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_L_
12-12-2007, 02:05 AM
At last! Something approaching a functional demonstration!

For latecomers, here is your file: http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst_02.qst. (Requirements: build 743 or newer.)

This demo begins at the very start of the game, and ends when Link escapes with the level 1 sword. You explore a fairly short 'swordless' dungeon.

* The opening text is a tad cramped, owing to my crafty avoidance of gendered pronouns. I intend the narrator's identity to be ambiguous until the end of the game (whereupon it will go one of both ways.)
* All cutscenes are 100% scripted, and involve no screen warping. This is a standard I hope will be mostly maintained throughout the quest!
* Link starts with 10 rupees so that he can purchase one of the shop's item right away. Of course, the shop isn't built yet. Link's house is, but the sprite for Link's mother isn't.
* The forest is a very tricky place. Fairies love illusions, you know...
* Hey, you can talk to things with the A button! Like those brown birds. Or that pile of bones. And read the signs, too!
* Pay attention to the cave entrance screen. Is there anything else worth grabbing?
* You can't meet the Spirit of Winter until you get the Flippers and swim to the other entrance.
* If Link gets the medallion-shaped object, then the dungeon boss's life bar will be visible. Of course, there aren't any dungeon bosses this soon in the game.
* Spoilers: So that the player gets to use a never-before-seen item right away, I changed the level 1 candle into one of these things. (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bee%20smoker) I then replaced all of the "Blue Candle" flags and secret combos in the quest with "Red Candle" flags and secret combos, so that this new item's weapon can't be used to burn things down.
* With no bomb bags, Link's bomb capacity is exactly 1.
* Spoilers: "Moon Tower" is an tower in the Mystic Forest that is invisible on the outside. Legend has it that it extends all the way up to the stars. I intend it to be a place like Wind Waker's Labyrinth or the Paper Mario's Pit of 100 Trials - an enemy gauntlet. Also, a one-way portal from the Mirror/Chaos Realm is in B1F.

Q&A:

Q: Why is there ice in the water?
A: Because it's a Winter Garden!

Q: Well, why isn't there any snow?
A: It doesn't snow in caves, silly!

Q: Link doesn't seem very heroic.
A: In most tales, a hero is something that the protagonist becomes, not something that the protagonist is born into.

Some tileset changes of note:

* I made some sprites for the "Chaos Zol".
* I made the crystal orb tiles into 8-bit red and blue orbs.
* Added some combos that are used by various scripted elements.
* I don't like having to set a bunch of secret combos whenever I want to use "corner tall grass" combos. So, I've shifted around those combos and changed them into "Slash->Next (Item)" combos, in preparation for the time when the ability to make "Grass->Next" is implemented.
* Certain damage combos have been made solid. You can do that now.
* Some doors in some door combo sets have been fixed.

Tile shopping list:

Several parts of the quest use placeholder graphics. I intend some actual tile artists to create appetising replacements for the following:

* Link tile - Link holding onto the branches of that tree at the start.
* Spiderwebs for obstructing log tunnel entrances. (Minish Cap)
* Bomb flower item tile.
* Grass whistle item tile.
* Bee Smoker item tile.
* Bee Smoker's smoke tiles.
* Large floating ice tile.
* Magic mirror tiles.

Din
12-12-2007, 04:14 PM
Ooh, the scripts seem cool, when I get home I am SO going to play the quest. This is going to be fun. Nice work, _L_.

Dark Nation
12-12-2007, 05:28 PM
Okay, after you get the bee smoker, then what? I know you can use it to make the Sylphs visible and you use it to wake up the Dodongo. Where do you go next?

beefster09
12-12-2007, 06:04 PM
Is the tutorial aspect of neofirst still there? It was indeed the original intention of the project y'know. I also think we should show them some of the old tricks, just to prove that scripting is simply optional.

Pineconn
12-12-2007, 09:01 PM
I know I sound like a n00b, but what version is this for? I tried 693 and it wouldn't open. I suspect, however, that the quest file may have downloaded improperly.

Sillycat2
12-12-2007, 09:57 PM
Rename it to NeoFirst.qst and it will work on 692 and 693.
And by the way, I really like this quest. Keep it up, guys.

