AGN Expo brainstorming

[Pineconn]

I've seemly spurred some brainstorming for an AGN Expo (code name "AGNX") that will showcase quests, scripts, and other ZC-related resources that are in-the-making. There has been some thinking going on in the Winter Quest Contest (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1158283#post1158283) voting thread.

So far, we've come up with this basic plan:

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_start.gif AGN Expo
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Quests
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Scripts
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Graphics and Music

The AGNX should commence every winter and summer (to avoid coincidence with PureZC's Spring and Autumn Expos). Also, we've decided that each quest thread should simply inform the public of what's going on -- not to rate it. Instead, I think there will be a "What was the best quest (etc.)?" poll at the end of the exhibition.

Let the brainstorming begin!

[Joe123]

So where are we having the forum then?

As a sub-forum to ZC discussion or a seperate one in it's own right?

[Pineconn]

Well... I don't know. There are two purposeful possibilities, as you mentioned.

1) Its own forum, like General Discussion or ZC Bugs
2) Its own sub-forum, like Script Request or Political Debate

Honestly, I think it should have its own forum. Otherwise, it would be far too invisible from the public.

Next on the agenda would be under what grouping it should be. Should it be under Official Announcements (probably not), General, or Zelda Classic? Logic would say Zelda Classic, but it may get more publicity under General (or Official Announcements).

[Joe123]

No no, it would get most publicity by far in Zelda Classic, because there are a fair few users (and guests who may one day be users) that only know about the Zelda Classic part of the forums; if you view from www.zeldaclassic.com, then you're locked into those forums.

Perhaps it should have an announcement aswell though.

[Pineconn]

Very true. I agree that it should be under Zelda Classic (the very first slot?). Also, an announcement would be optimal (in both the ZC site and in the forums).

[Joe123]

Wacha mean by the very first slot?

In the Zelda Classic group, but in it's own forum above ZC Discussion?

[The_Amaster]

Yeah, think that's what he means. Makes the most sense.

Ideas wise, I wouldn't mind a contest for dungeoneering. My quest isn't anywhere near completion, but I would definitely enter a dungeon or two into a competition. An overworld competiton, in which people enter a themed area (Forest, Lake, Desert) etc. below a certain size would be fun too. (And yes, I'm really for these two. I'll do whatever's needed to convince the powers that be (whatever they be) to do these.)

Anyway, awesome idea. If theres anything I can do to help, just ask. Free time is wonderful.

[Pineconn]

Yeah, I meant right above the ZC Discussion slot. Either that or the very last slot (below Open ZC Bugs).

Dungeoneering, eh? Well, the AGNX will showcase quests-in-the-making (as well as scripts, etc.), meaning they can be very small. In other words, as long as you submit at least a small demo (which is what we'll debate over next), it'll be great. And a story, screenshots, etc.

So yeah, what would be the requirements? For quests, should the author be forced to submit a demo, or just screenshots and text? I'd have to vote for the latter. For E3 or E For All, some game developers will just announce a new game rather than have a demo to play as well.

[The_Amaster]

Hmm, unfortunately Pineconn I have to disagree with you on both counts.

-If the Dungeoneering/OWSamples are in a "in the making" then you have small mini full quests, quests that are half finished, dungeons, and OW samples, to say the least. We need some more sub catagories, like "Dungeons", "Themed Overworlds", "Mini Full Quests", and "Works in Progress"

-As for the real quests, I think we need at least some small demo to show off gameplay. Graphics/art are about all you can get from a screenshot, it doesn't really show off gameplay, such as wheather the designer is good at puzzle making, or other stuff.

Maybe were not thinking the same thing. When I think ZC Expo, my idea is kind of an art gallery in which the various people show off their best work.

[Joe123]

Maybe were not thinking the same thing. When I think ZC Expo, my idea is kind of an art gallery in which the various people show off their best work.

Nono, we don't need to have a demo.
Screenshots and relevant info, to let people know what's being worked on at the moment was my idea of what it was.

Not an art gallery of past works.

[The_Amaster]

Sorry, bad example there. Art Gallery is misleading in two ways.
First of all, by art I didn't mean screenshots only or anything. I was just comparing how, say a painter works with oils and canvas the same way a designer works in ZC. "Art" would be actual interactive product.
Not past works either. I meant like, stuff created for the expo. Like "Heres a chance to show us what you can do. Enter stuff"

EDIT: Pineconn and I are talking on AIM, and for your idea Joe we're discussing a catagory for "upcoming works", pretty much exactly what your talking about.

