Global Cooling?

[Blisspath]

I'll admit I'm a little skeptical about man made global warming. Do we suck at taking care of the Earth? yes definitely..but I've read so many articles about how little of the total CO2 released into the atmosphere is a direct result of humans(3.5%) but I'm also a hiker and can see what air pollution has done to the mountains near my city. I read a report today that suggests that we could be heading into an ice age and another article that said that January was 0.3 degrees below normal. I'm not sure whether to cut my carbon footprint or burn fossil fuels like crazy to keep warm.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/rss-satellite-data-for-jan08-2nd-coldest-january-for-the-planet-in-15-years/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4248062.html

This is a good documentary by the head scientist for the IPCC's climate change report. He has done a total 180 on the subject.
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle

[Cloral]

Hi everybody! I'm Blisspath and I work for the big oil comapnies! Everybody please listen to what I say because I'm not biased at all!

Didn't the people at Forum Plant, Inc teach you at all? You can't just hop onto a forum and put up a few obvious posts and expect people to just believe you. You have to spend time building up cred, and then make your posts a bit less obvious.

Here's five bucks, go buy a fucking clue.

[phattonez]

Do you think that the only skepticism comes from oil companies?

[Blisspath]

Actually I don't work for an oil company..I'm a medical ethics professor, sports columnist, and a pharmacy consultant..I'm just anti big government waste and I am an environmentalist..but thanks for the personal attack! I always cite sources in my posts so I really don't need credibility. I'm just opening up a debate, if you want to argue the documentary we can but apparently you just like to attack people instead of debating.

[Cloral]

No I don't like people who jump onto the forums and try to push their agenda without establishing a reputation first. There are a lot of advertisers who masquerade as forum members across the internet and you strike me as one of them, considering the tone of both this thread and the one you made about Exxon's tax payment. Either that, or you are one of the world's biggest idiots. So either way, it doesn't really look that good for you I'm afraid.

[Pineconn]

I read a report today that suggests that we could be heading into an ice age and another article that said that January was 0.3 degrees below normal.

Honestly, you can't compare year to year like that. :p

People don't realize that the Earth is doing its own thing. Some other inexplicable variable may be occurring that we don't take account for. The educated, misinformed, ignorant, biased, fooled, or pessimistic quickly blame the cause to be to humans, but few consider the possibility that the Earth may be slowly drifting away/closer to the sun, or that a possible cause of this alleged "global warming" may be due to volcanoes, extraterrestrial events, etc.

Here's something to ponder:

From about three-fourths of a billion to 20 million years ago, the Earth was covered by ice. Slowly the Earth began to warm until how it is today. But how did it warm up? Clearly, the cause was not due to human activities (e.g. the Industrial Revolution). If the Earth has warmed up during the past 20 million years until now, is it really rational to blame humans for today's global warming?

[Blisspath]

personal attack number two! How about this if you don't like what I post then hit the ignore button...if you want to debate the video I will debate the video..this forum is for general discussion and debate..I'm just throwing out subjects..if someone has an opinion fine if not fine also. What I'm saying when I post is "this is what I think tell me what you think" Sometimes through debate I have changed my opinion after reading what someone else has said about the subject and I never attack anyone personally.

[phattonez]

The Earth goes through phases. Ever hear of the Little Ice Age? Yeah, I don't put much stock in the idea that humans are causing this. To me, it's just a scare tactic used by environmental groups.

Al Gore did not deserve the Nobel Prize, IMHO.

[Blisspath]

Al Gore is a huge hypocrite..there is a reason why he lost Tennessee in the 2000 election...we know him!..He would say one thing here and then get before a more liberal crowd and say the opposite..I don't mind someone disagreeing with me but be consistent is all I ask in a candidate. He talked about huge tobacco companies when that is how his family made their money..He talked about the need to conserve energy and explore alternative energy uses while he was burning fossil fuels in private jets..he is getting rich by using using iffy science to scare people.
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=5072659

[Rijuhn]

Wow, I just watched the entire documentary and all I can say is EXACTLY! I implore everyone, EVERYONE to watch this documentary. Now I will offically turn away from anyone who tries to spew that global warming crap at me. Being in college means I deal with fear-driven anti-establishment enviro-hippies quoting outlandish statistics that are based off of bad scientific models.

I get a headache even just trying to talk about it. I'm going outside, screw all this political crap.

Last thing: The global warming scare is keeping Africa and other developing countries poor. It's true, watch the documentary.

[The_Amaster]

quoting outlandish statistics that are based off of bad scientific models.
Just out of curiosity, how can you be sure that the statistics and models in that documentery are any better? Oh, wait, I forgot...because they agree with your point of view.

Now I'm not supporting the GW theory, just pointing out one of those facets of human nature.

[Pineconn]

I think the point is that this subject is just like the debate on creation or evolution: there is not enough irrefutable evidence to go either way, and there will never be. This seems to be the most rational answer to me. Besides, it's not like it'll matter. We'll all be dead by the year 2013. :D

(Wow, that was a great way to follow up my smartest post ever.)

[Aegix Drakan]

Besides, it's not like it'll matter. We'll all be dead by the year 2013. :D

Well, aren't we pessimistic today...

[phattonez]

I thought that 2011 is when the Mayans predicted the end of the world.

[rock_nog]

2011... 2013... Somewhere in that general ballpark, anyway. Either way, I agree, we'll all be dead soon, so no sense worrying about. Generally, I don't buy into those apocolypse theories, but I gotta give the Mayans some credit, they do know a thing or two about being wiped out.

