Another zelda question - - this time a hack

[Sam Atoms]

It was about 4 years ago that an unfamiliar guy named Lord Steak released a hack for Zelda 1 called "Shin Zelda Densetsu". It's available on Zophar's Domain, and I'm not sure where else. Some of you may have played it, or perhaps no. I'm rather surprised by how obscure it still is.

It's one of the better hacks out there, except for this little problem:

http://thedarkhideout.homestead.com/files/images/szd.png

As you can see, you play the quest as Zelda. This is the boss room in Level 3, or rather the Mars level (in SZD, the level numbers are planetary symbols). As you can see, there's nothing you can kill in here, and consequently no way to open the shutter and get to the triforce room. I've gone on to finish all the other levels and throw every weapon I can get at this puzzle, but I can't finish the hack because I can't get into the 9th level, for lack of the triforce piece in this dungeon.

I feel like I've tried everything that could possibly work in one of these hacks - - bombing every wall, pushing all the blocks, etc. I've even wondered if this is a bug and there's a specific emulator I need to get this to work right - - I'm using Nestopia, but I've tried it with NESten, Nesticle and Nester and the same thing happens every time. If anyone here has played this game and knows how to get around this trip-up, I'd much appreciate it.

[ctrl-alt-delete]

Did some searching around. No luck.

I assume you have tried walking through the walls? Pushing up against them for a while?

What is up with the flame?

[MottZilla]

Well, you tried bombing everything, shooting arrows, slashing, playing the recorder, etc? You could always look for the flag in memory (a cheat) for if all enemies are dead and the doors should be opened. And then set that to true. Or try to get a walk upwards through walls code. You could also cheat by changing the room number when in the room under that room, to the room number that is in, so that when you travel upward you skip over that room straight to the triforce room.

[Sam Atoms]

I tried pushing against every wall, found nada.


What is up with the flame?

See, that's what I wish I knew. If I were to guess, I would guess that the room I'm in actually isn't the real boss room, it's a trap and you have to get to the triforce piece through rooms that aren't shown. The flame is your only way to escape by letting you die and go back to the beginning of the dungeon. Either that, or it's a nasty bug.

What's funny is, I tried dying in the flame, going back to the beginning and came back to this room. When I got there, the flame had moved, it was in the center of the room. I roasted in the flame again, went back to the beginning and came back here again. The flame moved again, this time to the lower-left corner of the room. I thought I was on to some kind of puzzle and died again, went back to the start and came back here again, but the flame didn't move, it was in the same place it had been in the third time. That suggests there is probably some kind of bug in the works.


You could always look for the flag in memory (a cheat) for if all enemies are dead and the doors should be opened. And then set that to true. Or try to get a walk upwards through walls code. You could also cheat by changing the room number when in the room under that room, to the room number that is in, so that when you travel upward you skip over that room straight to the triforce room.

I don't have any experience with ROM editing, but opening up this toy in an editor would be a useful exercise. Even if I don't figure out how the level is supposed to play, at the very least I could see if there are hidden rooms in this "DMap" (or whatever the equivalent structure is for a rom hack) and then maybe it might turn out that Lord Steak forgot to open up one end of a passageway or some such.

[erm2003]

So the flame can't be "killed" like in the last room where you rescue Zelda?

[ctrl-alt-delete]

That was what I was asking.

Did you try killing the flame with a sword? Have you stood against the outside wall long enough to see if the hands come down to try and grab you?

[Russ]

As a veteran of ZC, I can offer some advice:
That flane probably can be killed. Try unloading all of your weapons on it.
Try using some of you items on those blocks.
Is there a possibility that it's a fake level, with no triforce peice at all?

[Cloral]

Honestly, I'd have to say that the explanation that it is a way out if you're trapped there seems most likely. That would mean that what you need to do in this room is dependent on something you could run out of - namely, bombs, arrows, candle flame, potions, rupees, or the sword beam.

Is there any possibility that there might be another entrance to the level?

[Sam Atoms]

Okay, I was in luck; my sav file from back in '04, where Zelda had all her weapons from the rest of the quest, was still around. The boss room is, in fact, impregnable. Nothing kills the fire, and none of Link's - - er, Zelda's weapons work on anything in the room or the walls. I couldn't help but finally follow the Mottzilla tack, and opened up the level in a dungeon editor.