Pheonix
12-12-2007, 10:20 PM
I feel idiotic right now... where do I go? After getting to the screen with the save point, I get stuck.

ShadowTiger
12-12-2007, 11:44 PM
Look for places to walk along the water.

Also look for walls you can walk through in the northern eastern portion of the cave. Pretty awesome stuff, L. I'll get you the graphics you'd like; Particularly the items. Also, absolutely awesome bees. (We so rarely get to say things like that. :p )

_L_
12-13-2007, 12:27 AM
Okay, after you get the bee smoker, then what? I know you can use it to make the Sylphs visible and you use it to wake up the Dodongo. Where do you go next?

Listen to the ghost next to the medallion-like object. It's southwest of the bee room, so to speak.

Dark Nation
12-13-2007, 12:49 AM
I can't get by the sylph guarding the medallion without cheating. Is there some trick to it?

Gleeok
12-13-2007, 12:58 AM
Link seems to get caught in an infinite spinning loop...round and round he goes, when he stops...never!
I think those are the sylphs..the whirlwind guys, plus in the southern ice room it happens too. Is anyone else getting stuck here?

Very slick quest so far though. Excellent work!...I am intrigued by this, "Moon Tower", and this procedurally generated enemy gauntlet of which you speak. Would you care to elaborate on this more, and perhaps have the need for some "enemy boss designers" at some later date once construction of the tower commences? Scripted of coarse, we must maintain these high standards after all.

Dark Nation
12-13-2007, 01:20 AM
Never mind. I figured out the sylph.

Pheonix
12-13-2007, 10:01 AM
I wasn't talking about a save point in a cave. I was talking about the one in the forest surrounded by bushes, with the pit blocking access to the north screen, and the logger's house to the left.

Joe123
12-13-2007, 10:15 AM
What version would it be good to play this in?

Din
12-13-2007, 03:37 PM
493, that should get the scripts and stuff going.

ShadowTiger
12-13-2007, 06:01 PM
I wasn't talking about a save point in a cave. I was talking about the one in the forest surrounded by bushes, with the pit blocking access to the north screen, and the logger's house to the left.Ah, that area is just something I cooked up to go through along the way to Level 1. (Which _L_ has not been working in, on, near, or around.) As you enter the dark forest, (I.e. from your starting location,) go south, then west, then south through the tree log. (Note that I don't have the quest in front of me.) Then look for ways to bypass the illusions, (Walk EVERYWHERE on every screen. EVERYWHERE.) and proceed toward the North after you reach the log puzzle. (Which I never actually solved. Just look in the upper left portion of the screen for a blue bush; It's an illusion.) Then, save if you wish, and look for places where the land next to the river sort of meets. They're walkable. Try to go to the lower left area behind the small cluster of trees to walk behind them to cross to the west, where you can pick up a one-use whistle. (It's annoying that it's one-use only, but we'll deal.) Then you get to cross another little area of the river to enter the cave.

Pheonix
12-13-2007, 11:02 PM
After gettting the bee smoker, I don't know what to do. The whirlwind doesn't come over to the side I'm on when I go back into the cave, and I don't see a way out of the little forest area where the bee smoker is.

Dark Nation
12-13-2007, 11:58 PM
There's an invisible sylph (whirlwind) near the top of the water. You can use the bee smoker to make it show up (though you can use it even if it's invisible).

ShadowTiger
12-14-2007, 04:24 AM
That Sylph lets you jump over the 2x3 wall barrier too to reach that key, right? If so, those graphics could be changed. They're more associated with size-restricted boundaries than not, and can impede the creative-solutionary progress.

I've got a lot of tilework to do here. Shimmering walls, faint whisps of Sylph wind, most of the new items' etc. Usually, even though illusionary walls are a great device to use, there should be at least some small sign that should tip you off to their presence.

Incredible bees though, L. :clap: I still wonder if they were made with so mant tiny FFC's or not for its inherent smoothness.

