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View Full Version : The best game editors:



ShadowTiger
10-19-2007, 10:56 AM
More of a topic for discussion than an actual list, really.

I recently reinstalled my copy of the original Dungeon Keeper, seeing as how it runs virtually perfectly on my old '98 PII 300 MHZ 254 MB Ram machine. I'd had makeshift editors for it before, so I decided to keep looking. I eventually came across the actual editor that the developers used, and man, it is SWEET. It feels like you're playing the game, yet it actually looks and feels even smoother. The editor mechanics are the same as in gameplay, with most of the additional features. It has the same visual interface, with no icons to represent creatures; It actually shows the real creatures as they'd appear in-game. It looks sort of like Neverwinter Night's editor, only they lacked the game's visual GUI.

Honestly, I think I'm in love. :love: Such a wonderful editor. It's a shame that most games don't really pay this much attention to the userfan base creation kits. I suppose time and ease is indeed a factor, of course. If they had invested as much time into the editor as they would into the game, then the game itself would be delayed far longer.


EDIT: (*Realizes more text is necessary.* Kinda just passing the time in an otherwise boring class.)

You'll find editors that are just that easy to use. If you've ever played, say, ... Jetpack, (Or its variation, X-Mas Jetpack.) it'll be obvious just how easy it is to use those kinds of editors. Naturally though, what you can actually accomplish with these editors is only limited to the complexity of the game itself.

I remember playing with the TimeSplitters II editor on the 'cube. It was somewhat more limited than I'd thought it would or could be, but understandably so, given that it wasn't really designed to reproduce the entire campaign. :p Then you've got editors on the PC itself, and you look at all the features you're given all at once and suddenly you're falling down an infinite abyss of despair and hopelessness until you can gradually begin to climb that well and understand at least a few of the features, but not even before you understand what the features you see actually contribute towards.

After all, what you see in these exceptionally complex editors aren't always what you see in the game. In-game experiences are So COMPLETELY different than what you see in the editor that it's as if you shouldn't be entering with any expectations at all!

Try the level editor for Thief, Unreal Tournament, or Morrowind. Somewhat different things. Now try the Build3D Editor for Duke Nukem or Witchhaven. Quite a bit different. It's not surprising that they use different means to achieve the same thing: A functional, walkable area. Something even so simple as that requires more than a basic understand of how things work. You can actually understand how the areas work in a 3-dimensional sense, but there's nothing less obvious than seeing an entire screen of buttons and icons before you without seeing a "Create room" icon. :p Takes quite a bit of tutorial reading.

mrz84
10-19-2007, 12:08 PM
I've only got experience in the eidtors of Age of Empires and Starcraft. That's pretty much it. I came up with some devious scenarios, but due to my pc being inoperable for over a year now, I highly doubt they will ever see the light of day...

Warlock
10-19-2007, 12:13 PM
It was easier when games were simpler. WarCraft 2's and Starcraft's editors were both great, but WarCraft 3 I felt was rediculously hard to learn and use. I blame most of that on the ackwardness of placing 3d terrain (trying to add ramps in your map was nearly impossible.. it just didn't work half the time.. there was some magic layout you had to build your cliffs in to do it that I never quite figured out).

Edit: Build3d was damn crazy. Never figured that out entirely either, though I could do *ok* maps with it.. nothing too fancy.. though I do recall once making Maze Island from Zelda 2 in Duke3d. It was somewhat crude but it was cool. I think that'd be a fun thing to try and do again with some sort of FPS.. the fact that you don't have an overhead makes it a *real* maze :)

KJAZZ
10-19-2007, 12:43 PM
Jazz Creation Station is about the only editor for a game that I can remember using at the moment. Those were some good times. Of course, I'm not counting things like Lunar Magic or ZC... :blah:

Grasshopper
10-19-2007, 04:32 PM
Edit: Build3d was damn crazy. Never figured that out entirely either,

Ugh. I tried making maps in Blood and I remember all those numbers for sounds, actions, events, and such...and usually only had vague descriptors if they had any at all. Most were just a number. Ok, I want this sound event to be ... let see, "97".

