Wii only a passing fad?

[AlexMax]

Wii Bubble About to Burst?

Say it ain't so Mario. According to some developers in Japan, which spoke to the Nikkei Business Daily, there is growing concern about the Wii's future. One developer likened the console to a weight-loss program, which people only bought out of curiosity. More within...

Nintendo's success has jolted the industry, seemingly broadening the audience and introducing new ways to play games on the Wii and DS. The company recently became the second most valuable in all Japan, and Game Developer announced that Nintendo dethroned Electronic Arts as the top publisher this year.

And beyond that, according to the Kyoto Shimbun (via IGN), there seems to be a good deal of interest in the upcoming WiiWare service. "We've already received proposals for over 100 titles from software development companies. We've made a platform for developing software at low cost, and would like to offer a new business chance based around a battle of ideas," said Nintendo President Satoru Iwata.

But is Nintendo's crown made of fool's gold? Another report out of Japan from the Nikkei Business Daily (also via IGN) suggests that a number of developers are starting to get nervous about the Wii's future prospects, to the point where some are concerned about making games for the platform because they're afraid they won't sell very well.

"Several developers claim that Nintendo has been the only beneficiary of Wii's success as it was able to predict demand for the console, while other publishers were forced to catch up quickly producing titles - some of which ended up as flops," IGN said.

The president of an anonymous developer commented, "The Wii is like the 'Billy's Boot Camp' weight-loss program on DVD. People bought it out of curiosity, and it's likely a lot of them haven't used it."

Much of the concern stems from the Wii's slow September sales. Only 168,000 or so units were purchased in Japan for the month, which the Nikkei noted is the worst month since December 2006, when the console launched. The Nikkei said that game companies are "on guard for signs of a major change."

Source: http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17744

I can't help but agree with this article. I haven't bothered to get anywhere past the first dungeon in Twilight Princess due to the intense feeling of deja vu I felt when playing, and I haven't bought a Wii game since Wario Ware Smooth Moves. Lately, it's basically been the "watch youtube videos in the communal room" box instead of actually playing anything, and I've been investing far more into PC gaming recently. And I can't think of a single third party title worth playing (except perhaps Resident Evil 4, but that was a port of the Gamecube version so I don't think it counts).

We're getting Mario Galaxy in less than a month, then Super Smash and Mario Kart in 2008. And then what? Is the Wii turning into Gamecube 2.0 again, just with more sales under its belt but the exact same drought of good games? Seems like this generation of consoles is incredably disappointing so far, with the PS3 a flop and the Xbox 360 beating the PS2 in terms of lack of reliability.

[MottZilla]

This is something I've been wondering for a long time too. And so many people here thought it was crazy. But really, where does the Wii go? It doesn't really have direction that's any good, and seems very disorganized. Sure you have the Nintendo characters so you can count of seeing Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Mario Kart, probably StarFox, probably Kirby, etc. But um, most consoles actually have games produced by different companies.

People now are speculating that Nintendo will again end up in 3rd place, though it could still be a fairly profitable third place. Nintendo has some great IPs, but they really lost it on console design after the SNES. Though I'll give them the GBA, it was good.

[vegeta1215]

It will be a passing fad if game developers don't make some decent games. But they seem to be content with rushing games out the door or making sloppy ports. :shrug:

btw, here's me list of games I want to try or buy:
Mario Galaxy (duh)
SSBB (duh again)
Tomb Raider Anniversary
DBZ Tenchaichi 3
RE Umbrella Chronicles
Dewey's Adventure
Zack & Wiki
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
Fire Emblem
No More Heroes
Dragon Quest Swords
FF Chronicles
Trauma Center New Blood
Wii Fit
de Blob

There's probably newer games that have been announced since I made that list. Me, I have enough to play right now - I'm still trying to catch up on my portable ones - and there are enough Wii games scheduled to keep me happy.

[Mak-X]

The system isn't even a year old and is already doing better than the Gamecube. It's too early to tell. It's a lot like the Nintendo DS, where its underpowered compared to the competition, and there weren't many good games at the beginning. It was Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow in the following fall that made owning a DS worth it to me, since I hadn't touched it much since launch.

Developers just need to make better games, and the industry in Japan is already shifting, such as the announcement of Monster Hunter 3 coming to Wii instead of PS3. They're playing catchup now.

I don't think most gamers would get by just owning a Wii this generation. I haven't been using my Wii traditionally at all except for a few virtual console games, but some of that is due to my current gaming habits. I've passed on Metroid Prime 3 so far because I didn't get through Metroid Prime 2 yet. Super Mario Galaxy will probably be the next Wii game I play, and I'm really looking forward to that one.

[Russ]

I doubt the wii is just going to end up as gamecube 2.0. It's sold better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Just watch and you'll see. (If the wii sales go down a lot, please nobody quote that.)

[vegeta1215]

I've passed on Metroid Prime 3 so far because I didn't get through Metroid Prime 2 yet. Super Mario Galaxy will probably be the next Wii game I play, and I'm really looking forward to that one.

You should definitely finish MP2 so you can play MP3, it's really good.

