Only 29% Favor Universal Health Care

[Blisspath]

So if so few support socialized medicine, why are Hillary and Obama pushing it so hard? This poll gives me some hope that Americans have not totally embraced security over freedom. I think the few that do support it see it as having "someone else pay for their health insurance" I would like to see the poll divided into social/economical divisions.
http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/issues2/articles/29_favor_national_health_insurance_overseen_by_fed eral_government

[rock_nog]

Many Americans are fed up with our current, broken health care system. We've tried private-run health care, hasn't worked out so well for us (unless, of course, you're the kind of person who wipes his ass with $100 bills). It's fairly simple to understand.

[Blisspath]

Many Americans are fed up with our current, broken health care system. We've tried private-run health care, hasn't worked out so well for us (unless, of course, you're the kind of person who wipes his ass with $100 bills). It's fairly simple to understand.

So you think as a citizen of the US you are entitled to free health care? I don't see it in the Constitution..in fact many things that people consider entitlements(like government schooling) are not in there. There are tons of free clinics and pharmacies that will give you a RX for 4 bucks. Hospitals can not turn people away if they don't have insurance in emergency situations. Many people use the charitable system for their benefit now. There are people here who use ambulances as taxis to go downtown. They call for an ambulance go downtown to the hospital and then disappear before they can be treated.

[rock_nog]

So you think as a citizen of the US you are entitled to free health care? I don't see it in the Constitution..in fact many things that people consider entitlements(like government schooling) are not in there. There are tons of free clinics and pharmacies that will give you a RX for 4 bucks. Hospitals can not turn people away if they don't have insurance in emergency situations. Many people use the charitable system for their benefit now. There are people here who use ambulances as taxis to go downtown. They call for an ambulance go downtown to the hospital and then disappear before they can be treated.
I said the current system is broken, so why not try the only alternative? If it doesn't work out, we'll switch back to the current, broken system. WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE EVER JUST TRY SOMETHING OUT TO SEE HOW IT GOES!? I mean, for God's sake, I don't know if it'll work or not, but I know the current system doesn't, which is why I'm willing to try something new. It's not out of some sense of "entitlement." It's called experimentation... Our entire country was founded on an experiment.

Oh, and Thomas Jefferson himself was one of the original champions of the taxpayer-funded public school system, because though it was not guaranteed by the Constitution, he felt it was absolutely necessary to ensure the survival of democracy.

[Blisspath]

I said the current system is broken, so why not try the only alternative? If it doesn't work out, we'll switch back to the current, broken system. WHY THE HELL CAN'T WE EVER JUST TRY SOMETHING OUT TO SEE HOW IT GOES!? I mean, for God's sake, I don't know if it'll work or not, but I know the current system doesn't, which is why I'm willing to try something new. It's not out of some sense of "entitlement." It's called experimentation... Our entire country was founded on an experiment.

Oh, and Thomas Jefferson himself was one of the original champions of the taxpayer-funded public school system, because though it was not guaranteed by the Constitution, he felt it was absolutely necessary to ensure the survival of democracy.
I know of no government program or entitlement that ever just goes away..they just keep failing and getting larger. I am a big follower of Jeffersonian democracy and like the man very much but he would not approve of the "outcome based education" that our schools are using today. In fact he thought that schools should be very competitive with only the best and the brightest admitted to higher education.
http://www.bigeye.com/schoolin.htm

[rock_nog]

Yes, I'm fully aware of Jefferson's philosophy of education... I'm just saying, without him, we would have no public education, and with no public education, most of the population would continue to go uneducated, with no chance of upwards social mobility, and the post-industrial economy that we live in today simply wouldn't be feasible.

[Beldaran]

with no public education, most of the population would continue to go uneducated, with no chance of upwards social mobility,

I think that's true with public education as well.

Public education fails to help struggling kids, and it suppresses excellent kids. It's a gigantic waste of money that will never end because the bureaucracy itself has become a living organism of stupidity that constantly demands more money.

Also, I'm against free health care because a) nothing is free and b) I don't want to die of treatable diseases because I'm waiting in government lines for surgery like in Canada. Every year several hundred people in Canada die because the government ran out of health care money and they have to wait for the next year for surgery. Well, when your kidney explodes, you can't exactly wait 4 months to get it fixed.

[rock_nog]

I think that's true with public education as well.

Public education fails to help struggling kids, and it suppresses excellent kids. It's a gigantic waste of money that will never end because the bureaucracy itself has become a living organism of stupidity that constantly demands more money.