_L_
12-14-2007, 08:42 AM
That Sylph lets you jump over the 2x3 wall barrier too to reach that key, right?Getting that key is not so easy! Even if that room's sylphs could throw Link that far, jumping onto unwalkable combos isn't something that I intend him to do very much in this quest.


I've got a lot of tilework to do here. Shimmering walls, faint whisps of Sylph wind, most of the new items' etc. Usually, even though illusionary walls are a great device to use, there should be at least some small sign that should tip you off to their presence.Well, I personally consider the illusions to be a modern continuation of Second Quest's walkthrough walls. But, more importantly, they serve to discourage the player from being complacent with their surroundings - a lesson which is best taught early in the game, while the players are still developing a sense of the game world's rules and vocabulary.

And, for what it's worth, the only genuinely out-of-the-way illusionary wall (in this cave at least) is gently hinted at by the ghost next to the medallion.

Imprisoned
12-14-2007, 10:58 AM
Hahaha, Bee Smoker... cool. Gotta give it a try.

Okay... I've tried it, and I have to say...

The overworld is nicely made and I just love the design of the Mystic Forest, but if there's
no real location for tile warps (yet) in a public version, they should

a) not exist
b) be blocked by unwalkable combos

So I had to restart and restart the game all the time again because of my curiosity (hey, what's over there?).
And how do I save? I'm not familiar with this new system with no continue menu.

Also I couldn't find the damn scrubs. I suck.

YAY I found a triforce piece! (or some other random triangle thing. What do you think it is) Anyway, I got stuck inside some brush and got to restart. Boo hoo.

Joe123
12-14-2007, 01:18 PM
I don't appear to be able to find the Bee Smoker?
I have a Grass Whistle, and I've found that room where you have to walk through the wall with the two syplhs, but the Bee Smoker is not apparent.
Also, in the room three north from the entrance, just to the top right of the dead tree is a bit of crap on layer 3 that looks rather unusual.

_L_
12-15-2007, 12:21 AM
I've found that room where you have to walk through the wall with the two syplhs, but the Bee Smoker is not apparent
Oh, right, that room. It isn't important at the moment. You need the flippers to get the Big Key anyway. Your goal at this point is to cross the water in the previous room.


Also I couldn't find the damn scrubs. I suck.

From the start: south, west, west, south, west, and so on.

Joe123
12-15-2007, 05:08 AM
Eh?
I did that but I can't seem to do anything in the next room, all I found was a dead guy telling me that the bee smoker almost worked at getting rid of the bees, and the fact that I don't seem to be able to get past the bees to get that potion type thing on the other side...

ShadowTiger
12-15-2007, 10:51 AM
I actually just took the hits and walked through the bees. :p

Joe123
12-15-2007, 11:34 AM
You can just walk through them?!

ShadowTiger
12-15-2007, 01:24 PM
Yeah, they're not unwalkable. (Not like REAL bees. Those things are badass, yo. lol!) Perhaps quests like Lost Isle have raised our standards a bit with actual unwalkable traps, like spike combos that are only halfway walkable; You can walk on them to get hurt, but can never get past them to what they guard. Truly nasty business for the brave, that. Bees are just bees. You can walk past them to get at them. It'd actually be rather wise to place a "heart plant" on the screen with them as a little hint that you can walk through the bee field.

I.e. something like a bomb flower, how it always grows back when you re-enter the screen. Just a little script to spawn a heart there every few seconds, unless there's already a heart there.

_L_
12-15-2007, 01:28 PM
If the bee problem has left you at the end of your tether, you can just take the stings. This isn't Yoshi's Story, World 4, you know.

Besides, the actual official no-damage solution to that problem is a bit tricky even by my standards: "_____ doth calm the savage beast."

Joe123
12-15-2007, 07:21 PM
OK, so I played the whistle for the bees and got the bee smoker. I woke up the dodongo, got past it and onto the ice raft, got a blue rupee, then got the raft stuck on the dock where I first left and now can't use it. I then made the sylph by the medallion thing visible, but it didn't help in me being able to get past it.

All in all, not very much further ¬_¬

ShadowTiger
12-15-2007, 11:21 PM
then got the raft stuck on the dock where I first left and now can't use it.Er, which side? There are three sides you can leave the raft on: Lower, upper right by the chest, and upper left. There's at least one illusionary wall by the chest. (To its right, I believe.)


