Hey Testers

[Freedom]

I'm seeing a lot of bugs being reported in earlier builds, shouldn't we be checking the latest (492 as of today) for bugs?
Shouldn't we be looking at where we are instead of where we been? ;)
I think if a bug is caught in version 478 it should be checked in 492 before you even report it, otherwise you might just be spinning your wheels.
I think we're getting close. ;)

[SpykStorm]

I think were getting close to!:)
Doesnt NeoFirst have to completed before 2.5s final release?

[Freedom]

I sure hope not, it doesn't even look close to me.

[Gleeok]

I think alot of people are too busy playing lost isle and origin to test right now. And Neofirst? That probably needs to get kicked to the curb, unless you wan't to wait another year for something stable.


I'm seeing a lot of bugs being reported in earlier builds, shouldn't we be checking the latest (492 as of today) for bugs?

We'll i'm using 492, but the problem is i've been doing tileset work for awhile, thus not exploring the new stuff.

[ShadowTiger]

If you ask me, I think NeoFirst has ballooned up to just another quest, with all the additions placed on it. The additions and new plot and everything is/are cool and all, but ... it's a quest. You can just as easily make an exhibition quest (Like it was supposed to be...) on your own, assuming you know what to do. If enough people get together and pool their knowledge of ZC, ... well, ... that's practically too trivial to even complete the thought. Documentation should come first, and if done right, a quest like NeoFirst doesn't even need to exist, as the casual newcomer could use the documentation to do it for him/herself without needing to reference NeoFirst. (The tutorials and documentation could have nicely detailed screenshots.)


In the meantime, I'd honestly love to pin this. If you think it's not cluttered up there in terms of pinned threads, ... end of sentence. :)

[DarkDragon]

Yup, I'm totally guilty of playing LI the last few days. Sorry :)

ShadowTiger, you're a mod in here, just go ahead and pin it next time. If I don't like it I'll just unpin it and ban you ;)

[_L_]

NeoFirst has, in my opinion, elevated from just "Demo Quest 2" to something much more important: a complete, full (but concise) plot-driven (but not plot-dominant) quest that is distributed with every copy of ZC. An all-new, never-before-seen, 21st century First Quest.

Zelda Classic, despite its numerous revisions, is still generally perceived as just a NES Zelda player and editor, capable mostly of First Quest remixes. The inclusion of NeoFirst will raise ZC to the statuas of a fangame in its own right.

[Gleeok]

Yup, I'm totally guilty of playing LI the last few days. Sorry :)

Good job guys. Release LI before 2.5 is done and look what happens. Haha..OK, so i've been playing LI too. Anyone not playing that's probably got their hands on Origin. What can you do?


Yes, i'm sure Neofirst is gonna kick some serious ass when it's finished, question is how long till it's done? Heh, you probably got enough scripts in there to be able to change the name of it to "The Bible part 2".


But I agree with Freedom, We need people testing the new builds!

[koopa]

I got someone only the other day on Pure asking me for LI's password so he could take a look at how quests are made ... nice try, newbie. But I told him he should take a look at Neofirst, I think what makes it more than just another quest is the fact that it's unpassworded so you can look "behind the scenes" as well.

[Gleeok]

Hey testers. Has anybody been messing with the enemy editor? And I don't mean adding some HP here, or raising weapon damage there. I mean creating enemies the world of Zelda has never seen before.

It's been a complete nightmare for me. Nothing works the way _L_ says it's supposed to,(slightly exagerated) and if you've read the enemy misc explained thread, then you know that their is many questions without answers. At least for me.

Just wondering if anybody has been testing this.

[Freedom]

Hey testers. Has anybody been messing with the enemy editor? And I don't mean adding some HP here, or raising weapon damage there. I mean creating enemies the world of Zelda has never seen before.

It's been a complete nightmare for me. Nothing works the way _L_ says it's supposed to,(slightly exagerated) and if you've read the enemy misc explained thread, then you know that their is many questions without answers. At least for me.

Just wondering if anybody has been testing this.

Just keep reporting it as bugs, otherwise we might be living with it. ;)
When I ask the question about shield/shieldless darknuts and nobody responded I figured nobody knew and it wasn't being used and tested.

[C-Dawg]

As of August 5, 2007, there are like three whole pages of bug reports awaiting fixes.

Daaaaamn guys. The bugs are winning!

[Nicholas Steel]

dont forget the quarentined bugs =)

[Gleeok]

As of August 5, 2007, there are like three whole pages of bug reports awaiting fixes.

Daaaaamn guys. The bugs are winning!


Shit, I had to go all the way to page 5 or 6 so I wouldn't post a duplicate bug a day or two ago.