I agree with your point about the DS, but I look at the DS release schedule and all I see is kids games (just how it's been for GBA over the past few years), and not many games that interest me.

[Orion]

I think there's some merit to the argument that it will be a fad. Nintendo is relying on only it's own releases, which are starting to dwindle in quality as well. Yes, they are appealing to the mass market, but the mass market has a short attention span. Metroid, Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, none of them held my interest. I fear that Mario is going down the same path, and Mario Kart looks a long way off (the new screen shots look terrible).

Oh, by the way, PSP managed to outsell the DS last month in Japan. Say what?

[Yoshiman]

I'm kind of feeling the same way about the Wii myself. There really haven't been enough games to warrant me buying one just yet. I mean, I'm interested in Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Metroid Prime 3, and (maybe) Super Mario Galaxy. But considering how much of a letdown Twilight Princess was, I'm a little wary about Nintendo's first-party titles now. :/

One thing that bugs me about developers and the Wii is that they seem to have some sort of gimmick syndrome. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I don't like the idea of controlling my character with a pointer. This is the main reason why I didn't pick up Phantom Hourglass. I want to control Link myself, not give him directions on where to go.

But the biggest thing of all, is how the majority of the games seem to be short and lacking substance. Sure, I can go and get Wii Sports. But that will probably only entertain me for 5 hours at most. Any other game that got good ratings I've played on their original systems.


If I look at my Gamecube collection, there's a good amount of gems in there. So it's not like Nintendo was always like this.

[DarkDragoonX]

Yeah, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the Wii was another "only the first-party titles are worth it" system... on the other hand, it's cheap, so I don't mind paying for it to use alongside the Xbox 360. Of course, I also bought an Xbox for the sole purpose of playing two games (Ninja Gaiden and Steel Battalion), so maybe I'm not the best benchmark for this sort of thing.

[vegeta1215]

This is the main reason why I didn't pick up Phantom Hourglass. I want to control Link myself, not give him directions on where to go.

I was skeptical about controlling Link (and everything in the game) with a stylus, but I don't know how I'll go back to playing Zelda with a d-pad. It really feels like you are controlling Link. A lot of the stuff you may read about in the game sounds gimicky, but it's actually a lot of fun - the item usage, the sailing, the salvaging and fishing mini games, etc, it's all great. You really should at least borrow it from someone to check it out.

Also for those worried about length, don't be. It's a good length for a handheld.



I think there's some merit to the argument that it will be a fad. Nintendo is relying on only it's own releases, which are starting to dwindle in quality as well. Yes, they are appealing to the mass market, but the mass market has a short attention span. Metroid, Twilight Princess, Phantom Hourglass, none of them held my interest. I fear that Mario is going down the same path, and Mario Kart looks a long way off (the new screen shots look terrible).

You talk like Nintendo has some kind of control over other companies and the games they put out. Nintendo is working with developers considerably more now than it had in the past, but it can't make the games for them! Developers are paying attention to the Wii because it's the big thing now, but a lot of them are half-assing it or dumbing the games down, thinking anything they put out will sell. Thank goodness for Nintendo's games is what I say...

...but, Nintendo can only give us the same thing over and over again for so long - the new control methods are a way to prolong it, but it's only a matter of time. Phantom Hourglass is a good example: I think it's a fantastic game, and even though it follows the Zelda formula, you don't really think about it, you just go along and enjoy the game. But, I don't know how I would feel if a follow up game was almost the same.

Twilight Princess is another story though. It had a lot of good things going for it, but it just ended up being too bland, sticking so closely to the Zelda formula, and lacking the character that Majora's Mask and Wind Waker had. To be fair I haven't played the Wii version, but I doubt that would make much difference.

Still, Zelda, Mario, Metroid, etc have held up a lot better than any other franchises. I think it'd be hard to name any other franchise that has put out consistently good games.

[AlexMax]

I doubt the wii is just going to end up as gamecube 2.0. It's sold better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360. Just watch and you'll see. (If the wii sales go down a lot, please nobody quote that.)

Read the first post. Wii sales have been way down in Japan, compared to what they have been.

[AtmaWeapon]

Have you ever heard of market saturation? I hate to come off as a fanboy but one month of slow sales at the end of nearly a year of very strong sales is not exactly cause for alarm. Two or three months of continued decline yes, but you need more than one data point to start using words like "dwindling".

Honestly it amazes me how every few months the same people get really excited and post about how Wii is gimmicky and they aren't going to get one and it's going to be in 3rd place. Every time I point out that Nintendo themselves claim their market strategy this round is "make profit", not "defeat competition". Despite the fact that, according to these people, there are no games to play on the Wii or anything good that is released is just gimmicky and not fun after a while, the system is selling like crazy. When Sony was getting called out for making wild claims about lack of stock in the face of photographic evidence of units collecting dust on shelves, stores had several-month-long waiting lists for Wii consoles. XBox 360 can be excused for having ample units on the shelf because it was about a year old at the time; by then it is reasonable to say that everyone who wanted one had one, which is likely what's starting to happen with the Wii now.