EDIT2: After further discussion, we've realized that we should avoid over-catagorization. If we get enough sumbmisions to merit a bunch of sub catagories, well then....

You guy's thoughts?

[Pineconn]

Maybe we're still not on the same page...

The Expo's entries should be things that are being worked on now. None of the entries should be "look at what I can do" things. For example, I would show my EoT remake, and you would show off your quest that you've been tinkering with and scrapping. Nobody should create quests, scripts, graphics, or music just for the sake of AGNX.

Well, I feel like we're getting somewhere. This is great for a day's work.

[The_Amaster]

Interesting. Well, I'm going to wait for someone else to chime in before saying anything else.

[elise]

If you want the attention from players put it in the normal quest discussion forum
Thats the place players go to , I never even noticed that the winter contest was going on here , and don't place it like a sub forum just make sticky threads ;)

[Pineconn]

I think I've thought up of a good idea. When you first click on the AGN Expo forum, it'll show the sub-forums. Below it will be the official rules thread and (idea alert) a screenshot contest thread. Basically, it's just a thread where anyone can post nice screenshots that they've made. It's essentially like PureZC's SotW/M or AGN's screenshot thread in the Quest Discussion forum, but more of a formal contest. Yes? No?

[The_Amaster]

AGN SCotW? Cool. Not as part of the official seasonal expo, but just a running thing like at PZC sounds good. If some people can submit a few screenshots, we could have one up for next week.

[Pineconn]

Well, as cool as these ideas sound, we'd need someone to do it. None of us have any forum power, maybe a ZC mod or DD will do it. All I can do is post a message on ZC's homepage.

[Joe123]

Why'd we need forum power to have a SotW?

Just make a poll in Quest or ZC Discussion.

I'd definately enter/help organise if we could get this going.

[Pineconn]

Well, it'd be nice if the SotW/M or whatever we'd do would be stickied.

But we're getting far too ahead of ourselves! I merely suggested that this screenshot competition would be part of the AGNX and nothing more. If we need activity down the road some time, we could very well add a SotW/M if necessary. Though I would very much like an official AGN SotW/M.

So what should the dates be? The entire month of February? Longer, shorter?

[Joe123]

True, walk before you run and all that.

Well I don't see why you'd close it after a month, I mean, they just leave it open at Pure and it seems to work ok.

It's not in a position where it could cause clutter there though I spose, which it could be here.

EDIT: I think I'm comparing to Pure too much...

[The_Amaster]

Hmm, if it's walk before you run, wouldn't SotW come first as the simpler concept? Maybe get some going now while we plan the expo. I mean, how hard could it be. One person just sorts through the submissions, posts em and voila. A front page message from Pineconn would help get some awareness.

[Joe123]

Oh that's true actaully.

If Pineconn were to post a message saying 'Screenshot Competition starts on X-day' or whatever, then submissions are all sent to someone via PM, and then on that day they post up them in a poll in Quest Announcement/Discussion, that should work OK, right?

I'm sure we could get at least 5.

[Pineconn]

Technically, we'd still need approval from DarkDragon to hold an organized event. He'd need to finalize who would be in charge of it and where it would be located. I think I'll PM him about it.

Back to AGNX! We really need to decide what the content will be. I still hold firmly to the original idea of

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_start.gif AGN Expo
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Quests
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Scripts
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Graphics and Music

All sub-forums except will showcase what everyone is working on right now, very similar to E3 and all that. I'm beginning to have second doubts on Dungeoneering, since the main rule of the Expo is that every entry must be something that you're working on now for Zelda Classic. A quest, a script, music, a tileset, etc.

I have no idea anymore.

[The_Amaster]

Eh, I agree that the Dungeoneering thing doesn't belong in an expo.

However I still like the idea of some kind of exhibition, maybe seperate from the expo. Although that's a whole new can of worms...

[Joe123]

Technically, we'd still need approval from DarkDragon to hold an organized event. He'd need to finalize who would be in charge of it and where it would be located. I think I'll PM him about it.
Would it have to be DarkDragon?
Shadowtiger is a mod in the ZC section isn't he?
We might be more likely to get a response from him.