The good news though is that it's getting more stable to build on. I don't have to worry as much about things like "oh shit, I cant use this or that because it will crash or get corrupted." The main annoyance for me is the enemy editor bugs right now. I have to leave screens empty and fill them in later with the enemies I want.

Alot of annoyance bugs in general still remain though....

[Gleeok]

Well now it's August 9 and it's been like a graveyard for a week. So, does this mean b18 is soon coming?

[Nicholas Steel]

no, it means darkdragon left on a trip :) i think were aiming at getting all current bugs worked out before a beta 18, and as noted, there are still several pages of bugs.

[Gleeok]

Hey guys, gotta few questions. Not sure if some of them are bugs or not:

Enemies-> permanent secrects. Never used this before, but it's not doing anything. How's it work?

Room state carry over. Can these be used without timed warp?

And you can combo cycle on layers, right?

Oops, I just figuered the next 2 out that I was gonna type...all for now.

Wait, wasn't there new string features? Like the ability to put a string on any screen without a "guy". I can't find it. I'm trying to get around the multiple Dmaps being used for "talking bosses".

[Freedom]

Room state carry over. Can these be used without timed warp?

You fill in the map and screen number and when you trigger secrets it also triggers in the other room, keep in mind dungeon dmap and room types are still temp secrets so if you use it to trigger one of those types it won't work.
Timed warp has nothing to do with it.



And you can combo cycle on layers, right?
yea, if the combo cycling on layer rule is checked, remember though that damage combos still have to be on layer 0

[C-Dawg]

Room State Carryover in more detail:

Each screen keeps track of whether secrets have been triggered there or not. Normally, the only way to set triggers on a screen is to activate a secret trigger on that screen, right? Well, with Room State Carryovers, one room's triggered-or-not status will carry-over to a second room. So, say you have a switch (trigger->permanent) at Map 0, Screen 00. On that screen, say you set your Room State Carryover to Map 1, Screen 11. Now, activating the switch on Map 0, Screen 00, will cause secrets to trigger automatically on Map 1, Screen 11. Neat, huh?

One snag. As far as I can tell, Carryovers only work if the original flag is permanent. In other words, temporary secrets don't stay set because they go away when you leave the screen and return. So you have to use permanent->trigger combos. Or, if you want enemies->secret flag to trigger secrets and activate the Carryover, you need to also check enemies->permanent secret. Get the synergy between the two?

This is awesome for custom bosses, making setup a snap (after you've scripted it). In your dungeon, set up the usual boss room with pit warps taking the player to an identical screen where the boss lives. Plaster the pit warps with secret flags so that, when secrets are triggered, the pits go away. On the screen with the boss, ensure that killing the boss activates permanent secrets somehow (I use enemies->Permanent secrets) and warps you back to the first room. Then set the Room State Carryover in the boss room so that the first room follows the boss. Fun! Much faster than using Boss Flags and Trigger enemies.

Research left to be done: At some point, someone over at PureZC claimed that you could "toggle" Room State Carryovers, making Crystal Switches ala LttP totally easy to do. I've never been able to do this, and whoever it is has never offered a detailed explaination for how he pulls this off. In my experience, once you set permanent secrets, the Carryover triggers are all set forever, and can't be undone by any combo or flag.

[Gleeok]

Sweet, thanks guys.

The permanent enemies->secret thing is making me mad though. I had gone as far as setting the dungeon boss flag on the room. And that didn't work! It must be some conflift with the "enemies always return" flag. Hooray for no documentation!!! Yay.
What the hell, i'll just post it as a bug.

[Freedom]

THat has everybody confused, and Jman came back and explained what it did and now I forget again.
It's not for how you are trying to use it.
I'm thinking it might have had something to do with singular flags, but I just can't remember for sure.

[Gleeok]

Ok, so for example, In a dungeon; to set flag 16, I would have to use a combo set to trigger(permanent) for secret combos 0-16, and set screen data to enemy->secrets and permanent enemy->secrets. Right?
So if this doesn't work there's something wrong with a bug elsewhere I guess...

EDIT: Wait, that makes no sense....what the hell am I talking about.

[Freedom]

In a dungeon type dmap there are NO permanent secrets period.
You can set the room to "treat as cave" to get permanent secrets, but then you lose your doors.
That permanent enemy > secrets was intended for something else all together.

I tried to use it like that too and reported it as a bug, and Jman explained it was meant for something else, then a few months later *b* did the same thing and it was discussed again.
I just don't remember now what it was for, but you can probably find it going back through the bug threads.

[Gleeok]

Ahh, yes. A searching I will go then. I guess I edited that too late, It's a little confusing though.
Basically the enemies always return and dungeon boss flag weren't working out, which led to me messing with the permanent enemies->secrets thing.
So...one more time;
Enemies on the rooms with the "dungeon boss" flag are never supposed to return once they are dead, correct.