What is really going on here is a shift in gaming. There are really two big movements in the industry right now, and Nintendo is only following one of them. The two movements are something I touched upon in really long post a long time ago but it still applies: jock gamers and classic gamers. There's a pretty solid polarization of opinions on the Wii based on how one is aligned. I often see cited the fact that the Wii has no Halo 3, no Gran Turismo 4500, or whatever stupid license someone is looking to play. That's great, but "it doesn't have this one game I want" doesn't really lead to "that console is going to fail".

Nintendo is going to have a hard time getting good 3rd party titles because of their hardware. I don't believe this is uncommon though; there are a lot of factors coming together and I'm just not seeing as many ports as usual unless it's a fairly simple game based on some engine that's already been ported. I think development on each console is different enough that it's not really possible to code in a generic manner and target all three. I think something that complicates this issue is the general complexity that is expected of a "good" jock game these days. I mean, I'm impressed with the complex pipe networks on the walls of Doom 3, and the level of detail that goes into some of these games blows my mind, but keep in mind that to put a complex 3D system on a wall takes significantly longer than it takes to make a bitmap texture that is applied to a flat wall. Now, imagine if after doing 2 or 3 times the work you used to do, you find out that now the number of polys has to be reduced to work on this or that other system. Do you redo the work, or do you just decide to be console exclusive? It seems many developers are going console exclusive.

Want game quality to increase? Give up some graphical detail so the years of development time can be spent on the game instead of making sure the light bulb explodes accurately when you shoot it.

Honestly I am not concerned about the 3rd party titles that are not coming to the Wii. I'm playing a few games right now, and I've got a queue of games I'd like to replay that can last me until about 2009. The only expectation I have out of the Wii is that if I feed it $50 I should get a week or two of really good entertainment out of it, and so far it has not failed to deliver on this expectation. I think a lot of you have lost sight of the fact that a console doesn't have to be a constant source of entertainment to be successful.

My Wii hasn't been turned on since I finished MP3. There's a few games I'd like to buy, but I have a wedding coming up soon and I'd like to hold on to my 50 bucks right now. I'm preparing for guitar hero 3 and Mario Galaxy and honestly I don't care how many units Nintendo is selling because all I care about is if I'm having fun when I play the Wii. I think it's silly to watch the ratio of "time spent playing Wii" to "time spent doing other things" and consider that a metric for success.

[rock_nog]

I do appreciate the fact that when Nintendo releases a game for the Wii, it's good. I just... The thing is, none of the faults of the Wii can be pinned to the hardware. Sure, it's not as powerful, but it's definitely demonstrated that it can deliver good games. The controls, too, have been shown to be very effective when used correctly, so it's not as if this motion-control business was a mistake.

There just doesn't seem to be any direction. Third-party companies seem as if either they don't know or don't care how to most effectively use the Wii. *shrug* And I have no idea how that's going to change. Because the thing is, so long as Nintendo keeps "showing the way" by making spectacular games, the only thing third party companies will take home is that they can't compete with Nintendo.

[ShadowTiger]

I've actually had to write and rewrite this post several times. I know that there is an interesting and unique reply I can add to this, but whatever I say seems to be both immensely profound, yet at the same time, incredibly obviously stupid. o.o'

What exactly should I be posting with here? Should I care? Are there benefits to caring or not caring? What if I just said that as long as Galaxy and Brawl come out, my reasons for getting the Wii are justified? (Considering that Brawl *IS* the only reason I got a Wii in the first place.)

I suppose that'd make me a hardcore SSB/M/B player, rather than a ... well ... Console player/gamer. I have very, very heavy roots with the PC, but no Smash (Save for Online original Smash.) is on it. As long as the PC fares well, my needs are virtually satisfied. When my computer becomes outdated and obsolete, I will either have to get a (Hopefully not too costly) new one or upgrade, or will have to consider investing in a console aside from the Wii which I already possess to sate my gaming urges.

[AtmaWeapon]

Also Nintendo's market value is 3rd largest in Japan. Only Mitsubishi and Toyota are bigger. (source (http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/15/nintendo-market-value-tops-10-trillion-yen/))

I see a lot of comments that their gaming is all fads and is starting to lose quality, but the fun I've had and the market seem to disagree :)

Also I think ShadowTiger's views are the most rational here. Who cares if the box is a fad if you are having fun with it? In a way, the SNES was just a fad; as soon as Sony's joybox arrived it was abandoned, and it took 2d games (which were becoming an art form) with it. It took years before the quality of 3d games started to approach that of the most acclaimed 2d games. Bitter? Yeah you could say so.

Same thing with the PS2. By now it's probably provided me about 1/2 as many hours as I have spent on the SNES, but who cares about PS2 these days? 3 years from now, none of you are going to be playing Xbox 360 or PS3. Just sayin.

[AlexMax]

Same thing with the PS2. By now it's probably provided me about 1/2 as many hours as I have spent on the SNES, but who cares about PS2 these days? 3 years from now, none of you are going to be playing Xbox 360 or PS3. Just sayin.

