Bioshock demo

[Cloral]

If you've got a 360, you really owe it to yourself to download the Bioshock demo. If you haven't heard, it's a shooter set in the '50s in an underwater city called Rapture, where people have figured out how to alter their DNA to give them magic-like abilities. I'm not entirely sure I'm going to get this, since there are 3 games I'm already planning to get in the next month, but damn they are trying to make this a tough decision for me.

[MottZilla]

Which 3 games are those? I plan to try out the bioshock demo, but I still think the next game I get will be Assassin's Creed.

[Cloral]

Metroid Prime 3
Blue Dragon
Halo 3

When is Assassin's Creed shipping? It wasn't one of the 6 or so games I had my eye on this year, but it looks like it could be interesting. I hope they release a demo for it.

[biggiy05]

This game is making it really hard for me to go buy a 360. I'm ready to just give in and charge it to the credit card.

[DarkDragoonX]

Metroid Prime 3
Blue Dragon
Halo 3

When is Assassin's Creed shipping? It wasn't one of the 6 or so games I had my eye on this year, but it looks like it could be interesting. I hope they release a demo for it.

Halo 3 over Bioshock? Yuck.

Bioshock is one of the trifecta of PC games I've been eagerly anticipating. The other two are S.T.A.L.K.E.R., which ended up being an excellent game, and Hellgate: London, which I have high hopes for. Bioshock, being the spiritual successor to System Shock series, was a game I had pinned down as destined to be one of the best damn games of the year, and after giving the 360 demo a quick test run (why no PC demo yet? Bastards!), that faith seems fully warranted.

[Cloral]

Halo 3 over Bioshock? Yuck.

I've been waiting for Halo 3 for a good long while now, and the multiplayer beta confirmed to me that the online multiplayer is going be very good. I have yet to see any evidence for Bioshock's multiplayer, so it would basically be a singleplayer purchase for me. And I'd much rather play online than off.

I know Halo is one of those franchises people love to hate on, but there's a reason why it has been so successful.

[DarkDragoonX]

Bioshock's multiplayer, so it would basically be a singleplayer purchase for me. And I'd much rather play online than off.

Personally, I find the trend towards "it better have multiplayer or it's not worth it" in gaming rather disheartening. If I were asked to list my favorite ten, or hell, even my favorite fifty games, none of them would be multiplayer titles. There might be a couple that have a multiplayer mode that I never used, but... yeah, I enjoy a good multiplayer game, but all my best gaming experiences have come from single player experiences. This includes the FPS genre as well.



I know Halo is one of those franchises people love to hate on, but there's a reason why it has been so successful.

As for hating on Halo... it's not that Halo is bad, per se, so much as that it's bad compared to anything you can get on a PC. I mean, with Halo 3 you get a single-player mode with story that pales in comparison to games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, and Bioshock, and a multiplayer mode that pales in comparison to, for example UT2k4. Heck, even the original UT has better multiplayer than the Halo series has thus far. Then, UT kicks Halo squarely in the groin in the realm of expandability as well. Halo gives you a multiplayer mode with the same selection of maps that don't change until the developer decides to release a new map pack. With UT, you still get developer map packs, but also the bajillion user-made maps, some of which are just outstanding. You also get new skins and meshes, full-on total conversion mods...the extra value you get from UT dwarfs anything Halo could ever hope to offer. Finally, the nail is driven into the coffin by the sheer awfulness of controller FPS controls compared to the good ol' keyboard and mouse. Halo has always been a good FPS by console standards, but frankly is nothing more than mediocre when compared to a PC FPS.

That's really the secret to the success of Halo... drunken frat boys, console gamers without PCs, people who are too dumb to use their computer properly (and that consists of 90% of the population.. the amount of gamers who don't know how to do anything more complicated then install software is quite disheartening), all flock to Halo, which despite providing a mediocre FPS experience, succeeds at providing an easily accessible FPS experience. No hunting for servers! No searching for patches! No worrying about system specs! This is the key to Halo's success, and will ensure the continued success of the franchise for some time.

[Darth Marsden]

You've just summed up everything I think about console vs PC FPS games. Better controls, more customability, prettier graphics, more skilled players. And mods. Dear god, the mods...

