WoW bot maker sued after home visit from Vivendi attorney

[Prrkitty]

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080327-wow-bot-maker-sued-after-home-visit-from-vivendi-attorney.html

I've not played WoW yet. But I thought those of you that do would be interested in this article.

[Dark Knight]

I've heard of this and I can say I'm glad though I doubt much will come of it. I get so tired of competing with users of WoW Glider for mobs. It's not so bad when the class the bot is using is of the melee variety but most I come across are capable of tagging a mob long before I can ever get to it. These things damage the in-game economy by either over saturating the market with once rare drops(drastically lowering the prices on these items, making it harder to sell them) or by selling the gold they "earn" to other players(drastically raising the prices on items).

My question is, why pay the $15 a month to "play" WoW if you're just gonna run a program that plays the game for you?

As a side note, I've been to Glider's forums and there's always a thread or two about Warden and its many updates and warnings for when Warden does something it hasn't done in the past(meaning something was updated). The maker can talk out of his ass all day long but in the end he knows he broke the ToS and the EULA. I mean, why would you warn your customers that Warden was updated(how they manage to find out it was updated is beyond me) if what you're doing is legit?

[DarkDragoonX]

Now, I am wholeheartedly against bots. This must be understood. I hate people who ruin MMO economies and get in the way of legitimate players using an automated tool.

On the other hand, you have to think, why do people use these tools? Consider MMO terms... they're actually all quite negative... you farm. You grind. When I earned the ~5k gold to buy my epic flying mount, it was boring as hell and consisted of either:

A. Making a loop through a zone mining ore.
or
B. Killing thousands of elementals for primals.

Then I had to do all that AGAIN for my second character. Dozens of hours of work in a game... not fun, work, for a relatively small payoff.

Leveling is much the same, especially post-BC. None of the content pre-BC matters anymore. The gear becomes so much better as soon as you reach the outlands that it's quite literally a complete waste of time to do pre-BC dungeons... the only thing that matters is reaching 70 as fast as possible. Then when you do hit 70, you have to grind again, as PvE and PvP players who have been around for a while are both so much stronger than you are that you can't really play with them until you spend even MORE time bringing your character up to par, whether it be doing BGs and arenas for PvP gear or raiding/crafting your way to t5-level loot. Only at that point can you really start playing the current game.

Is it any wonder that people want to be able to skip as much of it as possible? We're talking spending dozens, even hundreds, of hours doing boring, menial tasks before you can even START to have fun. I *like* many MMOs and even *I* think that amount of shit you have to slog through before you can really start playing the game is absurd. And the longer a game has been around, the further a game's core population has progressed, the worse it gets.

Bots shouldn't be allowed in any way, shape, or form, but the problem won't go away simply by banning it. MMO developers need to take a long, hard look at what drives the people playing their games to use bots to begin with.

[Masamune]

My question is, why pay the $15 a month to "play" WoW if you're just gonna run a program that plays the game for you?

I thought about that, and then I canceled my account.

[Breaker]

I sold my account for almost $1400 pre burning crusade. That's what I call "winning" the game.

[Masamune]

I sold my account for almost $1400 pre burning crusade. That's what I call "winning" the game.

What all did you have that was worth almost $1,400?

[Revfan9]

Now, I am wholeheartedly against bots. This must be understood. I hate people who ruin MMO economies and get in the way of legitimate players using an automated tool.

On the other hand, you have to think, why do people use these tools? Consider MMO terms... they're actually all quite negative... you farm. You grind. When I earned the ~5k gold to buy my epic flying mount, it was boring as hell and consisted of either:

A. Making a loop through a zone mining ore.
or
B. Killing thousands of elementals for primals.

Then I had to do all that AGAIN for my second character. Dozens of hours of work in a game... not fun, work, for a relatively small payoff.

