Sentiments about the state of AGN

[Mitsukara]

So, I could go into a really elaborate attempt to describe what I recall of AGN's history here. I won't, because that would obscure the point I'm going to try to make, it would be boring, and it would likely be inaccurate. Instead I will insert references to things as relevant to my general point, minor examples on the side for you to consider or ignore as you please.

What I'm going to do is basically express something really general that I feel has always been an issue, but not try to cite examples to back that sentiment up because I haven't the enthusiasm for it.

AGN has been a good community at times. It's inadvertently had huge effects on my life, and sometimes so for others as well; but mostly it's just a place where people hang out and talk. That's well and good. Many smart, clever, cool people have come and gone here.

Unfortunately, AGN has never, ever had structure, balance, or fairness. There were times when it was reasonably well managed, namely with Shadowblazer and Eckels handling things, but they've moved on to dealing with real life, and good for them. But as a community, AGN has always been skewed. War Lord cares just enough to own the place and try to keep it up and "alive", but has never really tried to make it a good forum community in my opinion; originally his friends were given leeway to do whatever they wished and consequences be damned, even if they were morons (anyone remember Frost?). This is not good management and it was harmful to the community. Since then, the problem has shifted around to different sources over time, but the consistant theme that remains is unbalance, unfairness, and always at least one petty, stupid feud going on. This continues today.

Sure, there are "terms of service" and it sounds well and good, but having rules, practicing them, and furthermore making the right compromises to maintain a peaceful, fair, friendly environment, are all quite separate things. AGN has never once succeeded at the latter, although the huge influx of people in 2001 combined with a lack of developed bad blood and bad staff helped keep things nicer for a time (not that I'm saying the present staff- what little seems to exist of it- is in any way bad, but there have been some very dubious examples. Mercy comes to mind in particular, and while I've come to respect him as a person and the general mythos about him is greatly exaggerated, Breaker was indeed a "strong arm" and has expressed, directly, that he doesn't care about the good of the community a whit).

AGN has never been friendly. The chat was a childish dictatorship until people lost interest so much that the thing has pretty much withered and died. The forums are little better, save that people have cared enough- many of them only due to rose-tinted memories and desire to talk to somebody in a semi-active forum for the heck of it- to actually still attend. A very few people. AGN has lost easily 2/3rds of it's long-time regulars; here's a list from memory. To add to the fun, I'll put a mark by any person that was gone for any significant chunk of time:

Warlord*
Shadowblazer
Phantom Menace
Nutz4Linux
Radium (my memory fails)
Warlock (see above)
Sarria (orignally known as Skeeve22, also KingArthur)
Jennifer (Originally known as Tails)*
Glenn the Great*
Moocow
Mrz84
MetaStaiford
Vegeta1215
Lilith (Originally known as QueenXaviera)
Kenage
Kariqual Insanity
Plith
Nonsensical (?)
Darth Chronic*
Goatboy
Axel
Breaker (?) (Hello, sorry if I'm a bit rude to you with all this XD)
Mercy (Some abscenses are good in the opinions of some)
Ibis, God of Magicks (for personal reasons not pertaining wholly to the nature of the forums... although that likely didn't help)
Zeo
Elemental_Knight
Dark Templar
Peach
Starkist
TGF Guy
JJ Maxx
Foxy
MrGame202 (I think that was his name? The old moderator guy?)
Dark Nation (?)
Eckels
Cyberkitten*
Zaphod Q. IX (Did I mention some abscenses are good?)
Beldaran*
Valerie/VEL
Aegix Runestone(?)
ShadowTiger (originally known as BrittainHero4)
Goki (?)*
Phattonez
Aegix Drakan (sorry!)
Biggiy05
Glitch

I could try to go on, but I think it makes enough of a point that I can think of 20 regular members who are long gone and not as many who are regulars now.

AGN can be a nice place to talk, now and then. But ultimately, there keeps being some stupid drama, etc. etc, bannings, etc. etc, bullshit, on and on. This cannot be blamed entirely on individuals' personal problems, although they certainly play a part in it.

The thing is, the community is not really fair, not really balanced. Sure, Glenn has flaws, but all present drama is tainted by old experiences; there's this huge, glaring assumption by most that he will never, ever change. He's not even allowed to anymore. Punishments and warnings are doled out on reputation, not on legitimate, fresh experiences. No one tries to keep an open mind or perspective.

There are almost no staff members. It's not even really a staff, it's just a couple of people running things the way they personally feel is right. That's well and good, but that's how AGN's always been run, and it's not well and good at all; it's crap. AGN should have a real staff, with real rules, with real "clean slates", open process, and input allowed by all members.

Also daunting AGN is a lack of purpose. ZC was a hell of a purpose, yes, and the program is still being improved, but it's not enough to make the community work anymore; it's old news. Real old. 5 years+ old. Shattered Earth, frankly, always struck me as unambitious, uncreative, and unstable, and it never improved and collapsed pretty quickly and easily; it's pretty damn dead now. The whole "Classic NES site" thing is a neat idea, but (A) it's been done, elsewhere, better, many times, and (B) we lack the real staff and enthusiasm to actually make such a thing worthwhile in it's own right.

Finally daunting AGN is a lack of stability. I'm sorry, but to be totally blunt, zeldaclassic.com is a piece of shit. It's updated annually, has a broken quest database, and not only features ancient versions of ZC in it's downloads area, but no clues as to how to find the super-secret hidden legendary mystical betas that can only be found via tiny-ass link on the forums. You expect people to find out and be interested by this?

Add to that the weak traffic of the forums and growing lack of interest, and frankly, AGN's starting to look like nothing more than a zombie of what it used to be.

Split off from AGN are many communities that are doing far better than it is, it seems. Gaming Universe and PureZC in particular come to mind; Kenage pretty much has to hide out and change her name to get away from this place, at that, and I find that sad; but yes, her forums are much nicer than these, too, and have more activity. Hell, while their site may be faulty, it's sadly a much, much better Zelda Classic resource than Zeldaclassic.com. At least you can actually, y'know, download custom quests and tilesets and stuff there. While I don't frequent it, I have to say their chat's looking a lot more lively and nice than AGN's has in 5 years, too.