[Freedom]

Enemies on the rooms with the "dungeon boss" flag are never supposed to return once they are dead, correct.

That might be dependent on the "must kill all bosses" rule, I'm not sure.

[Gleeok]

Alright, anyone know how the rooms stay dark when no candle flame...or whatever the rule is called works? The room lights up when you use the flame once, but then if you use it again before the screen goes dark the second flame won't keep the room lit even though it's on the screen while the room goes back to darkness...?

[Freedom]

zcamazing,
I sure wish you guys would give these inconsistency reports a break so we could get a stable version.
They can't wait until 2.5?
they've been there since day one.
You or AmazingAmpharos made a post the other day climbing all over the devs for 5 pages of bugs and where were they and why weren't they fixing them.
Well, they have lives, and I think they've been doing a hell of a job, but these inconsistencies are becoming BS, and if it continues then I'm going to start fighting that the devs return to adding features, because what the hell, we aren't going to get a stable release anyway.
How's that sound?

[Gleeok]

Yes, I do agree. It's a touchy subject though, and I believe i've already self-destructed in a bug post for NES scrolling a while back in regards to this. The thing is, when you go through an NES ROM with the goal of ONLY finding inconsistencies to ZC, then you're going to find them without much trouble. I'm ceartian there is still a bunch of them left. I know of a few, but I will not post them untill new features are being added once again. I WILL do so then, but not while there are problems like subscreen corruption, and gameplay affecting bugs that linger. I feel your pain Freedom. Let's hear some other opinions though.

[Petoe]

Indeed, Freedom. Enough of the damned inconsistency reports! :(
There are bigger issues to keep an eye out for.

[Freedom]

The problem is, when they fix an "inconsistency" then they break all the old quests, so then they have to go back and account for that....
Another endless cycle.
We need a stable version so the community can start functioning again.

[DarkDragon]

Whenever I fix an inconsistency I try to add a quest rule (or similar measure) to preserve old quests, though of course I make mistakes.

[ShadowMancer]

Just my opinion on the inconsistency thing but, if you want true NES play get a NES (or a ROM) if you want true coolness get ZC :D
Honstely I aggree with freedom if we don't get major game ruining bugs fixed noone will want to play ZC either as a NES clone or a unique creation in and of itself.

[Russ]

I agree with freedom. The stupid inconsistency reports can wait untill 2.5 is released. If nobody has even noticed them untill now, how important can they be?

[DarkDragon]

The problem is, NES consistency was PM's stated goal for the project, from which I do not have the moral authority to deviate. Other projects have tried to be similar to ZC but from a different direction, such as Open Zelda, but unfortunately most of these projects lag behind ZC's capabilities.

Of course if a bug's not reported, I won't fix it, and there comes a point where more accurate emulation is not reasonable given computer hardware and Allegro limitations (see the reports for Heart Beep/Midi Interaction, B Key Doesn't Cancel Registration, etc).

[ShadowTiger]

True. Really, at the very least, (As it's been said quite clearly within the last few posts before...) the inconsistencies can wait until it's stable, so people who don't care about the inconsistencies can work in a stable version while those pulling out their hair for perfections' sake can frolic in a similarly stable version while they wait for their own little fixes.

[zcAmazing]

As seen in Catergorized Bug List thread:

INCONSISTENCIES: Graphics or behavior that is based on the original Legend of Zelda (LoZ) or another Zelda game, but isn't completely authentic. Inconsistencies with LoZ should be considered a high priority.

Developers, edit this. Freedom was right. They became low priority for in the alphas. Please ignore inconsistencys in the first 5 pages. Get to beta 18 first or to release candidates by fixing all but inconsistencys in these 5 pages now.

[Freedom]

The problem is, NES consistency was PM's stated goal for the project, from which I do not have the moral authority to deviate. Other projects have tried to be similar to ZC but from a different direction, such as Open Zelda, but unfortunately most of these projects lag behind ZC's capabilities.

Of course if a bug's not reported, I won't fix it, and there comes a point where more accurate emulation is not reasonable given computer hardware and Allegro limitations (see the reports for Heart Beep/Midi Interaction, B Key Doesn't Cancel Registration, etc).

I guess I can understand that well enough, but it seems they have just taken the place of features being added, and we are still no closer to seeing a stable release than before.
Whatever. :shrug:

Kind of like when you get a tax break from the government, they give you 10% off on your Federal tax and jack your state tax up 22% to make up for it.

