on effectiveness.

[Archibaldo]

I'm Canadian so I don't know much about your presidents.

But based on what I read I believe that Herbert Hoover was the worst because he failed to stop the depression. Which IMO is worse than 9/11.

[MottZilla]

I didn't like Reagan, though I like him alot more now that the motherfucker is dead.

[phattonez]

It's not just his fault. Calvin Coolidge knew that the Depression was coming and he did nothing either.

[Starkist]

It's actually a myth that President Hoover did nothing to prevent the Depression. He tried a lot of things, they just didn't work. President Roosevelt's ideas did not end the Depression either, though they helped. We can thank World War II for bringing us fully out of it. Nothing like a war to get a country moving.

[Daarkseid]

If Thomas Jefferson is a democrat then Ron Paul is a communist. It's pretty insane to view Thomas Jefferson as an icon of what the modern democrats value. If you showed Thomas Jefferson the size of today's federal government, he'd shit his face.

And Republicans claim Abraham Lincoln as their own, even though Republicans today hardly resemble Lincoln's party(except maybe wanting to suspend Habeas Corpus).

Jefferson did have some views in line with Democrats, in particular favoring the small farmer against the richer merchant and business class in early America. However yes, claiming him a Democrat is dubious from anything but a historical sense.


He tried a lot of things, they just didn't work. President Roosevelt's ideas did not end the Depression either, though they helped. We can thank World War II for bringing us fully out of it. Nothing like a war to get a country moving.

Part of what aggravated the depression was the fact we were an industrial nation that output way more product than could easily be sold, since we had expanded in the 1910s and 1920s to sell to Europeans who first used our products for war, then for post war reconstruction. Well it was around the late 1920s that demand for American goods dropped off as Europe was beginning to rebuild its industry.

At that time, most of the rest of the world was undeveloped and had little immediate need for machinary or steel.

Roosevelt's New Deal attempted to get industry start by creating artificial demand on some goods while subsidizing lagging industries. The effect was that business became profitable again and people were being employed again, but it was mostly artificial; it wasn't a real economic recovery and even attempts by Roosevelt later in the 1930s to scale back his new deal resulted in economic recession.

The second World War, however, revived legitimate demand of American goods, as well as the government spending large amounts of tax revenue on American munitions for the war effort. Once the war ended, our economy continued booming because of post war reconstruction in places badly affected by the war.

[MottZilla]

Our latest war is doing the opposite and helping the country into the shitter. Well I guess that's what happens when you start bullshit wars instead of real ones.

[AlphaDawg]

I voted for Jimmy Carter, if for no reason other than he's the only president who's managed to become even worse since leaving office.

[Starkist]

Our latest war is doing the opposite and helping the country into the shitter. Well I guess that's what happens when you start bullshit wars instead of real ones.

You know, I don't really want to start an argument, but your ignorance is annoying. To say what you said, you must have evidence that the slowing economy is a direct result of the continued war in Iraq. This may be hard to establish, considering the economy grew pretty well between 2003 and 2007. If the war is the reason for the current slowdown, does that mean the upswing of those years was also due to the war?

[Beldaran]

you must have evidence that the slowing economy is a direct result of the continued war in Iraq.

We are paying billions of dollars for the war in Iraq. We don't actually have these billions of dollars. We borrow these billions of dollars from China, a communist dictatorship. Also, we print lots of money. The value of the dollar plummets since we are a) printing dollars and b) flooding markets with dollars that don't exist normally in the American economy because we are borrowing them from an enemy who thinks it's fun to watch us splash around like jack asses.

The demand for oil is rising and the value of the dollar is dropping, so gas prices in the united states become astronomically expensive. By proxy, abso-fucking-lutely everything else becomes really expensive. Airlines file bankruptcy. Food prices rise. People spend less money on entertainment and travel.

Stupid purposeless war = worse economy.

[phattonez]

Someone want to prove that this wouldn't have happened if there was no war?

[Icey]

I voted for Rutherford B. Hayes. Nothing is more annoying than the fiasco of 1877.