The dungeon has no rooms that are "off the map". There is nothing in the boss room according to the ROM data. Implying from the shape of the blocks in the boss room, and the roaring sound you hear in the room before, I am 90% certain that it is a bug and the guy forgot to put the dungeon boss into the room. I went ahead and took the liberty to hack a two-headed gleeok into the boss room. When I opened it back up in the emulator and returned there again, sure enough, the gleeok was there, and the flame in the middle of the room was gone (Hmmmmz.......). Upon the defeat of the gleeok the doors opened, and I managed to acquire the third golden partition of power.

So there you have it. On Cinco de Mayo, Shin Zelda Densetsu is finally free.

[Russ]

Well, congrats on figuring it out. You know, this has given me an idea for use in ZC...

[Cloral]

After seeing the same question on other discussion forums, I was starting to think that must be the case. Congratulations on finishing what was no doubt a challenging zelda hack.

[Sam Atoms]

Thanks, but the jolly times aren't over - - because there is a second quest!

Nothing yet that I have gotten into, but from what I saw when I was "patching" the Mars boss room, the rearrangement of the levels will make it interesting for sure. I just hope there won't be more "forgotten bosses" that I'll have to go back in and fix. :cool:

[Russ]

Hey, tell me if it's worth playing when you're done with it. Due to the fact that I use ZC, I don't really do much Zelda 1 hacks. But if it's good, let me know. And send the fixed version. :)

[Nicholas Steel]

Shin Zelda Densetsu = Japanese version of LOZ? perhaps the bug exists in all the English versions of the game? :P

[AtmaWeapon]

Did you even read the thread? The very first sentence points out it's a Zelda ROM hack.

[Sam Atoms]

Well, I was playing the second quest today and while there haven't been any forgotten bosses (yet), there are bugs that disrupt the gameplay so seriously that I probably shouldn't go on without a bugfix. Lord Steak does warn that the second quest hasn't been completely bugtested in the readme that comes with the IPS patch. Well sure enough, there are issues there.

In the second quest 4th level, which corresponds to Venus (which also happens to be the first darknut level; what is it with this hack and early darknut levels?), the raft is in a passageway but it is unreachable, stuck in the wall. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with items being in passageways, it happens enough in this hack's first quest as well as in the Outlands that we know it can work. But here, the raft is misplaced, and so it's stuck in the wall where you can't get it. What's more, after you come up the other end of that passageway, where you come out after you're intended to get the raft on the way through, you end up stuck in the upper-left-hand corner of the screen. (Continue bug anyone?) Not in the upper-left-hand corner of the dungeon wall, but the corner of the screen, where your map display is. I could try to get around this with my dungeon editor but that would need more knowledge of obscure things about ROM editing than I care to learn. Besides, heaven only knows how many bugs of this nature are in the later levels.

I can't help but get the feeling that I'm the first one to ever get this far in SZD because as far as I know this hack hasn't been maintained by anyone at all. There's next to no discussion of it online, no official site, no boards, no nothing. Either Lord Steak or someone should have seen to it that this became better known, because a two-quest redesign of LOZ shouldn't have had these bugs sitting around for four years.

[bigjoe]

If its possible to bugfix it, it would probably be a favor to the guy and to those who are into rom hacks. I'm interested in playing it, by the way

[Nicholas Steel]

darknuts are easy as pie to kill so long as there is room to move, I struggle with deathknights because they are psycho and 8 blue darknuts in a room with atleast 1/3 of the room solid combo's unless theres a hammer somewhere :P

[ForestOfOctober]

Im having difficulty finding the items that are in these dungeons...

[ZTC]

I'll have to boot up my network server tomorrow and see if I have this hack on it, as I'm a bit interested in playing it. Have you made any attempt at contacting the author yet?

[Anthus]

In the second quest 4th level, which corresponds to Venus (which also happens to be the first darknut level; what is it with this hack and early darknut levels?)

Darknuts appeared in level three in the first Zelda.

[ForestOfOctober]

So any good recommendations for zelda level editors so i can fix lvl 3?

[erpster79]

Well, I was playing the second quest today and while there haven't been any forgotten bosses (yet), there are bugs that disrupt the gameplay so seriously that I probably shouldn't go on without a bugfix. Lord Steak does warn that the second quest hasn't been completely bugtested in the readme that comes with the IPS patch. Well sure enough, there are issues there.