In other words, what Breaker said to me some time ago is exactly right: "AGN is a small and dying forum." The thing is, it's dying because it lacked self-control in the first place, which lead to shooting itself in the foot repeatedly, then it curled up and waited to die while occasionally having violent tremors that seem like wild, far-out parties from it's perspective.

I hang around- and I use that term loosely given how I pretty much just randomly pop in when I feel like it- only because of nostalgia (which is never really satisfied by such visits) and because, at least for the time being, there's a few regulars around who might give interesting responses to stuff I say. Maybe.

My thought, then, is that if anyone cares enough to stop AGN from continuing this downward spiral until it crumbles altogether, then not only say so, but start doing something about it while you have some sort of a chance. AGN needs a staff, if the current staff is willing to work with it's people enough to enlarge (I recommend trying to do so fairly, like letting people request it, considering it, evaluating it, and making an open process of the whole decision; no BS random admin'ing of people you happen to like); there are people here who, if they cared, were interested, maybe brainstormed, could come up with ideas together for some kind of real projects or purposes to the site; and for god's sakes, does no one exist that can fix zeldaclassic.com? The site is just plain awful, and it's doing ZC a disservice just by existing in such a state.

These are just my thoughts. Do with them what you will.

P.S., I'm not officially sure who did that although it's pretty easy to guess, but I disincluded Amber because I didn't want to "drag her into" my little AGN rant, as I consider her a good friend. I was also trying to list main regulars that people would remember; Amber posted less than a hundred times if memory serves. Editing someone else's post without announcement in some kind of strange attempt to make a personal jab is sure kindly, professional, and mature, though.

[Breaker]

Mercy is quite female. I've met her in person.

[phattonez]

I made the point a while ago about the lack of staff, but unfourtunately, I'm not the linguist that you are.

http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98884

It was popular for a day and then died. I hope that this gathers some attention because it really is pathetic what this forum is turning into.

[Beldaran]

I saw what Breaker wrote before he edited it out, and basically he called us all prepubescent idiots and/or adults whose testicles have yet to drop.

So clearly it is our immaturity that has killed AGN, and not people like Breaker.

Apparently if you don't enjoy getting treated like crap from some keyboard cowboy like Breaker, it means your testicles haven't dropped.

[erm2003]

A lot of people have offered assistance by showing interest in moderating, helping restore/fix the QDB, and unfortunately most offerings have been ignored. It's no wonder that people feel AGN is in this position.

Thank you Jennifer for sharing your thoughts here. I can only hope eventually these types of threads will lead to some sort of change to help various parts of AGN get back on its feet.

[Aegix Drakan]

hhmm...Jen has a point.

AGN is kinda falling apart. Some kind of action should be taken to prevent it from completely going to pieces.

And as far as I can tell AGN has never been very nice. But that can be countered by the fact that there are genuinely nice people here *nods towards ST, Prrkitty, and Jen, and the other great people*.

I just want to know how it can be fixed, and what we can all do about it. I don't want this site to die out.



BTW, in case anyone wondred I am NOT Aegix Runestone.

[mrz84]

That is a good read there and it makes many valid points. I also wish I was on that list since I've been coming here since I registered, but meh. That's not the real issue here. The real issue is making AGN a better place for the people who come to have fun and all that good stuff. Such a solution will not come easily though as it must be something everyone can agree on which will not be easy.

On a side note: I forgot how creepy Breaky's avatar is. It look like he'll bite my head off if I let my guard down. :odd:

[Pineconn]

IMO, the most important thing AGN needs right this second is an ambitious and active staff. Administrators practically do not exist (save War Lord who is slowly stabilizing the new QDB, Warlock who inhabits the gaming forum often, and Dark Nation who is helping with the ZC betas). But as I take a look at the Forum Leaders (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showgroups.php), I do not even know half of them, and a half of the ones I know, I never knew were mods since they don't [seem] to do much.

Jennifer, you make very excellent points. I'd love to see AGN become magnificent again, and I would do whatever I could, but there are no opportunities for people like me to do anything. For example, I and Rocksfan have, over the past 2 years, volunteered numerously to help fix ZC.com and/or the new QDB, but the site of course is a sad project today.

The same pattern has occurred in the development of ZC 2.5. Thankfully Freedom gave the devs a kick in the butt (more so _L_ than the rest), and it is becoming more and more stable.

[phattonez]

^^Umm, Lilith hasn't even posted in this thread.

So Breaker, only the cool people have left? AGN is just a nerd haven? Maybe goKi was right and we should just let AGN die because otherwise we aren't cool, and then what will our lives be?

[ShadowTiger]

It was sort of discouraging to have seen Breaker's original post before the edit. (I got there not one minute after he'd posted.) I've seen a lot of very encouraging posts from him in certain places, but that was just awkward to read...

It's really, really nice that so many people are so pro-AGN's future. It's certainly understandable to some degree that people grow up and have lives, or grow tired of a place. Eight or nine years of a forum must grow tiring on a person. (AGN existed in a certain form before 2000.) Just, .. if you don't want to be bothered about it, set someone up who wouldn't mind being bothered with it.



^^Umm, Lilith hasn't even posted in this thread.Intriguing. Anyway,

No offense to the guy, but no PM I've ever sent Warlock has ever been replied to, nor have I ever seen him do anything administrative. The latter, of course, is due to permission masks and lack of clairvoyance, but the former is a little bit alarming. The latter could even use some little reminders of performance as well. Remember what Spiderman's mother said.

[phattonez]

Well don't forget that he's still Breaker, and he's still a dick. However, now it seems like he's not so confident since he changed it so fast.

[vegeta1215]

I've been here for a long time, so hopefully you all will listen to what I say, as I'm sure you wouldn't expect some of these comments coming from me.

AGN is an internet forum - we come and we talk about video games amongst other things. And just like in real life, not everyone is nice, and those people that aren't nice aren't going to be nice just because you don't like them.