Slightly off topic, but I don't buy this. Japan sales for last month:


PSP 102,809 1,861,320
Nintendo DS Lite 72,895 5,487,649
Wii 24,143 2,694,454
PlayStation 3 13,105 712,108
PlayStation 2 12,980 596,915
Xbox 360 5,215 150,789
GameBoy Micro 229 26,485
GameCube 73 9,785
GameBoy Advance SP 49 20,723
GameBoy Advance 41 968
Nintendo DS 30 2,816

For a console that's over 7 years old, selling only 1,000 units behind the current generation counterpart and half of the generation leader is pretty damn good. Also, how long has the fucking DS Lite and PSP been out, and they're still selling like hotcakes.

And I don't see how worrying about the console I bought having good games isn't a valid concern. I wasn't really expecting Halo 3, but I was expecting a little more decent third party action than it has now, considering how capable Nintendo has proven the Wii to be.

[AtmaWeapon]

Well I argued pretty strongly in favor of good games being a part of the experience, if you'll remember I seemed to take offense to the "lagging sales" spelling doom for the Wii. Despite the apparent lack of games for the console, it seems like it's still selling very strongly.

By now, I'd say word of mouth is a motivator for buying the thing. If it wasn't fun, people would be warning their friends to not buy into the hype. Instead, people chill at each other's house and have a blast even when playing the mini-games that came with the system, and the effect is viral. Invite 3 friends over, play Wii bowling or carnival games or something, oops 3 Wiis just got sold. They invite 3 friends over...

The same thing would happen for Halo but its target audience is too busy getting drunk to remember why they had such a good time at the party... there was Halo but I bet it was the alcohol we better get more of that! (Actually I think the XBox 360 is old enough that game sales rather than system sales are a better metric for its popularity. There's a troll about how the first run was defective and everyone had to buy a new one there but I'm not going to make it. Oops!)

I really hate how defensive these posts make me sound. Honestly every game on the Wii has followed the same cycle of play>win>shelf when I played it. The unit sits idle until the next game I buy is delivered. However, since I am extremely careful about what games I pick, when I do part with my precious gold I often find that the entertainment value I derive from the game is well worth the investment. It's hard for me to buy into a sky is falling mentality for three reasons: I don't follow gaming news unless something makes this site or some of the news sites I read or a friend deliberately notifies me of an upcoming release. Guitar Hero 3 is going to be on the Wii and I am really stoked because Guitar Hero 2 is responsible for almost as many PS2 hours as Katamari Damacy. Super Mario Galaxy Super Smash Bros. BrawlHonestly, it seems like every time I start to believe that perhaps my Wii purchase was foolish, I decide to try a game. It turns out that more often than not if I'd just keep feeding new games to the system, I'd have more fun with it.

*edit* Guys should I buy Super Paper Mario or save the $50 for my upcoming honeymoon?

[Dechipher]

It's hard for me to buy into a sky is falling mentality for three reasons: I don't follow gaming news unless something makes this site or some of the news sites I read or a friend deliberately notifies me of an upcoming release. Guitar Hero 3 is going to be on the Wii and I am really stoked because Guitar Hero 2 is responsible for almost as many PS2 hours as Katamari Damacy. Super Mario Galaxy Super Smash Bros. Brawl


You should really learn to count, it'll add more merit to your posts...
:D

[AlexMax]

The same thing would happen for Halo but its target audience is too busy getting drunk to remember why they had such a good time at the party... there was Halo but I bet it was the alcohol we better get more of that! (Actually I think the XBox 360 is old enough that game sales rather than system sales are a better metric for its popularity. There's a troll about how the first run was defective and everyone had to buy a new one there but I'm not going to make it. Oops!)

I'm more worried about defective units. That's the one thing preventing me from buying the 360. It has a ton of good games and seems to get the best of the multiplatform ports, but I'm not going to invest $400 in a console that has the potential to become a paperweight in six months. Still, Halo 3 had the biggest opening week of any form of entertainment, ever, even bigger than Spider Man 3, so that's still nothing to scoff at.

And for the record, I've been to Halo parties before, the ones held by nerds in the basement of a dorm as opposed to frat boys and beer, and it actually is tons of fun. At its height, I remember looking over the entire room's worth of players and seeing two full 4v4 games going at the same time, and more people waiting for the next round to play, which kind of blew me away at the time.


*edit* Guys should I buy Super Paper Mario or save the $50 for my upcoming honeymoon?

I'm not into the whole Paper Mario thing, but I have friends who play it pretty much constantly. However, from what I hear, unless you count the 100 level challenge dungeon (which is what my friends are stuck on), the game itself is actually rather short and easy.

[vegeta1215]

I'm not into the whole Paper Mario thing, but I have friends who play it pretty much constantly. However, from what I hear, unless you count the 100 level challenge dungeon (which is what my friends are stuck on), the game itself is actually rather short and easy.

Super Paper Mario is a good game, but yeah, it's short and easy and just not as fun as the other two Paper Mario games. I'd recommend getting the other two first if you haven't played them already (Paper Mario for N64 is on the VC. I got it that way and it plays great)

[mikeron]

Another fud article in the gaming industry. This is me dying of shock: ...

[AtmaWeapon]

Uhhh yeah about the counting....

It was originally two, but then I remembered the mario game so I changed it to three. Then, I remembered brawl but forgot to update the number. Oops.