I then made the sylph by the medallion thing visible, but it didn't help in me being able to get past it.I didn't get past it either. Would love some tips.

To get the key:-=SPOILER=-

pkmnfrk
12-16-2007, 12:18 AM
OK, so I played the whistle for the bees and got the bee smoker. I woke up the dodongo, got past it and onto the ice raft, got a blue rupee, then got the raft stuck on the dock where I first left and now can't use it. I then made the sylph by the medallion thing visible, but it didn't help in me being able to get past it.

All in all, not very much further ¬_¬

I too got the raft stuck, once, by getting off, and then missing when I was getting back on, falling in the water, and respawning on the other side of the water >_<

Getting past the medallion sylph is possible! Here's how:

First, make it visible. Yeah.

Next, wait until it's gone all the way to the left. When it starts to move right, follow it until the first alcove. Get in quick!

Then, shortly, it'll come back left. As soon as it passes you going left, go down and run as fast as you can to the second alcove.

If you made it in time, then the sylph'll just miss you. Then, it's a simple matter of waiting for it to pass left again to make the last leg of the journey.

I was stuck for getting the key, until I read ShadowTiger's spoiler. I must go try that now!

Edit: Works like a charm! I then got the bomb, got into the next area, learned of the secret shortcut (>_<), and then promptly got killed :(

Edit again: I guess there's nothing more after you get your swo... er, stick back.

Imprisoned
12-16-2007, 08:05 AM
Okay, thanks for the tip, the stump thing just disappeared? EDIT: Of course, the glamour script...

Also I think I found a bug. There's that forest brush thing which moves along
Link to prevent his passage, I walk to the left, it comes, then I walk to the place where it
was, I can walk straight through it.

Another bug: When I walk past the trees which glamour away and enter the hollow log, then go up on the same stairs where I'm standing on when I enter the screen, I end to the other side of the log. Works reverse too. You should use one screen with tile warps, rather than two screens with side warps.

Thus I got past the medallion sylph without the bee smoker. Bwa ha ha.
Yeee-es. Really.

Joe123
12-16-2007, 09:35 AM
Heh, I spent about 10 minutes trying to do just that pkmnfrk.
After I got the point where I had very little hair to tear out, I decided I'd had enough =P

Imprisoned
12-16-2007, 03:53 PM
When I get the swo... I meant the swo... NO, THE STICK, back, can I escape those pixel balls anyhow?

Also I'm having problems using the Forest Fairy script in my quest. I have the ffc there with the script attached, but when I enter the screen, I can see it for a millisecond and then it disappears. Help...?

_L_
12-17-2007, 12:50 AM
The, uh "Geography-Specific" scripts aren't designed to be used in other quests.

But since you asked:
* Use the "Run Script on Screen Init" flag.
* Set d2, d3, d4 and d5 to the coordinates (d2,d4 and d3,d5) of a rectangle that, if Link is inside before the screen starts scrolling, causes the FFC to be removed.


...

Also: it is necessary to the plot that you somehow stop those chaotic blobs from appearing.

Joe123
12-17-2007, 04:12 AM
I managed to stop them, but is it possible to kill those _L_?
They must have like 100 health or something O_o

_L_
12-17-2007, 08:29 AM
It is also necessary to the plot that you cannot easily kill them without the Golden Arrow or Golden Sword.

Imprisoned
12-17-2007, 01:29 PM
Thanks _L_. I got it working pretty nicely and got the rectangle in there so it wont disappear
but now it disappears when I step out of the rectangle. Does it only work when Link approaches from the right?

Sorry if I bother you but it's such a cool script. And my forest is pretty cluttered, I need the fairies for guides.

Joe123
12-17-2007, 01:38 PM
Ah yes! Chaos and all that, I remember reading your storyline a few months back.

It was definately very interesting.

Imprisoned
12-23-2007, 09:08 AM
Okay, I've been trying and trying and I seem to be a stupid moron so
I can't even stop some pixel balls on my freaking computer. How?