Otherwise I would have picked W. He really is just terrible on every level. I can't stand neo-conservative ideology.

[rock_nog]

Someone want to prove that this wouldn't have happened if there was no war?
Current estimates hold that we've spent roughly $500 billion on a war that was supposed to cost between $20 billion and $100 billion. Now, you can't prove this wouldn't have happened, but I mean, basic economics will tell you that spending $500 billion that you don't have isn't good (except maybe in a time of recession, to invest in the economy).

[Lilith]

---

[rock_nog]

Honestly, I feel bad for Jimmy. I mean, the things he had going against him weren't really his fault. The economy tanked because of the oil crisis, and the oil crisis happened because of the Iranian revolution. As for the hostage situation, Jimmy was the one that really did all the work to get the hostages free - it was only bad timing that they weren't released until Reagan took office, letting him take all the credit while basically having done nothing.

Eh, it's just one of the hazards of the job, I guess.

[phattonez]

Current estimates hold that we've spent roughly $500 billion on a war that was supposed to cost between $20 billion and $100 billion. Now, you can't prove this wouldn't have happened, but I mean, basic economics will tell you that spending $500 billion that you don't have isn't good (except maybe in a time of recession, to invest in the economy).

And what's the national debt again? ;)

And you knew that the poll was going to go this way. People just don't have a sense of history. We have a guy that took us to a war that really hasn't affected us at all and will probably result in 7000 American deaths at the most. Then you have Woodrow Wilson who basically took us into WWI, which was responsible for 100,000 American deaths, steered this country pretty close to fascism, and for what? FDR interred pretty much all Japanese people in this country and historians see the main reason as petty racism. Andrew Jackson screwing with the Indians, John Adams almost leading us to a totalitarian state, Thomas Jefferson basically ignoring his job after realized that next year he wasn't going to be president, Abraham Lincoln suspending habeas corpus for his own citizens, etc. If you honestly thing that George W. Bush is the worst president that this country has ever had, then you really need to go look into a history book and look at all of the atrocities that other presidents have committed.

[Beldaran]

a war that really hasn't affected us at all

This is the most ignorant and short sided statement I've ever seen.

[ctrl-alt-delete]

If by short sided, you mean shortsighted, then I agree.

Come on, Bel. I expected more from you.

[Cloral]

Presidential historians have been doing rankings like this for years now, and they frequently put Harding and Buchanan at the bottom of the list, for scandals and failing to do anything while the south seceded, respectively.

On the other hand, W isn't on their lists yet as he is still in office. I have to think you only made this list because deep down you know W is terrible, and you wanted to make yourself feel better by trying to get others to tell you he isn't the worst ever. So why even bother? Why not just go watch some Fox News and let their soothing lies surround you. Whatever helps you sleep better at night, right?

[phattonez]

Well let's see Bel, compare your life before the war and your life after the war. What's the only difference? Gas prices (easily responsible for inflation and everything else that is going on) is about all that you notice. The Iraq war has had a negligible affect on gas prices. You know what's really behind high gas prices? Peak Oil, maybe you should look that up. Actually, Bush wanted to fix the problem at least somewhat by drilling in Alaska, but you know what, Congress wouldn't let him.

Let's compare this war with other wars. Have you been deterred (WWII)? Have you been drafted (basically every war up to Vietnam)? Has your right to a trial been abused (Civil War)? Has your right to free speech been violated (WWI)? Have goods been rationed (WWII and others)?

Sounds like anyone who thinks that George W. Bush is the worst president ever is just spoiled by this era's American lifestyle.

[rock_nog]

You know, how do define "worst president ever," anyway? I mean, I just realized, it's easy for your least favorite president to influence your views. Just look at the votes - only one for Harding, despite the fact that it's basically commonly accepted that he's the worst ever. I myself voted for Andrew Jackson, but I realize that I may have let my personal hatred of that man get in the way of my judgment. Plus, I also kinda just wanted to make a statement - you know, because I don't know how many people realize what a horrible person he really was, what with the Trail of Tears and all that jazz. I mean, he's on the $20 bill, for Pete's sake. Even if he's not the worst, he certainly doesn't deserve to be on currency.

