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View Full Version : So, I rented GTA IV...



DarkDragoonX
05-03-2008, 07:21 PM
So I decided to go ahead and rent GTA IV when it came out, and after spending enough time with it to finish story mode, I can safely come to the following conclusion:

That is what all the fuss is about?

About halfway through the game, I realized that I had played this game before, back when it was called GTA III, Vice City, and San Andreas. Sure, GTA IV has a few improvements... better combat is nice, online multiplayer doesn't really matter matter to me but most folks love multiplayer, so that's good. They finally added the ability to instantly retry a mission without driving all the way back to the guy who hands it out. Oh, and I guess they made driving more realistic, but I think most everybody prefers the ninety-degree angle handbrake turns from the previous games.

Despite these additions, there are still plenty of gameplay problems ranging from boneheaded to frustrating, some of which have been around since GTA III. First, partner AI is still completely brain dead. After all these years, you would think that Rockstar could have come up with, if not great AI, then at least AI that doesn't get stuck on corners or get itself run over by traffic. In one mission, I was tasked with killing the three managers of a strip club. To find them, you're supposed to stand near people and eavesdrop on their conversations. Now, one person standing in front of a door told me to back off, because one of the managers was inside. Fair enough, I'll go locate the other two, then decide how to deal with this. On walking away, I accidentally brushed up against him. Apparently this is some sort of terrible crime, and I was instantly shot by approximately twelve thousand different people at once. Hooray. They could have just programmed the door guard to shove you away, but instead they decided that even the most glancing contact is a death sentence. It's completely retarded.

Then there are a few things that are actually a step backwards from previous entries. There are fewer vehicles (in particular no planes, jetpacks, etc), which is definitely a bummer. Like it's past installments, the missions are all very same-y, with maybe one interesting, memorable task for every ten yawn-inducing filler missions. And have I mentioned yet that driving is much less fun than it used to be?

Remember Vice City, when you could buy certain businesses, finish a small quest chain, and then get extra money and/or special bonuses from it? Well, now you get a "relationship" system, which essentially boils down to getting bonuses by bowling a lot. As you progress through the game, you meet new friends, who want to hang out with you. By taking them to shows, bowling alleys, pool halls, etc, you can make them happy, and if they become happy enough, they'll have extra services for you. Make friends with your cousin, and you can call him up for a free cab ride. Date a nurse, and you can give her a call for a free health boost. It sounds like a good idea in theory.

In theory.

Unfortunately, you can only do the stupid pool, bowling, whatever minigames once, maybe twice, before you never want to see them again as long as you live. The constant demands your friends have for your attention, especially as you get more and more of them, causes an excessive amount of grunt work to keep your relationship level high and your bonuses available. The old method of buying property, doing a quest chain, and never having to worry about it again was so much better it isn't even funny.

For all the hubbub surrounding the characters and the story, it's not really any better than previous entries. The main character is certainly well-done, and the "reluctant antihero" is pretty interesting, but all the people you work for are the same "one-sided crazy guy" archetypes seen in previous entries. The plot is pretty standard criminal "Sopranos"-type stuff, and not anything particularly notable compared to previous entries.

Multiplayer is, well, multiplayer. The ability to use the entire city as your playing field is nice, but gameplay-wise, it's really just the same thing you've seen before in countless other games, except now you can steal cars. I'm not really into multiplayer shooters much at all, but this game didn't convert me, so take that for what it's worth.

Oh, and before I forget, let me mention that Rockstar really needs to learn how to write jokes that don't resort to toilet humour. At one point I actually sat down and counted how many sexual references I could see and/or hear over the radio in a period of ten minutes. The answer? Twenty-seven. That means I was encountering a sex joke more than once every thirty seconds. I don't mind sex jokes. I don't mind a spot of vulgarity here and there. But when it's as constant and unrelenting as it is in GTA IV, it just gets annoying. It's like they hired a fourteen year old as their head writer. The game has some legitimately clever humour in places, but the vast, vast majority of the time, they avoid wit and go for the cheap laugh with a vagina joke, which is a real shame.

So, I'm not going to buy GTA IV. It's really the exact same game as it's previous iterations with a new coat of paint. It's not a bad game, it's actually a good game, and hardcore fans of the series will love it. If I were a professional reviewer, I'd give it a solid 9 or a 9.5 because again, it is a very good game. It is also, however, the same game they released the last three times. It doesn't push the sandbox genre forward. It doesn't even push the series forward.