*ahem* Anyway, my thoughts on global warming - firstly, assuming we do survive the upcoming end of the world, since we really don't know either way, it seems to me that the reasonable approach is to not take chances and cut down on our freakin' air pollution. Besides, I think we can all appreciate cleaner air even if it isn't a life-or-death situation. No one enjoys choking on car exhaust and factory smoke and smog and such.

Secondly, we have to think about our fossil fuel reserves. Now as for coal, okay, that might be around for a while, so I guess we can continue nasty coal-burning for electricity, but it's really looking that at the rate we're going, oil's gonna become economically unviable pretty darn soon (well, in a matter of decades, anyway). Let's face it, we are gonna have to come to terms with the fact that we can't just keep relying on oil forever. Something's gotta give, and I think from a stability point of view, it'd make much more sense to go ahead and switch to other energy sources now, while it isn't a necessity, so that we can make a smooth transition. Plus, there's the whole thing with the Middle East to consider.

Finally - yes, the Earth's climate does change naturally. Things go in phases. I am perfectly willing to admit that things can change drastically without us even lifting a finger. However, look at the potential causes of these changes - I say potential, because the fact of the matter is, there are so many different variables that affect the Earth's climate that it's incredibly difficult to pinpoint which one or ones were responsible for various changes. We are looking at an incredibly complex, dynamic system where, wherein there are a multitude of variables that affect not just the final outcome, but they affect each other, as well. To an extent, sure, the climate can be self-regulating, but then again, sometimes the climate can fluctuate wildly. In the end, yeah, maybe you can argue that Man's influence on the environment is only a small nudge (though I might disagree with that - it seems nearly impossible to see anything that hasn't been in some way influenced by our presence on this planet). However, because of the nature of the Earth's climate, a small nudge could easily set in motion a cascade of events that leads to a major climate change.

I apologize - this ended up being more of an essay than I had intended. Just, there were a few points that I felt had to be brought up.

[phattonez]

*ahem* Anyway, my thoughts on global warming - firstly, assuming we do survive the upcoming end of the world, since we really don't know either way, it seems to me that the reasonable approach is to not take chances and cut down on our freakin' air pollution. Besides, I think we can all appreciate cleaner air even if it isn't a life-or-death situation. No one enjoys choking on car exhaust and factory smoke and smog and such.

I agree that all pollutants should be cut back, but the scare tactics that environmental groups are using are just wrong. We should all want a healthier world; saying that we will all die if we don't is an immoral way of promoting an agenda.



Secondly, we have to think about our fossil fuel reserves. Now as for coal, okay, that might be around for a while, so I guess we can continue nasty coal-burning for electricity, but it's really looking that at the rate we're going, oil's gonna become economically unviable pretty darn soon (well, in a matter of decades, anyway). Let's face it, we are gonna have to come to terms with the fact that we can't just keep relying on oil forever. Something's gotta give, and I think from a stability point of view, it'd make much more sense to go ahead and switch to other energy sources now, while it isn't a necessity, so that we can make a smooth transition. Plus, there's the whole thing with the Middle East to consider.

That's the Peak Oil Theory, and not many people know about it, but they definitely should.

[matthew986]

I'll admit I'm a little skeptical about man made global warming. Do we suck at taking care of the Earth? yes definitely..but I've read so many articles about how little of the total CO2 released into the atmosphere is a direct result of humans(3.5%) but I'm also a hiker and can see what air pollution has done to the mountains near my city. I read a report today that suggests that we could be heading into an ice age and another article that said that January was 0.3 degrees below normal. I'm not sure whether to cut my carbon footprint or burn fossil fuels like crazy to keep warm.
http://wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/rss-satellite-data-for-jan08-2nd-coldest-january-for-the-planet-in-15-years/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/earth/4248062.html

This is a good documentary by the head scientist for the IPCC's climate change report. He has done a total 180 on the subject.
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle

The global cooling theory was a result of putting too many aerosols into the environment. The cooling trend expected is pretty consonant with established science regarding aerosols, but is not as powerful as the warming effects of the greenhouse.

So if you want, ignoring all the other adverse effects it would have on our environment, we could release enough aerosols in proportion to carbon emissions for a net change of zero. :)

For a good commentary on climate science from climate scientists with political and other biases minimized, please check out the blog http://www.realclimate.org/

[rock_nog]

Haha, life potentially imitates Futurama.

Fry: I'm glad global warming never happened.
Leela: Actually it did, but nuclear winter cancelled it out.

[Archibaldo]

Lol, there's snow if Afghanistan.

[bigjoe]

Didn't the people at Forum Plant, Inc teach you at all? You can't just hop onto a forum and put up a few obvious posts and expect people to just believe you. You have to spend time building up cred, and then make your posts a bit less obvious.

Or, you could spend time losing cred, and surprise people with something profound. Its better for someone to agree with you if normally they disagree. That way, the agreements you do have are made stronger. Its like faking you're not going to win at Street Fighter, picking the weakest character and using the stupidest techniques. But then at the very end, letting it all out in a big wave and obliterating them, since they have made the assumption that you cannot play, BUT YOU REALLY CAN. Sagat's good for that, by the way.

[Pineconn]

It's like faking you're not going to win at Street Fighter, picking the weakest character and using the stupidest techniques. But then at the very end, letting it all out in a big wave and obliterating them, since they have made the assumption that you cannot play, BUT YOU REALLY CAN. Sagat's good for that, by the way.

That's called "hustling" I believe. :p