Joe123
12-23-2007, 09:43 AM
You mean the chaos blob things?

You have to smash the mirror.

Imprisoned
12-23-2007, 01:31 PM
Damn, of course. I just couldn't get there cause they always spawned and killed me.

Ok finished it. Very fun, this might become the best quest for ZC ever.

I found more bugs.

Bug #1 - When you're in the place with 2 armos statues and 4 poundable
stumps, when you walk up through the log, the A and B items switch places. Also
the southern end of the log isn't connected to the brush, but in the northern part
it is, making a graphical error.

Bug #2 - Link's right facing slash sprite is incorrect. He swings from up to right, but
he should be swinging from down to right.

Bug #3 - Link does not have the small shield, since he can't block Deku Nuts from
the scrubs. Although Link LOOKS like he has a shield...

Also I think I found arrows...am I supposed to be able to find them without the bow?

_L_
12-24-2007, 03:43 AM
Bugs 2 and 3 are due to the fact that we're still waiting on those new Link tiles, with jumping and charging the sword and slashing to the right and other features.

Imprisoned
12-24-2007, 06:12 AM
O.K. You can get custom made shieldless DoR Link tiles from PureZC, though.

ShadowTiger
12-24-2007, 01:06 PM
I.e. Here (http://www.purezc.com/index.php?page=tiles&id=965). They're nothing extremely complex though.

Pheonix
12-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Bug: After escaping the moon tower, if you go back in, go downstairs and then go back up, the mirror graphics get messed up.

Shazza Dani
01-20-2008, 07:35 PM
File not found. :mad:

Can someone re-upload this quest?

_L_
01-20-2008, 11:21 PM
What? Oh, it's at http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst_L.qst. But you'll have to change the start DMap to 255 and also remove the Bottle and Water items and two heart containers from Init Data. Ya should've come here sooner!

Shazza Dani
01-20-2008, 11:34 PM
Mmm. Well, thank ya.

bluedeath
02-07-2008, 06:01 PM
Hey the demo download link doesnt work, can somone help?

bigjoe
02-08-2008, 01:18 PM
Read the post two posts before your post.

ennonfenom
03-02-2008, 12:43 AM
What? Oh, it's at http://l.j-factor.com/zeldaclassic/NeoFirst_L.qst. But you'll have to change the start DMap to 255 and also remove the Bottle and Water items and two heart containers from Init Data. Ya should've come here sooner!

Ok I did that but, all I can do when it loads up is, press left and the screen flashes white nothing else :scared: Am I missing something here?

_L_
03-03-2008, 01:21 PM
Hey, I've had a change of heart. If you still haven't tried out the first 8 minutes, then consult the first post for an updated download link.

Pteryx
03-03-2008, 06:44 PM
I seem to have encountered a bug in the "first 8 minutes". When I reenter the dungeon after getting the Bee Smoker, Link enters the dungeon one combo too low and is stuck on an unwalkable tile. Help?... -- Pteryx

Aegix Drakan
03-03-2008, 11:29 PM
...Oh...my...goodness...


cutscenes....moving...octo... [email protected][email protected]

I GOTTA FREAKING LEARN HOW TO DO THIS!!!!!!! must...learn...now to make...awesome ...cutscenes!!! ;_; ...Link to tutorial? Please?



...aaaand I'm totally stuck. I can't do ANYTHING in the dungeon.

(spoilers for safety)
-=SPOILER=-


and you might want to check out the forest tunnel with the 4 mini gels in there. You can go in, an dthen go out by the same entrance, and you still end up on the other side.

ennonfenom
03-04-2008, 03:06 AM
OK this is for beta testing right? cause I have found some errors or what appears to be errors.
In this screen there are mis matched tile colors, marked with red squares
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda001-1.png
And when exiting this hut it puts link here
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda002-2.png
which he can't go any were but to the next screen to the left and there nothing he can do there so.
And I don't think these warps are right, cause they look weird
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda004-1.png
And they send me here
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda003-2.png
and if you walk through this tree
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda008-1.png
it sends link here
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda009-1.png
oh and is the heart meter suppose to have a arrow mini tile like this
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u60/ennonfenom/zelda007-2.png

_L_
03-04-2008, 04:13 AM
Guys, the town isn't finished yet. Those nonsensical rooms are for ZC bugtesting purposes.