I'm beginning to have second doubts on Dungeoneering, since the main rule of the Expo is that every entry must be something that you're working on now for Zelda Classic. A quest, a script, music, a tileset, etc.

The Dungeoneering thing sounds quite interesting (not for me, but interesting nonetheless =P), but why would it be part of the Expo?
Surely it would just be a seperate competition?

[The_Amaster]

I'd really like something like my earlier ideas on like, a ZC-Art fair, but it really depends on how you guys feel. Something with expo-ish elements and previews of upcoming works, but also seperate "galleries" of stuff people have submitted.

[Pineconn]

Well, I just PMed DarkDragon this about having a SotW:


A couple of us have been talking about having an organized Expo (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=101099) that features quests, scripts, etc. that are in-the-making, and we got the idea of holding a Screenshot of the Week contest similar to PureZC's SotW (http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showforum=45).

Luckily for you, all you'd have to do is set up the appropriate forum and assign probably one or two people to manage it. As much as I'd be willing to do it... I have no power (except for advertising it on ZC's homepage).

All that is required is a sub-forum to ZC Discussion (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=26). That's it. Any participants would PM a screenshot to whomever is running it, and at the end of a week, the organizer(s) would set up a poll so that they could be voted on. A very simple concept.

Now, if you go to PureZC's site (www.purezc.com), you'd see that in the top-right corner, the winning screenshot is shown. How difficult would it be to create a space, say, directly above the list of the newest 10 quests on ZC.com (www.zeldaclassic.com) that would show a scaled-down version of the image and when you mouse-over it, the full image appears (identical to how quests' screenshots work in the QDB)? As nice as this would be to have, this idea, however, would be a luxury and could therefore be deemed unnecessary. If it would be too time-consuming, I wouldn't be disappointed by any means.

Anyway, an AGN SotW could occur only with your approval. Like I said, the amount of input from you would be minimal (unless you actually want to be in charge of it ;)). The SotW is popular at PureZC, so it is guaranteed to be popular here.

I just wonder, if DD likes the idea, who would be in charge of it. :shrug:

[The_Amaster]

Oh goody. We're on our way. If it gets approved, I have a couple shots I know I could use.
And as always, I'll help out however is needed.

[Joe123]

Sure, I'm up for it.

[Russ]

I just wonder, if DD likes the idea, who would be in charge of it. :shrug:
How about you Pineconn. You thought of it. You already have the ability to post messages on the main page.

[Pineconn]

Y'know, this reminds me a lot about the thread (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90503) to get the QDB back up.

Oh, and look what I found! AGN Fantasy Football! (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=91805) We're definitely doing this next football season! :D

[Joe123]

I hope it's not too similar to that thread, nothing got done about the QDB for a year :(

[Pineconn]

And yet people wonder why PureZC is so active...

Anyway. The framework for this project looks good. I don't think we've conclusively decided if people must submit a demo for their quest. Obviously, scripts, tilesets, and music all need to posted online, but I still don't know about quests.

[The_Amaster]

We could put it to a vote among the masses. See what they'd prefer.
And yeah, hopefully if we get more people working on this, it'll go faster than the QDB.

[Russ]

I don't think we've conclusively decided if people must submit a demo for their quest

I'd say no. You should be able to submit something to the expo without having to submit a demo.

[Pineconn]

I'd have to vote no as well. If anyone disagrees with something or wants to propose an idea, feel free to speak up.

Time for rules. (I'm acting like Nancy Pelosi! No!)

First, all quests must be what you are working on now. Exceptions are quests that have not been added to the ZC QDB. Music, graphics, and scripts that were finished during the event (and that weren't added to PureZC's databases or to AGN's Script Showcase) should be allowed. I'm not adverse to allowing older scripts/graphics/music to be added, though. (If you can't tell, I really BSed my way through that paragraph. Feel free to propose your own version of this rule.)

[Gleeok]

Sotw. Sounds good, however I vote that if anyone posts something like "sorry, but that screen sucks" without it being constructive or helpful, then I can ban them. :p


What about a script of the week? That's something cool for those of us who don't really care about how many layers you can fit on a screen, or better yet, it's something that people can easily add to their quest instead of looking at a pic and trying to rip new tiles. That sounds promising, no?