[Nicholas Steel]

Freedom, you and the dev's have different idea's on stability... as pointed out, fixing inconsistency issues increases the engines ability to replicate the original games behavior.

the primary goal that PM left the dev's with, (yes i've been aware of this goal for ages now) means that a stable build MUST replicate the games original behavior, otherwise i would agree with you fully.

if i didnt know this goal then i would never have helped with the reporting of a few inconsistency issues that were reported before.

[Freedom]

Franpa,
163, 183/84, 2.10 were all released as "stable" without these consistency issues that are being brought up now, why is it different now?
Why is it that something always has to get in the way of just releasing a stable version?
Ok... back in to retirement for me and I'll check back again in a few months.

[DarkDragon]

For the older builds, I don't know what to say, other than that those issues were overlooked then, and are being reported now (though FCF fixed quite a few of the inconsistencies that were brought up during his time).

Your definition of "stable" conflicts with PM's, I guess. Like I said, there's nothing at all I can do, as the instructions passed down from previous developers on this point have been very clear. The people to talk to would be DN or PM himself, though tracking down the latter could be difficult.

[Freedom]

There's no point in me bugging anyone about it, when the inconsistencies are all worked out to everyones satisfaction and the focus then is the truly going to be on fine tuning it into a stable release then someone can email me or contact me on Elise's board, and I'll be glad to back and help wherever I can.
I don't want to get into that whole month after month thing like happened last year again, and I don't want to get everyone bitching and raising hell at one another again.
If I run across any bugs in the mean time I'll stop by and report them.

[Nicholas Steel]

Franpa,
163, 183/84, 2.10 were all released as "stable" without these consistency issues that are being brought up now, why is it different now?
Why is it that something always has to get in the way of just releasing a stable version?
Ok... back in to retirement for me and I'll check back again in a few months.

i wasn't around when they where released, but i hazard a guess at no one back then caring about it? (well, except the developers) the developers fixed any inconsistency that was reported, but perhaps the community never bothered checking for them back then?

[Freedom]

While we are talking about inconsistencies, here's one.
These flags are now checked in my quest in ALL my dmaps.
Every time I make a new dmap I have to go in and uncheck them.

X Use caves Instead of item cellars
X Allow 3 stait warp
X allow whistle whirlwinds
X special rooms and guys are in caves only
X View overworld map

Since there are no "cave" dmaps anymore then how do we interpret "special rooms and guys are in caves only"?
How about "Use caves Instead of item cellars"?
I thought "Caves" no longer existed and are now "interior rooms"

If cave dmaps are going to be called "interior" now, after what... 7 years of being cave, then shouldn't they be called interior rooms instead of cave?
;)

[DarkDragon]

If you're editing an older quest, those flags are checked for compatibility. New quests based off of the new template should have most of those flags unchecked (except 3 stair warp and view map, I believe).

[Freedom]

It's the quest I've been bringing up right along with the betas. ;)
It's just one of those things that the correction of inconsistencies screwed up. ;)

EDIT;
Here it is, remember this?
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98155

One of those flag stops message strings from showing up.

[DarkDragon]

Right. If you start a brand-new quest (File->New) the dmaps will have the right flags.

The other flags are turned on by default, for dmaps with level 0 in quests created pre-b18 builds, because they have to be to avoid breaking 2.10 quests.

Though the intervening betas are not specifically supported, if you think the cut-off point where the flags should be unchecked instead of checked by default is not b18 builds, but a different beta, please do investigate, since such a thing is easy enough to fix. Note that it's too late to fix the flags in your quest, unfortunately, as you've saved it in a recent beta.

[Freedom]

I guess I'm just screwed then, because my tileset is now basically a 2.11b10b tileset because I moved it up to that when I thought a stable version was coming, and since then I've added tons of tiles and cycling combos.
SO.....
Once this quest is done, providing there is ever a stable release to finish it in, then I will have to build a new tileset.
Such is life, I can live with that.
BUT I still go back to what I said above, if inconsistencies are going to continue to dominate the day, then this quest and tileset will probably end up further screwed up, right?
So we are back to where we were before suggestions got cut off and additions were stopped, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So I don't know what else to do at this point but to just sit it out and wait, because I'd really hate to see happen to this quest what happened to my Robinhood quest.

DarkDragon, you're doing an awesome job of killing those bugs, but I think what happened to Jman is going to happen again, all of it is going to be in vain.
I'll check back in. ;)

[DarkDragon]

? What does the tileset have to do with the dmaps?
Export the tileset, start a new quest, import the tileset, and the dmap flags should be fixed.

If you're still updating an old quest, then yes, for each new dmap you edit, you'll need to uncheck the flags, but that hardly seems a backbreaking chore.

[Freedom]

It's not a back breaking chore.
When the time comes I'll try the import export thing.
Thanks.