EDIT: Oh, and Phattonez, I've looked into the ANWR issue, and I don't think that drilling in Alaska would have done much to reduce oil prices.

[Cloral]

You know, how do define "worst president ever," anyway? I mean, I just realized, it's easy for your least favorite president to influence your views. Just look at the votes - only one for Harding, despite the fact that it's basically commonly accepted that he's the worst ever. I myself voted for Andrew Jackson, but I realize that I may have let my personal hatred of that man get in the way of my judgment. Plus, I also kinda just wanted to make a statement - you know, because I don't know how many people realize what a horrible person he really was, what with the Trail of Tears and all that jazz. I mean, he's on the $20 bill, for Pete's sake. Even if he's not the worst, he certainly doesn't deserve to be on currency.

If ever there was a president that deserved to be impeached, it was him. He basically told the supreme court to go fuck itself. Alas, for a president to be impeached he has to be unpopular, and Jackson was too popular at the time.

[Beldaran]

Come on, Bel. I expected more from you.

Typo. My most common typos are grammatical because I go too fast and if something "sounds" correct then I don't notice it.

[Starkist]

On the other hand, W isn't on their lists yet as he is still in office. I have to think you only made this list because deep down you know W is terrible, and you wanted to make yourself feel better by trying to get others to tell you he isn't the worst ever. So why even bother? Why not just go watch some Fox News and let their soothing lies surround you. Whatever helps you sleep better at night, right?


Wow, strawman climbs out of his hole again. He sees his shadow. Six more weeks of BS.

[rock_nog]

Okay. so to be clear here, yes, Dubbya is a bad president, but he's not the worst president in history. I'm sorry, but "not sucking as much as Harding" is a pretty lame goal in terms of presidential excellence. I mean, about the best I can say about Dubbya is that he implemented NCLB, and that was a complete disaster - I respect his determination to improve our school system, but damn, he sure picked a terrible way to go about it.

[DarkDragoonX]

Wow, strawman climbs out of his hole again. He sees his shadow. Six more weeks of BS.

... Just out of curiosity, is it even possible for you to have any sort of political conversation without going on about your precious "strawman?"

I need to start keeping track of how often you use it.

[Starkist]

The problem is that people have no sense of historical perspective. Most of the issues that people use to call President Bush a failed president are ones of ideological disagreement, not objective failures. Talk to most conservatives, and you find that President Reagan is one of the best presidents and President Clinton is one of the worst. Talk to many liberals, and the opposite is true.

Many years from now we will have the benefit of perspective. We will be removed from the passions of ideological disagreement and we will also be able to see how this administration's actions play out in the long term.

Patience and perspective are hard for the post-MTV generation, I know, but it is important, especially from a historical perspective.


... Just out of curiosity, is it even for you to have any sort of political conversation without going on about your precious "strawman?"

I need to start keeping track of how often you use it.

I try, but you all keep doing it. :shrug:

[AlphaDawg]

Honestly, I feel bad for Jimmy. I mean, the things he had going against him weren't really his fault. The economy tanked because of the oil crisis, and the oil crisis happened because of the Iranian revolution. As for the hostage situation, Jimmy was the one that really did all the work to get the hostages free - it was only bad timing that they weren't released until Reagan took office, letting him take all the credit while basically having done nothing.

Eh, it's just one of the hazards of the job, I guess.Jimmy brought upon the Iranian revolution by subverting the Shah of Iran! The Shah may have been a murderous thug, but he was on our side, and sometimes you have to settle for the lesser of two evils. (Hence our support of Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war.) And believe me, it was no coincidence the hostages were set free the day Ronaldus Magnus was inaugurated. Reagan didn't actually do anything, but he didn't have to, as the threat of force was legitimate. THAT was what made Jimmy Carter a miserable failure of a president. He was, and still is, a hopeless pacifist. Diplomacy does nothing if you can't back it up with force.