In the second quest 4th level, which corresponds to Venus (which also happens to be the first darknut level; what is it with this hack and early darknut levels?), the raft is in a passageway but it is unreachable, stuck in the wall. Now there's nothing inherently wrong with items being in passageways, it happens enough in this hack's first quest as well as in the Outlands that we know it can work. But here, the raft is misplaced, and so it's stuck in the wall where you can't get it. What's more, after you come up the other end of that passageway, where you come out after you're intended to get the raft on the way through, you end up stuck in the upper-left-hand corner of the screen. (Continue bug anyone?) Not in the upper-left-hand corner of the dungeon wall, but the corner of the screen, where your map display is. I could try to get around this with my dungeon editor but that would need more knowledge of obscure things about ROM editing than I care to learn. Besides, heaven only knows how many bugs of this nature are in the later levels.

I can't help but get the feeling that I'm the first one to ever get this far in SZD because as far as I know this hack hasn't been maintained by anyone at all. There's next to no discussion of it online, no official site, no boards, no nothing. Either Lord Steak or someone should have seen to it that this became better known, because a two-quest redesign of LOZ shouldn't have had these bugs sitting around for four years.

yeah bummer. I too recently have interest in fixing a bunch of the problems with that game.
I've produced at least two bug fixed versions of SZD in my spare time. the second bug fix edition of SZD that I've just completed has the level 4 problems in the 2nd quest resolved. I converted the passageway from a two-way tunnel to a one-way tunnel in that level so that the raft can be collectible.

about that level 4 "out of place" problem in the 2nd quest that has Zelda being placed at the very top left hand corner of the screen. that also occurs in level 5 of the 2nd quest with two of the passageways there; btw, lvl 5 of the 2nd quest is in the same exact location of the overworld map as in the 1st quest. I was able to fix those lvl 5 problems as well.

now I just need to fix the problems with level 9 of the 2nd quest. one particular room in lvl 9 there seems to make the game crash when entering that room from the south. also if you enter lvl 9 in the 2nd quest without all 8 pieces of the triforce AND you enter the room with the old man not letting you pass w/out the full triforce, you'll be stuck there because all four shutter doors are closed and that shutter door that you went through from the lvl9 dungeon entrance closes behind you. only way to get out of lvl 9 is to use the continue/save code or commit suicide by attacking the old man and getting hit by those energy beams. I find that uncool to be stuck in lvl 9 there like that.


Im having difficulty finding the items that are in these dungeons...

if it seems that you have been to all the rooms, double-check, backtrack and try to push any walls or bomb them in any dungeon room. you may unexpectedly walk through a wall or a hole may appear when you bomb a wall and you will discover a room that you haven't been to before. I learned about this when playing Gamemakr24's Zelda Challenge Outlands hack. I eventually found all the essential items in all those dungeons in Shin Zelda Densetsu.


So any good recommendations for zelda level editors so i can fix lvl 3?

two of them I can recommend, ForestOfOctober. Euclid's Zelda 1 Dungeon Editor or Dungeon Master by iLab/snarfblam, the creator of Zelda Tech.

[Sam Atoms]

Hey, it's nice to see someone else who's serious about getting this to work. Here are a few places I'd recommend to let people know about your bugfix:

The Zophar Domain Forums
http://www.zophar.net/forums/

The Acmlm Forums
http://acmlm.kafuka.org/board/

The Badderhacks Forums
http://badderhacksnet.ipage.com/badderhacks/index.php?option=com_agora&Itemid=3
(SZD isn't really a badderhack, but I am most active there)

[erpster79]

sorry for not being here for several weeks. I've had a busy holiday schedule with my family and relatives. And I also had to re-do the first two bug-fixed releases of SZD that I made several times; I had to decide which fixes to include and which ones to leave out.

In the first bug fix release, I've added a new heart container room on the overworld map so that there will be a total of 5 heart containers to collect in the 1st quest instead of 4; look for the new heart container room in the overworld where you encounter 12 white Armos statues, touch one of them to reveal a stairway to access it. And I also fixed the missing level 3 boss problem in the 1st quest.

EDIT: removed links to bug fix release 1 of SZD. obtain the newer bug fix release in my latest post below.

[yuanyelss]

You could always look for the flag in memory for if all enemies are dead and the doors should be opened. And then set that to true. Or try to get a walk upwards through walls code.....

[erpster79]

You could always look for the flag in memory for if all enemies are dead and the doors should be opened. And then set that to true. Or try to get a walk upwards through walls code.....

um, I'm not sure what you are talking about, yuanyelss. be more specific in what your saying and where exactly the issue in the game is found.