EDIT;
You know what DarkDragon, I sensed you were starting to get a little irritated so I was just going to let that above slide.
But irritated or not here it is.
Importing Exporting has NEVER worked right in Zelda Classic.
In all my years of farting with this I've managed only ONCE to import anything without it corrupting.
YOu yourself posted only yesterday or day before about a graphics pack that wouldn't import for you, and only last week I reported to you that I exported my subscreen and imported right back into the exact same quest and it corrupted.
BUT LOZ inconsistencies are more important than these problems.
So be it.

[DarkDragon]

If you have a specific quest, dmap # range, and flags you want cleared, I could modify a copy of ZQ to programmatically clear the flags for you (like I did for the template) if you'd like.

As for import/export, yes, because of the way it's implemented, it's strewn with landmines (though regarding the subscreen, it's not clear the bug is in export/import, rather than in the subscreen code itself). Just keep reporting the problems (with examples if possible) and hopefully the mines will be defused one by one.

Also, just to be clear, I'm not giving inconsistencies preferentially treatment - I'm fixing bugs roughly from oldest to newest, occasionally sniping page 1 bugs when they look to be easy to fix or critically important.

[Freedom]

Thanks for that offer, but for this one quest, it's just not that important to me.
My reason for bringing it up was because it's taking us down the same old path of a stable version being further and further away.
If the focus is going to be on that, then a stable version just isn't coming any time soon.
That's just not up to you or me, I know you're doing all you can.
It's just the way things are.

[Nicholas Steel]

perhaps hold off on the inconsistencies due to them being bizarre and hard to emulate with an allegro engine?

maybe wait till work on a new engine (rewrite from ground up) is done before implementing anymore inconsistencies?

[Gleeok]

This is getting heavy now...

It's like saying to a group of children "who want's ice cream!" "I do, I do" and then letting them eat untill they are laying on the ground in a pool of their own vomit. Spoiling their appetite.
Whereas eating vegetables every meal would lead to very unhappy children.
But what about the old "no desert untill you've finished your dinner." I'm sure we've all heard that before. But you know what?...It worked didn't it?

[Freedom]

Yea, I know, I'm kinda putting people on the spot for an answer that they can't give me.
The thing is, if I thought a stable release was forthcoming then I'd invest the time to help in any way I can, but if it's going to drag out again, then I have other things I need to be doing.
Too many things like this going on in my life right now, and I'm trying to just get them all resolved.
Like my house, it's been on the market since March, and I'm getting tired of no results, so I told the realtor to just start dropping the price until it sells period.
If I lose $30,000 then screw it, I'll be on the road.
Sometimes I guess you just got to bend over and take it I guess.

[Gleeok]

Yes, I think we are all looking for that stable release in life and in ZC. Kinda hard to accept that one might not come in either. I play video games because they're fun, but when you start playing a game like "Bug quest 2: feature bureaucracy" it's not so fun anymore. I alway's wanted to make a game myself, and untill recently i've just been too busy. I tried in the past with 2.10 or rpg maker, but there wasn't enough to get it how I envisioned it. 2.5 However is a godsend for me. There is just one problem...the bugs. I myself have given in to a few workarounds due to bugs, but then I am unhappy with that, and you shouldn't have to. I have been banging my head against some of them more this week than ever...but I digress.

From what I have read in this topic, and correct me if i'm wrong, we are 100% unanomous on temporarily postponing non-bugs, and new features untill b18. Maybe if you plead the case to DN, he will sympathize with the current situation.

-N

[Nicholas Steel]

well if the inconsistencies waited for the new engine then most likely they can be dealt with much quicker due to a better more flexible code base.

[DarkDragon]

Heh. I'm all for a complete redesign, as quickly as possible, but I'm not holding my breath. 2.50 is a reasonable goal to look towards for now.

[Nicholas Steel]

yes yes, but hold off on the complex stuff till a stable 2.50 is made then do a rewrite from the ground up and work on the complex bugs.

[Dark Nation]

Well, since my names was brought up for an executive decision, here it is: any inconsistencies that have been around this long can wait until 2.6. They are important, but I believe getting a stable version out soon should have priority. Stable means not crashing, not getting you stuck in a quest because of a program bug, and generally doing what you expect it to do (not necessarily what the NES expected it to do). PM believed compatibility to be high on the priority list but I'm sure that given the choice between 100% compatibility and a timely release, he would have chosen the latter.

[Freedom]

^^^ Yee Haw ^^^

I read that to mean...

"yea guys and gals, concentrate on the things that are important and can cause the engine not to be able to be used for it's designed purpose, like building and releasing quests.
This needs to be done fast and a stable release put out, cause this FREEDOM GUY is becoming a pain in the A$$ and we need to shut him the $&^#* up before I track him down and put a bullet in his brain pan."