Yeah, a lot of good members have left. A lot of them are concentrating on their real lives, and face it, a lot of them are growing up. Not everyone wants to post on a small internet message board about video games their whole life. Me, I've skimmed other message boards, and the amount of stupidity and childishness I see is what keeps me away from them. I like it here. I like having a small group of people I can chat with about the latest games who can make more than a stupid one-liner comment. Members have left, and it's silly to expect them to always be here. But a lot have stayed, and a lot of good ones have joined along the way who are still here.

Me, I'm a mod, but I've never stopped posting. I do what I've always done, and if some posts in my sections need cleaning up, I do it. Simple as that. Those above me do the same and just happen to have banning power. You talk about structure, but what more do you want? There have been times when former staff tried to make a bigger deal about the staff than it really needed to be, and it was stupid. If the staff is doing it's job you shouldn't have to see them doing it.

Yeah, some personal feuds have spilled over in the public, and I don't like it - I've made it a point not to discuss staff related topics in public forums or fight with people in public. But just like real life, people fight. The best we can do is keep out those that cause the most problems, but seeing that anyone can join AGN, it's not always easy. We can't pick who will post.

I've seen these threads before, and I roll my eyes every time I do because all anyone ever does is complain, without offering much else. Want more activity? Tell your friends about AGN, start a campaign, become more active yourself! You don't need forum staff to do that!

Hopefully this thread won't turn into one big fight, but I've been here longer than most of you, I've seen it all.

UPDATE: btw, I don't follow Zelda Classic anymore, and I don't know what is going on in development now, but I agree the website should be fixed - but there are few people with access to that, and also fewer people higher ups would trust to manage it. We (the staff) are thinking about it though.

[phattonez]

I've seen these threads before, and I roll my eyes every time I do because all anyone ever does is complain, without offering much else. Want more activity? Tell your friends about AGN, start a campaign, become more active yourself! You don't need forum staff to do that!

I'm pretty sure that Jennifer and I made good points in the threads that we made, and we're both pretty active, so this doesn't make sense to me.

We need people who can do exciting things with the site, which means SMs and admins. Mods can only do so much, but I really think that we need more admins to keep things running smoothly.

[vegeta1215]

I didn't mean to sound like I was pointing fingers at you two, so I'm sorry if you feel that way. There have just been many many threads like this in the past, and it's always the same thing. I guess I feel that way because I am fine with how things are. I do miss a lot of old members though.

I've never been a big topic starter, but I've managed to steadily contribute to threads. I'm personally happy with where I am as a regular mod since the forums I mod are the ones I read (I don't read much in GD for instance, and would not want to mod it). In the past there are times where I would've liked to have been able to ban spammers, but with ck and a few others back, stuff like that is getting taken care of.

[The_Amaster]

I really wish that I had been here back in AGN's heyday. I hear you all talking about it and I just feel a bit left out.

I agree that we need to promote/help ZC to pull new people in, and a new staff to control things when we get there. ZC development is fairly active, bugs being fixed, and 2.5 nearing, but zeldaclassic.com is a total mess. I know that I would do most anything and take on any responsibility to help this place out. I'd volunteer to be a mod or smod, except that I know I'm so far down on the respect/seniority chain.


but there are no opportunities for people like me to do anything. For example, I and Rocksfan have, over the past 2 years, volunteered numerously to help fix ZC.com and/or the new QDB, but the site of course is a sad project today.

Totally. One of the best ways to put it.

I also have to wonder what other features the forum could have to pull people in. The return of the arcade would be nice, and some new reviews. But we also need other new stuff that people can't get anywhere else.
Okay, crazy idea time, and the devs can feel free to shoot me, but based on what I've seen done with ZC, MarioClassic, MetroidClassic, FinalFantasyClassic, and others would certainly be viable options.

And yet...I know that this thread is pointless. Part of me just despairs at getting the attention of anyone who has the power to do anything.

[Beldaran]

I think the reason people are dissatisfied is not random, meaningless complaining, but rather a disappointment that so many members have left because some of the staff (especially in the past, not so much now) have been so horribly unprofessional and negative towards people.

The reason there are 3 or 4 other boards filled with members that used to or would have posted at AGN is because they were driven away by the behavior of the staff.

[Lilith]

His name was Radium! Not Radiant. Also I remember plith and nonny. And I love you guys.

[Masamune]

I still say we should all elect Masa for admin. He is strong, yet gentle.

[Lilith]

i can testify to this

[Breaker]

Well don't forget that he's still Breaker, and he's still a dick. However, now it seems like he's not so confident since he changed it so fast.

Not at all, I just forgot how much I disliked getting involved in these little discussions with you guys, hence I edited it out. I'm hardly a keyboard cowboy. Aside from deleting spam from the forums, the last thing I did for AGN was unban Glenn the Great, Beldaran, ane others. I can't be blamed for the recent bullshit that's been plaguing the forums.

Unless of course it's to blame me for unbanning them to begin with.

I haven't been very active at all on the forums lately due to other commitments. Don't mistake this for arrogance, but I've just moved on from AGN. It's a small community of people that need to stop bickering with eachother and instead work on increasing activity, which everyone is capable of by posting more.

Edit: Wanna know something kinda funny? I only unbanned Beldaran, Glenn, and the others to bring some activity back to the forum, since the regulars weren't. I'm a firm believer of any activity is good activity, even if it's people bitching about how much they hate you guys.

Stop making me out to be the bad guy already and get over yourselves.

[Freedom]

Hey....
We need people to test the Quarantined bugs in the latest version to make sure those bugs are truly dead. ;)

Once that's done, the developers can get on with a stable release.

Once that comes, then quests will be built and released again.

Once the Quest data base is fixed, they can upload those quests.

Once they upload those quests, new members will pour in here to play them, like they used to.

All the effort discussing it in this thread could have resulted in 2 pages or more of quarantined bug reports being knocked out. ;)

Having any?

[cyberkitten]

Well don't forget that he's still Breaker, and he's still a dick.

you don't have to like him, but you can't flame him. infraction noted, don't do it again.