[ShadowTiger]

I concur with the previous two posts/posters with extraordinary force. There's a version of Deus Ex (The GOTY Edition.) which features multiplayer. I tell ya... as much as I love Deus Ex, (And I loooooove Deus Ex. @ @.) I have never nor would never bother to touch it. Deus Ex alone was such a wonderful experience that I was still sighing satisfactorily as I'd finished it, then decided to go back for more immediately thereafter. Same with System Shock 2. Same with the Ultima Underworld series. (Also by Warren Spector. ;-p )

The only reason I enjoy Halo 2 is due to the fact that we don't have any PC's in the QC Anime Club to play anything else, and the XBoxes are relatively smaller than PC's and easily able to be set up. Doesn't mean the games automatically compare to PC games and their ease of use.

[Grasshopper]

As for hating on Halo... it's not that Halo is bad, per se, so much as that it's bad compared to anything you can get on a PC. I mean, with Halo 3 you get a single-player mode with story that pales in comparison to games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, and Bioshock, and a multiplayer mode that pales in comparison to, for example UT2k4. Heck, even the original UT has better multiplayer than the Halo series has thus far. Then, UT kicks Halo squarely in the groin in the realm of expandability as well. Halo gives you a multiplayer mode with the same selection of maps that don't change until the developer decides to release a new map pack. With UT, you still get developer map packs, but also the bajillion user-made maps, some of which are just outstanding. You also get new skins and meshes, full-on total conversion mods...the extra value you get from UT dwarfs anything Halo could ever hope to offer. Finally, the nail is driven into the coffin by the sheer awfulness of controller FPS controls compared to the good ol' keyboard and mouse. Halo has always been a good FPS by console standards, but frankly is nothing more than mediocre when compared to a PC FPS.I wouldn't say it's mediocre. Maybe compared to, what, Unreal Tournament, Gears of War, Fear? These are high profile games. And even then I wouldnt' say its mediocre. There are lots of BAD FPS games out on the PC. I like UT so much because the game is choked full of content. I can't get that with other games, but it also doesn't have that cool story and atmosphere that STALKER or Call of Cthulhu has. If some PC games didn't offer sandbox modes, such as Rollercoaster Tycoon3, or map editors, I would not have played them that long. I think Halo is the same way. If it didn't have the huge multiplayer community, it wouldn't be so big either. I don't really like Halo myself either, but if I'm playing multiplayer with friends, I do have a good time. But in defense of Halo, you can't really expect any console game to have extensive mod capabilities. Doom had that, and we're talking 1993 people. Its just that we're comparing apples and oranges. Yeah, they're both fruit, but each system has its strengths and weakness. And while I enjoy WASD far more than the dual-analog controller for FPS games, not everyone does. So you can't really justify PC FPS as being superior to console FPS just because you like the keyboard and mouse better. It gives me more contol, which is why I like it, but truthfully, there are some people out there who can use that controller with deadly accuracy.

And also, I wouldn't start saying Deus Ex and System Shock are the be all end all of excellent PC shooter. I personally don't like them.


That's really the secret to the success of Halo... drunken frat boysAnd that comment reminds me of this strip. :D
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20041108h.jpg

But back to Bioshock, I'm kind of saddened that there isn't a PC demo out yet. I don't own a 360. But I'm happy knowing that it will be out before the end of this month. But Bioshock is out on Tuesday, so I could just play that. And after looking at the box, I can't help but want it.

[Cloral]

You've just summed up everything I think about console vs PC FPS games. Better controls, more customability, prettier graphics, more skilled players. And mods. Dear god, the mods...

That's nice and all, except that my PC is old and can't even begin to play anything remotely recent. And the truth of the matter is, I work all day on a PC and the last thing I want to do at home is sit in front of my PC and play games.

And DD, I'm not saying that a lack of online multiplayer makes a game worthless. Far from that. For instance, I recently decided to play through MP again out of lack of anything new to play. While the controls annoyed me for the first hour, after I got used to them again I really got into the game again and am having a lot of fun with it right now. And that game has no multiplayer component at all. But with the upcoming slate of games, I want at least one with a good solid multiplayer component, as playing on Live is a lot of fun. And for those of you who disagree with me, well, that's just your opinion and not mine.

Update:
I realized that since this is a 2K title, I could order it through the company store. At a savings of about $20 off of retail, this became a really easy decision to make. I don't know when it will come, but I'm hoping it gets here before I go to Tahoe in a week. After reading some lackluster reviews of Blue Dragon, I'm thinking this may simply replace it.