Also yeah I know Halo did really well but I just don't like the game and I am going to make fun of it as long as that is true. I feel like by now the series has the same kind of power as a Zelda, Final Fantasy, or Street Fighter release and it is going to sell x units whether they advertise or not. Personally I find it to be an extremely bland game and I'm sorry that the genre has to put up with it.

[punkonjunk1024]

It will be a passing fad if game developers don't make some decent games.


Quoted for truth. The wii is an amazing system, and we need some amazing games.

I think Super mario galaxy and SSBB's degree of success will directly emulate the entire rest of the system.
I don't know. We'll see, huh? I still really really really really want one, but mostly for brawl. TP was so unexciting that I couldn't even really play through it. and I won't even get started on PH. Uhg. anyhow, I'm off topic hardcore.

I guess we'll see?

[vegeta1215]

I really wouldn't count Twilight Princess as a Wii game - it's a Gamecube game with tacked on Wii controls. It wasn't designed with the Wii in mind, not like MP3 was.

At first MP3 really made me doubt the future of the Wii because it just felt weird and I couldn't get used to the controls. But after about an hour or two I really got used to it, and I think it works really well. I read everywhere to use the "Advanced" setting, but it is far too sensitive for me, at least on my little TV (maybe it's different on a bigger tv). After sticking with the "Standard" setting and disabling free aim/lock-on, everything just fell into place.

[punkonjunk1024]

I'm still pretending MP3 doesn't exist yet. I want to play it so bad...

[AtmaWeapon]

Honestly MP3 is probably the first Wii game I've played that came close to using the controls properly. It still kind of hacks me off that they made Link right handed to make it "more natural" but all I ended up doing was randomly swinging the controller anyway.

[Breaker]

I bought an xbox 360 and a wii. Together, there's an excellent variety of games to play. If you're looking into buying a nex-gen console to play, I recommend saving up for both.

[Matteo]

Alex, I have owned pretty much every system in the last 15 years, and I currently have a 360 and Wii. I barely play my 360, despite the fact that I have countless arcade games, a few 360 games and many, many xbox ones. I play my Wii just about every day. It has so much to offer: Wii remote games, niche games that use any controller (mlb power pros, ssbb), all the VC games, even old GC games that were underappreciated. Halo is a joke of a game, just like Madden, that all the jock nerds love because its "cool" and features guns and loud noises. The Wii already is getting games like MLB Power Pros, a series 15 years old and finally released stateside, and it is the best baseball game ever made, go out and buy it if you don't have it already. Japanese gaming companies still are the cream of the crop, and they are really focusing on the Wii (and the DS) into the next year. Just a few games in the Wii lineup for holiday season:

Super Mario Galaxy
Nights
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles
Zack & Wiki
Mario & Sonic At The Olympics
Harvey Birdman
Link's Crossbow Training
Ghost Squad
Victorious Boxers
Fire Emblem
Manhunt 2
Soul Calibur Legends
Endless Ocean (might be pushed back)

None of these are cheap remakes or quick money franchises, I purposely left out GH3 MOH, etc as well as EA playground and other quick money games.

The Wii continues to be SOLD OUT in every store in the greater Philadelphia area! 5th biggest market in the country! I know this because friends, co-workers continue to look for one to no avail. Everybody I know still talks about it, gamers and no-gamers. The huge amount of games this holiday season is just going to bolster the image. Its going to be integrated into the framework of the average american's household. Just like the NES was before it. Just because the uberhardcore audience doesn't like it doesn't mean it won't be successful.

[AlexMax]

I bought an xbox 360 and a wii. Together, there's an excellent variety of games to play. If you're looking into buying a nex-gen console to play, I recommend saving up for both.

I would like to save up for a 360, but I'd like to see some sign that they're getting more stable first. Plus, more systems == more money I want to spend on games a month, and I simply don't really have the money for more than one or two games a month, if that.

Though you do bring up a thought in my head, I might consider selling my Wii at a profit and using the money to buy a 360, since I know two friends with Wii's, and they're going to be buying and playing the fuck out of Smash anyway, so it's not like I'm going to be missing out. e: Checked ebay, I don't think I would be making a profit if I did sell it.


Alex, I have owned pretty much every system in the last 15 years, and I currently have a 360 and Wii.

"TRUST ME ON THIS GUYS, I PLAY GAMES FOR A LIVING"


I barely play my 360, despite the fact that I have countless arcade games, a few 360 games and many, many xbox ones. I play my Wii just about every day. It has so much to offer: Wii remote games, niche games that use any controller (mlb power pros, ssbb), all the VC games, even old GC games that were underappreciated.

What exactly do you play on your Wii on a day in day out basis?


Halo is a joke of a game, just like Madden, that all the jock nerds love because its "cool" and features guns and loud noises.

Halo is a good game. It may not be a game that you like, but it's an extremely polished shooter with well thought out mechanics and great multiplayer to boot.