[Russ]

What about a script of the week? That's something cool for those of us who don't really care about how many layers you can fit on a screen, or better yet, it's something that people can easily add to their quest instead of looking at a pic and trying to rip new tiles. That sounds promising, no?
There's one problem with that. Not that many people script. I believe there are a bout five scripters on AGN right now. But it does sound good.



however I vote that if anyone posts something like "sorry, but that screen sucks" without it being constructive or helpful, then I can ban them


I vote if anyone says that, we ban you. :googly: :goofy:

[Joe123]

Please don't make script of the week.

I'd end up having to enter every week, and never being able to do anything else, ever.

Although, yes, I vote bans for all who don't offer remedies to criticism.

[Russ]

But just temporary bans. One week maximum.

[Pineconn]

They really shouldn't be bans. Instead, we should simply encourage constructive criticism over, "Dude, that sucks." We could impose a penalty of not being able to submit a screenshot for a month or something like that.

[Joe123]

Oh, I was only joking. I got the impression Gleeok was also...

I mean, all it'd do is scare away newer members, and we realllly don't want to be doing that...

[Pineconn]

I knew that. Oh, come on, it's nearly impossible to detect sarcasm on the Internet without italization or smilies! ;)

DD hasn't returned my PM yet, so I'll let you know what he says.

[Gleeok]

Oh, I was only joking. I got the impression Gleeok was also...


oh, right...uhh, yeah, a joke...


And more people are learning to script. After some months you might see more in the Sotw than in the Sotw....err, same abbr. for those.

[The_Amaster]

Script of the week would be cool, except as previously mentioned not that many people script. I vote we postpone ScotW till post-2.5(Hopefully only a few months), and start with plain SotW.

[Russ]

Script of the week would be cool, except as previously mentioned not that many people script. I vote we postpone ScotW till post-2.5(Hopefully only a few months), and start with plain SotW.
Seconded.

[erm2003]

Why not make the scripting showcase a monthly event so you don't exhaust it?

[Joe123]

Is the Scriting Showcase an event now?

I thought it was a forum :confused:

It'd suck if we could only update it once a month.


Also, thirded.


EDIT: Ooo, 1200. I'm catching up Gleeok ^_^

[Gleeok]

That's odd, I would think people would be exited about new scripts being posted every week. :shrug:

It's been a little slow in the forum lately...

[erm2003]

The only reason why I suggested monthly is because earlier a comment was made that there aren't as many people who script. I would hate to see this as a weekly event and have it die early if we blaze through some of the great scripts and then have nothing to show for long periods of time.

Also don't forget, screen shots can be evaluated quickly by looking at them. To judge scripts, it has to be applied to a quest and played. This is going to take more time than just looking at screen shots. I am thinking a week may not be enough to get a fair number of comments when it comes to looking at scripts.

[The_Amaster]

Maybe every other week? As kind of an average? The idea is sound, we just need pacing.

[Pineconn]

Hm, DarkDragon posted here just an hour ago, yet he hasn't returned my message... I hope he hasn't blown us off... Nah, he wouldn't do that. Give him time, Pineconn.

Uh, I'm liking the idea of having a Script of the Every-Other-Week or Month after one of these other projects gets going. It's just, yeah, not that many people script. Plus, it could take a long time to create a nice script. But oh well.

[Joe123]

Why can't you ask someone else aswell/instead?
There are other people with authority around, surely?

Every other week might not be so bad.
Hrm.

Epona took about 4 days, by the way.
Although, I did little else during those days...

[Pineconn]

Erm2003 and Gleeok, I posted a thread in the ZC.com Development forum about this. We'll see exactly what happens more openly and more directly.

[Russ]

Would you look at that. There's an AGN Expo forum now. I guess someone listened to us.

[Pineconn]

The AGNX lives!

DarkDragon just PMed me. These are the bureaucratic details he provided me:


- You may promote or demote fellow hosted forum moderators at will. PM an administrator to have such changes done.
- Senior staff will patrol your forum for obvious AGN ToS violations (advertising, flaming, etc) but it is your responsibility to establish and direct the content of your forum, and to keep threads on-topic.
- The senior staff may deactivate your forum at your request, or if it is judged to have become too inactive.

First, we need to come up with a description before this begins.


This forum is for the AGN Expo, a biannual event to showcase your upcoming quests, scripts, and more.

Should the wording be changed at all? I'm open to suggestions. Once this is done, we'll move on at a hopefully rapid rate.