[Starkist]

Nobody ever remembers Starkist. :waggle:

[Beldaran]

Nobody ever remembers Starkist. :waggle:

That's because nobody ever sees Starkist. How often do you post now? Once a month? Twice?

[Gleeok]

Well I haven't been here that long to comment on the first matter in any way. But I also beleive zeldaclassic.com has got to be fixed at some point. There's no working database, the newest zc engine on the downloads page is 2.10, (and we all know how great that one turned out) and i've alway's wondered why there is no arcade...i've heard there was one at one time though. Bring back the arcade!

I'm assuming there is some sort of plan by Warlord, the admins, and devs to get the database working again once 2.5 is released.
...At least I would hope there would be one.


I also have to wonder what other features the forum could have to pull people in. The return of the arcade would be nice, and some new reviews. But we also need other new stuff that people can't get anywhere else.
Okay, crazy idea time, and the devs can feel free to shoot me, but based on what I've seen done with ZC, MarioClassic, MetroidClassic, FinalFantasyClassic, and others would certainly be viable options.

FinalFantasyClassic....That would be awesome! I second this. Although you'd need some people willing to start this project.

[Beldaran]

With RPGMaker out there, there is really no need for Final Fantasy Classic

[DarkDragon]

That is a 100% awesome idea in theory, but look also at how much manpower and effort by the developers, testers, and users it takes to maintain ZC. Every now and then somebody comes along who tries to assemble the resources to start up a new AGN project, but few reach critical momentum - see Open Zelda, Galaga Advanced, Project Seven, etc.

Although starting a new, successful project is probably the best way to revitalize the forum, it is also the solution that is completely beyond the control of the staff.

[vegeta1215]

Hey....
We need people to test the Quarantined bugs in the latest version to make sure those bugs are truly dead. ;)

Once that's done, the developers can get on with a stable release.

Once that comes, then quests will be built and released again.

Once the Quest data base is fixed, they can upload those quests.

Once they upload those quests, new members will pour in here to play them, like they used to.

All the effort discussing it in this thread could have resulted in 2 pages or more of quarantined bug reports being knocked out. ;)

Having any?

You heard him people :D

[Matteo]

1. Breaker is the man, don't doubt him
2. Starkist is always around, how can you forget him?
3. Thanks for not even bothering to mention me, even though I've been around the whole time too...=p
4. No mention of TSA?

I am sick of people complaining about the forums, when everyone is individually responsible for his or her own activity and posting.

[Dechipher]

I wasn't on the list.

We had FF3 Remake, but that kinda died. I believe Kryten was the homeboy with the 411 on that shit.

I don't think AGN is dying and I think I'm one of the few people who still say that. Everyone freaks out about the lack of AGN's activity, but honestly, I'm seeing just as much as everytime else, it's just different people. The Dechiphers and Beldarans of years past are now the Amasters and Pineconns, and I don't think that's a bad thing. Although I am quite certain that myself and Beldaran were poor examples, but I'm drunk so leave me alone. :D

[ShadowTiger]

1. Breaker is the man, don't doubt him
2. Starkist is always around, how can you forget him?
3. Thanks for not even bothering to mention me, even though I've been around the whole time too...=p
4. No mention of TSA?

I am sick of people complaining about the forums, when everyone is individually responsible for his or her own activity and posting.

It's all relative, isn't it? :shrug: It's entirely obvious that you would see your own posts, and know how much you're posting. Just, not everyone else would see all those posts as you would. Nobody is clairvoyant.

As it's been said (Or at least implied...) in this very thread, it's often the little stuff that you can't see that makes it all add up. Spammers get KO'd well before they cause too much havoc, and topics get moved fairly easily, and ... ... well, I'm not even sure what else is generally done, because there's not that much to even moderate on a forum of this current size. (Hence, is there really a "problem" with the staff? I can only think of one, and it's a minor, if not semi-trivial one. I'll mention it in a bit.) So yes, the Moderators and Senior Moderators are certainly doing their job as a team. As individuals, however, that's not really so easy to monitor. It's easy for one or two people to do all the work and have the rest just sort of be there, but it's also very much quite possible for them to take "turns" in being inactive for a while while those other inactive staff suddenly become active again to take over.

It's also quite possible for staff to go entirely unmentioned and unseen due to taking all of their potentially myriadic actions behind the scenes where nobody can even see them do it. Banning Spammers, deleting posts, making up new rules and debating on policies, advertising for the community, management, etc, ... all done without necessarily being able to be seen by the public. (Hence Private Staff Forums.) I know for a fact that this is very possible. (I do it on Pure all the freaking time.)

But for those reasons, it's important to post once in a while in the public forums just to let people know that you're alive, so these sorts of discussions can be avoided. Just one or two posts a week. That's really all it takes. Two posts a week isn't hard, right? :-/


And yes, Breaker is the man, and No, TSA hasn't been around to do anything at all. (He's even inactive on TheHylia, for whatever it's worth.)

[Gerudo]

I can see the main reason behind adding an SMOD or two. It's been a small while since the lower staff has tried to get one added because for the simple fact that we can't ban. There's been a few instances where we had to stand behind people like broken soul, zeldapro, gamer07, and woah with a mop and just clean up after them until someone else came along. This by no means is bashing the staff, obviously, and CK has definitely been a breath of fresh air to the forums.

As far as the social state, I see no problems. Sure the place has died down QUITE a bit, but people do grow up and away. We could garner a new generation of members with ZC, but I don't follow that enough to warrant a reply on it.

I would like to see a few new faces as staff around here, sure. Allegedly, current staff does login at least once every few days, which is sufficient, I believe.

I'm not saying that everything right now is a-okay, but a few minor changes in a couple places would work wonders, I think.

[Beldaran]

It would be cool if regular moderators had the ability to ban people with less than a hundred posts, without having a discussion or anything.

[Prrkitty]

I've been trying very hard to make sure we have different subjects/topics to cuss 'n discuss as I find them. That in turn helps make sure that new ones coming to our community have a reason to stick around and check things out.

I believe our mods/smods are doing a good job. Although I do wish we had easier access to those with the ability to ban.