Also, I'm against free health care because a) nothing is free and b) I don't want to die of treatable diseases because I'm waiting in government lines for surgery like in Canada. Every year several hundred people in Canada die because the government ran out of health care money and they have to wait for the next year for surgery. Well, when your kidney explodes, you can't exactly wait 4 months to get it fixed.
Got any evidence to back that up? It's easy to blast the public school system, and yes, it could be much improved, but nobody ever stops to put things into a historical context. I mean, bitch all you want, but most of the population can read and write, and few people realize what an achievement that is.

EDIT: Oh, and on the flip side of the health care coin, Beldaran, I don't want to die because my doctor decides that skipping a simple blood test is more cost effective. My grandma went to the hospital, had a serious medical condition, but the preliminary diagnosis was that it was nothing major. Ideally, you should perform blood tests to be sure, but the doctor was confident in his diagnosis, and so decided to skip that step (because under our current health care system, that would've come out of his paycheck).

[Archibaldo]

Also, I'm against free health care because a) nothing is free and b) I don't want to die of treatable diseases because I'm waiting in government lines for surgery like in Canada. Every year several hundred people in Canada die because the government ran out of health care money and they have to wait for the next year for surgery. Well, when your kidney explodes, you can't exactly wait 4 months to get it fixed.

Well the thing about the free health care is that it can save people from serious diseases. In the states you need to pay for a check up, therefore many skip the check ups and only go when it's serious because a lot of they time they can't afford it or don't want to pay money for possibly nothing. Then when it does get serious and they finally go to the doctor, it's either too late or will cost more than the check up they should have had. Because we have free health care, we can go in every once in a while and get blood tests to see how healthy we are and stuff. With a regular check up you can get on the waiting list for a kidney before it explodes.

[mikeron]

Side note: 29% is apparently the portion of Americans who can be classified as "Meddlesome Busybodies".

[Breaker]

I work hard and pay my premiums to keep myself insured and healthy. This isn't so much a problem as it is people wanting free healthcare.. in other words, a fucking handout. I have no sympathy for the unemployed or 35 yearold hamburger flipper. If they want insurance for themselves and their families, then they need to learn a valuable skill and get a better job.

[rock_nog]

I object - who the hell's gonna flip my hamburgers then? Not that I eat fast food that often, but it's nice to know its there. I mean, what you're calling for is nothing short of an economic revolution - the abolishment of all menial labor. Which actually, come to think about it, might be coming anyway, assuming the robot revolution ever takes off. Hadn't thought about it like that.

[Breaker]

I mean, what you're calling for is nothing short of an economic revolution - the abolishment of all menial labor.


huh? nowhere did I say anything like that. if your idea of debating, which i'm not doing with you btw, is just to offer extremely exaggerated counter examples, then you're going to find it very difficult for people to take you seriously. how did you go from an opinion of mine as simple as "if you want better healthcare, get a better job" to an economic revolution and the abolishment of all menial labor? i can't even begin to understand your thinking process... you really have no idea how to partake in a discussion. everything is an arguement or a debate. learn some social etiquette before posting again, please.

[rock_nog]

What in God's name are you talking about? Who said anything about debating? I was merely speculating - seriously, can I offer an opinion without it being an attempt to prove you wrong? And wrong about what? I mean, I didn't disagree with you on anything.

[Freedom]

What in God's name are you talking about? Who said anything about debating? I was merely speculating - seriously, can I offer an opinion without it being an attempt to prove you wrong? And wrong about what? I mean, I didn't disagree with you on anything.

I hate to agree with Breaker about anything, but he's got you pegged.
Do you just forget about all your other posts each time you make a new one?
You disagree with breaker about EVERYTHING, you spent the last several months telling me I owe you health care and free public transportation.

[rock_nog]

Freedom, I've said this before, but I wasn't actually serious regarding my stance on universal health care. I never was. I play devil's advocate because I can think of some reasons to support it, but I don't actually believe that you should be forced to pay for someone's health care against your will.

It was, in fact, a comment made in jest, and at any rate, I don't see how it goes against Breaker's stance, even if you were to take it seriously. He merely said that people in menial labor positions need to work hard and get out of those positions. I said that he was calling for the abolishment of menial labor. How is that disagreeing with him? It's exaggerating his point, to be sure, but I don't see how that translates into going against it.

EDIT: I mean, eventually, there will have to be a revolution, won't there? Because eventually, robots will probably be developed that are capable of performing menial labor. I mean, we've already seen robots replace menial human labor in a lot of industries - it's only a matter of time before we build robots capable of doing the same in the service industry.