[Russ]

The AGNX lives!
First, we need to come up with a description before this begins.

How about:

Hosted here is the biannnual AGN Expo, where you can show off you current quests, scripts, and more.

[Pineconn]

That flows much better. I personally like the word "showcase" better, though. :p


Hosted here is the biannual AGN Expo, where you can showcase your current quests, scripts, and more. The winners will receive 1000 Pineconn Dollars (about $250 USD). The losers will receive 10000 Amaster Dollars (about $4 USD).

:rolleyes:

[Russ]

Hosted here is the biannual AGN Expo, where you can showcase your current quests, scripts, and more. The winners will receive 1000 Pineconn Dollars (about $250 USD. The losers will receive 10000 Amaster Dollars (about $4 USD).

Strange, somehow I don't remember the Pineconn dollar being worth so much more than the Amaster dollar. :D

Anyways, when is the expo open for submissions? And shouldn't you post a note about on the ZC main page?

[Gleeok]

So are there plans for any sub forums or other topics to fill in the void between the twice yearly zc expo bonanza? It could get kinda lonely in there, sorta like political debate. What's the verdict on the S&Sotw, or is the jury still out on that?

[Russ]

I hope SotW makes it. It would be nice for AGN to have one.

[Pineconn]

Hm, I'm not very good with legal terms :p, but a screenshot contest is planned to be part of the AGNX from what I understand.

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_start.gif AGN Expo
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Quests
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Scripts
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/misc/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif Graphics and Music
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/styles/classicblack/statusicon/thread.gif Rules/guidelines
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/images/styles/classicblack/statusicon/thread.gif Screenshot Contest thread


I think that is the basic plan we'll go with unless someone objects. I know that I have a quest and a MIDI to submit, so AGNX will have at least two submissions. :rolleyes:

Now, there is a possibility to have a separate SotW, but I want to get the AGNX set up before going into the specificities of the possibility of an SotW.

[Russ]

Now, there is a possibility to have a separate SotW, but I want to get the AGNX set up before going into the specificities of the possibility of an SotW.
Sounds good to me.

[Nimono]

Hey, if you ever need any help, let me know. :o I like helping out...

You probably should keep the SotW-ish idea of yours seperate from the expo. I dunno, it just doesn't seem right having them combined together. But maybe a biannual contest for past weekly winners right at the start of the expo would be nice, hmm?

Hmm... I can't think of anything else. If I ever come up with more ideas, I'll possibly let you know, okay? (I say "possibly" because I have a tendency to forget things easily... >_< )

[The_Amaster]

Alright. We're up!
So, what all needs to be done before we start taking submissions? Much?

[Joe123]

Ooo wow!

I go out for two nights, then we have an expo forum!

[Russ]

Since the forum will get pretty boring when the expo is not going on, maybe the SotW should just be a weekly thing held in a mini-forum within the expo forum.

[Joe123]

Yeah, we don't want to loose it due to inactivity do we =P

[Nimono]

Say, do you guys think you might need some help with the pics for this SotW? I could host/mirror them if you'd like. ANYTHING to help out. :D

[Pineconn]

I definitely will PM DD tonight about the finalization of this. I'm busy now until tonight's State of the Union Address, so that's when I'll get to work on the AGNX. (Though I wouldn't mind watching it....)

EDIT: Done! Now to work on the rules.

[Joe123]

Oh wow, it's actaully going now?

Hey Russ, wanna get something up for aKttH?

[Pineconn]

I'll answer that for you: Yes. :D

Oh and Russ (which I've decided I'm calling you from now on), feel free to post your EoT remake. If or when you do, just name the thread differently.

[Joe123]

I'd like to get something up, but I think it'd be best to wait for Russ, I haven't seen him posting in a couple days and I don't really want to post it up without his approval.

I've got Epona going though ^_^

[Russ]

I'd like to get something up, but I think it'd be best to wait for Russ, I haven't seen him posting in a couple days and I don't really want to post it up without his approval.

Sorry, I couldn't access my computer all weekend, because I was either out of town, or watching the Super Bowl. But by all means, create a topic for it. If there is really enough done to create a topic for.

[Joe123]

Oh well, I thought the idea was more 'This is what's being worked on now', rather than 'here's a lot that I have to show for my quest that I've been working on for X months and am finishing next week'?
That was my view of it anyway.