Ultimately I know that all of this is being discussed and worked out with those higher ups of the board. We all just need to be patient.

[MottZilla]

I don't really think there's much of a problem really. As long as people get along and spam and such is taken care of then the staff isn't much of an issue. If you want activity that's up to any member to bring it to us. If you want more activity you need to post topics about something, which may require doing something to talk about.

[Pineconn]

An interesting activity that has occurred in the past that I've suggested once or twice is the AGN Awards. Most active, most talkative, best grammar, longest poster, favorite perma-banned member, most controversial member, most memorable member, member most likely to go to jail, etc. That would at least add fun to the forums for a little bit.

[biggiy05]

An interesting activity that has occurred in the past that I've suggested once or twice is the AGN Awards. Most active, most talkative, best grammar, longest poster, favorite perma-banned member, most controversial member, most memorable member, member most likely to go to jail, etc. That would at least add fun to the forums for a little bit.

The only problem I see with that is someone getting bent out of shape because they were given the award for being such and such. It could cause some problems and hurt feelings. The other thing is there are some really immature members that would throw a fit because they didn't get an award.

[cyberkitten]

i think i vaguely remember having such awards some time ago. i don't remember if they were "official" or part of the member pages or ??, but i do remember alot of reactions similar to what biggiy was just talkin 'bout

[Dechipher]

Ah...the AGN Superlatives.

I'm not drunk anymore, by the way.

[ShadowTiger]

Was it ever a problem with the Superlatives before? :shrug:

I could handle such a thing, fairly easily, assuming there could be a temporary new Superlatives forum for it. Best way to go about doing it.

EDIT: ... .. ... Okay. ... I really, really need to stop clicking into a topic and wandering away from it for half an hour. People post during that time that I wouldn't be able to see unless I refreshed. .. Boy...


But for what it's worth, I don't really remember seeing any complaints over the Superlatives. I mean I don't have a recollection of any, is all. I can understand how there would be, but anyone who doesn't understand what superlatives are ... well, ... I suppose they *would* act that way, wouldn't they.

[DarkDragon]

If someone wants to start the Superlatives back up, they should go ahead - I'm sure Brian wouldn't mind. There's potential for hurt feelings and drama, but I don't think more so than, say, the current reputation system.

[Prrkitty]

The last round of Superlatives were going on when I joined in 2003. If I remember right Foxy handled the nominations and such.

I agree with Darky... maybe another go around of the Superlatives would be a good thing for the community. :)

[Glenn the Great]

I could be mistaken, but I didn't see anyone complaining about their superlative. The ones that Pineconn gave as examples don't strike me as anything that would seriously offend anyone.

[DarkDragon]

The last Superlatives were run in 2004, and did not include "most likely to go to jail." The results before 2004 seem to have been lost from AGN, but I remember the winner (Goatboy, maybe?) certainly was not upset.

[ShadowTiger]

Well, if anyone wants it, I'd be more than happy to volunteer to host it, assuming the necessary provisions are made. (So nobody else has to do all the work, .. y'know .. :sweat: ) Pure did a great set of Superlatives last year, (Also ran by me.) and it worked out quite well. There was a forum devoted entirely to it. People PM'd me their votes, and I'd collect all of the results of the nominations in an invisible thread in that new forum. Then before the time came to vote, I'd manually make every thread; each thread devoted to a category, with the poll choices being the nominations. Each thread is vote ONLY, so nobody can reply to it. I'm not sure if it'd make any difference whether votes bump a topic or not. I think it's best not to have such a thing enabled though, so the topics wouldn't get all shuffled out of order.

[Beldaran]

I nominate myself for the "Most Apathetic Towards Superlatives" superlative.

[ShadowTiger]

Great - We've got one category so far. Other nominations? :D

[Archibaldo]

No one ever remembers Archie...



Bing back GB.



Also, I think the superlatives would be a great way to promote board activity. I'll volunteer as a helping hand if some one has already called the position of organizer. If not, i'd be happy to set it up. Couldn't be that hard could it?

[phattonez]

^^I've already received enough back lash for my support of GB, it's like beating a dead horse at this point.

Best overall poster.
Nicest poster.
Most common sense.
Smartest.
Most down to earth.
Most likely to post at AGN when he's 70.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. We've had calls for reviving superlatives before, but they always went nowhere. Hopefully we can follow through on this. Hey, even this thread is bringing posts from a plethora of members.

[Modus Ponens]

This is my nomination for Best Overall Poster:

http://i.somethingawful.com/inserts/articlepics/photoshop/11-17-06-movies/Elftor.jpg

[bigjoe]

Hey Tails, you just helped me remember somebody's name! TGF Guy! Now I know who it was I couldn't place in my memory. Thanks!

By the way, this is going downhill. I think I'm going to go back to reading Prrkitty's random news clippings. Hey, I have to get kicks out of something.


His name was Radium! Not Radiant.

I had to laugh. I wonder what happened to that guy. He'd always stop posting for a long time and then post once and then stop again. Looks like he's stopped for good. =(

[The_Amaster]

Most creative.

Best Person With Under 500 posts Who Actually Contributes and Doesn't Just Ask 3 ZC Questions.

I dunno...I'll think of some more later. I just got back from work, and I'm tired.

[Prrkitty]

OK I've been going back thru GD's threads in 2004 to find the results of our last Superlatives and my eyes are crossed now from looking.

Would the results have been noted here in GD or GE?

[DarkDragon]

They were in a separate forum, now closed and hidden. You may be able to view it through your modcp.

[phattonez]

I had to laugh. I wonder what happened to that guy. He'd always stop posting for a long time and then post once and then stop again. Looks like he's stopped for good. =(

He was here a while ago and made a few posts, nothing significant. If you missed a day you wouldn't have seen him. I suppose that's what happens with many old members now.