YES! that will work for me.
;)

[DarkDragon]

Sounds good.

[Gleeok]

Awesome.

...and would you look at that. Freedom is going on a bug-cleanup rampage...

Well he's got the right idea, as it has been not fun to navigate the maze of bug reports lately. I think i'll help out a little too. Maybe others could pitch in to clean it up even more.

[Nicholas Steel]

reviewing quarantined bugs is gonna be a pain tho ;\

[DarkDragon]

It wouldn't be so bad if they'd been taken care of as they were fixed... :rolleyes:

[Freedom]

A couple of those bug reports I moved up earlier this evening were fixed a year ago. :redface:

[Gleeok]

Hmm, I remember a ways back asking if it would be better to confirm them dead right away or wait till the beta release. Then I just forgot. Perhaps it's mainly because no one even goes into the quarentined bug forum. Well I know of a bunch that are definately squashed. I'll start it off I guess. Whee!

[Freedom]

I don't know how they can be marked off until they are tested in the fixed version, it's only then that you know they're dead.
Bad thing is, a lot of times they come back.

[Gleeok]

I don't know how they can be marked off until they are tested in the fixed version, it's only then that you know they're dead.
Bad thing is, a lot of times they come back.

Well it's kinda late now. :p

In any case that was very boring. Bugs suck even after they're fixed.

[Freedom]

Hey Testers,
;)

Here's what I'm trying to do in the open bug thread.
I'm trying to go through the page after pages of reports and clean the trash out.
What I want to do is to narrow it all down to what is actually a problem still in the most resent beta.

Things that I know that have been fixed will be moved to exterminated bugs.

Things that have been fixed but not confirmed fixed will go to quarantined bugs.

Things that were reported in really old betas that no longer apply will probably be moved to exterminated or old beta bugs.

Older bug reports that are setting that still might be a bug I will bump up for a second confirmation, THIS is where I need your help.
IF you reported a bug and I bump it up please let the devs know it still exists and give as much info as possible.
What I would like to see is when DN or DarkDragon or one of the other devs step into a bug thread, that they can see exactly what you mean by the bug and they have enough info there so they have a good idea what is causing it before they ever go to fix it.

This will take a great deal of the pressure off of them, and that's my goal.
I don't want to see anyones bugs get swept under the rug, but they can't fix it if they don't know what's broke, so if you want YOUR bug fixed, please help by giving them the tools to fix it.

If I've moved a thread about your bug, and you feel I've done so in error, tell me and I'll move it back, otherwise your bug might fall through the cracks, that's just the way it is.
If the devs don't know what to do with your report, and I don't know what to do with your report, then how can it ever be fixed?
There are many of these in there right now. ;)

EDIT; for the good news. ;)
The open beta bug reports forum has dropped from 22 pages of threads to 18 in the last 3 days.

[Majora]

Heh... Kind of late, but how about a new Icon for Inconsitency Bug Reports? A Ladybug with the Letters "NES" Next to it, read vertically. Just a thought, to make sorting easier. :D

[gamer07]

Oh and freedom there is/was probly that kept me from beating the first level so I skiped it and got to level 3 but the thing was the room before the boss won't let me hookshot to and the quest is ltt aka link to tor..........just leting you no to see if you beta testers came across that same prob?

[Freedom]

Here's an update guys and gals
The open beta bug report threads are now down to 16 pages.

Just a reminder,

Open Beta Bugs (7 Viewing)
New bugs go here. They stay here until they are fixed, labeled "Not A Bug" or remain unverified for a month.

Take note of the "remain unverified for a month"
Many of these reports have been in there a year!
I'm trying to go through these and bump up what still may be a bug, but to be honest, half the time I don't know what the heck the person is even talking about, so I can't confirm it if I'm not sure what they mean.
YOU need to check and reconfirm YOUR bug still exists IF you don't want it to slip through and be released in the coming "stable release".

If I can't figure out if one of these bugs is still a bug, and I bump it up, and it gets ignored, then the only thing I can do is move it to "bugs from old betas" and hope we don't end up with a buggy stable release.
It's up to you. ;)

[Nicholas Steel]

ill dig through it all for my threads and do whatever is needed to get them sorted out ;)

[Freedom]

That's great news man.
I did some testing on the 190 quests this morning but don't have those Link to the darkness quests, and didn't see them on PureZC, so I had to test with what I have.
I'd hate to see 190 quest problems slip through.

[Nicholas Steel]

yea, im glad i got tho's quests on CD ;) its hard finding the authors website to download them.

if you need them then i can arrange something for you, do you use a instant messenger that supports file transfers? or shall i email them to you?