The Wii already is getting games like MLB Power Pros, a series 15 years old and finally released stateside, and it is the best baseball game ever made, go out and buy it if you don't have it already. Japanese gaming companies still are the cream of the crop,

"GLORIOUS NIPPON GAMES ARE BETTER THAN DIRTY GANJIN GAMES FROM UNITED STATES"


and they are really focusing on the Wii (and the DS) into the next year. Just a few games in the Wii lineup for holiday season:

Super Mario Galaxy: OK I'm genuinely excited about this one.
Nights: Ditto, but this is modern Sonic Team we're talking about here so I don't really have high hopes.
Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles: Not really sure what to expect, I'm sure it'll be a good game but I'm not sure if it's worth picking up on release day.
Zack & Wiki: What the hell is this?
Mario & Sonic At The Olympics: What makes this different from every other Olympic cash in? By the way, if you want Mario and Sonic in the same game, SSBB is coming next year.
Harvey Birdman: Unless it has Mentok, Reducto and Phil Ken Seben (all voiced by Stephen Colbert), forget about it.
Link's Crossbow Training: Duck Hunt with a Zelda Cash-in. It comes with the Wii Zapper though, which brings us to...
Ghost Squad: Hrm, I'm actually a fan of arcade shooters on consoles (Time Crisis 2 woot), and this one might be interesting. I don't know about 49 dollar interesting though.
Victorious Boxers: What the hell is this?
Fire Emblem: Oh hey, the most annoying tatical RPG ever comes back for yet another sequel? Sign me up!
Manhunt 2: Ooooooh, me likey.
Soul Calibur Legends: I've seen videos of this in action and it looks awkward as hell. Will believe it when I read reviews of it.
Endless Ocean (might be pushed back): What the hell is this?

Comments posted beside the games in question. And honestly, how many of those do you honestly expect to sell that many copies? If you look at software sales charts, Nintendo games tend to be the only Wii games that reach any meaningful positions on them, with a nice spread of third party games on the other platforms.


None of these are cheap remakes or quick money franchises, I purposely left out GH3 MOH, etc as well as EA playground and other quick money games.

The Wii continues to be SOLD OUT in every store in the greater Philadelphia area! 5th biggest market in the country! I know this because friends, co-workers continue to look for one to no avail. Everybody I know still talks about it, gamers and no-gamers. The huge amount of games this holiday season is just going to bolster the image. Its going to be integrated into the framework of the average american's household. Just like the NES was before it. Just because the uberhardcore audience doesn't like it doesn't mean it won't be successful.

Of course it won't. Bubbles generally don't reveal themselves to the unobservant until it's too late. In a country that is not as supply constrained like Japan, it has shown a couple of consecutive months of slowing down. And it's apparently a real enough concern that those developers from GLORIOUS NIPPON aren't investing as many resources in Wii games as they could be, after being burned on a poor third party support in the first round of games, see Nintendo's domination of Wii sales charts as stated earlier.

[Warlock]

I would like to save up for a 360, but I'd like to see some sign that they're getting more stable first.

You've got a 3 year warrenty now. Just take the plunge :P

[Matteo]

The Wii is selling like hotcakes in Japan, as are Japanese Wii 3rd party games, hence Japanese game developers (I like them) are focusing more on the Wii. This has a trickle down effect to the U.S. as we will eventually get the games that the PS2/PS1/SNES/NES got, i.e. the great Japanese niche games that they make on whatever system Japan likes the most at the time.

Its sad that pretty much every game on the 360 this holiday is a sequel (yeah thats a trend in the Wii too). The only 360 game that interests me is Mass Effect. And after Jade Empire, I'm not so sure how its going to be yet.

Alex, I play Super Paper Mario, MLB Power Pros (great baseball +rpg elements), and MP3 (as well as WiiPlay and WiiSports). I also play alot of GC games, but the VC is just glorious. I play all the games I missed out the first time around, as well as ones (Super Metroid FTW) that I never get tired of.

I can't believe you haven't heard of Zack and Wiki!
Victorious Boxers is kind of a mix between Punch Out! and Wii Boxing.
Eternal Ocean is an underwater exploration game.

I'm surprised you own a Wii and barely know anything about the games that the system has/has in development.


Oh yeah, and a Hard Drive add-on is coming. Some of the WiiWare games will need it (like the FF Chronicles spin-off)

[Breaker]

There are several awesome games coming out for the 360. Assassin's Creed and Lost Odyssey, to name two.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Odyssey

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin's_Creed

[MottZilla]

Just because Wii sells out is no reason to think it's dominating. Nintendo uses the technique of "just enough". They don't over supply, they try to keep units from sitting on the shelves really. And this year it's going to be alot harder for the Wii. With the PS3's $400 model and the Xbox 360 Premium at $350, that $250 Wii is looking awfully overpriced still in my eyes.

Sure there's no doubt the Nintendo titles will be good stuff, but just like a repeat of GameCube it will stay like that I think. Sure you will have a few 3rd party titles that are great stuff. GameCube had the Metal Gear Solid remake and Resident Evil 4 (exclusive for awhile...). But really the Wii is just the platform for Nintendo's own titles primarily. I admit that for the past year my Xbox 360 is basically a Gears of War machine, but it was certainly worth it. I couldn't possibly get the same amount of playtime out of the Wii. I know people say oh it's the gameplay that counts, the graphics don't matter, blah blah blah. Well that's bullshit.