[Matteo]

I played the Bioshock Demo for a little while, and I had to turn it off because it was scaring me too much!

It does look like a great game, but I have no stomach for these kinds of games...

[Beldaran]

That's nice and all, except that my PC is old and can't even begin to play anything remotely recent.

I find it odd that you are a professional game programmer, but your PC is a piece of shit.

[Cloral]

Well, I don't make PC games. And like I said, I get enough of the computer at work, so I generally don't like using one at home. I'd rather do something else.

[MottZilla]

And even if he were a professional PC game programmer, he doesn't need the ubber l337 PC at home, they'd have those at work. I can understand why you don't wanna sit at a PC and play games in your free time. You'd go crazy always sitting at a PC.

[Beldaran]

I would think if you were a programmer you'd be fucking obsessed with your computer. :)

If I didn't enjoy playing guitar so much, I could literally work/play on a computer 16 hours a day and never feel bad. I love computers.

[Darth Marsden]

Get a room, you sick fuck. :p

What exactly is it you do, Cloral? I never really found out and I'd love to know.

[biggiy05]

Get a room, you sick fuck. :p

What exactly is it you do, Cloral? I never really found out and I'd love to know.

He works for the Cuban Government as a programmer. His salary consists of peanuts, coconuts and one Hershey bar a week.

I'm gonna go buy a 360 when I have the money together. There are just too many games out there that I wanna play.

[Cloral]

Get a room, you sick fuck. :p

What exactly is it you do, Cloral? I never really found out and I'd love to know.

I'm a programmer at 2K Sports. I work on the MLB 2K series. Unfortunately I can't talk about what areas of the game I am currently working on.

[AlexMax]

As for hating on Halo... it's not that Halo is bad, per se, so much as that it's bad compared to anything you can get on a PC. I mean, with Halo 3 you get a single-player mode with story that pales in comparison to games like System Shock 2, Deus Ex, and Bioshock

Bioshock and Deus Ex are both multiplatform releases. Halo's story is probably on par with Half Life's as far as I'm concerned.


and a multiplayer mode that pales in comparison to, for example UT2k4. Heck, even the original UT has better multiplayer than the Halo series has thus far. Then, UT kicks Halo squarely in the groin in the realm of expandability as well.

The traditional deathmatch game and Halo are two fundimentally different types of multiplayer. Halo's multiplayer fits more into the realm of Counterstrike and Call of Duty 2, where you move slowly and a combination of aim and teamwork is a lot more important than anything else, while traditional deathmatch trades greater movement potential for teamwork (It's much easier to be a lone gunman). For me, they are for two different kinds of moods, and I like Halo 2 about as much as Quake 3 CPMA, just for different reasons.

Unreal Tournament's strategy for multiplayer is to throw tons of shit at a wall and see if some of it sticks. It has a case of not being able to find its identity. It's not fast enough to be a good PC shooter, it's not slow enough to be a good tactical shooter, and there are way too many guns. It's no wonder that UT eventually degrades into 90% instagib CTF servers, because by removing some of the complexity, the game is actually sort of fun. And for all of the extra maps and mods that are included, only a very select few of them actually get any amount of play.


Halo gives you a multiplayer mode with the same selection of maps that don't change until the developer decides to release a new map pack. With UT, you still get developer map packs, but also the bajillion user-made maps, some of which are just outstanding. You also get new skins and meshes, full-on total conversion mods...the extra value you get from UT dwarfs anything Halo could ever hope to offer.

That's not a knock against Halo, that's a knock against console gaming in general. UT for Dreamcast/PS2 and Unreal Championship for Xbox had the exact same problem, and although the PS3 version of UT3 will feature mod support, one has to question how much it will catch on. Both Halo and Halo 2 have PC releases with custom map support (though the community isn't as large, mainly due to the ports being lazy), and there is tons of custom modification interest in both games, as shown by sites such as Halomods (http://www.halomods.com/). Not only that but Halo 2 also had a metric fuckton of custom gametype options, essentially allowing users to create their own gametypes, and Halo 3 will feature a "Create a Level" mode, where you will be able to take an existing level, rearrange anything you want to on it (aside from the actual architecture, but I'm assuming you can just block off certian sections of map with a big prop), and essentially create your own fun.