[Freedom]

Are those Exate/Polygon8's?
If so I have access to them, just can't do it very easy at the moment.
I swapped computers back in April and have them on a hard drive setting in another computer.
I'd just have to set it up again, and with selling my house I'd rather not do that right now.

[Nicholas Steel]

yea polygonx8/exate.

[Gleeok]

Next stop, Exate Land (http://www.freewebs.com/exate/index.html). Remember to keep your arms and legs inside the vehicle untill we come to a complete stop. Thank you for choosing polygon for your ZC transportation needs.

[Freedom]

Here's an update guys and gals
The open beta bug report threads are now down to 14 pages.
11 hours ago it was 16 and two days before that 22 pages.

It's going to start slowing down now though, because most of what has been removed, except of course all the bugs the devs fixed, was all deadwood.
DarkDragon fixed a whole page of bugs himself between last night and today. ;)
Your help is still needed.

Special thanks to franpa and Gleeok today who helped clear out a full page of it. ;)
Give them some good reps, I would but I have to "spread some around" before it will let me do it again.

[Gleeok]

You forgot to mention yourself as well Freedom, so i'll do it for you. ;)

And I was stopping at page 6 or 7 of the bugs forum, but I know there's alot past that point that have been fixed. So is the goal to clean through the entire list, or just the ones from this year?

[Freedom]

In case anyone missed it;

* For technical reasons I had to recode every single list
(or list variant, such as the dropboxes) in ZC and ZQ.
Please report any dialogs that crash.
( DarkDragon, 2007-08-25 12:42:58 )

So far I've opened zquest and on the template quest I've clicked on everything in the place, on the drop down boxes I clicked on the first and last entry.
So far so good. ;)

[Gleeok]

Also a reminder: As of 548 all .map files from earlier builds are corrupted and incompatible with newer builds.


* Map importing/exporting should now work, instead of filling the imported map with random combos, random flags, random csets, and/or crashing ZQ. Old .maps are hopelessly corrupt and cannot be imported. ( DarkDragon, 2007-08-25 14:27:28 )

Just a heads up for you guys that are still using 254 or a another earlier build for quest building. To get this to work with 548 and up your going to have to import the map in an earlier build and save as a quest file, then open it up in a current build and export it that way.

[Nicholas Steel]

woot, 3 little green box thingies under my location in the top right of my posts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gleeok]

Hah, Way to go man. Now don't be stingy! :lol::rofl:

[Freedom]

Got some good help yesterday from erm2003 and Pokegamer1989, give these guys some good reps.

Don't forget to give some good reps to DarkDragon, he's like a one man army.... Orthoman! at killin dem bugs.
Wonder if when he gets a minute if he can come and do my yard......

We're down to 12 pages.
If you have any old reports in there please confirm them either "fixed" or "still a bug"
We don't want any nasties slipping through into our new stable release.
Thanks for all the help guys.

[Freedom]

Please give Rocksfan some good reps as well as the guys above, they've earned it!

We're hovering at 12 pages, please see this thread;
http://www.armageddongames.net/forums/showthread.php?t=99037
If you're in there please follow up on those, if you're not in there, please look back through the threads and update any reports as "fixed" or "still a bug" if you have any.
There are many names I haven't added to the list yet.

[Gleeok]

Hey nice work sofar fella's, nice work indeed. It's basically 11 pages now and already much easier to navigate through them.
Again I too noticed that many of those bugs that remain are from the devs asking for a test, or more info, and then no one ever posting an example or even posting again! Even if it's something like "oops, I figured it out" at least reply such to let them know that it's not a bug in the future. Freedom, I suspect you've got your eye on those already though. ;)

[Freedom]

Hey nice work sofar fella's, nice work indeed. It's basically 11 pages now and already much easier to navigate through them.
Again I too noticed that many of those bugs that remain are from the devs asking for a test, or more info, and then no one ever posting an example or even posting again! Even if it's something like "oops, I figured it out" at least reply such to let them know that it's not a bug in the future. Freedom, I suspect you've got your eye on those already though. ;)

Well.... I can't make them reply.
I was about to go back to working on my quest, seems I'm getting nowhere here now. :shrug:

[Gleeok]

Hell, lets keep bumping that thread and give them a week to reply. Heck, PM all of them if you have to. If no one answers then kill it. Easy as pie. Shit- i'll go through some of those and test them myself if that's what it takes.

The way I see it is, if there's only something like 6 or 7 pages of bugs, there are no cracks to slip through.

[Dark Nation]

What if we ban the users until they reply to you about the bugs? :p

[Freedom]

I've gone through and "tested" a bunch myself, it's very time consuming.
You have to figure out what they are talking about, then try and figure what move they made to trigger the bug, then see if it still happens, and if it doesn't wonder what they did that you didn't to get that bizarre behavior.
As for all those script bugs, I'm lost on those.