When you go back to do retrogaming, yes you appreciate games with vastly inferior hardware. But you are thinking in a retro mindset for them. The Wii is a system in the age of high definition, large amounts of memory, and blue laser optical discs. And yet the Wii is the GameCube, overclocked with some changes here and there. It's just sad for $250. I want 720p resolution, bump mapping, shaders, massive amounts of geometry on screen, etc. I absolutely was amazed when I first played Dead Rising and saw all those zombies...

The newer technology doesn't just offer better graphics but allows for games are larger scales than ever before. I like the Wii, I just don't feel the price is justified. Which is funny cause everyone was praising the price against PS3 and X360. Atleast I feel the money I've dropped into the 360 was worth it. I probably spent 600$ or more when I first bought it with a couple games. Even if I'd spent $600 on Wii it wouldn't have been worth it.

Ofcourse these days I tend to be all about the online multiplayer anyway.

[Matteo]

Yeah I forgot about Lost Odyssey. I will prob be picking that up if its good. Assassins Creed, meh not my kind of game. BTW, Blue Dragon is horrible. So glad I didn't buy it. I still need to pick up Eternal Sonata. I'm not dissing the 360 by any means but the high profile games (Halo 3, Madden, Bioshock, Rock Band etc) don't really interest me. I am more into games like Katamari Damacy, Worms, and Zack and Wiki. Also, the arcade games, save for a few have been terrible. They make the demos fun and the games seem great, and then you buy the full game and its crap after 10 minutes. I'd rather play NES Contra offline than arcade Contra online any day of the week.

[Grasshopper]

I have a new pet peev...labelling Halo as a 'jock' game. :)

You're doing two things here. You're saying that only jocks play Halo, and your also implying that I'm a nerd. (If we must categorize the population like that :rolleyes: ) Maybe Halo is just one of those games that different types of people like to play. I like to play Halo at times.

Just because Xbox 360 and PS3 can produce some nice visuals doesn't mean all their games are better than ones on inferior technology (any generation). I don't think people can argue that graphics don't help sell game, but just because its there doesn't mean it has a better good/bad ratio compared to what it was like back in the 80s. Pros and Cons aside, I get the feeling some think that because someone owns a system with better graphics, they are guarenteed a better chance at getting good games, which I don't believe is true. The chance for a stinker is just the same as it is on any other system.

Wii has quite a bit of those, but I don't think it has anything to do with its system specs. If it looked better than a PS3, I bet those games would still be bad, it would just take longer to realize it. Heh

[Matteo]

What I meant by "jock nerd" is the gamers who only play the big sports franchises and fps'ers... the same ones who continue to support games that are all style and little substance. It was an unfair classification and I apologize. However, in general there are far too many games out there that sell great (Lost Planet) and play horrible, because they fit into this "modern cool" standard. I'm not saying Halo is a "bad" game by any means, its just that it is the leader in a genre that I feel is detrimental to gaming culture and teenage society.

[AlexMax]

What I meant by "jock nerd" is the gamers who only play the big sports franchises and fps'ers... the same ones who continue to support games that are all style and little substance. It was an unfair classification and I apologize. However, in general there are far too many games out there that sell great (Lost Planet) and play horrible, because they fit into this "modern cool" standard. I'm not saying Halo is a "bad" game by any means, its just that it is the leader in a genre that I feel is detrimental to gaming culture and teenage society.

There have always been bad games and stupid cash-ins on trends. Blaming Halo 3, a genuinely good game, for the rest of the forgettable quasi-realistic brown shooters isn't quite fair in my book, just like blaming Doom for the glut of retarded ego shooters of the 90's, blaming Mario for the glut of retarded platformers we had in the 80's, or blaming Pac Man for the glut of retarded maze runners we had in the 70's, not to mention things like GTA for the industries hard-on with "open ended gameplay", Final Fantasy for the buckets of shovelware animu RPG's, etc.

If money was no object, this is what I would probably have for a 360 tomorrow:

Halo 3
Gears of War
Project Gotham Racing 4
Dead Rising
Skate
Bomberman Live (XBLA)
Carcasonne (XBLA)
Catan (XBLA)
Doom (XBLA)
Every Extend Extra Extreme (XBLA)
Lumines Live (XBLA)
Marble Blast Ultra (XBLA)
Pac Man Championship (XBLA)
Super Puzzle Fighter II (XBLA)
Tetris Splash (XBLA)
Worms (XBLA)

So basically a shitload of Live Arcade games and the odd shooter. Pus these:

Rent:
Earth Defense Force 2017 (I hear it gets repetative)
Armored Core 4 (I'm probably way late on the online bandwagon)
Saints Row (Saints Row 2 is coming soon)
Ace Combat 6 (I hear its awesome)
Stuntman Ignition (Ditto)
Bioshock (I ought to play through it at least once, but no online play means no full price purchase for me)

Upcoming:
Rez HD'

And god knows what I'm missing

[Warlock]

And god knows what I'm missing

Crackdown :)

[AlexMax]

Crackdown :)

Heard that it was repetative "Skills for kills, agent", online mode was buggy as all hell and people only bought it for Halo 3 beta.