[Prrkitty]

ROFLOL! Now ya tell me Darky *kiss* I've been looking thru GD and GE trying to find what topics we had for the last Superlatives so we can try to use some of them for this round. Can you find it and post 'em Darky? Please and thank you :)

[DarkDragon]

Studmuffin Award: Sexiest Male
What Did You Say?? Award: Least Understood
Jockstrap Award: Most Athletic
LUBU Award: Most Caring/Loving
Genius Award: Smartest Member
Bancake Award: Most Notorious Banned Member
Convict Award: Most Likely to End Up In Prison
Billionaire Award: Most Likely to Become Rich or Famous
ROTFLMFAO Award: Funniest Member
Secksay Lady Award: Sexiest Female
All Star Award: Most Popular
Welcome to our Forums Award: Best Newbie
Who Gave You The Authority Award: Biggest Rent-A-Mod
Yes Sir/Yes Ma'am Award: Most Respected
Thought-Provoking Award: Most Interesting Posts
Most Humble
Most Normal
Best Signature
Best Avatar
Best Programmer
Best Photoshopper

I was wrong; there was a "most likely to go to jail." Glenn won that year, and doesn't seem terribly bitter about it. ;)

[Prrkitty]

Thank you very very much Darky.

Shadowbabe... there's the list we used the last time. And I offer my services to help you as well. Just let me know hon :)

[bigjoe]

I was nominated for several of the "loser" awards. ;) I guess it was for my long standing rivalry with J.J. Maxx and the Maxxinoids. (I won't go into it...)

Edit:Actually, it was probably because I am the most egotistical, self absorbed,incoherent,perverted, and lame person here.:D

Ironically, J.J. Maxx is one of the members who I would most like to see post again.:(

[Prrkitty]

I agree... I miss Foxy and JJ posting around here.

[bigjoe]

How about a "Who You Would Like To See Posting Again" award? plenty of names to put there...

[Freedom]

Edit:Actually, it was probably because I am the most egotistical, self absorbed,incoherent,perverted, and lame person here.:D



I wasn't aware I'd lost that title, I'm going to have to think about that for a while and decide just how I feel about that.
Right now I kinda feel like I'd just been fired from a job I didn't much care one way or the other about anyway, but the thought of being fired is disheartening somehow.
;)

Anyway Bigjoe, let me be the first to congratulate you on your promotion, you deserve it.
;)

[Matteo]

Yeah JJ and Foxy were great...

Whatever happened to Jemsee too...

[Prrkitty]

Real life had/has Jemsee busy elsewhere. He posts every once in a blue moon. :)

[AlexMax]

I don't really have anything to contribute to the conversation except for the fact that I'm not on the list and after I got permabanned I went on six month apathetic hiatus thereafter, dunno if that counts.

Actually, I lied. AGN's been slowly shriviling up into a shell of its former self simply because there's no more hook. Zelda Classic is old old news, and there's absolutely no reason why anyone would want to host a new project at AGN when they have alternatives such as sourceforge and berlios. It's quite simple, if you want more people to be posting at AGN, you're going to have to find another hook that differeniates it from the thousands of other forums out there. Good luck trying to find a hook that hasn't already been taken and doesn't require the effort that some of AGN's previous failed endeavours (writing for the website, for instance) resulted in. And also realize that a good number of us on the forums are actually quite a bit older than the average population of the forums back in 2001-2002, so what might have worked then might not work now and vice versa.

[Mitsukara]

I stated my opinions already, so I have virtually nothing to reply, except to admit something which is in no way inspiring.

I believe I said it in terms like "if you care enough about AGN, try to make a difference blah blah blah".

The trouble is, while I do like some of you and it's enough to make me randomly post something here... I don't care about AGN. Sorry. I feel bitter and sick of the place, like it's a rotting, festering zombie. I didn't post this with the inspiration to fix AGN, I just posted it to get my opinion off my chest and see what others had to say/if they might do anything productive as a result of it.

Incidently, my caring about AGN is not reduced by me becoming an apathetic person; I still bend over backwards to try to be polite and utterly fear getting insulted and whatnot, in decent places. AGN long ago lost my respect enough for that, though, and I tend to just speak my mind and consequences bedamned here. Fortunately, I've found more than one forum that is much, much nicer than AGN. Sure, there's people that are nice and not so nice, but the funny trick is, if you bother to run a forum well, you can actually maintain order and a healthy environment. I've been lucky to see such fantastic wonders as a firmly set "if you aren't mean, you can talk about whatever you want and it's cool" policy actually working and leading to good conversations, without fights or bullshit drama. I know, it's like, magic or something! Like that magic sticky tape they use in space and on shoes!!!

Old connections, getting to see a few people that I've known for years off and on, and misguided halfass sentimentality- which, as I said, is never fulfilled by actually visiting AGN in any way- are the only reasons I have for coming here anymore. And a lot of those old connections are severed by the great many people that no longer come here. Jemsee and Skatche also go on the list, but I don't feel like editing it yet again.

Again, some of you are great, and some of you I'd rather avoid further entanglement with because it always seems to get nasty for no real reason. Due to that conflict, and the overall lackluster of the situation, I just don't really care for AGN itself. Expect to see me randomly and inconsistantly unless things develop in a more interesting fashion somehow. Sorry :(

Also, while I doubt you intended such in any negative way, BigJoe, I generally prefer not being called Tails. The last several times anyone called me Tails at AGN was specifically at an attempt to insult/goad me (AGN teaches you apathy whether you naturally tend to do it or not, though, I've noticed), although I doubt that was what you had in mind given what I know of you.

Again, sorry for that bit of unspiration there :/

[Dechipher]

I think we all just need to stick around and keep posting. Ultimately it is not ZC that has kept us here; it is each other. We continue to come to this board and post, not to talk about Zelda Classic, but to converse with those familiar avatars and nicknames we've grown up with. We've all grown up in our time at AGN; some younger members are starting to do the same (again, I think Amaster and Pineconn. Both are, I believe, younger members, though by no means have they yet proven themselves to be morons, thus putting them about 98% of their peer group.) AGN is just AGN and I think the best thing to do is keep plugging away. If something new draws new people of value here, great. If not, then not. The best thing we can do is keep giving each other a reason to return.
I'm drunk again, btw.

[Beldaran]

Fuck all of you people, my only goal is to be the last sad motherfucker posting here in like 10 years.