GTA is basically following the same pattern that Street Fighter II, Megaman, and Madden NFL have before it: releasing the same damn game over and over with minor tweaks. If you're a hardcore fan, you'll think it's great (god knows I bought every Megaman and Megaman X game), but from an objective standpoint, it's really pretty meh. Any other game series would be (and has been) heavily criticized for releasing minor variations of the same game, but somehow, the GTA series is not only allowed to get away with it, but is praised for it. It makes no sense. To repeat yet again, GTA IV is a good game, but it's certainly not worthy of all the hype and perfect scores the gaming media has been lavishing on it.

Dark Knight
05-03-2008, 07:30 PM
Who plays GTA for the missions anyways? It's all about fucking hookers then killing them for their money.

AtmaWeapon
05-03-2008, 07:39 PM
It has the following features: Sandbox game: there's a giant city and your mission objectives can be secondary if you want them to be. Freedom to break laws that you don't even get to bend in real life. Multiplayer.These three things are what people really play a GTA game for. There's really not much to add to a GTA game. I know I'd love more varied missions, but in the end I spent maybe 10% of the total time I played GTA III in missions; the rest of the time I was trying to see how many people I could snipe before getting arrested, evading the cops without resorting to stars, stealing tanks, and lots of other fun sandbox type things.

Everything you described that is bad is optional; you get perks for the dating sim crap, but nothing forces you to do it. I'm not disagreeing that the game probably isn't very innovative, but I feel like claiming GTA IV is bad because it doesn't add much to the GTA formula is like claiming the upcoming Speed Racer movie is going to be bad due to cheesy dialog.

DarkDragoonX
05-03-2008, 08:35 PM
Take the fluff out of your ears, I never said the game was bad. I said that the level of hype generated for what boils down to the same game we've played before is excessive, particularly in light of the many flaws it has. I'm not trying to denounce the game, I'm trying to explain that the amount of ass-kissing the gaming media has given it is unjustified.

First off, all the "sandbox" things you say you spend most of your time doing? You can do exactly the same shit in all the previous GTA games, so what makes this one so special? Are pretty textures really that important? Does a multiplayer experience that plays pretty much just like every other multiplayer shooter justify the level of worship surrounding the game? I think not.

Second, not everything bad, I mentioned is optional only the relationship... thing. But the bonus sidequests have always been optional, that's no excuse for making optional sidequests worse than previous entries. The shitty partner AI isn't optional, and the smaller variety of vehicles isn't optional, either. The new driving physics certainly aren't optional.

As for not being able to add much? There are a multitude of ways the game could be improved. Just one example that immediately springs to mind, missions could be less linear. As it is now, when you start a mission, you have a follow a very specific path from point A to point B, with no room for any deviation. For example, if you're hired to, say, kill somebody before they leave town on a cruise ship, the way things currently work is: you go to their location, they flee in a car, you have to catch up and kill them before they reach the boat. It's all pre-scripted. What if you could steal their car before talking to them, so they have to flee on foot? What if you could call the owner of said cruise ship to see what day and time it leaves (since GTA keeps track of days/time), then just wait for them to show up and gun them down? Wouldn't that be much more interesting than following a preset path where any deviation, however minor, results in failure?

The game offers nothing better than the previous entries, except shiny graphics and multiplayer. That's it. Graphics can be discarded, because aesthetics have no real impact on gameplay. So we're left with multiplayer. I really don't think that multiplayer magically changes GTA from "really good game" to "OMG best game EVAR!"

AtmaWeapon
05-03-2008, 10:36 PM
I had fun in Vice City even though it was effectively the same game as GTA III. The key here is I get to play in a different sandbox. I've only played GTA on PC, so shiny graphics haven't ever really been a problem, and if I really wanted multiplayer there were mods for it.

What I like is the chance to play in a different sandbox. I have no XBox 360 or PS3, but I will one day and this is one of the games I want to play :)

Master Ghaleon
05-03-2008, 11:07 PM
I got to play this game last night and I thought its pretty cool. One small problem for people with the PS3 version like me. If you saved a game, turn the system off and turn it back on with the auto sign in, the game will freeze when its loading up your game. To fix this for now just sign out of the PSN network and play the game. You can stil play multiplayer online but you cant have a saved game in your files. I heard that there will be a fix to this in a few days

DarkDragoonX
05-04-2008, 05:50 AM
I had fun in Vice City even though it was effectively the same game as GTA III. The key here is I get to play in a different sandbox. I've only played GTA on PC, so shiny graphics haven't ever really been a problem, and if I really wanted multiplayer there were mods for it.