[MottZilla]

Crackdown was cool, but the beta was the main selling point which is long over. It's a decent game that can be found used for cheap now that the beta is gone and all those unwanted copies are out there.

[Warlock]

Yeah, it's a great game. It doesn't have a lot of replay value, but it's fun while it lasts. And yeah, they drastically marked the price down after the beta (I should have totally waited.. bah)

[AlexMax]

Console Week Weekly Total
DS 154 83,769 (+3%) 20,100,295
PS3 53 63,037 (+270%) 1,349,072
PSP 153 55,072 (-7%) 6,891,808
Wii 50 32,783 (-17%) 3,787,453
PS2 402 9,238 (-15%) 22,173,751
360 101 6,847 (-62%) 489,707
GBA 347 314 (-6%) 16,699,907
GC 322 70 (-25%) 4,023,991

Just thought I'd point out that the PS3 is beating the Wii this month in japan. Apparently Japanese people love to kill shitloads of Chinese people because Dynasty Warriors 6 seems to be the system mover this month.

[Breaker]

Too bad Dynasty Warriors 6 looks just like the one on the PS2.

[AlexMax]

Too bad Dynasty Warriors 6 looks just like the one on the PS2.

Not that that has ever stopped people from buying sequels. *points to Madden*

Also, slightly off topic, but this is a pretty lol thread on gamefaqs (http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/genmessage.php?board=927750&topic=39577446)

[jman2050]

Seeing as the Wii just sold over 500k in th US alone in October (the 2nd highest ever for that month btw), I think this thread title is a bit incongruous.

Japan is just crazy though. No one appaantly gives a crap about consoles anymore, it's all about the DS now, and to a lesser extent PSP O_o

[Matteo]

Seeing as the Wii just sold over 500k in th US alone in October (the 2nd highest ever for that month btw), I think this thread title is a bit incongruous.

Japan is just crazy though. No one appaantly gives a crap about consoles anymore, it's all about the DS now, and to a lesser extent PSP O_o


Thats why the NSMB versus SMG numbers aren't a good statistic. (see other threads, etc) The DS userbase is insane in Japan versus the Wii userbase. I don't know what the ratio is but I bet it is at least 4:1; DS:Wii....

[MasterSwordUltima]

Thats interesting, because about a week ago I took out my DS and started to replay FF3DS...also Drawn to Life is probably the most fun game ever.

I bought a crappy $3 "light-gun converter" on eBay for my Wii...makes playing RE4 incredibly awkward. I may get an official Zapper, only because it has better button placement for holding than this handgun model has. I also need to pick up RE:UC sometime this week.

[Breaker]

One thing that's getting to me is the lack of good RPG games, and not just on the Wii, but the 360 as well.

[Warlock]

One thing that's getting to me is the lack of good RPG games, and not just on the Wii, but the 360 as well.

I heard Eternal Sonata was actually pretty good. I still need to check out the demo :P

But yeah, 360 I know does have a few on the way - at least one from Square. There is also a rumor that the ex-Square guy who created the Final Fantasy series (who I think is now with Monolyth?) is working on an RPG (or MMO?) for Wii.

[Matteo]

One thing that's getting to me is the lack of good RPG games, and not just on the Wii, but the 360 as well.


Agreed. I have been thinking about going out and re-buying (I sold mine a year and a half ago) a PS2 because of all the great rpg's I miss being able to play.

I will probably get Eternal Sonata after the holidays sometime, I really like what I saw, and what I played on the demo.

For me, the last great RPG was DQVIII, and as nice as Lost Odyssey looks, I doubt it will hold up to my ridiculous rpg standards. Playing the gem that is SMG has reminded me that video games have really taken a down-turn in terms of gameplay in recent years, I think my expectations/standards have been lowered by all the over-marketed snooze-fests that have been released.

I am looking forward to the Wii Okami seeing as it is the game I wanted to play most last year and never did.

If anyone was is a fan of Mario Golf, Camelot, the developer, is coming out with a Wii game this Spring called Wii Love Golf. I expect it to be nothing short of brilliant.

But yeah, theres not a lot to look forward to right now. Obviously, Mario Kart and SSBB (not a big fan of the old games...but might get into this one)... but what else in 2008? I can't think of anything for 360/Wii right now offhand... It all series... series after series after series... :(

[AlexMax]

One thing that's getting to me is the lack of good RPG games, and not just on the Wii, but the 360 as well.

Eternal Sonata?
Blue Dragon?
Lost Odyssey?

And if you're looking for CRPG's, I'd get the Witcher, it's probably one of the best CRPG's released in the last couple of years, with Mask of the Betrayer making a good showing as well.

[Imprisoned]

some are concerned about making games for the platform because they're afraid they won't sell very well.
Well, I would say it's obviously pressure because previously (time of PS2, Xbox and GCN), for some reason, Sony and Microsoft had beaten Nintendo pretty badly, but now N rised to the top again, of course they think they would fall again.

[The_Amaster]

Yeah, Imprisoned has a point. Nintendo took a huge fall with the PS2 and XBox. They're back on top again (arguable, I know) but that memory is still there, and I'd be paranoid as well.