Note to Sam Atoms: bug fix release 2 of Shin Zelda Densetsu is now ready. here are the sites to get them:
(zip file containing IPS patch file with changelog text file)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S8RZDIYD
http://www.sendspace.com/file/kpjeb0
(IPS patch file only; no changelog)
http://depositfiles.com/files/zx8ayr72h
http://www.fileserve.com/file/V7ZTUCw

You should now see a big difference in this one, especially the level 4 "out of place" problem and the "uncollectible" raft problem for the 2nd quest. go back to where level 4 is and to the hidden room where you collect the raft. it should now work as expected and now the 2nd quest should be able to be completed.

issues/problems remaining to fix for the next bug fix release:
-when entering level 9 (or level "Jupiter") in the 2nd quest [assuming you have not collected all 8 pieces of the Triforce] and you enter the room where the old man tells you if you don't have the Triforce, you won't go through the shutter doors, ALL FOUR shutter doors are permanently closed and you either have to use the Continue/Save/Retry code or let the old man zap you (until you're dead) to get out. UNCOOL!
-buying bombs at a merchant shop does NOT work correctly; you are supposed to receive 4 additional bombs when buying them but instead the bomb counter instantly goes to 0 [yup, you lose ALL your bombs when you touch the bomb item] and you hold the bomb item up high (as if you are collecting it); that sure feels like a 20 rupee "rip-off"
-there are a total of SIX heart containers that you can collect in the 2nd quest (not five); 3 of them can be found in the graveyard areas and the other 3 are found in far separated areas in the overworld; I will have to change one of the heart container rooms into something else

[Sam Atoms]

um, I'm not sure what you are talking about, yuanyelss. be more specific in what your saying and where exactly the issue in the game is found.

Note to Sam Atoms: bug fix release 2 of Shin Zelda Densetsu is now ready. here are the sites to get them:
(zip file containing IPS patch file with changelog text file)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S8RZDIYD
http://www.sendspace.com/file/kpjeb0
(IPS patch file only; no changelog)
http://depositfiles.com/files/zx8ayr72h
http://www.fileserve.com/file/V7ZTUCw

You should now see a big difference in this one, especially the level 4 "out of place" problem and the "uncollectible" raft problem for the 2nd quest. go back to where level 4 is and to the hidden room where you collect the raft. it should now work as expected and now the 2nd quest should be able to be completed.

issues/problems remaining to fix for the next bug fix release:
-when entering level 9 (or level "Jupiter") in the 2nd quest [assuming you have not collected all 8 pieces of the Triforce] and you enter the room where the old man tells you if you don't have the Triforce, you won't go through the shutter doors, ALL FOUR shutter doors are permanently closed and you either have to use the Continue/Save/Retry code or let the old man zap you (until you're dead) to get out. UNCOOL!
-buying bombs at a merchant shop does NOT work correctly; you are supposed to receive 4 additional bombs when buying them but instead the bomb counter instantly goes to 0 [yup, you lose ALL your bombs when you touch the bomb item] and you hold the bomb item up high (as if you are collecting it); that sure feels like a 20 rupee "rip-off"
-there are a total of SIX heart containers that you can collect in the 2nd quest (not five); 3 of them can be found in the graveyard areas and the other 3 are found in far separated areas in the overworld; I will have to change one of the heart container rooms into something else


Sounds like good work. If Lord Steak ever heard about this, he would be proud.

By the way, I tried the original (unbugfixed) hack in Macifom, just in case it made a difference in the level 3 boss room. Nope; looks like he really forgot to put in the dungeon boss for the room (which, I assume, should be a two-headed gleeok).

Which brings me to a good general tip for people making hacks, quests, or anything else. When you're ready to release your final version, before you do so, play-test it yourself from start to finish, just to make absolute sure it's beatable. Your players will have a much better attitude toward you if you don't vanish off into the night with a killing bug left in.

[Necrosaro420]

um, I'm not sure what you are talking about, yuanyelss. be more specific in what your saying and where exactly the issue in the game is found.

Note to Sam Atoms: bug fix release 2 of Shin Zelda Densetsu is now ready. here are the sites to get them:
(zip file containing IPS patch file with changelog text file)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=S8RZDIYD
http://www.sendspace.com/file/kpjeb0
(IPS patch file only; no changelog)
http://depositfiles.com/files/zx8ayr72h
http://www.fileserve.com/file/V7ZTUCw

You should now see a big difference in this one, especially the level 4 "out of place" problem and the "uncollectible" raft problem for the 2nd quest. go back to where level 4 is and to the hidden room where you collect the raft. it should now work as expected and now the 2nd quest should be able to be completed.