And like I mentioned earlier, just because UT ships with 'more' doesn't make it better. Halo has an amazing track record of having great maps, there are the obvious popular maps (Blood Gulch, Lockout), but nearly all of the maps get a decent amount of play, and people aren't afraid to pick them. On the other hand, trying to get UT players to play outside of their comfort zone is an exercize in pulling teeth. I'd rather have 10-15 solid maps than 100 mixed bag maps with maybe 5 good ones in the bunch.


Finally, the nail is driven into the coffin by the sheer awfulness of controller FPS controls compared to the good ol' keyboard and mouse. Halo has always been a good FPS by console standards, but frankly is nothing more than mediocre when compared to a PC FPS.

Another knock against console games in general. Again, both Halo's have PC ports.


That's really the secret to the success of Halo... drunken frat boys, console gamers without PCs, people who are too dumb to use their computer properly (and that consists of 90% of the population.. the amount of gamers who don't know how to do anything more complicated then install software is quite disheartening), all flock to Halo, which despite providing a mediocre FPS experience, succeeds at providing an easily accessible FPS experience. No hunting for servers! No searching for patches! No worrying about system specs! This is the key to Halo's success, and will ensure the continued success of the franchise for some time.

Sounds like a sound game design to me. Super Smash Bros follows the same formula, being accessable and deep at the same time. It sounds to me like you just have sour grapes about X game being more popular than your favorite. (I should know, the community for CPMA is tiny, even compared to UT2k4's stagnant community) I guarentee you that if you played some Halo 2 with a group of friends who were halfway decent at the game, you would have a blast.

[DarkDragoonX]

Halo's story is probably on par with Half Life's as far as I'm concerned.

I nearly choked to death after reading that.


The traditional deathmatch game and Halo are two fundimentally different types of multiplayer. Halo's multiplayer fits more into the realm of Counterstrike and Call of Duty 2, where you move slowly and a combination of aim and teamwork is a lot more important than anything else, while traditional deathmatch trades greater movement potential for teamwork (It's much easier to be a lone gunman). For me, they are for two different kinds of moods, and I like Halo 2 about as much as Quake 3 CPMA, just for different reasons.

I wouldn't call Halo "tactical," per se. Halo's gameplay is a sort of mutant mix between traditional deathmatch and tactical shooters, without actually being either.


Unreal Tournament's strategy for multiplayer is to throw tons of shit at a wall and see if some of it sticks. It has a case of not being able to find its identity. It's not fast enough to be a good PC shooter,

That's news to me.


it's not slow enough to be a good tactical shooter,

It was never meant to be.


and there are way too many guns.

That is very nearly the silliest thing I've ever heard. There aren't that many guns. Nine basic weapons (lightning gun and sniper rifle share the same slot), and two one-shot super weapons that share a tenth slot. I don't see how that's "too many," particularly in light of the fact that UT has some of the best weapon design to grace the FPS scene. The alternate fire modes are also wildly different from the primary fire, with many interesting effects. The amazing depth and complexity in making full use of your arsenal, combined with the acrobatics players can perform (shield gun jumps, double jumps, wall jumps, etc) make UT one of the most deep, complex deathmatch experiences available.


It's no wonder that UT eventually degrades into 90% instagib CTF servers, because by removing some of the complexity, the game is actually sort of fun. And for all of the extra maps and mods that are included, only a very select few of them actually get any amount of play.

Sooo... basically, UT isn't fun because people are too stupid to figure out ten weapons and a few acrobatic manuevers. My faith in humanity's general intelligence level just took another hit. As for mods, well, I've never had any problems finding people to play my favorite mods.


That's not a knock against Halo, that's a knock against console gaming in general. UT for Dreamcast/PS2 and Unreal Championship for Xbox had the exact same problem, and although the PS3 version of UT3 will feature mod support, one has to question how much it will catch on. Both Halo and Halo 2 have PC releases with custom map support (though the community isn't as large, mainly due to the ports being lazy), and there is tons of custom modification interest in both games, as shown by sites such as Halomods (http://www.halomods.com/).

This is a valid point. Conceded.


Not only that but Halo 2 also had a metric fuckton of custom gametype options, essentially allowing users to create their own gametypes, and Halo 3 will feature a "Create a Level" mode, where you will be able to take an existing level, rearrange anything you want to on it (aside from the actual architecture, but I'm assuming you can just block off certian sections of map with a big prop), and essentially create your own fun.