[DarkDragon]

Second that plan :D

[Freedom]

What if we ban the users until they reply to you about the bugs? :p


How about placing body parts in a vice. :naughty:

[Dark Nation]

How about placing body parts in a vice. :naughty:
...and then setting the building on fire and handing them a dull hack saw.

[Freedom]

I took Gleeok's suggestion above and PM'ed everyone who is on the list right now, in case they hadn't seen the thread with that information.

Hypercrash;C-Dawg;Shoelace;*b*;Saffith;Dlbrooks33
Dart Zaidyer;beefster09;Tygore;billyronald;majoras_wrat h


Edit,
Please give majoras_wrath some good reps guys and gals for his efforts in the beta bug forums. ;)

[ShadowMancer]

As for all those script bugs, I'm lost on those. I will try to confirm any script bugs I see since noone else seems to be doing much of it (I know only a few ppl around here really understand scripting, I happen to have years of practice putzing with different langs as a hobbie, not really any serious programming) I do however wish someone would confirm the couple of possible script bugs I have reported, I assume if noone responds to a report after a week or so I should bump it (i have hesitated to do that so far) Keep up the good work Freedom and everyone else who is confirming bugs (and not to metion the Devs who are actually FIXING the bugs) :)

[Freedom]

What I've been trying to do is get the bug reports down to the 30 day limit in that forum, many were over a year old when I started.
So that would mean having some kind of confirmation on anything in there that is over 30 days old, which would then bring it's date into range or remove it to "exterminated" or "quarantined" or leaving it there if it's still a bug.

Headway is being made, the forum is down to 11 pages of threads now, and that includes the many new reports that have been added in the last few days.

Good point ShadowMancer, Don't forget to give the Developers some good reps too, it's often too easy to overlook the ones who are actually doing the work. ;)

[Freedom]

Here's an Update

The open beta bug report forum is now down to 10 pages.
99% of those bugs have now been fixed and moved to Quarantined bugs.
So like Johnny said; "The people in the cheaper seats, clap your hands, the rest of you just rattle your jewelry."

Please don't forget to check off your bugs that are now in quarantined bugs waiting for your confirmation that they are indeed fixed in the latest beta, please mark them "confirmed fixed" and I will try to move them into exterminated bugs.
We wouldn't want any nasties slipping through the cracks.

[Freedom]

Update;
9 pages, nuff said. ;)

[Freedom]

Update....



3 pages

Givin' me a semi.

[ShadowMancer]

Woot! only 3 pages left :)
alright now how about the quarintened bugs, it is my understanding that we need to confirm sick bugs before they are considered dead. (I've been re-testing quarintened bugs i reported, and giveing a 'confirmend fixed')

Stable 2.5 is close.. I can smell it :p

[Nicholas Steel]

i'll give everyone positive karma once the stable build is out, that way ill have like 8 or more people to give it to thus i could every day give some to everyone in that list without getting the "share it around" message :D and everyone will have massive amount of green under there names xD.

that is unless i've misunderstood how the karma system works.
-----

freedom, is it down to 3 pages because you removed all the ancient posts that noone has replied to in over 6 months or something?

[Freedom]

i'll give everyone positive karma once the stable build is out, that way ill have like 8 or more people to give it to thus i could every day give some to everyone in that list without getting the "share it around" message :D and everyone will have massive amount of green under there names xD.

that is unless i've misunderstood how the karma system works.
-----

freedom, is it down to 3 pages because you removed all the ancient posts that noone has replied to in over 6 months or something?

It was down to 9 and DarkDragon scrubbed the rest of the deadwood.
Today is a new day. ;)

[Gleeok]

Aaaaahhhhhh!! 4 pages now. They're still multiplying!!! There's no stopping them, everyone run for your lives!

*presses the self-destruct button*




:p

[Freedom]

Fresh bugs taste better. ;)

[Nicholas Steel]

i've reached the max positive karma i can spread for the current 24 hours >.>

keep up the good work people! and send positive karma back to me please :)

[SpykStorm]

It seems you all are at war with the bugs. So I'll see if I can help.:)

[Gleeok]

It seems you all are at war with the bugs. So I'll see if I can help.:)

It's not a war, it's a massacre. By my count;

Gleeok: 60

Bugs: 12,467

It's not even close.:(

Although the newer build are getting pretty stable. So minus that annoying ffc paste thing in 584, I havn't run into too many problems. That's probably why i've actually made some decent progress on my quest lately, which makes gleeok :). It seems the tables have turned bugs, Mwahahah!