If ever there was a president that deserved to be impeached, it was him. He basically told the supreme court to go fuck itself. Alas, for a president to be impeached he has to be unpopular, and Jackson was too popular at the time.I dunno about that... BJ Clinton was pretty popular and only became more so during l'affair Lewinsky, yet he was impeached. Perhaps the difference was Jackson's party held both houses of Congress during his whole term in office, save for the Senate in the 23rd Congress.

[Beldaran]

Many years from now we will have the benefit of perspective. We will be removed from the passions of ideological disagreement and we will also be able to see how this administration's actions play out in the long term.

The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.

However, to have a productive capitalist democracy you need to have productive capitalist people. Iraq does not have, for the most part, productive capitalist people. It has deeply religious tribal sects that can't do anything but argue and blame everyone for their own culture. George Bush's plan has, and will continue to, fail. In one hundred years, his plan will be viewed as a failure because it is already a failure.

Unless in 100 years people suddenly decide that igniting sectarian violence in volatile regions and trying to force feed your ideology (however superior that ideology is) down the throat of a culture that is too primitive to understand it is a great idea. Then GW will be seen as a real winner.

Aside from that, I don't know how anyone will ever have their head far enough up their ass to view this semi-literate, English as a third language beer drinking Jesus freak as a good president.

[Beta Link]

If I recall, from Social Studies, Hoover was pretty useless. He tried some things to prevent the Great Depression from happening, and failed miserably. But I really suck at making opinions on things, let alone opinions on presidents, so I can't really say.

[phattonez]

The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.

Bel actually thinks that Bush is the only president who ever thought this. :laughing:

Never mind the Korean War, Vietnam, South America, etc.

[Starkist]

The whole "In a hundred years Bush will be seen as a good president!" argument is so obnoxious. Bush's goal was to transform Iraq into a productive, capitalist democracy. Tres Noble.

However, to have a productive capitalist democracy you need to have productive capitalist people. Iraq does not have, for the most part, productive capitalist people. It has deeply religious tribal sects that can't do anything but argue and blame everyone for their own culture. George Bush's plan has, and will continue to, fail. In one hundred years, his plan will be viewed as a failure because it is already a failure.

Unless in 100 years people suddenly decide that igniting sectarian violence in volatile regions and trying to force feed your ideology (however superior that ideology is) down the throat of a culture that is too primitive to understand it is a great idea. Then GW will be seen as a real winner.

Aside from that, I don't know how anyone will ever have their head far enough up their ass to view this semi-literate, English as a third language beer drinking Jesus freak as a good president.

You know, this is why I keep bringing up the strawman fallacy. I never tried to argue to that Bush has been a good president. I am just pointing out that until we have the benefit of historical perspective, any judgment is ultimately premature.

[Beldaran]

Starkist, since people currently think he's a horrible president, the only possible change in the future would be for people to think he's a good president. Since you argue our opinion is not valid without historical perspective, I am refuting that by saying historical perspective will not change the facts.

There is no straw-man, except for George W. Bush, who clearly needs a brain.
http://atangledweb.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/scarecrow_oz.gif

[rock_nog]

I agree, I fail to see how history will change things. The consequences of his decisions may become more clear, but the important issue is whether those decisions he made were good or bad. I mean, to throw out an analogy - if you decide to run a red light, and you end up not hitting anyone and not getting caught, that doesn't change the fact that running the red light was a bad decision.

I also object to the notion that all objections to Bush are idealogical. In fact, I'm having difficulty coming up with a decision of his that I object to on idealogical grounds. I mean, take NCLB. Obviously, I support education - and in fact, I'm glad to see Bush supporting education. In fact, in a way, I'm kinda glad that he touts it as the greatest accomplishment of his administration. I definitely support education reform, and the implementation of standards. However, despite all that, I object to NCLB, because I just feel that it's completely ineffectual in terms of the implementation of standards. The concept is great - I just don't think that the actual bill itself accomplishes what it was set out to accomplish.