What I like is the chance to play in a different sandbox. I have no XBox 360 or PS3, but I will one day and this is one of the games I want to play :)

And there's no problem with that. It really is a damn good game, especially for fans of the series. Much the same way I love each new iteration of Megaman (barring that worthless .exe series), despite being the same thing with new levels, GTA's legions of fans will love this new offering.

I just feel that a game really has to do something amazing, really has to make me say "holy shit, this is the coolest fucking thing ever," before I can think of it as deserving a "10." GTA III was worthy of a 10. It basically invented the 3-D action sandbox. At the time, the only other sandbox game (that I can think of right now, anyway) was the Elder Scrolls series, and those are dry RPGs, not action games like GTA. So, GTA III brought sandbox gameplay into a modern setting with real-time, action gameplay in a pretty dynamic environment, in a format enjoyable by hardcore and casual players alike. That was no mean feat, and was certainly deserving of a 10. Other games that really helped push gaming forward and are worthy of being given a perfect score include the 64-bit iterations of Mario and Zelda, Doom, System Shock, Deus Ex, Baldur's Gate...

GTA IV is a perfectly fun game, I just don't think it does anything significant enough, doesn't push the boundaries enough to warrant the perfect scores it's been getting. You want to give it a 9.75, that's fine with me, but a 10? That's stretching it. Much like Oblivion before it, I get the feeling that half the reason it's been getting such rave reviews is that the gaming media felt it was expected of them. Hell, the Game Informer review didn't even mention one single problem with the game. Not one negative comment on anything, and there are plenty of issues worth commenting on, even if only in passing. Maybe I'm too picky, but I expect a hell of a lot from any game given a perfect score, and GTA IV just doesn't fit the bill.

AlexMax
05-04-2008, 08:49 AM
Man, why is Grand Theft Auto worthy of a 10, it's just the same damn formula with a new coat of paint.

*plays the latest Zelda/Mario/Final Fantasy game, loves it*

MottZilla
05-04-2008, 02:54 PM
Well did you actually play GTA3, GTA VC, GTA SA? I did. GTA4 is a very nice improvement. The lack of the parachute and planes is a bummer but not a big deal. For the most part though things have vastly improved. There are still some bugs, but I haven't encountered any big ones. While I had the same thing happen to me that happened to you with the managers in the club, that's just one mission design fuckup. You can't bitch because a game has a brutal part. Games are supposed to baby you through the whole thing.

Like AlexMax said, why is it that when it's Nintendo it's fantastic. But when it's GTA it's not? And how can you complain that a SEQUEL is too much the same? That's just silly. Now I understand you didn't say the game is bad, and just don't agree with all the press buzz. While I agree, it's not a perfect 10 of 10, I don't mind if people think so. For me GTA4 is just a pretty good and fun game to play until Gears of War 2. ;)

And Cops n' Robbers is fucking awesome multiplayer.

The_Amaster
05-04-2008, 03:07 PM
Man, why is Grand Theft Auto worthy of a 10, it's just the same damn formula with a new coat of paint.

*plays the latest Zelda/Mario/Final Fantasy game, loves it*
Umm, notice, none of them got 10's either. They all got between 9 and 9.75, the same score DDX recomended giving GTAIV.

And for the record, the really good FF games weren't by Nintendo. They all came out on the precious Playstation, which of course has no fanboys at all.

Cloral
05-04-2008, 05:31 PM
So basically you're complaining about the review scores then? News flash: review scores as frequently bullshit.

Matteo
05-05-2008, 04:00 AM
No, the really good FF games came out on the SNES

The_Amaster
05-05-2008, 08:17 AM
Eh, debatable I guess. That wasn't really my main point anyway, just an afterthought.

ctrl-alt-delete
05-05-2008, 11:30 AM
No, the really good FF games came out on the SNES

Quoted for truth.

MottZilla
05-05-2008, 04:49 PM
So basically you're complaining about the review scores then? News flash: review scores as frequently bullshit.

Similar to movie reviews. You aren't going to agree with them all.