I'll see the mismatched tiles, though.

As for solving the garden's puzzles:
* Look for a camouflaged item in the screen outside the entrance. (Note: technically optional.)
* From the entrance room, go north, east, north, east, east.
* Figure it out from here.

ennonfenom
03-04-2008, 04:25 AM
OK that's what I thought. I wasn't trying to be rude and say you errored or any thing, just wanted to help is all. :)

_L_
03-04-2008, 05:17 AM
Sorry.

Also, I just noticed that, in addition to the forest passageway, one of the dungeon screen entrances has somehow become bugged. Please forgive me and redownload.

Aegix Drakan
03-05-2008, 05:11 PM
Hey, this was pretty good!


Bugs:

After loading a save, I end up in this random brownish colored dungeon room with 3-4 peahats, brick walls, and what looks like flowers on the floor.

Freeform raft: I went to the other side with the chest, then accidentally walked off the floor and drowned. I respawned on the south entrance, and no matter what I did, the raft never returned there. Ergo, it was now impossible to proceed, since the raft was forever stuck beyond my reach.


And...that patrolling Green zol... >_> uh...how the hell are you supposed to pass it on the way back without hacking in some way?!? It doesn't move far enough to go into that one hiding spot.

Pteryx
03-05-2008, 05:20 PM
Thanks for fixing that bugged dungeon entrance. :)


And...that patrolling Green zol... >_> uh...how the hell are you supposed to pass it on the way back without hacking in some way?!? It doesn't move far enough to go into that one hiding spot.

As near as I can tell, the only way to do it is to come with a full life bar and let yourself take damage as you walk through it... -- Pteryx

_L_
03-06-2008, 12:18 AM
Gentlemen, the Zol is meant to teach you that when you stun an enemy, you can walk past it and take no damage.

That mechanic was in Zelda 1!

(Fact: at no point in the dungeon are you required to take damage.)

(...Maybe I need a fairy or something that says "When you stun an enemy, you can walk past it and take no damage!" when you talk to it.)

Aegix Drakan
03-06-2008, 01:33 PM
>_> Well, considering that the only "Stunning" item I've found is at the shop, and seeing that the town is still being made...

I didn't think of going to town to buy it. I considered the town "off limits"

Pteryx
03-06-2008, 05:43 PM
Gentlemen, the Zol is meant to teach you that when you stun an enemy, you can walk past it and take no damage.

That mechanic was in Zelda 1!

(Fact: at no point in the dungeon are you required to take damage.)

(...Maybe I need a fairy or something that says "When you stun an enemy, you can walk past it and take no damage!" when you talk to it.)

I could've sworn I still took damage even when I stunned the thing... maybe because the game largely acted as though I had and I merely assumed the life bar also went down? :shrug: I'll have to try that again and watch more carefully. -- Pteryx

_L_
03-07-2008, 01:07 AM
>_> Well, considering that the only "Stunning" item I've found is at the shop,
You haven't found the item guarded by the bees? Or you didn't try to use it against the Zol?


I could've sworn I still took damage even when I stunned the thing... maybe because the game largely acted as though I had and I merely assumed the life bar also went down? :shrug: I'll have to try that again and watch more carefully. -- Pteryx

You must have ran into Link's own smoke cloud. Link will take damage when he runs into candle flame-type weapons, but in this case the damage is 0.

Aegix Drakan
03-07-2008, 03:22 PM
...THAT stuns it?!? >_> I'm sure I used it, and it didn't work...

*Goes to try it again*

HazzTheSpazz
04-19-2008, 11:28 AM
cool quest, I'd like to see the whole thing when it's done
I found a glitch in it though, when you go in the door with the red circle, you go into a house, and when you go back out you end up where I put the blue circle

http://www.uploadthis.co.uk/uploads/HazzTheSpazz/zelda004.GIF

and if i go into this house and come out, I'm stuck in the grass

http://www.uploadthis.co.uk/uploads/HazzTheSpazz/zelda005.GIF