Leveling is much the same, especially post-BC. None of the content pre-BC matters anymore. The gear becomes so much better as soon as you reach the outlands that it's quite literally a complete waste of time to do pre-BC dungeons... the only thing that matters is reaching 70 as fast as possible. Then when you do hit 70, you have to grind again, as PvE and PvP players who have been around for a while are both so much stronger than you are that you can't really play with them until you spend even MORE time bringing your character up to par, whether it be doing BGs and arenas for PvP gear or raiding/crafting your way to t5-level loot. Only at that point can you really start playing the current game.

Is it any wonder that people want to be able to skip as much of it as possible? We're talking spending dozens, even hundreds, of hours doing boring, menial tasks before you can even START to have fun. I *like* many MMOs and even *I* think that amount of shit you have to slog through before you can really start playing the game is absurd. And the longer a game has been around, the further a game's core population has progressed, the worse it gets.

Bots shouldn't be allowed in any way, shape, or form, but the problem won't go away simply by banning it. MMO developers need to take a long, hard look at what drives the people playing their games to use bots to begin with.

This is why MMOs = Epic Failure :/

Seriously, I barely play the games that I do even buy. I may spend maybe an hour every week actually gaming. And that's the games that are FUN. I can't even imagine how insanely boring it would be to have to level grind for 300+ hours before I can actually start playing for real.

[ShadowTiger]

It's why I play on Private Servers, only.

Higher XP rates on the servers which offer them mean spending far less time grinding for levels. Higher item / gold drop rates mean you don't have to spend as much time farming.
Far, far lower population means you get to do these things in relative peace, while being able to interact with anyone however you see fit.
The possibility to become a GM. :p (Though don't think it's all fun and games (http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=35003).) Keyword: "Possibility." You can't have that kind of freedom in WoW unless you're playing on non-retail.
New experiences, new friends, new items, new mounts, ...
Fun Servers exist, which provide variation to gameplay and development. (Assuming there is any development.)
Bugs prevent you from spending even more hours of your life on it anyway.
Ultimately, it occupies the same time I'd be gaming anyway, without needing to buy another game.

[AtmaWeapon]

The interesting part about this case is they are not suing for any EULA or TOS violation, they are suing for copyright. The charge itself is ridiculous, because Glider doesn't use any of Blizzard's copyrights, but this move is genius for Blizzard.

Part of why Glider is effective is Blizzard has a hard time detecting it; whatever it does can slip under the radar. If the case moves forward, then Mr. Donnelly is obligated to provide proof that he does not, in fact, use any of Blizzard's copyright. How does he prove this? He has to provide his source to prove everything is independent. Once submitted as evidence, the source is part of the court record, which is public.

If the case goes forward, Blizzard can find how he's defeating Warden. That's proabably as far as they feel like taking it.

I really don't understand botting with respect to serious players. There's three boring parts about an MMO:

First, there's the boring part when you are weak and can't do anything. The reason people make it past this phase is because 90% of the game's content is still new, so the introduction of storylines and advancement of your character keeps you going.

Second, there's the boring part where you have seen most of the new content and it takes hours of grinding to get to the next new content. Most people make it through this point because they either feel like they've already invested a lot in the character and it would be wasteful to quit or because the high-end content is compelling enough to justify it.

Finally, there's the point where you have hit the level/skill cap and you are wealthy. The only thing that remains at this point is to mercilessly farm for the few super-rare items that represent the only improvement you can make at this point. People tend to keep playing at this point to stay in touch with friends, and the sunken cost fallacy keeps them going. "I've already spent 4 months on this character; if I quit I'll lose all that work!"

The real reason why people bot is because gold has real (http://www.game4power.com/?gclid=CKm6v635spICFQMqswod72eoRg) value (http://wow.igxe.com/WOW/cheap-WOW-Gold-WorldofWarcraft-igxe-1140.html?gclid=CKiu1Zz5spICFQTWsgod7kCRRg). Even though most MMOs make it against the TOS to trade in-game items for real money, people do it. If you could run a bot while you're at work and turn that into an extra $50 or $100 per week, would you be motivated to do so? I know I would.