Gametype options are a nice touch, admittedly, but the create a level thing sounds more gimmicky then anything else.


And like I mentioned earlier, just because UT ships with 'more' doesn't make it better. Halo has an amazing track record of having great maps, there are the obvious popular maps (Blood Gulch, Lockout), but nearly all of the maps get a decent amount of play, and people aren't afraid to pick them. On the other hand, trying to get UT players to play outside of their comfort zone is an exercize in pulling teeth. I'd rather have 10-15 solid maps than 100 mixed bag maps with maybe 5 good ones in the bunch.

I dunno, all of the stock UT maps are quite good, and although user made maps can be iffy, there are many astounding user maps out there. I've never had any problem playing on custom maps either, so I don't see where this complaint comes from.




Not really, I just think it's overrated. I feel the same way whenever somebody gushes on and on about FFVII being the best RPG ever. It really isn't, and Halo isn't as amazing as people claim it is, either.

[QUOTE]I guarentee you that if you played some Halo 2 with a group of friends who were halfway decent at the game, you would have a blast.

I have. Hell, I have several friends who are far better than me at it. I just don't like it. I didn't like it the first time, I didn't like the sequel, and the third game probably won't do much for me, either. It's not fast-paced enough, it lacks a decent arsenal, and most imporantly, it lacks the intangible "fun" quality that makes me want to keep playing a given game.

Again, though, I never said Halo was god-awful, I said it was a good console game. It's popularity isn't all for nothing. It just doesn't stand up to the good PC shooters. I will, however, give Halo the nod on vehicular combat. No other shooter does vehicles quite as well as Halo does.

[AlexMax]

I nearly choked to death after reading that.

Do you really even need a blow by blow? This is the same company that did Marathon and Myth, Bungie knows how to make a story-rich game, and there are tons of little details that are hard to catch unless you're paying attention.


I wouldn't call Halo "tactical," per se. Halo's gameplay is a sort of mutant mix between traditional deathmatch and tactical shooters, without actually being either.

You're probably right, let's call it the most accessable tactical shooter ever. It has slow movement, guns that somewhat resemble real world ones and other tactical bits like CQC and offhand grenades, while at the same time it has neat movement tricks, gimmicky things like swords, and it's not quite one hit kill (pretty close though). All in all, I'm a fan of it.


That is very nearly the silliest thing I've ever heard. There aren't that many guns. Nine basic weapons (lightning gun and sniper rifle share the same slot), and two one-shot super weapons that share a tenth slot. I don't see how that's "too many," particularly in light of the fact that UT has some of the best weapon design to grace the FPS scene. The alternate fire modes are also wildly different from the primary fire, with many interesting effects. The amazing depth and complexity in making full use of your arsenal, combined with the acrobatics players can perform (shield gun jumps, double jumps, wall jumps, etc) make UT one of the most deep, complex deathmatch experiences available.

More isn't necissarily better. Quake 3 has purpose built guns that are easy to understand and don't have a gimmicky secondary fire. Less guns, but you can do more with them. And trying to even compare UT to something like Q3A in terms of movement is like a blind man trying to describe the sun, it's impossible. Movement-wise, you will never see something like this in UT (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4242993143278425715), or this (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7435282830710650958).


Gametype options are a nice touch, admittedly, but the create a level thing sounds more gimmicky then anything else.

Nope, not a gimmick. (http://www.garrysmod.com/)


I dunno, all of the stock UT maps are quite good, and although user made maps can be iffy, there are many astounding user maps out there. I've never had any problem playing on custom maps either, so I don't see where this complaint comes from.

Honestly, how many of the vanilla UT2k4 maps see regular play? And I'm talking about all of them in all game modes. Usually you see the community settle on a select few maps out of a select few game modes, because the others aren't really worth playing. Halo 2, for having a small map pool, has proportionally many more high quality maps that people are willing to play than most other games. Most people can name a good three quarters of the Halo map pool off of the top of their head as maps they like to play, since there are so many good ones. Can you do the same with UT? What about Quake 3? Point being is that I don't want to install six gigs and hundreds of maps, only to end up playing maybe a small handfull of them or being forced to download six more gigs of maps because the community treats maps more of a disposable commodity.

[Dark Nation]

http://games.slashdot.org/games/07/08/24/213256.shtml

I know the article says it's not really a rootkit, but a hard to delete directory, but still...