issues/problems remaining to fix for the next bug fix release:
-when entering level 9 (or level "Jupiter") in the 2nd quest [assuming you have not collected all 8 pieces of the Triforce] and you enter the room where the old man tells you if you don't have the Triforce, you won't go through the shutter doors, ALL FOUR shutter doors are permanently closed and you either have to use the Continue/Save/Retry code or let the old man zap you (until you're dead) to get out. UNCOOL!
-buying bombs at a merchant shop does NOT work correctly; you are supposed to receive 4 additional bombs when buying them but instead the bomb counter instantly goes to 0 [yup, you lose ALL your bombs when you touch the bomb item] and you hold the bomb item up high (as if you are collecting it); that sure feels like a 20 rupee "rip-off"
-there are a total of SIX heart containers that you can collect in the 2nd quest (not five); 3 of them can be found in the graveyard areas and the other 3 are found in far separated areas in the overworld; I will have to change one of the heart container rooms into something else


All of these links seem to be dead. Is there anohter place to get them? Thanks

[Necrosaro420]

Sounds like good work. If Lord Steak ever heard about this, he would be proud.

By the way, I tried the original (unbugfixed) hack in Macifom, just in case it made a difference in the level 3 boss room. Nope; looks like he really forgot to put in the dungeon boss for the room (which, I assume, should be a two-headed gleeok).

Which brings me to a good general tip for people making hacks, quests, or anything else. When you're ready to release your final version, before you do so, play-test it yourself from start to finish, just to make absolute sure it's beatable. Your players will have a much better attitude toward you if you don't vanish off into the night with a killing bug left in.


Is there any place else that has a fix for this? None of the links above work, and cant seem to find it. Thanks

[Chris Miller]

I used the Zelda Dungeon Editor to hack a Gleeok in place of the fire. It's pretty easy to do.
I may put a bugfixed version of it up on romhacking.net, if the author gives me permission.
(I'd normally say not to gravedig, but it's a relevant question).

[Necrosaro420]

I used the Zelda Dungeon Editor to hack a Gleeok in place of the fire. It's pretty easy to do.
I may put a bugfixed version of it up on romhacking.net, if the author gives me permission.
(I'd normally say not to gravedig, but it's a relevant question).



Ahhh nice. Any way I could get a copy of the fix from ya? Thanks!

[Chris Miller]

Ehh, we're not supposed to post roms on the forums.
Revise sus mensajes.

[Gleeok]

There's always good 'ol ips patches.

http://fusoya.eludevisibility.org/lips/

[Chris Miller]

I figured those would be frowned upon, so I PMed it to him.
Well, here's the fix, then. :)
(That's the same program I use to make patches. Damn good one.)
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?q6t6fav17ibza4c

Use it with the PRG-0 version of the rom. The PRG-1 version will have glitches.

[SUCCESSOR]

Nothing wrong with patches. The only thing you cannot do is link to ROMs or sites that specifically host ROMs. As I am sure you know the ROM is the IP of the respective company but patches, emulators, etc are made by fans and do not infringe on IP.

[Jinx]

Sorry to bump this thread again, but I was wondering if anyone has made a version with fixes for both the 1st and 2nd quest?

I downloaded Chris Miller's version from Romhacking.net (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/1303/) and, despite a few entrance/exit bugs, and that annoying "can't buy bombs" bug, I was able to complete the 1st quest.

However, I have come to level 4 in the second quest, and am experiencing the same issue as Sam Atomos described earlier in this thread (http://armageddongames.net/showthread.php?88259-Another-zelda-question-this-time-a-hack&p=838230&viewfull=1#post838230): the raft is unattainable, and the room it is found in is clearly buggy.

It's too bad Lord Steak apparently abandoned his project without even basic bugtesting, but it sure would be nice if we could finally put an end to all the bugs and get a working version of this hack.

[MasterSwordUltima]

Am I the only one bothered by the improper japanese? Shin Densetsu Zelda means Legend of Zelda New. Zeruda no Shin Densetsu　【ゼルだの新デンセツ】, or rather Zeruda no Aratana Densetsu 【ぜるだのあらたなでんせつ】 are both much closer to a proper title than just pseudo japanese words.

The more you know...

(edit)Except for some reason the second phrase was written in all hiragana, oops.(/edit)

[Jinx]

Well, I did contact Chris Miller last fall, and he fixed the second quest raft bug. However, we found more bugs subsequently. We stopped working on it after learning Darklink7884 was also working on it. His version is available here (http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/2192/). I have not personally tested it, but he details his edits in this YouTube playlist (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEVcLGvpb-_CyOtkPxK3p23CaIqHrNFmM), so I imagine it's pretty thorough.

Enjoy!