This site takes the cake (http://www.wowmine.com/?gclid=CMOOgYv6spICFQJdswodWX37QQ) for reaching new lows. If you click on the "Truth about Gold Farming" article, you'll be taken to a page where they have a list of 30-year-old pictures of impoverished people in China and an explanation that by buying gold, you are giving these people hope! That's got to be the most brazen take on it I've ever seen.

[War Lord]

I've used programs like Glider for Ultima Online. Uo Game Masters would pretty much look for players who had been logged in for a while. Then go check up on them while being invisible. if they appeared to really be AFK, they'd appear and try to talk to the player. if the player didn't respond, they'd get sent to jail and banned for however long their account deemed.

Which is why I can't believe Blizzard can't do this. The guy making Glider isn't doing anything wrong. The players using glider however are.

[MottZilla]

Yes but they want to cut off the head and end it rather than hack at the limbs. I think Atma is right. It's just a move to get information to block it. But who cares. WoW, like most MMORPGs, sucks. The MMORPG is a pay to play structure, thus they want to find just the right scale to keep you sucking their tits as long as possible. That is why MMORPGs are so slow. That is why they suck.

Save your money for REAL games. Go buy a fucking NES or something. I've used a bot in the past for Ragnarok Online (the game was a free beta at some point). I forget if I ever got it to work, but you'd be a fool not to use one. It's the only hope you have of getting through the horrible curve of loot and experience.

Breaker does sound like one of the few people to win WoW.

[AlexMax]

Despite taking the moral high ground, Blizzard is clearly not the one you want to be rooting for here. And to any disgruntled WoW players who want to see Blizzard win, stop thinking with your purpz, the ramifications of this case extend far beyond your little imaginary playground. If they win, we get to deal with the shitty ramifications of the case, which would make peeking at memory locations of programs you run on your own computer illegal, and the strengthening of the EULA as a tool to sucker consumers out of their rights as a consumer.

Besides, if there is a market of players who want to level to 70 with zero effort, they will get what they want, and there is nothing Blizzard can do about it. Even if they somehow manage to win the case and shut down Glider, the void will simply be filled by botmakers from other countries selling bots from overseas websites hosted in countries that don't really give a shit about intellectual property.

[Breaker]

What all did you have that was worth almost $1,400?

Glitch and I were the top two hunters on our server once upon a time before The Burning Crusade was released. I had full tier 2 and 3 epic sets of armor and abunch of other crap. I sold it at a time when people were paying a lot. Now it's not worth nearly as much.

[Beldaran]

I sold my account for almost $1400 pre burning crusade. That's what I call "winning" the game.

So that's like what, $2 an hour? Minus all the monthly fees you paid (hundreds of dollars)? Way to go Donald Trump. :)

[Breaker]

So that's like what, $2 an hour? Minus all the monthly fees you paid (hundreds of dollars)? Way to go Donald Trump. :)

Huh? I got way more than what I paid in monthly fees back and sold the account at a time when I was no longer interested in playing anymore. The time I did spend playing was very entertaining. There is nothing even remotely comparable to what end-game raiding is like in WOW, leading groups of 40 people on 3-4 hour dungeon crawls. That was well over a year ago though and I haven't picked up another MMO since. It donned on me that I could put the commitment I was into videogames into making real money and I've been working and living pretty comfortably ever since. ;)

[Master Ghaleon]

I still play WoW, I just cannot seem to get away from it. I leveled a priest and a mage to 70 on Mannoroth and now in the process of leveling a rogue now. Rogues seem to be a bitch to level but it gives me some knowledge of being a rogue is all about.

When I played UO, I did use a mining bot. When I would goto bed I would set it up and run it til I woke up. Sometimes it would work perfectly or sometimes I would be stuck and not really get much of anything.

[Fira]

i nevar played WOW because I dont' want to pay 15 dollars a motnh to do something I can do better on runescape you guys really should look into ruescape its free and also better than WOW.

[Prrkitty]

More info about the lawsuit between Blizzard and bot maker company MDY.

--------------------------
Article dated May 7, 2008:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080507-blizzard-attempt-to-kill-wow-bot-bad-news-for-copyright-law.html