I still happen to like UnrealEd the best.

Doom Builder is a pretty cool editor for the original Doom, that even has a very intuitive 3D view, similar to the Build3D's 3d view.

AlexMax
10-19-2007, 06:16 PM
Doom Builder is a pretty cool editor for the original Doom, that even has a very intuitive 3D view, similar to the Build3D's 3d view.

http://xs220.xs.to/xs220/07426/seconding.jpg.xs.jpg (http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs220&d=07426&f=seconding.jpg)

Seconding that. Doom Builder is a beautiful editor, and is part of the reason why my Doom WAD directory is gigantic. The best news is that Codeimp is now hard at work on Doom Builder 2.0 from scratch.

Anarchy_Balsac
10-19-2007, 06:57 PM
Does this "doom builder" work in XP?

The_Amaster
10-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Yeah, so I heard of this great program called Zelda Classic. It's basically the original Zelda game, only you can totally customize it. It rules!!

BTW, ST, where can I get a copy of that editor? I love dungeon keeper.

AlexMax
10-19-2007, 07:27 PM
Does this "doom builder" work in XP?

Sure does. It's a modern windows program.

www.doombuilder.com

rock_nog
10-19-2007, 10:31 PM
Damn, I was gonna mention Doom Builder. Seriously, the 3D view is so incredible, I can't imagine going back to editing the old way. Especially 'cause I'm absolutely anal about texture placement, and Doom Builder lets me set the textures just exactly the way I want, no guesswork, no having to stop to test the level to make sure I've got it right... Very nice.

AtmaWeapon
10-19-2007, 11:11 PM
I believe I used Doom Builder for the week or two that level editing held my attention, and it really was amazing how easy it was to use the program. It only took me a day or so of reading a few excellent tutorials to understand how the Doom engine displayed things, and with that knowledge using Doom Builder was exceptionally easy.

I have tried ZQuest many times, and no offense to the powers that be but it just feels too much like a "personal" project. I always had to consult some guide to figure out that it was this checkbox deep in this menu to get whatever task done, and when I was spending 25 minutes of a 30 minute editing session just trying to figure out how to get BS graphics working I decided I'd rather just play Zelda than make it.

Knytt Stories actually has a fantastic editor, but it suffers from very poor documentation. Once you know the keyboard bindings you practically don't need the mouse.

Pretty much any other editor is either too complicated or too limited for me. I'm an instant gratification kind of guy, and even though I enjoy making levels a part of me doesn't like how long it takes before I start getting any feedback. After the first few days pass I'm just kind of not in to it anymore :/

vegeta1215
10-20-2007, 10:26 AM
I took me a week of staying up until 2am each night to learn ZQuest back in 2000, but that was before any extensive tutorials existed (Mottzilla had created a small tutorial, which helped some, but it was all text - I'm a visual person, so pictures help me a lot) Once you get the hang of how things work and the vocabulary, it's not so bad, but ZQuest has gotten more complicated over the years, esp with layers.

Nicholas Steel
10-20-2007, 11:02 AM
Yeah, so I heard of this great program called Zelda Classic. It's basically the original Zelda game, only you can totally customize it. It rules!!

BTW, ST, where can I get a copy of that editor? I love dungeon keeper.
ftp://ftp.ea.com/pub/bullfrog/misc/dk/dkedit.exe

it is pretty awesome ;) i got the expansion pack for DK too and the levels are pretty awesome, to me dungeon keeper is one of the few awesome 3d games that actually have decent gameplay.

Skulkraken
10-23-2007, 12:54 AM
Whoa, EA still keeps files around for games that old?

... I don't really have much experience in game editors. I tried making quests in Zelda Classic, but never made much progress at all on either my Tenchi Muyo quest or my sidescroller quest.

I do still tinker around in my old copy of Graal, however. It's just a shame that the devs for it cut off offline play in the newer versions...