[Trevelyan_06]

Fuck all of you people, my only goal is to be the last sad motherfucker posting here in like 10 years.

By then though, AGN won't be a forum board, it'll be a place where all of our consciousness gathers after being uploaded to the internet just like in the Matrix. Either that, or the LSD and other trace chemical levels in the tap water will get to the point where we think that's what we're doing.

[Lilith]

i have a feeling that agn would smell pretty bad if we William-Gibsoned it.

[Pineconn]

I was wrong; there was a "most likely to go to jail." Glenn won that year, and doesn't seem terribly bitter about it. ;)

Told ya. ;)


We've all grown up in our time at AGN; some younger members are starting to do the same (again, I think Amaster and Pineconn. Both are, I believe, younger members, though by no means have they yet proven themselves to be morons, thus putting them about 98% of their peer group.)

Thanks for that comment. :) I suppose we're younger members; we're both 16 (as a matter of fact, I'm only 2 days older than him). And it is a sad fact about the... quality of most of our peers. I blame it on Britney Spears. :sweat:

[phattonez]

Not all of them are bad. I started here when I was 14 and I don't think I was ever that stupid like most teenagers (although maybe someone can correct me). I just know that AGN does have some pretty cool people despite what some may think.

[Lilith]

It's a lighthearted reply to Trev's reference to the AGN-Matrix. William Gibson wrote the cyberpunk novel "Neuromancer" which the Matrix, among other dystopian sci-fi is basically based on. Chill, and expand your library. :shrug:

[Pineconn]

Ah, I was wondering what you meant by that. ;)

So are the superlatives going to happen this year? :)

[phattonez]

It all depends on if one person wants to take up the cause. But first, we need nominations.

[ShadowTiger]

I already volunteered, but I'd rather see the method down pat first. The "easiest" way to do it is by constructing a forum like This One (http://www.purezc.com/forums/index.php?showforum=119). When that happens, we can easily begin. I mean, surely creating a single new forum isn't so hard. O.o

[Glenn the Great]

I'd actually rather there not be nominations, and that everyone get the opportunity to be voted for. Someone is going to whine in the end about not getting nominated, and the contest as a whole will feel watered down when you only have so many people to be chosen from.

[Beldaran]

Someone is going to whine

Someone whose name starts with "Gle" and ends with "nn the Great"? :D

[phattonez]

In the old system there were I think 5 that you voted between, and there was a general consensus on who those people were. I liked that system. You can't have a perfect system, and it would be very tough for the person who is running the superlatives if they have to keep adding names to the list.

[Glenn the Great]

Someone whose name starts with "Gle" and ends with "nn the Great"? :D

Yeah, I realize that I whine a lot around here. Let's change that to some people, and not just someONE.




Actually Phat, the oldest system done by Brian had no nominations, and everyone could be chosen from. It was also the most successful bout of superlatives.

[ShadowTiger]

Interesting. Elaborate please?

[Glenn the Great]

Well, it was in 2001 I believe. Brian made a list of maybe 20 to 30 awards, and then let people start voting. He gave us either a week or two weeks.

The way people voted was by sending Brian a private message with their vote out beside each award's title. There were no set choices for who to vote for.

At the end of the week, Brian tallied everything up. It was possible for members to tie these superlatives and each win it.

These were very popular at the time, and everyone had them in their signature. I won more awards than anyone else, winning such things as Best Moderator and Best Overall Member. Mottzilla won the original Most Likely to Go to Jail. There were also a lot of Zelda Classic related superlatives in the mix.

[Jigglysaint]

It seems nobody remembers me. Oddly enough, even though I only lurk on occasions, this place is still my home page. You can blame Screwattack for my disappearance.

[Pineconn]

I remember your username for sure (Jigglysaint ≠ Jigglypuff :D), but you were active well before my time (on the forums, that is). But if you want to be remembered more, stick around. :p

@ Glenn: That idea sounds very excellent. If we decide to go with that idea, I personally think a new thread should be created so we can brainstorm superlative titles and not come up with too many/too few.

[cyberkitten]

we did have a forum specifically for the superlatives one year, and it's now a hidden/no posting forum, so i don't think it'd be that big of a deal to create a temporary forum for them. just need to find someone who can do it.

[phattonez]

^^You mean an admin? Well that's where the trouble starts. Maybe the suggestion for more staff isn't so crazy after all.

[DarkDragon]

I'll ask DN next time I see him.

[Mitsukara]

I'm in no position to suggest such things, but I would say CK and Moocow should be admins and Prr and ShadowTiger should be SMods.

Incidentally, people who are absent for especially long periods of time probably shouldn't still hold major staff positions anymore, either.

Just my two cents.

[Glenn the Great]

Having Shadowtiger as a Sr. Mod would be the happiest of all things that could happen to this place right now.

While we are on the subject of Sr. Mods, what do you think it would be like if I were a Sr. Mod again?

[phattonez]

I don't really see a problem with it. I'm sure it's not the answer you were expecting from me, but I don't see you abusing the power.

[DarkDragon]

Please be patient. War Lord is aware of the problem around here, staff-related and otherwise, but has been MIA the past week; nothing can move forward until he returns.

[phattonez]

I was about to say what if goKi came back, but I didn't realize that he's not an admin anymore.

[ShadowTiger]

Thanks CK/DD. :) Greatly appreciated. May as well start a new thread about it though. Could be a lot of deciding in it. Nominations will usually be PM'd. I also keep thinking that it'd be possible to nominate exactly two people for every category. To nominate yourself (Which you can do, apparently.) would give the possibility of failure within the voting poll thread, which would be a great embarrassment, if you're (And let's not take this the wrong way.) vain enough (Like me, I mean.) to nominate yourself for something if nobody else would, just to ensure that you have a chance to win something. Not nominating yourself can save yourself the embarrassment, however smaller, and can also give you a nice little surprise if you are nominated by someone in secret. But this is something to save for that new thread, I suppose.


Having ShadowTiger as a Sr. Mod would be the happiest of all things that could happen to this place right now.

While we are on the subject of Sr. Mods, what do you think it would be like if I were a Sr. Mod again?(I'll say it before anyone else gets to in their own words.) No offense or anything, (Seriously, I like ya's a hella lot, man.) but this whole post made me itch for either a time machine or a forget-it-all. Good god.



...


BTW, DarkDragon 4 Admin. <3 He's ALWAYS Around, and he's intelligent as ... you name it.

[elise]

I full hearted support DarkDragon for Admin great choise ShadowTiger :)

[Prrkitty]

I concur as well... Darky for Admin :)

EDIT: That is if he's agreeable :)

[ZTC]

I'm not surprised that I'm not on the list. eh, whatever
My take on this: People come and go; and they change.
Not profound, but it's true. I still remember after I rejoined a few years ago, the boards were quite active, and reflecting on that, they're still pretty active. At the mention of GB, whatever happened to the Roasts held a number of years ago? or Gannonator for that matter? or an active chatroom? (the list could go on for a bit, but hopefully the point is understood)

[Masamune]

I'd like to see a few more people on my admin campaign. >:O

[Trevelyan_06]

I'm just going to throw out that anyone who wants to run for Admin can hire me as their "political adviser". My job will mostly consist of making up outrageous and easily disproved rumors about those running against you. If you make Admin I'll expect special treatment and continue to be your political adviser. That is, of course, until it looks like your reign as Admin is about to end. I will then jump ship as fast as I can and leave you looking like an idiot.

[Masamune]

You are hired. :o

[ZTC]

Aside from that... ;)
I see that the Superlatives board is up.

[Beldaran]

I see that the Superlatives board is up.

Yes, if you hurry you can still vote for the 2004 superlatives, apparently. :)

[phattonez]

I had already looked and I couldn't find those. But you can make your own thread in there.

[Dechipher]

I don't think my opinion matters anymore than anyone else's, so I'm just going to throw out there that I think that Admins should come from current SMods and SMods should come from current Mods, and those spots filled by available members. The latter two aren't as vital, but I definitely feel admins should come from SMods.

[elise]

I don't think my opinion matters anymore than anyone else's, so I'm just going to throw out there that I think that Admins should come from current SMods and SMods should come from current Mods, and those spots filled by available members. The latter two aren't as vital, but I definitely feel admins should come from SMods.
But what if the current Smods can't do whats necessary to do for the new admin .....like getting the zelda questdatabase running again :shrug:
Wouldn't it be logic then to put someone there that can ;)

[Dechipher]

But what if the current Smods can't do whats necessary to do for the new admin .....like getting the zelda questdatabase running again :shrug:
Wouldn't it be logic then to put someone there that can ;)

Well, yeah, obviously. However, it makes sense to first examine the current Senior Moderators and go from there, something I haven't seen yet in this thread, unless I missed something.

[Pineconn]

I just want to warn AGN to not suddenly promote a ton of people to mod/smod/admin status. Staff should always be a minority, and the infestation of moderators literally killed a board (http://www.zanime.co.sr) that I used to be active in a long time ago.

But I'm glad to see that there are very few if any mods that simply no longer come to AGN. Also, since this is my first time, I'm interested in where the superlatives and their effects will be going.

[phattonez]

Well you could have posted any broken link and proven the same point.

AGN will never have too many moderators, there are only a few people that are active and only those can be mods, the rest will be regular members. It seems like that would work pretty well.

[ShadowTiger]

Hm. I believe I will happily retract my support for DarkDragon for Administrator. I simply do not see any reason to promote him up to it at this point. I think that it would be absolutely ridiculous to continue campaigning for it in any way at this point. :-z





...



Because He already is one (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showgroups.php). :D

Absolutely freaking sweet. 'tis a grand day for AGN. Let us mark it on the calendar or something.



Anyway, headache.

[Pineconn]

*Note, I'm not trying to hold back anyone from being in a higher power. I'm just saying don't go overboard if anything. ;)

Yeah, I noticed DD was promoted to admin. Congrats! Finally, this is one of AGN's better choices in a while since I know he'll do very well.

[Archibaldo]

Okay ST. Get back to getting those Superlatives up and running. Gitti-mao!

[DarkDragon]

Yes, I've agreed to help War Lord fix up AGN and zeldaclassic.com. I haven't said anything because although I was added to the admin user group last week, he hasn't turned on any of my admin tools yet. So all of AGN's problems are not yet my fault ;)

Although it's true that I was not appointed from the senior moderator pool, I hope my work in ZC development has shown me to be trustworthy and dedicated to improving AGN and its community.

In any case, DN has created a Superlatives forum. I believe you wanted to organize them this year, ShadowTiger?

[ShadowTiger]

Ah, so it was DN. Thanks, yes, I've already "begun (http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99178)." Anyone interested in helping out, or just voicing their opinions, (Which we'd all love to do..) it's begun, I guess. No time like the present to start. :)


I'll have to thank the big 'lug when I see him. Kudos again man. :) Best of luck on the Database.

[Prrkitty]

Congrats Darky :) May your job be easy... your time enjoyable and all of us support you as you need us to... <hug>

[elise]

Congrats DarkDragon :D

when you get your admin tools tell us so we can start blaming you :D:D:D
No really I know you do and did alot of good work for the zelda community on AGN and I am very happy that you get the ability to do even more :thumbsup:

If Prrkitty now also say that she is already a Smod then it turns out to be superwednesday ;)

[Prrkitty]

:) Thanks elise but I don't need to be an SMod hon (thank you very much). Our Darky will handle things as we need him to. So I'm quite happy being the Mod I am, of NM and SE, and helping elsewhere as I am needed and can :)

I do appreciate all the love and support from y'all trying to get me into a higher position but I'm quite happy where I am... please and thank you very much.

[Trevelyan_06]

If Prrkitty now also say that she is already a Smod then it turns out to be superwednesday ;)

Prr is secretly a Jedi Master and can use the Jedi Mind trick at will on DarkDragon to make him do her bidding.

Also congratulation DarkDragon. If you need any evil minions let me know.

[erm2003]

I am very glad to see DD on board. We have needed someone with your dedication to ZC. Congrats!